Community Munchausen's by Internet (Malingerers, Munchies, Spoonies, etc) - Feigning Illnesses for Attention

[Jupiter Doughnuts]

I don't want this thread to turn into yet another forum that's debating how based killing insurance execs is, but I thought it was interesting that Luigi Mangione had been butchered by a spine surgeon and had chronic back pain exacerbated by it. Makes me think of all of our girls who are just begging for fusions.

CNN interview on the topic: https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/br...vestigation-12-9-24#cm4hpnvtq0005356qwdi0ioo3

Youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTUD93zpM-M

Magione's spine:

More interesting links:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/12/10/nyregion/unitedhealthcare-ceo-luigi-mangione#luigi-mangione-health-issues-reddit

https://archive.ph/OikWT

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/local-news/luigi-mangione-missing-unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-BWINPGS47VF25CPNVRMMSROYN4/

https://archive.ph/lwiFV

 

[Zemblan Physics]

I thought it was interesting that Luigi Mangione had been butchered by a spine surgeon and had chronic back pain exacerbated by it.

I agree, but I’m also a little confused as to why this supposedly clever - and definitely well educated - young man didn’t research the likely outcome of such surgery. It’s doubly confusing since he seemed to be into health and fitness, and physical therapy by far has the best results when it comes to chronic back pain.

My takeaway from a very interesting rotation on a pain clinic was that the majority of (benign) chronic pain patients had psychiatric issues (mostly personality disorders tbh). Not to say mentally healthy people don’t have chronic pain, but they sort of deal with it and continue to try to live as best they can and the pain doesn’t become what defines them.

However, long term chronic pain of course can cause some psychiatric issues like depression, and maybe that’s what happened to this guy. Rate me lame and gay, but I just don’t think rational people commit murder.

 

[Jupiter Doughnuts]

My takeaway from a very interesting rotation on a pain clinic was that the majority of (benign) chronic pain patients had psychiatric issues (mostly personality disorders tbh). Not to say mentally healthy people don’t have chronic pain, but they sort of deal with it and continue to try to live as best they can and the pain doesn’t become what defines them.

In the main thread there's mentions that he had a lot of posts about brain fog starting in his early 20s (depression? schizophrenia prodrome?), IBS, and chronic lyme on his reddit account, in addition to getting a fusion. Maybe we found the rare male munchie!

Quotes from other thread:

On reddit, he commented in one post that he contracted Lyme, definitely got tested and treated "immediately" at 13, thinks he had symptoms at 15 and the tested again at 20 negatively.

Another post he says he contracted Lyme and never got tested or treated for it he just knows he missed soccer tryouts. Which is true? Doesn't matter, he's already an untrustworthy source about his health issues.

To have Lyme symptoms for multiple years suggests he thinks he had chronic Lyme disease, which is mostly agreed does not exist in the medical community. Lyme disease exists, chronic Lyme does not.

In another post he talks about having IBS. In another he says he can't remember basic chess moves from one day to the next but chose to study CS and Bio and later became a teaching assistant.

His back problem is pretty common in kids and young people - your spine doesn't even fuse until you're around 25. He didn't need surgery unless he was shitting/pissing himself. Pretty easy to think your potential IBS is your condition worsening when you're already obsessed with your health and aware of Lyme symptoms at puberty. His mind was already prepped for such malingering. I would not be surprised if he sought the surgery himself given how much research he was doing otherwise. DDP has helped people in much more severe positions without doing mushrooms or invasive surgeries. He went to a spiritual retreat, not yoga-centric or dedicated to healing a physical problem. He went for a spiritual problem because his brain fog and supposed health issues are symptoms of depression and it's really gross to see a rich handsome guy depressed and most of his peers will never accept depression as an excuse. He dropped out of his family from guilt and shame and embarrassment for the fact he is, on paper, still a loser compared to his politician and lawyer and doctor family.

