Trade War 2025 - You get tariffs and you get tariffs, tariffs for everyone!

Basic revolving cash flow is good economics, something we haven’t had in a long time. One of the few times “keeping it in the family” is a great idea.
Tariffs like this aren’t meant to make the government more money, it’s to force industry to localize here.

He isn't saying the tariffs are anything to do with business. He says it's because Mexico and Canada aren't stopping drugs in some some of nebulous way that he wants them to. I suppose he could be playing big-brained 4d chess, but I don't think this is a smart move either way

I'm a Trump supporter, and most of his other moves have been great. But this fast jump to 25% tariffs is fucking retarded. If this were about business, drop the corporate tax to 1% and see the companies flood back. You catch more flies with honey than shit.
 
While I agree, we won’t given the short amount of time we have to have effective change. A perfect plan executed too late isn’t optimal. I hate being rash and bullish but I don’t think there’s any other way to get there.
I don’t think it will ever happen the way it should
My concern is this rashness turns four years of potential action into two. Trump is in a unique position because his second term led to the Republicans gaining more power and control of Congress, making him stronger instead of a lame duck. Instead of having nothing he can do, he's got nothing to lose.

However, if the Republicans lose control of the House or Senate due to economic hardship or severe inflation in 2026, it's game over. They'll also likely obstruct any appointments to the judicial branch up to the SCOTUS.

Congress also needs to get its shit together and start pushing actual legislation to lock in populist, meritocratic policies by law. Every single outstanding EO in the history of the United States could be repealed by the next President, they are not a sound foundation for real reform.
 
I think it'll be similar to Colombia, announce something big to get a fast reaction, in this case it has gone into effect before they talked it out but I wouldn't expect the tarrifs to last more than six months.
That's my other concern, laying too many cards on the table up front. He should have focused on Mexico 100% for illegal immigration, drugs and cartel violence and waited for the new government in Canada to see how amenable they were to his policies and concerns about trade and border issues.

The handling of the situation in Colombia shows this stick approach can work and deliver results.

I have a feeling Trump is very concerned (and very rightfully pissed) about being fucked over and backstabbed like he was in his last term and is acting fast as a result, but he needs to take a breather and consolidate first.
 
I think it'll be similar to Colombia, announce something big to get a fast reaction, in this case it has gone into effect before they talked it out but I wouldn't expect the tarrifs to last more than six months.

I agree that Mexico and Canada won't "win" this supposed trade war. That's a stupid fucking take I'm seeing out there, I think you're right in that they will capitulate for whatever it is Trump wants eventually (whatever that actually really is). But I just don't see any wisdom in fucking over your closest allies, and doing it within two weeks of being in power. I think you're right, maybe 6 months is how long they'll last, but what kind of inflationary damage will happen in the meantime, and how long might the echoes last. Like Agamemnon says, it's a dangerous game. If fuel prices spike in reaction to this, lower income people are going to start griping, and the left will get their fingers under that crack and lift.

If they'd been negotiating for whatever it is he wants for 6 months then the tariff's appear, then fair enough. But he's actually putting them in place, less than three weeks after taking office, and it's not clear what he actually wants them to do? Stop fentanyl production or something? How the hell are tariff's supposed to do that?

Lets hope it's posturing and he backs off before Tuesday, but I'm not holding my breath
 
The Canadian gorlies on reddit are all piss mad about Sephora being an American company. Some say "pleaaaase don't buy any makeups from the US'!!!" and some are dying that their pretties won't be as accessable. Truly a first world problem. Will this be Canadas wakeup call to realize women aren't just men with makeup on, or will all the leafs crumble under the weight of going barefaced? (Sorry my sisters up north)
 
The Canadian gorlies on reddit are all piss mad about Sephora being an American company. Some say "pleaaaase don't buy any makeups from the US'!!!" and some are dying that their pretties won't be as accessable. Truly a first world problem. Will this be Canadas wakeup call to realize women aren't just men with makeup on, or will all the leafs crumble under the weight of going barefaced? (Sorry my sisters up north)
M•A•C is Canadian, why aren't they buying from them?
 
