Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[Symbol of the Chud]

Kreia is a stupid bitch but that's kind of the point. You actually understood one thing that many people also miss about Kotor II, Kreia IS a fucking retard. She's just really good at fooling people into thinking she isn't. But if you really pay attention to her viewpoint and everything she says you realize she's full of shit. In fact, that's the point.

I don't think Avellone intended that to be the point.
He wrote Kreia like he wrote Ulysses, where any attempted rebuttal you make to him in FNV is basically the equivalent of "Well I'm a shit eating retard, but I think you are wrong."
Make no mistake, Avellone wants you to agree with his lecture giving oc.
He's just such a colossal faggot he makes them act like retarded caricatures anyway.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

I don't think Avellone intended that to be the point.
He wrote Kreia like he wrote Ulysses, where any attempted rebuttal you make to him in FNV is basically the equivalent of "Well I'm a shit eating retard, but I think you are wrong."
Make no mistake, Avellone wants you to agree with his lecture giving oc.
He's just such a colossal faggot he makes them act like retarded caricatures anyway.

Ulysses and Kreia also share the Avellone character trait where even if you agree with part of what they're saying they're so far up their own respective asses that they're right for the wrong reasons to the point that they're back to being wrong again.

 

[Ghostse]

The initial films kind of make sense. You can drop the xenomorph onto rebels, and they only lost 1 cargo ship, 1 outpost and 1 prison.

The Alien eu and the Jurassic park can get autistic.
Yeah a raptor could sell to Ngumba the African warlord who is getting bored of feeding his captives to lions, but it isn't something that any modern army would care about.

Yeah, dino weapons are dumb because you have no plausible deniability vs. sneaking a few facehuggers into a container marked "DO NOT OPEN: SUPER VALUABLE UNTRACEABLE CARGO INSIDE (plus straight up cash, coke, weed, booze and porn)" shipping it to the place you want to get fucked up, and just waiting for nature to take its course.

 

[Adamska]

Yeah, dino weapons are dumb because you have no plausible deniability vs. sneaking a few facehuggers into a container marked "DO NOT OPEN: SUPER VALUABLE UNTRACEABLE CARGO INSIDE (plus straight up cash, coke, weed, booze and porn)" shipping it to the place you want to get fucked up, and just waiting for nature to take its course.

Dino weapons are dumb because they cost millions to make due to the price of genesplicing and recombination, oh and the price tags required to make in large batches meaning you need to make a genetics lab. While also doing this as a black site, which further raises cost. Then the training required to make them react to their handlers takes time and further money. It then gets even more retarded when you remember that they are not given listed commands or scents to chase for; they are sent to kill mode with a fucking gun that shoots a laser that makes them ree towards you.

And I don't give a rotten fuck what excuses they tried to cook up to make their dino bulletproof; that was Director based copium after getting mocked into a rage. It's horseshit and a 20 - 30mm cannon would still put that fucker down if the .50 cal for whatever reason from a heavy rifle doesn't.

At least in Star Wars, the dinos had guns.

 

[GlupShitto]

Ok so I should confess something
View attachment 6922762
I did not care for the Clone Troopers

I am talking all iterations, from those in the prequel movies to those in the Clone Wars cartoon(s), to those in Clone Commando and beyond. In fact I found them annoying each and every time the work tried to make them into unique characters or to go ever further lengths in humanising them and individualising them.

I don't take issue with the general concept of the clone army per se, but feel that making them friendly and cuddly and lovable individuals and mostly best frens with the Jedi until the magic chip in their noggin made them kill niggers said Jedi was fluffy bullshit that cheapened how they were essentially biological robots raised from birth to be sociopathic super-soldiers with zero regard for their own lives and send into the meatgrinder to die in their millions/billions.

I am aware this side of things was not entirely unexplored in nu/old EU but as it stands they strike me as a wasted opportunity to show just how bleak the war was from the start and just how nastily ole Sheev was corrupting the Republic into the Empire with them acting like soulless killing machines from the getgo only barely tempered and restrained by the Jedi leading them until the inevitable betrayal, and would have slid nicely into their ultimate evolution into Stormtroopers before that shit was retconned.

I think the issue is that George was making a children's movie and later children's cartoon, so he didn't want to delve too far into the philosophy of creating a brainwashed slave army

 

[GlupShitto]

Especially considering the fact that Disney SW has convinced most people that Stormtroopers are useless buffoons.

Han Solo did the shoulder tap distraction move on a trooper who Palpatine claimed was one of the best the Imperial Navy had to offer (the imperials in/around the shield generator). So either Palpatine was lying to Luke (unlikely) or the comedy cannon fodder guys have been comedy cannon fodder guys since ROTJ. It's part of why I like the PT more, there's nothing that stupid or goofy with the clones.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Han Solo did the shoulder tap distraction move on a trooper who Palpatine claimed was one of the best the Imperial Navy had to offer (the imperials in/around the shield generator). So either Palpatine was lying to Luke (unlikely) or the comedy cannon fodder guys have been comedy cannon fodder guys since ROTJ. It's part of why I like the PT more, there's nothing that stupid or goofy with the clones.