Apparently it's pretty serious and is what led him to biology:

 

[Zemblan Physics]

In the main thread there's mentions that he had a lot of posts about brain fog starting in his early 20s (depression? schizophrenia prodrome?), IBS, and chronic lyme on his reddit account

Yeah, I definitely wouldn’t rule out prodromal phase of schizophrenia for this guy, especially after reading those Reddit posts. He’s most likely high IQ which can help a person mask symptoms for a while, and from reading the manifesto it doesn’t seem that his thinking is highly disorganized… yet. But who knows, maybe he just solved his failure to launch by making sure he’ll never have to work outside the penitentiary laundry room again.

(Also, health rumination is common in high functioning autists but this guy doesn’t strike me as very ‘spergy.)

 

[Totallyunknown]

I found the Farms because I was researching munchausens so I am admittedly both biased and keenly aware of the symptoms of munchausens. I would accept that his confusion was part of his diagnostic process but the Lyme mention really set off the red flags.

It is very unusual for a boy at thirteen to be aware of Lyme. Unless he was infected, diagnosed and treated by way of parental influence that would make sense to me. Kid maybe gets bit by a tick or something and parents notice something is off and take him in for effective and proven treatment of Lyme. This would last maybe a year or so TOPS and then he'd be back to mostly normal, maybe with some lingering effects such as brain fog.

By 15, he would likely no longer have symptoms of Lyme. By 20 he would have absolutely zero symptoms unless he was re-bit. His brain fog must be attributed to something else. He is not a doctor so he can make mistakes but to be so smart, so aware, so educated and researched quoting Camus in a manifesto, he did not see a single thing explaining chronic Lyme was not possible. Weird.

What can be determined as fact is the back surgery for spondy as we can see the xrays and he obviously experienced some level of discomfort. However, if the condition had progressed so far that his dick literally did not work, he would likely also be incontinent and unable to walk without assistance. This is to my understanding a common condition that happens in adolescent and more often than not is not treated with invasive surgery unless the patient is incontinent or experiencing life altering pain as it is extremely dangerous to operate on the spine. Most people with this condition wait until they are much older and lived through decades of pain as it degenerates into numbness in limbs etc. Luigi chose this within one year of receiving an injury that exacerbated the previously diagnosed spondy and did extended research finding dozens of athletes and celebrities who had the same surgery to "prove" the surgery worked.

As I mentioned, incontinence is a huge symptom of the degeneration. He also mentioned IBS on reddit and controlling that through diet. We can assume he had some sort of issue with shitting - considering he seemed to lead a healthy lifestyle, this would be confusing. Unless he was self medicating with various pain killers or psychedelics - a very easy example is those allergic to penicillin will likely shit uncontrollably if they take mushrooms. We also know opiates cause constipation. If he had been diagnosed with a degenerative condition and was self medicating with various drugs, that would explain his shitting problems more than IBS and the condition.

I believe this is a rare male munchie and that in its rarity we have seen that male aggression shapes how this mental illness comes out in men. Both the idea of being less than or a loser as well as the hubris of an ego that believes they know everything turned into an aggression pointed at the world when he was denied what he thinks is his righteous deserved care.

This does not mean that it changes how people feel about the murder of someone who made bank off of people's suffering. It will be a moral debate for the ages as to whether it was "right" or "wrong". As a Canadian, I'm not even going to express an opinion on that health care system and the way it might make people feel.

But I know munchies. And I sincerely believe it'll come out that he had / has way more schizo beliefs on his health. Female munchies may kill themselves, perhaps male munchies kill others (wow so surprising).

 

[Zemblan Physics]

take him in for effective and proven treatment of Lyme. This would last maybe a year or so TOPS and then he'd be back to mostly normal, maybe with some lingering effects such as brain fog

Don’t know where you got your info, but even if he did have neuroborreliosis the treatment wouldn’t be longer than a standard course of antibiotics. Doesn’t even have to be intravenous. A year is just ridiculous.

Also, the symptoms of neuroborreliosis is more along the lines of pain affecting a nerve root, general and unspecific symptoms are rare and always secondary to the obvious signs. You can get a viral encephalitis from tics - those infections give dramatic symptoms like severe headaches, altered mental state and level of consciousness and even seizures, and can give long lasting debilitating symptoms even after the infection has resolved, like impaired memory, but you’d always know that the encephalitis had caused it.