TDS has gotten so flagarant that ree-ing retards, despite being obessed with this man for a decade, can't even understand that this is just another page in Trump's playbook. He's done it in real estate, he's done it in business, he even did it to a lesser extent in his first term. This is classic anchoring/brinkmanship. Give me an updoot in a few months when Canadians and faggot redditors are smugposting that they called Drumpf's bluff and got him to back down and only have to pay a 10% tariff. Take that, chuds.
Are the Canadians paying the tariff? And what concessions do you think he is trying to get from Canada & Mexico?
 
waited for the new government in Canada to see how amenable they were to his policies and concerns about trade and border issues
The Conservative party is going to win the next elections, but the elections are scheduled eight months from now. I think things will drag out with Canada because of this.
Trudeau has announced he will resign once the Liberals have a new leader but no one wants to be leader for just a few months and loose right away. The Liberals have no legitimacy and whatever happens until the election will likely get overturned or renegociated. So effectively Canada has no real goverment apparatus to deal with Trump. The best scenario would be to call for snap elections and have the new government handle it.

But I just don't see any wisdom in fucking over your closest allies, and doing it within two weeks of being in power.
Trump is an American chauvinist, he wants what's best for America, last mandate was at the expense of China and somewhat of Europe, now he's taking what he can from closer allies. I've seen Europeans be skeptical of Trump the same way Canadians are reacting now.
 
My predictions, which could be totally wrong:
  • The Chinese tariffs are here to stay. If anything, they may increase over time. This is to wean off dependency on China (who Trump views as an inevitable enemy) and to bring manufacturing back to the US.
  • The tariffs against Canada and Mexico are not going to last long - less than three months, IMO. Trump just wants to humble their politicians and browbeat them into becoming more cooperative. Similar to how Colombia was dealt with.
    • After the next Canadian federal election (soon!), Prime Minister Pierre Poilievre will be very amenable to Trump's agenda. As for the Mexican government, I can't imagine them defying Trump for long; they're simply too unstable and reliant upon the US.
What is Trump's agenda? It's kinda surreal, but I really do think he's pursuing "Manifest Destiny" to Make America Great Again™. His overt interest in Greenland, the Panama Canal, and the Northwest Passage all support the idea.

If that's the case, he'll want to mould Canada & Mexico into obedient vassals/protectorates, with the ultimate goal of turning North America into a fortress firmly under the control of the US. IIRC, he's already talked about expanding NORAD into a continent-wide "Iron Dome".
  • The cartels will need to be eliminated or brought to heel. So... we might have a "war" coming in the next year or two. US + Mexico vs the cartels. It lines up with Trump citing the fentanyl crisis as a primary reason for these new tariffs.
(This is all extremely ambitious and could easily end up being a disaster. Will Trump succeed? I think it'll depend on how much progress he makes - and what the economy looks like - before the midterm elections in two years.)
 
What is Trump's agenda? It's kinda surreal, but I really do think he's pursuing "Manifest Destiny" to Make America Great Again™. His overt interest in Greenland, the Panama Canal, and the Northwest Passage all support the idea.
Manifest Destiny is what Trump wants. It's become more and more clear in the last few months that he wants America to expand. Why? Obvious ones are military and strategic.

But further than that, he wants America to survive. Personally I believe he thinks we need more natural wealth than we already have to pull ourselves out of the massive government debt and unfuck the economy.

Furthermore, there is a humanitarian reason. Canadians live under a tyrant government. Why should the US allow it?
 
The tariffs against Canada and Mexico are not going to last long - less than three months, IMO. Trump just wants to humble their politicians and browbeat them into becoming more cooperative
I've seen people mention that Trump also wants to prevent China from using Canada or Mexico to bypass the tarrifs. There were similar talks a few years ago when China exported steel to Canada and it was then rebranded as canadian steel and sold to the US.
 
Sorry, call me a pessimist, but starting a trade war with 2 close trade partners after running on a campaign of "we'll make things cheap", over very vague demands about primarily social problems, is probably the single worst decision a president has made in my lifetime. You know the one universal thing everyone gives a fuck about? Money, and this is exactly what's going to make people freak out.

Look up Reagan and Volker, 1981-1982. They frontloaded the expected pain of fighting inflation explicitly so that it would be done and forgotten by the next Presidential election. It lost them some seats in the 1982 election, but once inflation was finally broken it cemented the right's economic credentials for decades. Reagan got a 49 state landslide in 1984.

