Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[Dick Johnson]

Disappointing. I was really hoping that Mal would end up spreading her wings and flying - not because I think she deserves it, but because it would be funny to watch Joe's reaction. Oh well. It's not a lock that Women's Hotel will sink with few ripples but it's definitely looking more likely after @Wonderland foster child 's writeup and excerpts.

Looking at Goodreads it's up to 200 ratings and 75 reviews. It's also down to a 3.20 overall score. The people who like it, like it for the prose. Even with the spotlight in this thread shined on some fairly egregious examples of wordsmithing, there were still pieces that had a bit of sparkle. Even the people who gave it five stars admitted that there really wasn't much else to the book, and if you're not as in love with Mal's voice as she is then the lack of plot and thin characterization isn't going to keep you invested.

The pity is that there seem like there are real characters in there, that are never really given a chance to open up for the reader to understand what made them they way they are and what they make of their lives. As much as I enjoy the sentence "Whatever else might be said about her, she never again pushed anyone else out a window, and she never stole another cat", Ruth seems like she needed to be explored. She's a long-term resident of a place intended to be a temporary stop on life's journey, she's someone who never figured out how to be around and with people though she desperately wants to form connections. She's a weird hoarder and apparently a cat kidnapper. That's a solid foundation for in interesting character!

This book seems like it would have been so much better if Mal had delved into what makes these people tick and how those idiosyncratic and occasionally self-destructive drives manifest in their interactions with one another and the world at large. But it comes off, at least from the writeups in this thread, that it's mostly about strained politesse. Also, fewer words. Mallory needs to stop reading things Joe writes, or stop getting his notes on her drafts or whatever it is that she's been doing these past years that made her writing more like his. No one who has ever put pen to paper would improve their craft by trying to incorporate lessons from Joe's prose. I'm not saying she needs to be terse, but she's moved way too far into 'deliberately bloated' as a writing style.

Pity.

 

[Potatis Salad]

"What on earth," says our favorite warrior against ~transmisogyny~ who regularly scoffs at the concept of norms of free speech. Instagram censoring the word "tranny" is exactly what you wanted, retard.


Joe hears, "Latinos have a lot of kids," goes straight to "breeding kink." I wonder if he considers his infant child to be the ultimate expression of his own "breeding kink"? Hot.

 

[Coo Coo Bird]

In truth, Dolly was more mannish than gentlemanly, because men are sometimes called gentlemanly, but never mannish, and a man cannot be mannish any more than a woman can be effeminate. In Pauline’s gentlemanliness, many men saw something of themselves that they already liked, profusely and distinctively arranged in a face and figure that were beautifully feminine. If she had been a few inches shorter, or skinny rather than vigorous, she might have been called gamine; as it was, she wasn’t. Pauline, who was already a success as a woman, had some of the better elements of maleness layered on top—it struck most people almost as an indicator of prosperity and good health. A generation earlier this sort of strapping androgyny had been a recognizable, even sometimes a very popular, type. Garbo and Hepburn and Dietrich were certainly the most well-known and recognizable members of this type, but it was not just a famous few, either: turn through your mother or grandmother’s old issues of Harper’s or Vogue and you will see page after page of woolen and flannel suits with broad lapels and broader shoulders, trousers of stout fabric with deep cuffs and straight-cut pockets, and a dozen snub-nosed models dressed like sailors, clubmen, and English schoolboys. Ask your mother and your grandmother to show you some of their old photo albums, and see how many of them you can spot. For a certain period — perhaps ten years after adolescence, perhaps fifteen — the world beams on girls like this. They are almost invariably and startlingly active, like schools of minnows; they sail and play tennis from sunup to sundown without flagging, if they live in the city; they tramp across country with Girl Guides; and they whittle and ride horses if they live in the country. (But they must always have money.) In later years they become either handsome matrons in long tweeds, or they retire gracefully, vanishing entirely into a sea of unremarkable-looking womanhood.

Sometimes authors digressing off-topic can be charming. This really isn't, this is more like Mal bragging about getting an A+ on her book report and insisting that you have to hear her read excerpts from it.

a basic problem with the hotel book is that her inspiration is 100% British (Dodie Smith as I’ve previously mentioned, Muriel Sparks, Mollie Panter-Downes, Margaret Kennedy, Stella Gibbons) but she decided to set the book in NYC for some reason. this probably won’t matter to her audience because they are niggercattle but I, an intellectual, am annoyed by the anageographism.

