Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Space Police]

The problem with the TCW fans and Filoniverse fans in general is that they take an increasingly simplified view of Star Wars. The Empire lost because they were bumbling morons, the Clones Dindu Nuffin,

I disagree with these points as a TCW fan. The clones were in the wrong, even if they had no choice, because they could have fought it off like Rex did. The Empire didn't lose because they were dumb; they lost because of some bad luck and because the rebels had stronger force users. I do agree that the Jedi were hypocrites for trying Ahsoka; they probably would have been able to defeat Sidious if they hadn't decayed into a pompous organization focused on tradition and ritual over proactivity.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I disagree with these points as a TCW fan. The clones were in the wrong, even if they had no choice, because they could have fought it off like Rex did. The Empire didn't lose because they were dumb; they lost because of some bad luck and because the rebels had stronger force users. I do agree that the Jedi were hypocrites for trying Ahsoka; they probably would have been able to defeat Sidious if they hadn't decayed into a pompous organization focused on tradition and ritual over proactivity.

The clones had a choice. Hell, in the original explanation for Order 66 before TCW, Lucas and his crew explained that the clones consciously made the choice to betray the Jedi because they were loyal to the Republic. They believed that "good soldiers follow orders" is a legit reason to frag their Jedi commanders, especially when, as Jango Fett himself said about the clones, "They'll grow up loyal to the Republic, or they won't grow up at all." It shows the effect of indoctrination upon human minds when they're taught certain things from an early age. But it also makes the clones who resisted Order 66 more interesting, since instead of just performing brain surgery, they turned against something they were taught as a child. That's a much more interesting story than "LOL THEY WERE MIND-HACKED"

The Jedi were literally one inch away from wiping Sidious out for good, courtesy of Mace Windu. Hell, if the Jedi never made that assassination attempt, Sidious wouldn't have his legal reason to use Order 66, and the Senate would find it sus if he killed them all while they remained completely loyal to him.

 

[Space Police]

It shows the effect of indoctrination upon human minds when they're taught certain things from an early age. But it also makes the clones who resisted Order 66 more interesting, since instead of just performing brain surgery, they turned against something they were taught as a child. That's a much more interesting story than "LOL THEY WERE MIND-HACKED"

Hey, I loved the Fives storyline. This hurts

The Jedi were literally one inch away from wiping Sidious out for good, courtesy of Mace Windu. Hell, if the Jedi never made that assassination attempt, Sidious wouldn't have his legal reason to use Order 66, and the Senate would find it sus if he killed them all while they remained completely loyal to him.

But the assassination attempt was indicative of their arrogance. Why wouldn't they lure Sidious to a public place where they could show everyone in the Republic that he's a Sith who's been secretly orchestrating the war? Better yet, why wouldn't they recall Yoda, Obi-Wan, and all the other Jedi from those distant planets so they could help kill Sidious?

 

[Cactuar King]

Why wouldn't they lure Sidious to a public place where they could show everyone in the Republic that he's a Sith who's been secretly orchestrating the war?

Because Sidious isn't an idiot.

Better yet, why wouldn't they recall Yoda, Obi-Wan, and all the other Jedi from those distant planets so they could help kill Sidious?

That would take time because this isn't Game of Thrones and there's still fighting going on where those Jedi are posted.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Hey, I loved the Fives storyline. This hurts

I loved the old BF2 storyline even more. Also, it makes no sense that Rex knows about Fives but didn't tell anyone afterwards. If anything, Rex knowing would've led to him talking to his clone commander/captain buddies, and they'll all get that chip out of their brains, then repeat the process with their troops, to the point where, by the time Creamy Sheev gives out Order 66, it doesn't work.

It's just a lot less complicated and a lot easier to explain if the Clone Army was just that loyal. None of this chip business.

But the assassination attempt was indicative of their arrogance. Why wouldn't they lure Sidious to a public place where they could show everyone in the Republic that he's a Sith who's been secretly orchestrating the war? Better yet, why wouldn't they recall Yoda, Obi-Wan, and all the other Jedi from those distant planets so they could help kill Sidious?

