Not Just Bikes / r/fuckcars / Urbanists / New Urbanism / Car-Free / Anti-Car - People and grifters who hate personal transport, freedom, cars, roads, suburbs, and are obsessed with city planning and urban design

If you ask a New Yorker why they haven't moved to a cheaper city that has everything that NYC has for a fraction of the price, they'll tell you that no other city in the US has museums and Broadway shows.
I never quite understood the "Broadway shows & Museums" argument for why it's nice to live in NYC - like, there's only so many Broadway shows playing at any given time. It's easy to see them all within a month if you have enough free time. & Museum exhibits rarely change that often - once you've seen the Dinosaur bones a few times in the Museum of Natural History, or Van Goh's Starry Night at the MoMa, there's little reason to see them again.

& good museums aren't exclusive to NYC. I'm an Okie, and my tornado-swept flyover state has a shit-ton of world renowned museums - thanks to oil barons kicking the bucket and their vast art & artifact collections being turned into the museums by their descendants for tax break purposes. For example, the Philbrook Museum, or the Gilcrease Museum. Oh, wait, I guess those museums don't count to urbanists, since you need a car to get to them (since they're in a state with practically non-existent public transportation).
 
The fuck car idiots have never been to Tokyo.
They've never been to their bike Mecca (Netherlands) either. If you actually live there instead of being a tourist, it becomes clear that the only people who scoot around in their bikes constantly are just can't afford driving a car. Also, their public transport is not good either and expensive on top of that.
 
I never quite understood the "Broadway shows & Museums" argument for why it's nice to live in NYC
Its cargo cult "cultured". I'm cultured because I live in a place surrounded by culture, not any personal achievement. They are personalityless soy consumers with no thoughts of their own, so by being in a place full of other people it makes them more interesting by association and hopefully by osmosis. Just look at how much they brag about their gas station hot dog level pizza.

It might have been true that NYC was one of the most impressive places to be 50 years ago, but now it's just like everywhere else.
 
Its cargo cult "cultured". I'm cultured because I live in a place surrounded by culture, not any personal achievement. They are personalityless soy consumers with no thoughts of their own, so by being in a place full of other people it makes them more interesting by association and hopefully by osmosis. Just look at how much they brag about their gas station hot dog level pizza.
This is exactly it - you can probably find the statistics on Broadway shows and ticket sales and most of them go to tourists.

Sure, some New Yorkers no doubt regularly visit the NYPhil, but I bet if you started attending every show, you'd find a decent number of "regulars", a few locals, and mostly tourists. (Roughly 80% of walt disney world attendees are non-local, whereas the inverse is true of Disneyland, 80% are from Southern California).

The whole "new york has everything" cope is just that - as you can have access to almost all the things it has from 2/3 hours outside it. A four hour round trip to see a show is annoying, but not terrible.

So the only real thing left they have is the food (people aren't driving 2 hours to get food, usually, though an hour isn't uncommon in some areas).
 
So the only real thing left they have is the food (people aren't driving 2 hours to get food, usually, though an hour isn't uncommon in some areas).
They don't even have that.

You can get pizza, bagels, hot dogs, and whatever ethnic slop is trending in every city in the country. The only cuisine that NYC has that other cites lack is high end tasting menu places, but every time I've eaten at one there, every patron is a tourist (the wait staff always asks where you're from and I've never overheard another table say that they're locals). That makes sense because the average New Yorker who struggles to pay their inflated rent can't afford to eat out at places where a single meal costs several hundred dollars per person.

Regarding NYC having every cuisine, good luck finding quality barbecue there. Unlike bagels and pizza, BBQ is an actual regional cuisine that you have to travel to the South to get.

I don't want to hate on NYC too much, but they make themselves so easy to hate with how smug/snooty they are and how much they look down upon the rest of the country. I feel qualified to criticize them though because unlike most of them, I have been all over the country.
 
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Turns out that NYC is more congested now after congestion pricing than it was at the same time last year:
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Source (Archive)

I would guess that this is due to the "road diet" projects that the city has done over the past year.
 