You know, a lot of the thread is dedicated to poking fun at how desperately Mallory wants to be a transgressive bohemian, and also a transman mommy blogger. But we've never really delved into how obsessed she is with England despite never living there, and how she's so fixated on twee British literature she doesn't seem to understand her own country and cities she has actually lived in.

 

[IglyUglyOh]

But we've never really delved into how obsessed she is with England despite never living there, and how she's so fixated on twee British literature she doesn't seem to understand her own country and cities she has actually lived in.

Mall strikes me as someone who doesn’t get that wherever you go, there you are. San Francisco, NYC, Michigan: she’s always going to be kind of unhappy with herself and she would be in England, too. It’s the same reason she transitioned, ultimately she can’t cope with her reality.

I’m really glad she got a book deal and that it’s selling decently. Most people who blow their lives up in their 30s don’t recover so nicely.

 

[AMHOLIO]

But we've never really delved into how obsessed she is with England despite never living there, and how she's so fixated on twee British literature she doesn't seem to understand her own country and cities she has actually lived in.

I'm betting Joe won't take her there either. It's too expensive, he doesn't care about pleasing her, and likely does not want to go back himself. I don't know why he hasn't gotten American citizenship, it might have been too unsexy to formalize himself and wants to wallow in woe is me politics without voting. And he's lazy.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

I'm starting to think you guys don't understand how novels work. There are events that happen and then it ends. It's just like movies. You read them to see the events happen, then it ends, and then you get excited for next one in which events happen before it ends. They're all interchangeable except for the setting and the skin colors/gender identity/sexuality/etc. of the characters. That's how we escape from the boring, uninspiring, non-diverse, non-wholesome reality we're forced to exist in. I'm glad Mal brought us this escapist literature and hope she can only bring us more events set in Women's Automats.

 

[Anasa Tristis]

It makes me feel like she's farted right in my face saying teeheehee have you heard of pg wodehouse? Have you smelt that?

I'm not well versed in the deep history of the BPT (and too lazy to go back and read the hundreds of pages that preceded my jumping in) so my armchair psych evaluation of Mal may be off. But I get strong whiffs of passive aggressiveness, vanity and snobbery from Mal. She's slyly obnoxious. Manipulative. She's subtle and clever about it, and does it in ambiguous ways. But once you start looking for it, you see it more and more. It definitely surfaces in her arrogant, "I'm 100x more educated and smarter than you" writing style.

I keep thinking about that whole "I want to be humbled by success" line. She won't say "I want to be successful, and rub it in your stupid, shit eating grins until you choke on it!" No way. That's out of character. Her carefully crafted Daniel Lavery character. The cute and quirky trans man that everyone knows and loves is self effacing, unselfconscious, pure and generous of heart! Such base pettiness such as wanting success would never enter her simple and wholesome head. Daniel Lavery timidly declares that she wants the humilty that comes from success. Not success itself! Which is of course, the nobler desire.

But don't be fooled. She wants that success. And the power that comes with it. And she's got a method to get it.

She and Joe are two rotten peas in a pod. Arrogant, vain, self proclaimed (and made) "iconoclasts". Workin' the system the ways they know best. Mal is just the yin to Joe's yang.

 

[mold]

But we've never really delved into how obsessed she is with England despite never living there, and how she's so fixated on twee British literature she doesn't seem to understand her own country and cities she has actually lived in.

it's not unusual for any English speaker to be more familiar with British literature than anything else, there's just a lot more of it and I personally prefer it. In the US you are what you make yourself so why are you writing? You're probably a weird loser if you're writing. In the UK you're probably writing because you're oppressed by the class system. Also they're better educated than we are.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

But don't be fooled. She wants that success. And the power that comes with it. And she's got a method to get it.

I read it a lament that things are on the decline and she pissed away all the benefits of a decade plus of an unusual level of professional success for a writer, so if she just gets one more bite at the apple she definitely not fuck it all up this time.