The assassination attempt would still end up backfiring if they did kill Sidious. Especially since Anakin and the Clone Army are still loyal to him; the former wants Sidious alive so he can talk about those juicy Sith secrets, and the Clone Army was trained by Jango to be loyal to the Republic leader, not the Jedi. If anything, Jango wanted the Jedi dead for killing his people, and willingly trained his clones to choose the Republic over the Jedi if something like this happened, just so there'd be an off chance his progeny would eradicate his hated enemies.

Just imagine the political blowback if the Jedi did kill Sidious. The Jedi release a public statement that Sidious was a Sith Lord and that he masterminded the Clone Wars, but given Palpatine's popularity, neither the Clone Army nor the Senate would buy that for a minute. The Clone Army was loyal to Palpatine to the end, and the Senate kept electing him to power even after his term limits expired. Best case scenario, the Senate strips the Jedi of all their legal powers and banishes them from Coruscant; worst-case scenario, the Senate appoints an Interim Chancellor who then issues Order 66 to the Clone Army, and the Clone Army eradicates the Jedi Order.

 

[Space Police]

Also, it makes no sense that Rex knows about Fives but didn't tell anyone afterwards. If anything, Rex knowing would've led to him talking to his clone commander/captain buddies, and they'll all get that chip out of their brains, to the point where by the time Creamy Sheev gives out Order 66, it doesn't work.

That would have gotten Rex killed as well, and nothing about it would have been taken seriously even by a few Jedi who could potentially help the clones. Imagine how Cody would have reacted.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

That would have gotten Rex killed as well, and nothing about it would have been taken seriously even by a few Jedi who could potentially help the clones. Imagine how Cody would have reacted.

Killed by who? Rex could just talk privately with other Clone Commanders about what Fives said. Then each commander spreads that to their troops.

 

[Space Police]

Killed by who?

A Sith trap or clone troopers who value the Republic over the Jedi.

Rex could just talk privately with other Clone Commanders about what Fives said. Then each commander spreads that to their troops.

What if that information got into the wrong hands and it could all be traced back to Rex?

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

A Sith trap or clone troopers who value the Republic over the Jedi.

Like what? TCW didn't have Clone Assassins.

What if that information got into the wrong hands and it could all be traced back to Rex?

It would still spread like wildfire to the point where killing Rex won't make a difference.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I can't believe anybody actually thinks that the gay fucking brain chips are a good idea to add to the lore. It's elementary school storytelling. "And then all of our clone friends turned bad... because the evil Chancellor Lightning made the angry chip in their brain turn them into bads!"
Compared to say "And then their literal lifetime composed only of indoctrination and war made them betray their commanders who were part of a plot to assassinate the chancellor based only on an accusation with no evidence."
The brain chips are fucking stupid and it's solely because Feloni wanted an out for his precious OCs.

 

[Cactuar King]

I can't believe anybody actually thinks that the gay fucking brain chips are a good idea to add to the lore. It's elementary school storytelling. "And then all of our clone friends turned bad... because the evil Chancellor Lightning made the angry chip in their brain turn them into bads!"
Compared to say "And then their literal lifetime composed only of indoctrination and war made them betray their commanders who were part of a plot to assassinate the chancellor based only on an accusation with no evidence."
The brain chips are fucking stupid and it's solely because Feloni wanted an out for his precious OCs.

Can't paint the clones in a bad light, can we? They have to be ickle victims who dindu nuffin wrong, not really.

 

[Gondolindrim]

I can't believe anybody actually thinks that the gay fucking brain chips are a good idea to add to the lore. It's elementary school storytelling. "And then all of our clone friends turned bad... because the evil Chancellor Lightning made the angry chip in their brain turn them into bads!"
Compared to say "And then their literal lifetime composed only of indoctrination and war made them betray their commanders who were part of a plot to assassinate the chancellor based only on an accusation with no evidence."
The brain chips are fucking stupid and it's solely because Feloni wanted an out for his precious OCs.