I don’t think he’s a munchie. Seems more like a guy who had a cognitive and mental decline that he was seeking answers for in all the wrong places.

 

[Totallyunknown]

Don’t know where you got your info, but even if he did have neuroborreliosis the treatment wouldn’t be longer than a standard course of antibiotics. Doesn’t even have to be intravenous. A year is just ridiculous.

Also, the symptoms of neuroborreliosis is more along the lines of pain affecting a nerve root, general and unspecific symptoms are rare and always secondary to the obvious signs. You can get a viral encephalitis from tics - those infections give dramatic symptoms like severe headaches, altered mental state and level of consciousness and even seizures, and can give long lasting debilitating symptoms even after the infection has resolved, like impaired memory, but you’d always know that the encephalitis had caused it.

I don’t think he’s a munchie. Seems more like a guy who had a cognitive and mental decline that he was seeking answers for in all the wrong places.

Right, he claimed to get Lyme at 13, still have symptoms at 15 and questioned if it was still chronic Lyme at 20. This is quoted directly from his own reddit posts so he claims to have gotten it at 13 and had over seven years of related symptoms. You've also given him a diagnosis he never claimed.

By giving him a year TOPS is to give him multiple months to bypass the lingering side effects of initial Lyme. To talk about Lyme at 20 years old because you maybe had it (he contradicted himself and said he was tested and in another post said he was never tested or treated) at 13 is malingering.

 

[Zemblan Physics]

Right, he claimed to get Lyme at 13, still have symptoms at 15 and questioned if it was still chronic Lyme at 20. This is quoted directly from his own reddit posts so he claims to have gotten it at 13 and had over seven years of related symptoms. You've also given him a diagnosis he never claimed.

By giving him a year TOPS is to give him multiple months to bypass the lingering side effects of initial Lyme. To talk about Lyme at 20 years old because you maybe had it (he contradicted himself and said he was tested and in another post said he was never tested or treated) at 13 is malingering.

lol.

 

[Hybrid Icing]

I don’t think he’s a munchie. Seems more like a guy who had a cognitive and mental decline that he was seeking answers for in all the wrong places.

I agree. A munchie doesn't disappear for three months, they start seeking attention.

I think Luigi might've just had a psychotic break.

 

[Kate Farms Shill]

I follow but don't post about a bunch of what I call MBP lite moms. They're almost all stay-at-home mommy blogger types. They're not really making their kids sick for attention, but their kid has some real bout of illness in childhood that throws mom's anxiety into overdrive. They find a diagnosis and convince themselves their child has it. PANDAS, gluten intolerance, vague immune system dysfunctions, whatever. Mom finds her answer and is satisfied. She's not looking for other things wrong with the child. She's not taking the child to the doctor for testing and treatments they don't need. She just stumbled on some answer to her question.

For example, the kid has a few bouts of gastro symptoms. Mom looks it up online and decides it's gluten intolerance. She cuts gluten out of the child's diet which eliminates a ton of "kid food". The kid no longer has gastro symptoms. Mom is satisfied with the answer but for the rest of the child's youth they're told they can't have gluten. Any time they overindulge in candy or catch a little stomach bug and feel rotten, mom says it's gluten exposure. The kid believes it and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. When they do rebel and eat gluten they worry themselves to gastro symptoms.

I'm wondering if that's not what happened here. A kid who had a real illness whose anxious parent conditioned him to believe every nerve twitch, headache, and bout of sleep deprivation-induced fatigue is the long term effects of the disease. Then he got thrown into the pressure cooker of college and frat life and found himself less resilient than his peers because he was already primed to think that and it became his confirmation the disease was real.

(Disclaimer, I haven't followed this story at all because I find the discourse about it absolutely disgusting. i'm just going off what was posted ITT)

 

[Otterly]

Magione's spine:

I’d be interested in anyone who is close to orthopaedics’ verdict on that screw placement. It may just be taken at a bit of an angle but it looks like the alignment of the whole thing is twisted. Again it may just be how 2d renderings of 3d things can look weird on pictures. It also looks like the screws are a bit too long? It’s a brutal surgery, anything that fucks up your back or pelvis is really nasty.

