Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Hatter]

It's honestly quite a beautiful and fascinating culture. They are able to express such depth, feeling and understanding with just "cyka" and "blyat". Why waste more words like some bitch faggot Westoid, and just xaxaxa run over one's comrade and ACK into a mine like a true savior of Europe?

Highlight screenshots (of the 22nd Central Tank Storage Base inventory numbers) from that video by Covert Cabal', "Russia's Central Tank Storage Base is now Virtually Empty - The 22nd", 23 Nov 2024:
View attachment 6679769View attachment 6679771

Stop showing this
This is land war not storage war
Warcrime((((

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

@Astro Galactic Megalul
quotes are derping for me, but it's basically members of the band formerly as Wagner, now called the Russian Expeditionary Corps, joining the ranks of former people.

I should've edited it to "formerly alive", would've been easier to understand the joke

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

Of course this is all part of the cunning plan, every corrupt useless officer that gets ACKed by a drone or missile just makes the glorious Russian Army stronger comrades.

Or prevents another Napoleon from rising up and taking power. Looks like Putin is taking the Stalinpill. Surely many of these officers were counter revolutionaries and they just avoided another civil war.

Sapper tries to warn Russian soldiers on mines on the road. He's run over for his efforts and they hit the mine. A Russian story.

This is peak grim dark humor. Rip the sapper, I kinda hope he lives but is taken out of the fight. The crew 100% deserved the mine. I hope they live too though and are forever crippled.

Zigger brotherhood and intelligence on full display.

With brothers like these who need enemies?

 

[No. 7 cat]

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2024/11/23/ukraine-gets-a-new-hawk-raising-the-stakes-for-russian-aircraft/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1okXfQLvKH7UN7zBOTAcTNRE09Jq9B_8yb5azVp5X4w3Vo_Bmc-kHsHl0_aem_Bp85zONyorTn8wtbMDW2NQ

Spain has sent HAWK MIM-23 batteries to Poland and these will be sent to Ukraine shortly. The article notes how ancient it is, but (as noted before in the thread) Ukrainian operators appreciate its ease of operation. Lots of countries with threadbare military spending like it as it works and is cheap. Ukraine has a vast front, so cheap is very good.

 

[MG-34]

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2024/11/23/ukraine-gets-a-new-hawk-raising-the-stakes-for-russian-aircraft/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1okXfQLvKH7UN7zBOTAcTNRE09Jq9B_8yb5azVp5X4w3Vo_Bmc-kHsHl0_aem_Bp85zONyorTn8wtbMDW2NQ

Spain has sent HAWK MIM-23 batteries to Poland and these will be sent to Ukraine shortly. The article notes how ancient it is, but (as noted before in the thread) Ukrainian operators appreciate its ease of operation. Lots of countries with threadbare military spending like it as it works and is cheap. Ukraine has a vast front, so cheap is very good.

The HAWK is old, but considering it's going against increasingly older or monkey made russia tech its useful.

 

[World in Scarlet]

How many Generals has Russia lost in this war now?

They have a spreadsheet.

 

[Hatter]

against increasingly older or monkey made russia tech its useful.

Has Russia even pressed older MIG and SU models back into service? They are one of the few pieces of equipment that haven't suffered catastrophic losses when compared to MBTs and IFVs.

 

[MG-34]

Has Russia even pressed older MIG and SU models back into service? They are one of the few pieces of equipment that haven't suffered catastrophic losses when compared to MBTs and IFVs.

MiGs? No. But there's a bunch of older cruise missiles and those janky North Korean pot metal missiles that the HAWK can outmatch. The Aircraft are better engaged with F-16s and Patriots.

 

[mindlessobserver]

View attachment 6680620
They have a spreadsheet.

That's really brutal tbqh. The Russian Army is going to be seriously hollowed out for a generation because of this. The loss of Lieutenants and Captains in particular is going to bite them over time.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Has Russia even pressed older MIG and SU models back into service? They are one of the few pieces of equipment that haven't suffered catastrophic losses when compared to MBTs and IFVs.

Afaik only those MiGs and SUs currently in use are having their boneyard brethren being either cannibalize for parts or for the fortunate few made flyable again. Russia is a terrible place to boneyard aircraft if the intent to maybe have them flyable again in case of emergency.