This is exactly it - you can probably find the statistics on Broadway shows and ticket sales and most of them go to tourists.

Sure, some New Yorkers no doubt regularly visit the NYPhil, but I bet if you started attending every show, you'd find a decent number of "regulars", a few locals, and mostly tourists. (Roughly 80% of walt disney world attendees are non-local, whereas the inverse is true of Disneyland, 80% are from Southern California).

The whole "new york has everything" cope is just that - as you can have access to almost all the things it has from 2/3 hours outside it. A four hour round trip to see a show is annoying, but not terrible.

So the only real thing left they have is the food (people aren't driving 2 hours to get food, usually, though an hour isn't uncommon in some areas).
NYC is worth it if you're on a career track that is one of those ultra-high paying ones. Still remember that 200K in NYC is like 80k in the Midwest for life quality.
 
NYC is worth it if you're on a career track that is one of those ultra-high paying ones. Still remember that 200K in NYC is like 80k in the Midwest for life quality.
The trick (if you can do it without becoming a soyorker) is to suffer in the $200k job, keep expenses as low as possible, and sock as much away in tax-advantaged retirement accounts as you can, and then flee new york to some other more modest city (which still has all the city amenities and niggers you could want) for a similar job. Now you're ten years into your career, have multiple millions in retirement accounts, and can fuck around doing whatever you want.

The problem with this plan is most people can't tear themselves away after the ten years, and just stay in the grind.
 
The whole "new york has everything" cope is just that - as you can have access to almost all the things it has from 2/3 hours outside it. A four hour round trip to see a show is annoying, but not terrible.
I'm repeating myself but a lot of the impressive flagship stores New York used to have are largely all gone. Toys R Us, Lord & Taylor, and others closed their New York flagships before failing altogether.

The only "flagship" remaining is Macy's, which based on a directory I had once carries the same stuff of the mall stores (not that they didn't try to add new stuff via third-party vendors) but just more of it with extra food stands (these food shops are the same thing you'd see everywhere else--Auntie Anne's, Starbucks, McDonald's). I'm not sure of their customer base anymore, though I can guess it's mostly tourists and New Yorkers but only from lack of choice elsewhere. I guess there's the Nintendo store too (they took back the Gulf War Game Boy to Seattle, and with the Switch's focus on digital probably more merch than games now)...but there's no other big flagships or one-of-a-kind retailers anymore.

There are no Walmart stores in the city (though there were a few Kmart stores until about five or so years ago) either, as iffy as some of their stores are they provide a complete merchandise mix and their grocery department is miles ahead of your average bodega.

Since Walmart is ubiquitous just about everywhere in United States and in many ways representative of every negative American stereotype, I'm sure that urbanists have a strawman answer to that ready to go (like "cargo bikes") but I've never heard of one.
 
I'm repeating myself but a lot of the impressive flagship stores New York used to have are largely all gone. Toys R Us, Lord & Taylor, and others closed their New York flagships before failing altogether.
They still have a bunch in Times Square and along Fifth Avenue.

The mistake that urbanists make is assuming that they're there because of the city's high density when in reality they're tourist destinations run at a loss by the parent companies and only exist at their current locations for historical reasons.
there's no other big flagships or one-of-a-kind retailers anymore.
You're correct that there are no real unique stores anymore. Chains/franchising and the internet have made it so that there is no longer anything exclusive to big cities. The Apple Store on 5th Ave sells the exact same products as the one in an exurban mall; it just has fancier architecture and decor.
 
The only "flagship" remaining is Macy's
And even there NY is btfo because the Wanamaker Organ (lol wannawanker organ) is in Philadelphia, which NYC generally considers to be an absolute shithole. Amusing thing about actual urbanists who live in an urban city, they almost always universally agree that other cities are shitholes, and if their friendly all they will do is bitch how their city is now a shithole, too.

The mistake that urbanists make is assuming that they're there because of the city's high density when in reality they're tourist destinations run at a loss by the parent companies and only exist at their current locations for historical reasons.