Also, health rumination is common in high functioning autists but this guy doesn’t strike me as very ‘spergy.

I think he’s a very intelligent, very privileged young man, who has had a charmed youth. He’s a good looking lad (not my type but I can see he’s ok looking.) fit, healthy, money.
Then boom. Degenerative disease plus injury. That’s a lot to take, and I will bet you the first bit of real world hardship he’s ever had to deal with. And I get it - chronic pain does make you want to kill people and spinal / sacroiliac pain is awful. Painkillers are awful. Whatever other meds he was put on as well seems to have driven him to a break.
It is very hard to be young and shiny and then struck down with something not at all glamour just grindingly, horribly painful. All those fun things like surfing are no longer on the menu… forever.
Lad has rushed into surgery, been dosed up on goodness knows what and seen the future he thought he’d have dissolve. For the first time in his life he’s run up against something his looks or money or family can’t fix. Maybe that’s coincided with the prodromal phase of schizophrenia or maybe he’s been literally driven mad by pain and medication.

 

[Jimmy Dean Bowl]

What can be determined as fact is the back surgery for spondy as we can see the xrays and he obviously experienced some level of discomfort. However, if the condition had progressed so far that his dick literally did not work, he would likely also be incontinent and unable to walk without assistance.

Everyone is taking the roommate's interview as proof that the guys dick didn't work. This is an assumption.
He said that Luigi had trouble with intimacy due to his condition.

This is more than likely due to the fact that spondylolisthesis trapping the nerves exiting the spine gave him so much buttock and leg pain that he couldn't have sex without being in agony.
Imagine, Italian with a fully functioning penis but you can't be as rampant as you want because your spine is borked.
Add to this you can't walk without pain, have trouble sleeping, can no longer surf...of course he chose the surgery. Is he meant to live in pain his whole life?

His imaging still shows significant slippage post surgery too, so it's possible his symptoms weren't relieved by the op.
This could explain a breakdown.

 

[Otterly]

His imaging still shows significant slippage post surgery too,

It does. How does that happen, when it’s literally screwed in place? Or would you need to do more than bung a couple of screws in L5 and S1 to stop any movement at all? I’d assumed that putting some metalwork in would stop any movement between those points (I know it can increase it elsewhere) but obviously I’m wrong on that if slippage still happens.
It must be incredibly painful.

 

[Jimmy Dean Bowl]

It does. How does that happen, when it’s literally screwed in place? Or would you need to do more than bung a couple of screws in L5 and S1 to stop any movement at all? I’d assumed that putting some metalwork in would stop any movement between those points (I know it can increase it elsewhere) but obviously I’m wrong on that if slippage still happens.
It must be incredibly painful.

A fusion is meant to stop further slippage, and should.
It holds the vertebrae in place with screws and plates until the bone graft that's sprinkled in between manages to form a decent solid bridge between vertebrae. Once fully healed (takes up to a year) it should be a solid lump of bone from L5 - S1.

Slippage after a fusion can be from poor fusion (bone graft failure), patient failure to follow postoperative instructions (eg. taking part in strenuous activities and lifting heavy weights too early) or unaddressed pre-existing segment instability.

Looking at his imaging again I can only see the slightest trace of bone formation between the vertebrae - his fusion failed categorically.
This guy went through all those hours of surgery, all that pain, just for the vertebrae to reslip.

That lower screw placement is a mess too. To drill beyond the bone through to the tissues is insanity. The screw is way too long, and the surgeon would have known this when he took the imaging before he closed skin. Hell, he would have known when he felt his drill go through the bone. Yet he chose to close up like that. That screw didn't migrate to that position. It's just been badly chosen. The patient was put at risk of infection and was probably in a lot of pain as a result of it.
Again, reason for his mental collapse?