Ukraine is also in the same boat as the only they're pulling out of their boneyards are what they're using right now.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Afaik only those MiGs and SUs currently in use are having their boneyard brethren being either cannibalize for parts or for the fortunate few made flyable again. Russia is a terrible place to boneyard aircraft if the intent to maybe have them flyable again in case of emergency.

America can boneyard its decommissioned aircraft in the southwest desert. No moisture, not major temperature fluctuations and no weather that can blow sand around. North America cannot stop winning.

 

[The best and greatest]

That's really brutal tbqh. The Russian Army is going to be seriously hollowed out for a generation because of this. The loss of Lieutenants and Captains in particular is going to bite them over time.

Difficult to say since a good number of those officers were likely political appointments with an outdated understanding of war.

Its likely the people replacing them will be far better at the job.

 

[No. 7 cat]

source - honestly given how Russia puts up statues of Stalin (it has so many already of Lenin and closed down a museum dedicated to communist atrocities, it's Ukraine that rips those statues down like in Kursk), this is on a water is wet level. The A&N retards who love Red Russia are basically communist rubbish.

 

[Fatsuit Shinji]

Their off site brethren already getting giddy at the thought of genociding every nation's inhabitants who had joined NATO after the end of the Cold War.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

"Killed 500 North Korean soldiers?" That can't be right. The other numbers in the article seem much more reasonable.

I thought so too. Other outlets are repeating those numbers as well, but I figure they're highly optimistic. Even if there happened to be a huge subsurface hive/barracks literally packed with norks, I'd say 500 is still a bit much.

 

[Ghostse]

Has Russia even pressed older MIG and SU models back into service? They are one of the few pieces of equipment that haven't suffered catastrophic losses when compared to MBTs and IFVs.

Depends on what you consider "old".
Both side are/were using Su-24, introduced 1974, for air support as it has a big combat load; ukraine because they didn't have anything better, Russia because they were cheaper and more plentiful at the start of the war than Su-34s. The changing threat environment has gotten Russia to largely move away from the Su-24 except as an air-launched cruise missile platform.
Poorly sourced wonking has said a lot of the russian Su-24 airframes are pretty well fucked due to stress from trying into the SAM zone.
Su-25 is also heavily used by both sides introduced in 1975, but those airframes are holding up better.

For MiGs, the oldest is the Mig-29 introduced in 1983. There isn't a lot to say here as they are mostly interceptors vs. Sukhoi's multi-role and they haven't been really mixed up in the shit after the first couple of weeks, mostly flying CAP and using look-down radar to lob stand-off missiles at Ukrainian jets. They have seen a number of losses just due to Slavic maintenance schedules (aka none) and a handful of humiliating shootdowns from pilots not appreciating a change in the airspace.

And Tu-95 bombers (introduced 1956) are also used for cruise missiles, but they are used at such range and altitude they only threat is drones when they are on the ground.

Something something An-50 and Il-76, also from the early 80s.

And just for transparency, the F-16 was introduced in 1978 but has seen significant upgrades since then.

edit: forgot to tie that all together:
Russia isn't seeing air-to-air combat, and all areas where close air support would be needed are completely rotten with SAMs; Anything older than an Su-24 is just going to be SAM fodder, and even that's pushing it. The Su-25 is only able to keep in the fight because it was designed to fly under SAM radar.
The older planes would have issues integrating modern weapons as well; the Su-25 is mostly just doing rocket lobs.

Russia has something like 500 Mig-29s, granted a lot of those are mothballed (read: utterly fucked and need a rebuild) but it is very unlikely they will be in a situation where even if they have some Mig-25s or 21s lying around that they will be pressing them into service.
I know never say never, but Russia would likely poison Putin KGB style tap out on Ukraine before their airwings reach such a dire situation.

You see those old deep coldwar planes active in two cases:
A) as a bomber/attack craft against insurgents as lack of effective AA means they are able to operate nearly uncontested.
B) as an AA missile platform, because it just needs to lock and launch.

A isn't DEFINITELY not the case for the Ukrainian theater, and B is currently not needed by Russia.