I won't say Trump is rushing into it for exactly the same reason, he's also rushing into literally everything else since Jan 20th. But I think it'll even out to the same effect. His trade war with NAFTA partners and China was done in roughly 2 years during his 1st admin, and things had settled down for a short period before Covid hit. Now he's got practice, and the other countries know he's serious (and furious). I think he'll pull it off, the GOP will lose a bit of ground in the midterms, and come 2028 Vance will have economic numbers to brag about when he runs.
 
As I said on the USPG thread: The United States and Trump can stay retarded way longer than Canada and Mexico can stay afloat. By the time the tariffs actually start hurting Americans Mexico and Canada will have taken hundreds of billions worth of loss and and be on the edge of complete economic collapse, if not already into full economic implosion.
Just looking at canada, I don't think there is much risk that Americans will hurt all that much.
Canadian imports are ~10% of all US imports, and there were already tariffs in place since a long time on the majority of volume imports from canada, like construction material and timbre.
Trump merely increased existing tariffs by ~15%.
So, 15% of 10% means at worst this would impact imports by 1.5%. I am pretty sure that US can deal with that increase indefinitely without too much trouble, especially after dealing with near 20% year on year inflation for several years in a row.

Now, this 1.5% in increased cost for imports, it should be taken into account that the vast majority of goods and services consumed in the US are produced domestically, so the real impact on the canadian tariffs is way less than 1%, more likely to be in the range 0.2-0.5%. The us can keep these tariffs indefinitely. Most people will never even notice the change in cost due to the impact of the tariffs being completely dwarfed by other factors such as inflation.


But then again, I see people that claim that the cost of Avocado will now go up 25% immediately.
Because US depends on imports from Canada for Avocados. Really? REALLY? Canada is a major exporter of Avocado to the US?
 
What is Trump's agenda? It's kinda surreal, but I really do think he's pursuing "Manifest Destiny" to Make America Great Again™. His overt interest in Greenland, the Panama Canal, and the Northwest Passage all support the idea.

Allegedly there could be real "strategic importance" correlated with controlling Greenland, beyond just "expanding American territory". China has its own material interests there, so some political analysts are considering this to be just an extension of Trump's war against China.

There's been a bit of a wave of whitewashing China's government and actions since Trump got into office, and this naturally will only be more good PR/optics for them, since America's interests in Greenland will be considered "belligerent" while China's will be considered "cooperative". Their strategic interests in the territory are similar (the entire Arctic is rich in natural resources), but China is paying lip service to "investing in" and "helping" Greenland while Trump is straight-up saying "we'll conquer them and make them part of the USA!"

The Chinese tariffs are here to stay. If anything, they may increase over time. This is to wean off dependency on China (who Trump views as an inevitable enemy) and to bring manufacturing back to the US

International relations scholars are actually predicting an increase in isolationism overall, based on recent elections in Europe. What I found most interesting about the China decoupling thing was that, even though it was one of the policies that Trump's detractors seemed to harp on the most (liberal international relations theory means decoupling should be avoided at all cost if you want to make friends, and the "way forward" is instead to rope former enemies into the global embrace of free trade and capitalism), Harris' program didn't seem much friendlier toward China at all. In fact, Biden hardly did anything to ease the tariff war with China during his tenure.

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An added fun thing:

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IIRC effective corporate tax has been decreasing for the last 30+ years, both due to legal loopholes and IRS being defunded constantly.

This is interesting to me, an AI I asked tells me your absolutely right, the effective rate is indeed somewhere between 8-13%. It's still not low enough though, Ireland is somewhere between 3-6%, although that is increasing. China is around 15%, Europe is roughly around 18-20% and the UK is 15-17%

There's also the environmental red tape, and other bullshit. My point being is that IF the real reason for this is to attract business, instead of beating up other countries to attract companies, which probably won't work, they should make the USA more attractive.

Heck, how about this, if your workforce is 100% American born, with a 2nd generation minimum, you give them a 3 year corporate tax break altogether. Or how about if you can prove your supply chain is 100% American from mine to store shelves, you get a 100% corporate tax break
 
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