When you consider the level of success Mallory enjoyed, BFWU’s (best friend while useful) millionaire husband funding their vanity magazine, best selling satire book, advice job at slate, strong arming Substack with transphobia to give her and Joe a absurd advance given their audience value, etc.. all that has resulted in Mallory living in the attic of the small home of her husband’s girlfriend. I’m sure Mallory tells herself all the time if another pile of money, or best seller lands, in her lap she won’t be so stupid with the success.

I think her luck has run out. Far more talented writers haven’t enjoyed a third of the success Mallory has managed to have.

 

[AfghanBlue]

When you consider the level of success Mallory enjoyed, BFWU’s (best friend while useful) millionaire husband funding their vanity magazine, best selling satire book, advice job at slate, strong arming Substack with transphobia to give her and Joe a absurd advance given their audience value, etc.. all that has resulted in Mallory living in the attic of the small home of her husband’s girlfriend. I’m sure Mallory tells herself all the time if another pile of money, or best seller lands, in her lap she won’t be so stupid with the success.

I think her luck has run out. Far more talented writers haven’t enjoyed a third of the success Mallory has managed to have.

If any woo thing is True Not Woo, it is the notion of karma.
It is remarkably swift, often. It is always pointed. It strikes with brutality til it noticed, accepted, and bowed to with the type of genuine humility that some people, possibly Mal, are constitutionally incapable of..?

 

[Dr. Butt]

If any woo thing is True Not Woo, it is the notion of karma.
It is remarkably swift, often. It is always pointed. It strikes with brutality til it noticed, accepted, and bowed to

Yeah, that's why all those deathfats and catfuckers stay alive, housed, and out of jail for their absurdly long lives.

 

[AMHOLIO]

it's not unusual for any English speaker to be more familiar with British literature than anything else, there's just a lot more of it and I personally prefer it. In the US you are what you make yourself so why are you writing? You're probably a weird loser if you're writing. In the UK you're probably writing because you're oppressed by the class system. Also they're better educated than we are.

The United States has a bigger population that the UK and has been churning out a ton of lit within that time. For classic literature, it is more British dominate because they were around longer and established more classics in that time. There's still a lot of authors who fall into literary canon who are American. The reason Mal is more familiar with English literature is because she's a teaboo who fetishizes the past.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

I just hope the TERFs at Berkeley don't take these elections results as encouragement to further harass Joe. You wouldn't want him releasing those receipts!!!

 

[Potatis Salad]

An irresistible take on mole from the most innovative chef working today!

Spoiler: text

Today, mole. Dry roasted some tomatoes, onions, and garlic, rehydrated some ancho and pasilla, blended them together, and then loosened the mole with a kombucha I made a couple of weeks ago from cocoa and coffee grounds. Mocha mole, I guess. I made a (too) mild salsa by dry roasting onions, garlic, and tomato. and blitzing with lime juice, jalapeño and (after setting some aside for Danny) cilantro and a pepper mix. Some preserved pineapple, salted and stuffed with ancho, coriander seeds, and cumin a few months ago, was the spiciest thing on the table. Fridge-pickled onions, cilantro, lime, rice, flour tortillas, and a marrow bone for the baby (who enjoys gnawing on ox bones). Fuck fascism. Free Palestine. Abolish prisons. Love to all who seek love, justice for all those who uphold justice.

Mole is a famously rich and complex sauce, traditionally served over meat, from Mexico. There are a million variations, but here’s a good example of a typical list of ingredients, translated from Spanish, from a Mexican cooking website.

• 1½ cups lard
• 250 g of clean mulato chili
• 125 g of clean pasilla chili
• 125 g of cleaned ancho chili
• 4 Ɩ of chicken broth
• 1 cup unpeeled almonds (150 g)
• 2 tablespoons of peeled and roasted peanuts (25 g)
• ½ cup whole, peeled pecans (50 g)
• ¼ cup peeled pumpkin seeds
• 2 tablespoons of sesame seeds (25 g)
• 3 cups chicken broth
• ½ kg of chopped green tomatoes
• ½ kg of chopped tomatoes
• 1 ripe plantain, sliced and fried
• ⅔ cup raisins
• 4 cups chicken broth
• 5 roasted cloves
• 1 teaspoon whole black peppercorns
• 5 red peppers
• 1 teaspoon whole cumin
• ½ teaspoon whole anise
• 1 cinnamon stick 10 cm long, broken
• ½ teaspoon dried thyme (leaves only)
• 1 tablespoon dried oregano (leaves only)
• 12 large garlic cloves, roasted with their skin on and then peeled
• 1 white onion, quartered, roasted and coarsely chopped
• 2 cups chicken broth
• 1 tablespoon salt
• 1 bolillo sliced and fried in lard or corn oil
• 3 corn tortillas cut into pieces and fried in lard or corn oil
• 2 cups chicken broth
• 3 bars of chocolate with sugar, 90 g each
• 1 cup brown sugar