On this we are agreed. The brain chips rob the clones of their agency, they CHOSE to betray the Jedi. We know that because (in legends) many of them didn't go through with it.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

You know, here's a thought about Filoni's stupid fucking chips.
When activated, Clones try to kill Jedi without any sort of restraint, right? Like, they just start blasting even if the Jedi were their friends in Filoni's retard wonderland.
Then how is that supposed to work with Anakin?
Doesn't he order for Order 66 shortly after killing Mace?
Wouldn't Anakin's clones think he's a Jedi and start blasting him?
Did Palpatine specifically have it coded in to the chips not to kill Anakin?
Did Palpatine send a skype call saying "saying Order 66, oh except Anakin?" somehow?
It's fucking stupid for it to be some sort of galaxy-wide on-switch for making the clones go nuts and not just their orders and makes so many more questions than it solves.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

You know, here's a thought about Filoni's stupid fucking chips.
When activated, Clones try to kill Jedi without any sort of restraint, right? Like, they just start blasting even if the Jedi were their friends in Filoni's retard wonderland.
Then how is that supposed to work with Anakin?
Doesn't he order for Order 66 shortly after killing Mace?
Wouldn't Anakin's clones think he's a Jedi and start blasting him?
Did Palpatine specifically have it coded in to the chips not to kill Anakin?
Did Palpatine send a skype call saying "saying Order 66, oh except Anakin?" somehow?
It's fucking stupid for it to be some sort of galaxy-wide on-switch for making the clones go nuts and not just their orders and makes so many more questions than it solves.

It got so bad that the Clone Shocktroopers in one of the comics tried to shoot Darth Vader when they saw him brandish a lightsaber, and a Jedi survivor managed to use a mind trick to "Execute Order 66" and get a bunch of clones to shoot at some ex-Jedi Inquisitors in another comic.

Which is why it makes more sense if Order 66 worked as a contingency order that the Clone Army was well-aware of from the start, instead of a Sith conspiracy with mindhack chips. At least that way, Palpatine can just say "Order 66, except Anakin, he's Lord Vader now, and he's your new Supreme Commander" and the clones would understand. Their brains weren't hacked, they're operating just fine as it is, and they've been given the order to kill all Jedi save for one, who is now their new top general.

There's even parts of the Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader novel where the 501st Legion know who Anakin/Vader is, and when he comes out wearing the black armor, they're actually relieved, because they never understood why Jedi waddled into battle wearing bathrobes when wearing armor was an option. Then Tarkin later on talks to Palpatine about how most people think Vader is a former Jedi who helped with the counterstrike against the Jedi Order, which obviously comes from the fact that a dude wearing Jedi robes and brandishing a Jedi lightsaber was leading the Clone Army against the Jedi Order on Coruscant, and Tarkin even notes that such rumors started from the special-ops legions that besieged the Jedi Temple and saw Anakin up-close, killing Jedi left and right.

I can't believe anybody actually thinks that the gay fucking brain chips are a good idea to add to the lore. It's elementary school storytelling. "And then all of our clone friends turned bad... because the evil Chancellor Lightning made the angry chip in their brain turn them into bads!"
Compared to say "And then their literal lifetime composed only of indoctrination and war made them betray their commanders who were part of a plot to assassinate the chancellor based only on an accusation with no evidence."
The brain chips are fucking stupid and it's solely because Feloni wanted an out for his precious OCs.

With Filoni's storytelling, it creates more problems than it solves. With the original way it was, it showed the dangers of indoctrinating child soldiers and how that indoctrination sticks with them even as they grow up.

Filoni just destroyed the complex lore of the clones just because he can't possibly let them be associated with the Empire-to the point where he has Tarkin be clone-phobic in the Bad Batch cartoons, when in reality, Tarkin was Jedi-phobic and didn't really care about the fact that Vader was still using a purely-clone 501st Legion as the Empire's top strike force. Hell, in Rise of Darth Vader, Emperor Palpatine was honoring the Clone Army in one of his speeches, telling Imperials to follow in their footsteps and remember the valiant example of the clones who gave their lives for the New Order. The dude literally made the deceased members of the Clone Army into the Empire's Saints.

 

[Felis Meanis]

NERD ALERT!

Have any of you read about the concept in Star Wars lore of "Tràkata" (canon and legends)?