Afaik only those MiGs and SUs currently in use are having their boneyard brethren being either cannibalize for parts or for the fortunate few made flyable again. Russia is a terrible place to boneyard aircraft if the intent to maybe have them flyable again in case of emergency.

Ukraine is also in the same boat as the only they're pulling out of their boneyards are what they're using right now.

Ukraine is also getting boneyard parts from former WARPACT/WARPACT supplied countries. Lots of former SSRs taking advantage of the incredible deals on trade-in.

I thought so too. Other outlets are repeating those numbers as well, but I figure they're highly optimistic. Even if there happened to be a huge subsurface hive/barracks literally packed with norks, I'd say 500 is still a bit much.

My assumption is Journiggers repeating other journolies, and start of the telephone game getting something wrong and never bothered to follow up or double check because lol a modern journigger doing research or checking statements instead of mashing the "submit" button as soon as they have stopped squiting out text.

i.e. The NK General who got whacked INJURED BUT YOU CAN'T INTERVIEW HIM RIGHT NOW may have been "leading a unit of 500 soldiers", the wrecked base capable of holding 500 soldiers, or 500 NK & Russian soldiers in total being injured & killed.

 

[Fanatical Pragmatist]

Has Russia even pressed older MIG and SU models back into service? They are one of the few pieces of equipment that haven't suffered catastrophic losses when compared to MBTs and IFVs.

So the thing is with SAMs and aircraft is that both are going to be suppressive rather than destructive.
An older SAM doesn't need to kill the enemy aircraft to do its job, if it can get the opposing aircraft to either 1) abort or 2) hit-the-deck and dive below radar (and thus reduce the effective range of their own weapons).
Now the same thing applies in reverse, where an aircraft armed with an ARM doesn't need to kill the SAM to do its job (or defend itself) if it can get the enemy SAM to shut off its radar.

 

[mindlessobserver]

View attachment 6681865

source - honestly given how Russia puts up statues of Stalin (it has so many already of Lenin and closed down a museum dedicated to communist atrocities, it's Ukraine that rips those statues down like in Kursk), this is on a water is wet level. The A&N retards who love Red Russia are basically communist rubbish.

Why would Bundanov lie? I mean, besides the fact it's his job too. Even by Russian standards this sounds alot like the Iraqi army throwing ICU infants out windows.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

View attachment 6681865

source - honestly given how Russia puts up statues of Stalin (it has so many already of Lenin and closed down a museum dedicated to communist atrocities, it's Ukraine that rips those statues down like in Kursk), this is on a water is wet level. The A&N retards who love Red Russia are basically communist rubbish.

Isn't it something like 800,000 Ukrainian children have been disappearing into Russia, never to be seen again?

 

[Ghostse]

So the thing is with SAMs and aircraft is that both are going to be suppressive rather than destructive.
An older SAM doesn't need to kill the enemy aircraft to do its job, if it can get the opposing aircraft to either 1) abort or 2) hit-the-deck and dive below radar (and thus reduce the effective range of their own weapons).
Now the same thing applies in reverse, where an aircraft armed with an ARM doesn't need to kill the SAM to do its job (or defend itself) if it can get the enemy SAM to shut off its radar.

Russia is also being much more cautious with their fighters; they can make a reasonable assumption that NATO won't be sending boots on the ground into Moscow, especially not without a LOT of forewarning/build-up, but sending F-35s to or tomahawks to give Putin a hearty sack-tap is always on the menu and they need to be ready.

Hawks are going to be plenty lethal against Su-24s and (su-25s if they can get them) but mostly its for drones and slower cruise missiles.

Why would Bundanov lie? I mean, besides the fact it's his job too. Even by Russian standards this sounds alot like the Iraqi army throwing ICU infants out windows.

I'll believe that Russia had lists of who to round up - I recall they had them for Mariupol and Kherson - so that part I believe. The shit about the mobile crematoriums seems like the tales of the Holocoaster. But who the fuck knows, they were shoving civies into mass graves in Bucha.

Isn't it something like 800,000 Ukrainian children have been disappearing into Russia, never to be seen again?

That number includes children from the Donbros iirc.