Even if they're profitable, it's because they're a tourist destination. Actual city residents are fine buying their shit in a black concrete box or having it delivered; tourists want to "see the amazing store".

That Apple Store pulls in something like $350m annually, so it's probably "worth it" by some calculation, but it's clearly a marketing budget. It has 500 employees and the land has to be worth a pretty penny.

As a side note, cities themselves are "flagships" for states/countries. Sometimes implicitly, sometimes explicitly. We call this tourism now, but in the past (and even now, look at Dubai) countries explicitly built up things to "make them look better than the competition".
 
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They still have a bunch in Times Square and along Fifth Avenue.

I mean, are they? There's the big McDonald's there but even in pre-COVID times it wasn't the biggest (that actually went to the Oklahoma "bridge" McDonald's before they remodeled it at some point in the 2010s to add a Subway), not the one with the fanciest gimmicks (the one in Florida had the big Playplace and second "Bistro Gourmet" menu), and not even the most unique in New York State. Other than that, I can't think of any truly flagship retail stores there anymore.

The mistake that urbanists make is assuming that they're there because of the city's high density when in reality they're tourist destinations run at a loss by the parent companies and only exist at their current locations for historical reasons.
I don't know if Macy's Herald Square makes a profit what with its enormous square footage and high cost of operations but the return on investment is probably terrible given that it's often bandied about in store closing discussions and the fact that Macy's closed nearly all of the remaining "flagship" stores of the stores it took over in 2005-2006, including Miami (Burdines), Houston (Foley's), Portland (Meier & Frank), and probably others.

Hudson's (would be a Macy's today) closed its downtown Detroit store in the early 1980s, even in 1971 it was losing $9M a year to theft (in 1971 dollars!); with Wikipedia citing this article from TIME magazine article (archived version). Coincidentally, this also illustrates a different picture than what urbanists like to paint about downtowns. Downtowns started to die because there was no longer a reason to go to them, and despite the article mentions "voracious space demands of the private auto" as a cause, the very next words are "the great northward movement of poor and undereducated blacks", something that urbanists aren't willing and will never address.

You're correct that there are no real unique stores anymore. Chains/franchising and the internet have made it so that there is no longer anything exclusive to big cities. The Apple Store on 5th Ave sells the exact same products as the one in an exurban mall; it just has fancier architecture and decor.

For a period of over fifty years New York City had the only American location of Takashimaya and very briefly our once and future President lured in French department store Galeries Lafayette to replace Bonwit Teller (one of the many "high fashion" New York department stores that don't exist anymore, alongside B. Altman, Barneys New York, and Lord & Taylor). Aside from Takashimaya, Nintendo World, and Galeries Lafayette I wouldn't be surprised if NYC had other "first and only" stores that never made it beyond a single (American) location.

Even if they're profitable, it's because they're a tourist destination. Actual city residents are fine buying their shit in a black concrete box or having it delivered; tourists want to "see the amazing store".

We talked in this thread about how restaurants in NYC are cramped, hard to get in (extremely expensive reservations, something unheard of even in top dollar restaurants elsewhere), and have a tendency to kick out paying customers. It's understandable why food delivery is so popular there, I can imagine something exists like that for retail.

That Apple Store pulls in something like $350m annually, so it's probably "worth it" by some calculation, but it's clearly a marketing budget. It has 500 employees and the land has to be worth a pretty penny.

plaza.jpg

The Fifth Avenue Apple store replaced a sunken courtyard area (meant for leasing space and I believe there was a restaurant back there in the 1970s), and after the courtyard was raised to ground level in the late 1990s (guess who, again) it left a newly created basement area which remained vacant until Apple built there about eight years later.
 
The Century 21 in NYC was a wonder to behold, what with it occupying something like the entire block across from the 9/11 site, and being in multiple separate buildings connected by holes in the wall.

Of course, it went bankrupt and shut down and now NYC continues to just be a dense suburb without a Walmart.
 
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