Ay ay ay, mucho trabajo! Thankfully, our busy working mom Joe has figured out how to simplify the process! All you REALLY need to make mole is:

• Tomatoes
• Onions
• Garlic
• Ancho and pasilla chiles
• Kombucha

C’est bon!

Just like his “””steak au poivre””” adventure, the meat that he dunks into this kombucha’n’vegetable soup is an afterthought, he doesn’t even mention it. He lets the presentation speaks for itself:


We also get some tortillas wrapped in a triple layer of sodden paper towels, a few salsas whose ingredients are identical to the mole (Joe-le), and some quick pickled onions.


Quick pickled onions are a great topping for tacos or cochinita pibil or beans and rice or pretty much any culinary contribution from our Latinx friends. Just cut up a red onion and soak it in a solution of vinegar, sugar, and spices for a while. It looks like this:

Whereas Joe’s look like this:

I’ll admit his knife skills appear to be improving, but that’s still a centimeter-thick ring of raw red onion floating in dingy…what even is that liquid? I think he decides to “quick pickle” at the very last possible second and ends up serving dishwater-dunked raw onions. You will not convince me that that murky liquid does anything to improve on simply serving the onions raw.

I was genuinely pleased to not see election whining on this asshole’s Instagram and was gonna give him credit for it, but no. Hope you saved room for dessert, because Joe finishes his delicious dish with a final flourish:

Fuck fascism. Free Palestine. Abolish prisons. Love to all who seek love, justice for all those who uphold justice.

Quite.

Side note about election whining, this is from Lily’s Instagram story.

She and Mallory have posted about this Huwaida Arraf person before and I haven’t bothered to care, but something about the obnoxious “eXpLaiN tHiS, dEmS!” told me there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for why this person was not on the ballot, and indeed there was. There were two open seats. The Democratic Party nominated two candidates so as not to split the vote among three nominees on the ballot. Arraf didn’t get enough votes to earn a nomination. People wanted her to be nominated anyway because, um, Palestine? Free Palestine!

 

[Bookwork]

Joe referring to Rocco: "i am totally gonna give him a bit of mole"


Giving himself and the two women in the household food poisoning wasn't satisfying enough.

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

What is up with all the lolcows using swaddles long after they stop being safe to use? That is a baby who can roll over. Swaddles are no longer a safe option. But reading books about boring shit to keep your baby safe isn't nearly esoteric enough for "Grace."

For the disagree-er:

 

[Paul Enwerdhoeven]

I noticed Mallory has a million tweets about Conclave and none about the election. I wonder if she voted for Jill Stein because of Palestine.

Joe's election takes are pretty much what you'd expect

 

[Trianon]

Has Joe self-deported yet?

 

[Dromedary]

Has Joe self-deported yet?

Well, he's flounced TwitterX. He'll be back, his life is too boring to stay away.

 

[AirdropShitposts]

Side note about election whining, this is from Lily’s Instagram story.

She and Mallory have posted about this Huwaida Arraf person before and I haven’t bothered to care, but something about the obnoxious “eXpLaiN tHiS, dEmS!” told me there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for why this person was not on the ballot, and indeed there was. There were two open seats. The Democratic Party nominated two candidates so as not to split the vote among three nominees on the ballot. Arraf didn’t get enough votes to earn a nomination. People wanted her to be nominated anyway because, um, Palestine? Free Palestine!

PhD and whatever it is Mal is openly explaining how they don't understand how the simple primary process works.

Another mistake: You were supposed to vote for two, she only did the write-in.

Spoiler: edit: oops, this is just Ingham County where MSU is

Less than a thousand people wrote her in: