Warhammer 40k

[Imperial Citizen]

So a little odd, but how "real" are Space Marines within the setting? Are they, like, established fact and outright acknowledged to exist by common people, or are they a mythical legend that only high ranking Imperial Guard know to be actually true?

My knowledge of the setting is a bit all over the place, so I've been subject to a mix of "they're just human propaganda" and "we must immediately drop to our knees and revere them the second they come up in conversation". I understand that not even the existence of Chaos is treated as a fact.

I believe that the average Imperial is aware of the Space Marines. They are blessed angels of death, embodiment of the God-Emperor’s wrath, and so on.

Chaos is known but simply as an obscure boogeyman. Something has to represent evil to contrast with the holiness of the Emperor. Failing to follow your orders, suggest better working conditions, reading prohibited texts, would be viewed as heretical, which leads to bad things happening to you. That’s probably as close as the average Imperial knows about Chaos.

The actual truth, as in the existence of heretical cults and even traitor forces are only known to the higher echelons of the Imperium (military leaders, planetary governors, high-ranking officials). Then the real truth, the knowledge of chaos daemons and their gods are known only to those with the strongest wills (Inquisition, Grey Knights, etc).

 

[Meat Target]

So a little odd, but how "real" are Space Marines within the setting? Are they, like, established fact and outright acknowledged to exist by common people, or are they a mythical legend that only high ranking Imperial Guard know to be actually true?

My knowledge of the setting is a bit all over the place, so I've been subject to a mix of "they're just human propaganda" and "we must immediately drop to our knees and revere them the second they come up in conversation". I understand that not even the existence of Chaos is treated as a fact.

Like many other things in the setting, it's subjective, due to the vastness of the Imperium.

Your average peasant working in a Hive City factory or a Feudal World farm has been raised in the Imperial Cult, and thus believes in the existence of Astartes despite never seeing one in person, like a Christian believing in angels.

On the other hand, there are planets like Krieg who doubt even the existence of the Imperium, having not been contacted by any of its agents for generations, and try to strike out on their own.

 

[NerdShamer]

So a little odd, but how "real" are Space Marines within the setting? Are they, like, established fact and outright acknowledged to exist by common people, or are they a mythical legend that only high ranking Imperial Guard know to be actually true?

My knowledge of the setting is a bit all over the place, so I've been subject to a mix of "they're just human propaganda" and "we must immediately drop to our knees and revere them the second they come up in conversation". I understand that not even the existence of Chaos is treated as a fact.

It depends on which planet you're talking about, honestly. Because outside of their Chapter's fiefdoms (but even then, this is an coin toss) they're more or less an myth to the average guardsman. Although, from what I've read if they managed to see one, their unit is too mauled to do anything useful.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Happy 1000 pages, may we reach 39 more anniversaries.

And yes, for the general population outside of the inquisition, grey knights, and space marines, chaos is basically treated as a secret(the ciaphas cain novels and some others kinda go over this) with military and civilians getting a wake up call regarding the existence of chaos from time to time. There's also been lore over the years of grey knights and space wolves getting into fights because the space wolves didn't want to purge a population just because they were vaguely aware now that chaos existed as the grey knights helped them clean it up(and of course they wanted to mind wipe the space wolves, and they definitely weren't having that).

I think that if you are high enough (commissar or commander) you get the debriefing that chaos is a force rather than nebulous traitors with magical rituals.

Also my headcanon for the GK and Space Wolves mind wipe was that the Space Wolves might accidentally came to know secret information about the GK that puts them at risk.

 

[p1138]

I think that if you are high enough (commissar or commander) you get the debriefing that chaos is a force rather than nebulous traitors with magical rituals.

Depends. Cain was a commissar who knew about chaos, but wasn't always supposed to know about chaos and that was mostly due to working with an inquisitor(the necrons were also a big secret at one point) Obviously the higher ups with any length of service will encounter them at some point, but when you've got groups like the grey knights who will insist that everyone exposed to chaos in any way needs to be mind wiped or purged, there's no consistency. And of course the naval command officers who have to work with navigators know, because the navigators and astra telepathica are a whole other group of imperium citizens who knows things that most don't.

Also my headcanon for the GK and Space Wolves mind wipe was that the Space Wolves might accidentally came to know secret information about the GK that puts them at risk.

Unfortunately the truth is that it's retarded writing. Since everyone familiar with the space wolves knows about their psykers and the chapter's 10,000 year beef with the thousand sons(nevermind the invasion by the thousand sons), and on and on. This is the same retarded writing that at one point had grey knights slaughtering sisters of battle to bathe in their blood to try and help ward them against demons... yeah don't try and put much thought into that, the writers definitely didn't and it's a prime example of grimderp.

The inconsistency in knowledge about the enemies of the imperium is interesting at times(when the writers aren't retarded), and allows shit like tau having an easier time influencing planets, rogue traders getting up to shenanigans, etc.

 

[Snekposter]

allows shit like tau having an easier time influencing planets

Its pretty fucking easy for the Tau to influence planets. They can have some gue'la show up with some fancy goods none of the locals have ever seen before, and then slowly the Greater Good gets discussed once the locals are hooked, and then the Tau themselves show up a little while on and everyone just shrugs since the IoM may have just been a vague concept to the locals, and as long as the new leaders don't upset the apple cart (and the Tau generally don't, even going so far as to allow worship of the Emperor as long as the locals don't decide to start rebelling against their xenos overlords), the fact Tau gizmos have lead to a measurable increase in quality of life is enough to win the people over.

Like shit, imagine you're a farmer on a world that's around the 1940's in terms of tech and these oddly friendly and strangely dressed humans from somewhere off-world offer you a bunch of weird flying things that promise to boost your yields by a couple hundred percent. Are you really going to say no? What if you're a doctor and they have a bunch of kickass diagnostics equipment that can detect cancer while its still in its earliest stages?

 

[demicolon]

I was more peeved at orks being they/them for Yarrick or whatnot.

UK soccer hooligans of opposing teams going woahwoahwoah in the middle of a brawl 'cause one thug called other thug the wrong pronoun sounds like a Monty Python skit.

 

[Snekposter]

UK soccer hooligans of opposing teams going woahwoahwoah in the middle of a brawl 'cause one thug called other thug the wrong pronoun sounds like a Monty Python skit.

"Oi, come on m8, I know them's a blooming fag and a Manchester fan on top of that but that's no reason to disrespect them's pronouns."

 

[Judge Dredd]

Congrats on the 1000 pages.

I think it was Iron Within?

I gave the clips on YouTube a watch. I like their interpretation of Chaos marines as more subtle. With the only obvious difference being tusks on the terminator armour, something that's well within reason for a regular chapter give the extreme styles of Space Wolves or Damned. Almost makes me want to collect a traitor legion. Since the look and behaviour always put me off.


Was watching Age of Sigmar stuff, and I think I really like the lore of Stormcasts. From what I gather from the internet they're the basic bitch option that everybody hates. Avatars of justitice that respawn again and again, losing their humanity each time? Yes please.

 

[p1138]

I gave the clips on YouTube a watch. I like their interpretation of Chaos marines as more subtle. With the only obvious difference being tusks on the terminator armour, something that's well within reason for a regular chapter give the extreme styles of Space Wolves or Damned. Almost makes me want to collect a traitor legion. Since the look and behaviour always put me off.

It's probably a reason(of many) why iron warriors have a bit of popularity, they just don't look ridiculous for the sake of looking ridiculous. Even Black Legion is a bit too "chaos" at times due to being a mix of members from various legions, and the iconography being over the top. If IW isn't bringing along demon engines and cultists... they for the most part fit the vague descriptions of what a space marine is for people who haven't actually dealt with them. It would be silly for them to do all of the time, but it's just a small example of using the vagueness of things to do something interesting.

edit: And yeah, we hit 1000 pages without it being about something fucking retarded. Nice.

 

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1000 pages

How long till they pull the ripcord and take the Emperor off the golden throne?

Since it's canonical that it's failing in the next 30 to 300 years (BL Custodes books, Vaults of Terra specifically) and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it, well, 11th edition? 12th?

What starting edition will come with an empty golden throne on the cover and in the box as terrain?

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

Its pretty fucking easy for the Tau to influence planets. They can have some gue'la show up with some fancy goods none of the locals have ever seen before, and then slowly the Greater Good gets discussed once the locals are hooked, and then the Tau themselves show up a little while on and everyone just shrugs since the IoM may have just been a vague concept to the locals, and as long as the new leaders don't upset the apple cart (and the Tau generally don't, even going so far as to allow worship of the Emperor as long as the locals don't decide to start rebelling against their xenos overlords), the fact Tau gizmos have lead to a measurable increase in quality of life is enough to win the people over.