But there are a few moments with the droids.
"We're taking these prisoners to Coruscant."
"Coruscant.....uh......wait.....um.......YOU'RE UNDER ARREST!"

I don't think Avellone intended that to be the point.
He wrote Kreia like he wrote Ulysses, where any attempted rebuttal you make to him in FNV is basically the equivalent of "Well I'm a shit eating retard, but I think you are wrong."
Make no mistake, Avellone wants you to agree with his lecture giving oc.
He's just such a colossal faggot he makes them act like retarded caricatures anyway.

The difference is, KOTOR 2 the game NEEDS you to disagree with Kreia if you want to unlock the higher power tree. You cannot unlock the prestige classes unless you go full Light or Dark, and one way or another you will disappoint her. You literally handicap yourself if you agree with her and only her.

Whereas the game doesn't punish you in FNV if you agree with Ulysses. Hell, you can launch the nukes at the NCR the way he wanted, or nuke both sides, and you even get cool armors as a reward. So the best thing to do is to either do what Ulysses wants with the nukes, or go one step further and nuke both sides, and the game rewards you with game-breaking unique armor suits.

KOTOR 2 punishes you for agreeing with Kreia and remaining gray, whereas the game rewards you in FNV if you do what Ulysses wants or take it even further.

 

[Male Idiot]

Yeah, dino weapons are dumb because you have no plausible deniability vs. sneaking a few facehuggers into a container marked "DO NOT OPEN: SUPER VALUABLE UNTRACEABLE CARGO INSIDE (plus straight up cash, coke, weed, booze and porn)" shipping it to the place you want to get fucked up, and just waiting for nature to take its course.

Yeah it was retarded.
Dinosaurs were made with modern armies (not) in mind. At best they could be exotic pets for rich people, like have Trump buy a T-rex to ride. They are normal animals and highly stand out so every modern day glowie would just use poison instead, and chucking a raptor at a T-90 or Abrams is retarded.

The Xenomorph was compact, easy to deliver, and way more lethal than any terran life form. The fucker grows up in a few days. It is a great terror weapon.

You don't see armies bother with that, but for a shady megacorp it could be worth a pretty penny, it is an alien in space, where aliens come from.

It is like how a Tauntaun makes sense for Hoth if you are a cash strapped rebel. Or a local garrison on Tatooine using dewbacks for a cheap buck.

But you don't see Speeder Inc getting ousted by Tauntauns or the Imps using dewbacks instead of ATATs on Hoth.

 

[ZMOT]

Dino weapons are dumb because they cost millions to make due to the price of genesplicing and recombination, oh and the price tags required to make in large batches meaning you need to make a genetics lab. While also doing this as a black site, which further raises cost. Then the training required to make them react to their handlers takes time and further money. It then gets even more retarded when you remember that they are not given listed commands or scents to chase for; they are sent to kill mode with a fucking gun that shoots a laser that makes them ree towards you.

in jurassic park the military didn't fund everything, they just added money so the overall thing can happen. it's also somewhat of a not unreasonable trope that the military has endless funds and is willing to spend a lot on weapons, so price isn't the issue (training a pilot and putting him in a fighter plane isn't cheap either), governments spend money on all kinds of stupid shit really.

iirc the argument was also to use them as some form of attack dog/special ops (think he even specifically mentioned taliban tunnels or something), not in a direct military confrontation, same way you wouldn't bring a tank into the mountains.

in the end it was just a silly "bad guy" explanation, there's still some sensible logic behind it tho all things considered.

 

[Adamska]

in jurassic park the military didn't fund everything, they just added money so the overall thing can happen. it's also somewhat of a not unreasonable trope that the military has endless funds and is willing to spend a lot on weapons, so price isn't the issue (training a pilot and putting him in a fighter plane isn't cheap either), governments spend money on all kinds of stupid shit really.

iirc the argument was also to use them as some form of attack dog/special ops (think he even specifically mentioned taliban tunnels or something), not in a direct military confrontation, same way you wouldn't bring a tank into the mountains.

in the end it was just a silly "bad guy" explanation, there's still some sensible logic behind it tho all things considered.

In the first World? It's still dumb as dogshit, it just pales in intellectual malfeasance compared to its sequels. Sure, using the by this point figured out genetically raptors means they're now cheaper to make since the costs were already factored, but they still require a full lab set up to make, which is expensive compared to boot camp.

It also legitimately took years to just get four of the fuckers to obey commands, and they only did so for Owen. They are hard to train and surly due to their intelligence; this is actually a big reason why Moose never got used for shit like war. The Swedes tried that, and the moose just refused to coopereate. A lot of animals do not handle stress like active combat well.

And then there's the actual pants shitting retardery that the monologue by security guy had. He was braindead enough to think one raptor was worth a squad of trained soldiers in combat value. He also genuinely wanted them to replace drones.

It's pure copium by the director, made manifest when he made the man sized serial killer one bullet proof for plot horseshit reasons.

 

[Shekelslovakia]

In the first World? It's still dumb as dogshit, it just pales in intellectual malfeasance compared to its sequels. Sure, using the by this point figured out genetically raptors means they're now cheaper to make since the costs were already factored, but they still require a full lab set up to make, which is expensive compared to boot camp.

It also legitimately took years to just get four of the fuckers to obey commands, and they only did so for Owen. They are hard to train and surly due to their intelligence; this is actually a big reason why Moose never got used for shit like war. The Swedes tried that, and the moose just refused to coopereate. A lot of animals do not handle stress like active combat well.

And then there's the actual pants shitting retardery that the monologue by security guy had. He was braindead enough to think one raptor was worth a squad of trained soldiers in combat value. He also genuinely wanted them to replace drones.

It's pure copium by the director, made manifest when he made the man sized serial killer one bullet proof for plot horseshit reasons.

Can we just not go by real world logic in just pretend that they are useful for war? I mean being able to send a pack of raptors into a military stronghold through a secret passage sounds like a pretty kino idea to me.

 

[Adamska]

Can we just not go by real world logic in just pretend that they are useful for war? I mean being able to send a pack of raptors into a military stronghold through a secret passage sounds like a pretty kino idea to me.

Nah, because that tolerance for slop because "cool computer action figure smashing" is how you get crap like the Monsterverse. Idiots defend movies that are 80% insufferably shit since it's horrid acting and boredom, and because of that why bother to make a good film when only 15 minutes at best are going to be liked and forgotten.

Also the OG film and even the worse sequels tried to at least play with some realism in effect.

 

[Space Police]

Can we just not go by real world logic in just pretend that they are useful for war? I mean being able to send a pack of raptors into a military stronghold through a secret passage sounds like a pretty kino idea to me.

As much as I tend to abide by rule of cool over all else, you need to create your own rules for your universe at the outset and follow them or else it comes across as dumb, flashy noise. If dinosaurs are useful for war, then come up with an involved and nuanced explanation (I don't care about "plot armor" or whatever here).

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

As much as I tend to abide by rule of cool over all else, you need to create your own rules for your universe at the outset and follow them or else it comes across as dumb, flashy noise. If dinosaurs are useful for war, then come up with an involved and nuanced explanation (I don't care about "plot armor" or whatever here).

Robot dinosaurs are useful for war, as Transformers has shown. Thick armor would allow them to withstand AA rounds, while their insane strength would allow them to rip tanks up like it's a joke. Mount missile launchers and artillery on them, and they could decimate aircraft squadrons and tank battalions at will.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Robot dinosaurs are useful for war, as Transformers has shown. Thick armor would allow them to withstand AA rounds, while their insane strength would allow them to rip tanks up like it's a joke. Mount missile launchers and artillery on them, and they could decimate aircraft squadrons and tank battalions at will.

It's really the robot part that's valuable. The dinosaur part, not as much.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It's really the robot part that's valuable. The dinosaur part, not as much.

A robot shaped like a dinosaur. Imagine Grimlock from G1 Transformers or Fall of Cybertron, but with rockets and artillery.

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

A robot shaped like a dinosaur. Imagine Grimlock from G1 Transformers or Fall of Cybertron, but with rockets and artillery.

Eh, all the things a robot human can do as well.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Eh, all the things a robot human can do as well.

The fear factor is stronger with a dinobot. Although I suppose you can design something like the Master Gundam or the Psycho Gundam that would be man-shaped but also fearsome.

 

[Ghostse]

Robots shaped like Dinos I'm ok with. Its still sort of dumb but you could even just chalk it up to "Our death robots are dinosaurs because the crazy autist who designed them really liked Dinosaurs and everyone is copying his designs & the AI flips out when its not in a robot with two hindlimbs, two fore limbs, a head and a tail" so I'm willing to grant the Rule of Cool.
Imagine Japanese Elon Musk but instead of weed its Dinobots.

But large military organsims make zero sense unless you are doing something like WWI calvary but dinos. Or if you go to a soylent green sort of dystopia with "Literally fuck the rabble, unleash the T-Rex squad to clear the square" (which now that I think about it would be kinda rad)

 

[Space Police]

But large military organsims make zero sense unless you are doing something like WWI calvary but dinos.

Why not? You'd be able to kill lots of people without having to answer for human rights violations or hold prisoners of war.