*Sperg over*

 

[glioblastoma multiforme]

As not a medfag, how does one make sure you're not putting a screw straight through the nerve column? Or just massively interfering with a nerve?

Based on some quick Googling it appears its not single screws through the middle, but two rows, one on either side. In the middle of the metalwork where the slippage is, what actually happens to the nerves? How far can they get stretched ? I couldn't find an answer but did find out our nerves, laid from end to end, stretch 45 miles. I also found out that nerves can snap but it seems that's more of an issue when a sudden force is applied.

Sorry for probably being retarded, but my brain is having a hard time computing how this surgery is supposed to help anybody. Even more than usual when x rays of butchered spines are posted.

Also re drilling beyond the bone, I have a bunch of screws beyond a bone that cause no problems. Its a different area of the body with no organs, is that what makes it insanity here?

 

[Alamo basement dweller]

Holy shit, those messages between Dani and her mods are rage inducing. It's impossible to talk to her without her defaulting to every borderline's favorite refrain of "Nevermind, I'm stupid and wrong and the worst person ever" in an effort to turn the conversation in to a personal pan pity party. I don't know how those women do it, I want to virtually slap her.

 

[Jimmy Dean Bowl]

Snip

Pedicle screws shouldn't be anywhere near the spinal nerves, but unfortunately it happens.
In this picture we are looking at the spine from above, and the yellow parts marked 'A' are the spinal nerves.
The part that looks like a crown is vertebrae. Attached, but not seen in this picture is the vertebrae directly underneath the spongy looking disc. Vertebrae are stacked on top of one another, with discs sandwiched between, and the nerves run horizontally and vertically through tiny holes in the vertebrae.

The surgeon drills through the level horizontally that doesn't contain the nerves (imagine a slice below this one with vertebrae where the disc is, without the yellow bits), and in a position laterally to avoid the spinal column and exiting spinal nerves.

There's no nerves being stretched or snapped in a regular fusion surgery (hopefully!). Spondylolisthesis patients may have nerves which have been damaged prior to surgery which can be damaged further, unfortunately this is one one the risks of the surgery for all patients.

Nerves do have a bit of elasticity to them, but no-one is playing with them that much to really study it ethically in humans. There's probably a rat study out there that answers your question.

Fusion surgeries are not done for pain control, contrary to what most people believe. They are done to stabilise the spine and prevent future vertebral collapse/nerve damage/loss of function.
People who have this surgery are desperate a lot of the time and sometimes don't realise the risks and complications involved.

A screw protruding beyond bone isn't automatically a disaster. It's a poor surgical choice, but based on where in the body it is you're probably fine. You may still have irritation or infection in the future, but that risk is very low now.
Hardware can be weird though.

 

[OrSoHelpMe]

Nerves do have a bit of elasticity to them, but no-one is playing with them that much to really study it ethically in humans.

Has anyone asked Kelly?

 

[salt]

I don’t think Luigi is a munchie, because a key part of munching is getting attention. Up until he apparently decided to kill a health insurance CEO, he wasn’t doing any of the things munchies do. No e-begging, went to school, worked real jobs.

Being in so much pain/having sufficient mental illness that you decide offing a health insurance CEO is a good idea makes sense to me. I’m actually sort of surprised it doesn’t happen more often. Note: This is in no way a comment on the morality of offing health insurance CEO’s.

 

[fitty tucker]

Some gross hag "drained her catheter" in a fucking public bush and felt the need to post about it. This is secondhand from reddit, I don't care enough to find this munchie's platform.



Then posts crying for asspats and sympathy because ???? (because she pissed in a bush and was so embarrassed about it she filmed it and posted it publicly??)



Can we talk about the retarded performance that is writing fucking image descriptions (inherently for screen readers for blind people) on a completely visual platform like instagram or tiktok?

Obligatory picture of this super special disabled person-of-gender:



Edit to add: this nonbinary blob is one of the reasons I finally signed up to kiwi farms. When I learned that the "THEY/THEM ONLY" tag on the illnessfakers subreddit was not in fact satire, it was time to find somewhere new lol