Like shit, imagine you're a farmer on a world that's around the 1940's in terms of tech and these oddly friendly and strangely dressed humans from somewhere off-world offer you a bunch of weird flying things that promise to boost your yields by a couple hundred percent. Are you really going to say no? What if you're a doctor and they have a bunch of kickass diagnostics equipment that can detect cancer while its still in its earliest stages?

I wish we had more T'au lore. Feels like most of what we get is from the Imperium's view. The only other stories we get are about Farisight and Shadowsun. Not that I disliked those books but I wish we could see more of the wider T'au Empire. Broken Sword is a good novella about what really makes humanity turn to the T'au. They will make Imperials integrate, but T'au are patient. You might never fully accept The Greater Good, or integrate into their society. Your children might. Their children will. At first it really wont be a choice. It's join us or die. That doesn't mean you have to mistreat the subjugated. The Imperium doesn't need you. They have enough manpower and guns that dissent can always be put down with force. The T'au have neither the men nor the power to use fear and violence to maintain control. They can't be playing whack-a-mole putting down rebellions on every planet. They need the planets they conquer to be self sufficient and loyal. They need as many allies as they can possibly get.

I actually prefer when T'au is just the good guys of the galaxy instead of trying to make them Grimderp. They remind you why the rest of the galaxy is so hostile and horrible. The T'au try to be as genuinely good as they can and what does that get you? A small insignificant empire that would've been lost to history if even one of the other factions would even bother to notice you exist. But it's endearing to see them not willing to forgo their morals, good or bad, just to gain power. We're either going to do this right, or we're not doing it at all.

 

[Verpa Teutonica Ingens]

How long till they pull the ripcord and take the Emperor off the golden throne?

I don't know, but I do know that when they do, not much else will actually change. If it takes as long as 13th or 14th edition, then I suspect that the Imperium will be portrayed as finding a way to keep the Astronomican lit using "belief in progress and rationality", and the Emperor's soul will just dissipate in the Warp. (jk... unless?)

I actually prefer when T'au is just the good guys of the galaxy instead of trying to make them Grimderp. They remind you why the rest of the galaxy is so hostile and horrible. The T'au try to be as genuinely good as they can and what does that get you? A small insignificant empire that would've been lost to history if even one of the other factions would even bother to notice you exist. But it's endearing to see them not willing to forgo their morals, good or bad, just to gain power. We're either going to do this right, or we're not doing it at all.

Agreed, except for the endearing part. I'd prefer for the Tau to be grimderp in that exact way: they try so hard to be kind and tolerant, only for the consequences of holding those high-minded virtues to come crashing down on them and filling me with sublime schadenfreude.

 

[Judge Dredd]

It's probably a reason(of many) why iron warriors have a bit of popularity

I know nothing about them other than memes about them being "the emperors grumpy boys". I assume they're the traitor version of Iron Hands.

Not to get into custom lore autism, I wonder if a "traitor legion" would work using standard marine models. Obviously demons and vehicles like defilers would mark them as evil if running a chaos list, but I'm talking running traitors who aren't chaos, but aren't imperial either.

I actually prefer when T'au is just the good guys of the galaxy instead of trying to make them Grimderp. They remind you why the rest of the galaxy is so hostile and horrible. The T'au try to be as genuinely good as they can and what does that get you?

As a returning "player", I don't know what they did to Tau lore, but the fact they don't have imperial auxiliaries any more is baffling and robs the Tau of one of the things that makes them unique. A xenos race that can have allies of almost any faction. I thought at the time this was a smart move of introduce new model lines slowly. That Kroot could eventually be their own army, then they could start growing Vespid into their own thing. It seems like this never happened, but it should have. It would give dablers a great way to collect, since you could buy a few units of whatever race, and use them as auxiliaries until you have enough for an army.

How long till they pull the ripcord and take the Emperor off the golden throne?

I don't know, but I do know that when they do, not much else will actually change.

Beat me to it. I vaguely remember (I think it was 8th) when a primarch (Guilliman according to google) woke up, and was pissed at what the Imperium had become during his 10,000 year nap. After nearly 2 decades of the status quo, 40k lore, and the game itself, was about to shift in a major way. I come back now and nothing has changed. I'm guessing he created the Primaris marines?