I just struck me as so comical that this quite obvious and practical technique of lightsaber combat is not used frequently, and from what I believe I've read about it before, is largely frowned upon by those who use lighsabers for mostly "ethical" reasons. As if two lightsaber combatants would shun victory over "ethical usage of laser swords".

From this Reddit-thread they mention "force walls" as being a possible inhibitor for this kind of technique, but I dunno. Switching your lightsaber off in mid-strike is apparently a recognized and usuable technique in both canon and legends.

Seeing as a lightsaber is mostly a retractable beam of plasma, I reckon the usability of retracting the beam only to reactivate it in a favorable position would be an absolutely basic application of lightsaber-combat.
It's kind of like how one might question why the wizards in the world of Harry Potter don't use firearms. Yes, there is the deadly incantation of The Killing Curse, but if you just use a gun, you can utilize the same effect without having to learn about complex, mystical magic.

For the most part though, I believe that the universe of Star Wars keeps the "suspension of disbelief" amongst its audience intact, but when concepts such as Tràkata are brought about, one is faced with an obvious shortcoming of a fundamental part of the lore.

To be completely honest, lightsabers as a whole don't make much sense either. Why would you ever restrict yourself to a melee-weapon in an age of technology where faster-than-lightspeed is possible? It's kind of like how they use melee-weapons in Warhammer 40k. It looks cool and it's awesome, sure, but it also don't make much sense, unless you really go into the nitty-gritty of the lore and maintain your suspension of disbelief.

 

[Male Idiot]

To be completely honest, lightsabers as a whole don't make much sense either. Why would you ever restrict yourself to a melee-weapon in an age of technology where faster-than-lightspeed is possible? It's kind of like how they use melee-weapons in Warhammer 40k. It looks cool and it's awesome, sure, but it also don't make much sense, unless you really go into the nitty-gritty of the lore and maintain your suspension of disbelief.

It is because neither use real world logic and have different physics or abilities that supercede it.

The switchoff debate just happened a few pages ago. It was said that its a risky move, its not instant. Just look it up.

Lightsabers can, with the help of Force-boost, be used to repel ranged weapons. It can use more power than a gun. So it is useful, it is a sword and anti-ranged weapon shield both at once. Warhammer's melee weapons are mostly used by superhuman creatures who get way more out of it due to being super strong. Same reason as why Mega Muscle superheroes go around punching people. Works for them better than a human. You can't reflect bullets in real life unlike a Jedi, or cut a tank in half like a Space Marine. People just don't have the skills and strength and speed.

Yes I know what a Dark trooper is, even when the EU couldn't make their minds up if they were droids, crippled troopers, both. They come in flavours ranging from Magnaguard like murder droid to a kind of space marine like heavy armoured trooper with a big rifle.

 

[Felis Meanis]

The switchoff debate just happened a few pages ago. It was said that its a risky move, its not instant. Just look it up.

The deep nerd-lore has awsome roots indeed! :-)

Lightsabers can, with the help of Force-boost, be used to repel ranged weapons. It can use more power than a gun. So it is useful, it is a sword and anti-ranged weapon shield both at once. Warhammer's melee weapons are mostly used by superhuman creatures who get way more out of it due to being super strong. Same reason as why Mega Muscle superheroes go around punching people. Works for them better than a human. You can't reflect bullets in real life unlike a Jedi, or cut a tank in half like a Space Marine. People just don't have the skills and strength and speed.

Thanks for informing me of some of the core concepts regarding this type of weaponry in our favourite nerd-lore. It's always fun to digest these various quirks of the lore of our cherished Sci-Fi/Fantasy-franchises.

 

[Space Police]

Did Palpatine send a skype call saying "saying Order 66, oh except Anakin?" somehow?

I'd imagine he told this to the 501st Legion members that were on Coruscant and the commanders spread it to the other clones.

 

[Godzilla@1989]

 

[ZMOT]

Why would you ever restrict yourself to a melee-weapon in an age of technology where faster-than-lightspeed is possible

wait till you see what happens when an enemy gets close. there's a reason even with all the guns military still trains you to cave someone's head in with a trenching tool.

the more logical question is "why even have armies fighting each other in person when they can glass the planet from orbit".

anyway it's an entertainment product, rule of cool and all. don't think too much about it.