As for a change that will impact the setting. I'd imagine they'd pull an End Times, nuke the setting and replace it. But given 40k prints money, I don't see them doing that. If they did, it would be to immediately reboot it.

 

[p1138]

I know nothing about them other than memes about them being "the emperors grumpy boys". I assume they're the traitor version of Iron Hands.

Not to get into custom lore autism, I wonder if a "traitor legion" would work using standard marine models. Obviously demons and vehicles like defilers would mark them as evil if running a chaos list, but I'm talking running traitors who aren't chaos, but aren't imperial either.

You could just avoid running the demon engines and stuff. People do it with alpha legion armies, and for iron warriors you just run regular vehicles. What you're talking about specifically wouldn't be a traitor legion so much as a war band that turned traitor and those certainly exist as well without at least starting out as a chaos thing but usually eventually get pretty chaos-y over time. That's kinda how the badab war worked originally at least.

Also going to keep it short, but Iron Warriors(siege warfare) are the traitor counterpart to the Imperial Fists(fortification), with Perturabo being an autist who repeatedly got the shit end of the stick and eventually just got fed up with everything on the planet he grew up on, then the imperium, then Horus, and so on.

 

[NerdShamer]

How long till they pull the ripcord and take the Emperor off the golden throne?

Since it's canonical that it's failing in the next 30 to 300 years (BL Custodes books, Vaults of Terra specifically) and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it, well, 11th edition? 12th?

At the rate shit is going, probably 14th edition or later.

 

[p1138]

At the rate shit is going, probably 14th edition or later.

Probably never. It was a plot point for a couple of books. The 13th black crusade was a big narrative campaign from GW back in third edition that took them how many years to "resolve"?

 

[Spilled Spaghett]

As a returning "player", I don't know what they did to Tau lore, but the fact they don't have imperial auxiliaries any more is baffling and robs the Tau of one of the things that makes them unique. A xenos race that can have allies of any faction. I thought at the time this was a smart move of introduce new model lines slowly. That Kroot could eventually be their own army, then they could start growing Vespid into their own thing. It seems like this never happened, but it should have. It would give dablers a great way to collect, since you could buy a few units of whatever race, and use them as auxiliaries until you have enough for an army.

The recent T'au Codex expanded on Kroot units and gave them their own detachment, but it's still a far cry from real support. Kroot are still tissue paper, and don't have enough AP to deal with any kind of heavier armor. The T'au units still don't like to play nice with Kroot since Kroot can't interact with T'au in any way other than both existing on the same team. Despite having one of the smallest rosters in the game they made the baffling decision to remove more datasheets. Aun'va, and Longstrike are the worst offenders imo. They still wont move on and write a new Grand Ethereal into the lore and give him a cool ass model. The Vespids only just got a model update because of Kill Team, and we had to wait until their release for GW to fix their data sheet.

The T'au are such a blank slate faction it's amazing that it isn't filled with one-off alien designs the team thought would be cool, but couldn't make fit into any other faction. Where are the Nicassar or the Charpactin? I want some psychic space bears in my army. Why no water caste diplomats as cheap character models that fuck with enemy morale? Why don't we have an Earth Caste engineer even if it was just a copy of a techmarine? We don't even get cool Crisis Suit variants. I know the real answer is because they need to use the machines to make Space Marines instead, but by now I would've expected them to at least have a catalogue of discontinued models for alien species they made but stopped supporting over the years. They don't even try.

 

[daniel day]

>traitor legions that aren't chaos, and aren't imperium
What you're looking for is the Red Corsairs, and more specifically renegade astartes. They exist, but god damn GW really, really doesn't want them to. Also see: The Badab War

>when are they pulling emps off the golden throne
realistically the year never changes, and the setting is stuck in a perpetual timeline of "stuffs happening, but time isn't progressing". Especially now that HH's main story is wrapped up I cant wait until they get to the great crusade era and fuck up thunder warriors that never get models we get some sweeeeet lore and get tons of new 30k models!

 

[Sargon's wife's son]

This might not be the correct place to ask, but it’s WH40K related, I have no interest(I am too poor to have a 1000 point army) and find myself liking the books and lore more so, is there a place to get copies of the primary novels/Horus Heresey novels that won’t wipe out my bank account?

Have you tried The Pirate Bay audiobook Bay is also good it has most of the books but that's a problem if you don't like audio books