Culture In Defense of Free Market Radicalism - "Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself"

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In Defense of Free Market Radicalism​


01/31/2025•Mises WirePatrick Carroll

Most people’s first exposure to economics occurs in their 7th grade social studies class, or at least somewhere in that vicinity, then high school seniors often take it in high school. To introduce students to the topic, the teacher explains that there are three main approaches a country can take: socialism, capitalism, or an in-between system that gets labeled a “mixed economy.”

The teacher then goes on to explain the merits and demerits of each system. Since the teacher is usually biased, one of the alternatives is inevitably painted as the most favorable one. In my own experience of this lesson—and I suspect many can relate—the “mixed economy” was held up as the least-bad option. The extremes were viewed with suspicion; the middle incorporated the best of both worlds, avoiding the excesses of pure capitalism or socialism.

Looking at the political landscape today, it’s clear that this “middle ground” position is, by far, the most popular. It’s simply common knowledge that both capitalism and socialism cause serious problems when taken to the extreme—knowledge that, in many cases, was graciously handed down to us by our grade 7 social studies teachers. But this seemingly common-sense approach gets the issue wrong in a number of important ways.

The Myth of the “Mixed Economy”


The first issue with the middle ground position is that there’s really no such thing as a “mixed” economy. As Ludwig von Mises explains in his magnum opus Human Action, a market economy and a socialist economy are mutually exclusive in a very technical sense, so mixing them, even in theory, is impossible:

The market economy or capitalism, as it is usually called, and the socialist economy preclude one another. There is no mixture of the two systems possible or thinkable; there is no such thing as a mixed economy, a system that would be in part capitalistic and in part socialist. Production is directed either by the market or by the decrees of a production tsar or a committee of production tsars.

What gets euphemistically called a “mixed economy,” Mises explains later in the book, is more accurately called a system of interventionism. It is still a degree of market economy, but instead of a free market, it’s a hampered market.

This has implications far beyond changing our terminology. Once we see that there is no mixing capitalism and socialism, the very concept of a spectrum between them is vitiated, and thus, so is the concept of a middle ground. As Mises writes in another place, “Interventionism is not a golden mean between capitalism and socialism. It is the design of a third system of society’s economic organization and must be appreciated as such.”

Rather than thinking of capitalism, socialism, and interventionism as being in a line, think of them arranged in a triangle. There are simply three independent systems to choose from, and none of them is “in between” any of the others.

Aside from being more economically accurate, this new configuration also helps us avoid the temptation of the middle ground fallacy, also known as the argument to moderation. The middle ground fallacy is the assumption that the best position must be the compromise between two extremes—sometimes it is, of course, but often it’s not. It’s quite likely that this fallacy has played a role in the current popularity of the “middle ground” interventionist position. Mises hints at this with his “golden mean” comment. It’s tempting to assume that the middle is best.

“But,” object the interventionists, “our position hardly stems from blind adherence to the middle for its own sake. We have genuine concerns about unfettered capitalism that we believe interventionism can mitigate.”

An Aversion to Freedom


One common concern is that—in an unhampered market—people would buy things that are bad for them. If the government didn’t regulate food, drugs, cars, houses, and so on, consumers might opt for more dangerous options because they are cheaper, leading to more deaths and injuries.

Others might be concerned about inequality. If the government doesn’t provide basic services like education, roads, libraries, and public parks, they fear that society would quickly be split into the haves and the have-nots.

Still others are concerned that specific industries would come under pressure. If the government lifts all protections, such as tariffs, wouldn’t that spell disaster for some businesses?

The common theme in these and countless other objections is an aversion to the consequences of freedom. People cite these issues as evidence that the free market “doesn’t work,” but what they really mean is that it would produce outcomes that they personally find distasteful. At their core, these arguments boil down to saying: “The problem with freedom is that people would get to do what they prefer to do, instead of what I would have them do.” To which I would respond: yes, that’s precisely what freedom is all about.

It’s completely understandable to be concerned about what people would do if the government didn’t intervene in the economy. It’s quite possible that society would look very different, that some would lose their jobs, and that the rich and poor would become more stratified.

But it’s important to understand that just because the free market would produce outcomes we don’t always like, that doesn’t mean there’s something fundamentally wrong with it. It’s quite presumptuous to say that a system is objectively broken simply because it doesn’t always give us what we personally want or we don’t know how certain things would work.

Milton Friedman summed up this theme well when he said, “A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it...gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.”

A Capitalist Dystopia?


The other major category of objection to the free market is perhaps best described as “it would usher in the apocalypse.” Two of the more common dystopian predictions are that free markets would lead to environmental disaster and that monopolies would take over and charge a fortune for everything. However, these predictions are entirely unfounded.

Regarding the environment, it’s important to remember that the free market is based on private property rights, and polluting someone else’s property is clearly an invasion of those rights. As such, a true free market would hardly allow the kind of unchecked pollution that is often feared. Now, it’s true, a property owner could mine or otherwise destroy their property as much as they wanted so long as there was no impact on the surrounding land, air, or water. But that just comes back to the above point about freedom—the objection is essentially, “He should be forced to use his land according to my [or government’s] preferences, not his own.”

As for monopolies taking over, this fear is based on the assumption that firms always benefit from merging and expanding. But this has been shown to be economically incorrect, specifically by Ronald Coase and Murray Rothbard. The economic theory accords with our real-world experience. Ask yourself this: if the market has a constant tendency toward concentration, why isn’t every single industry as concentrated as antitrust laws will allow?

The Problem with Interventionism


As the above discussion hopefully demonstrates, the supposed issues with pure capitalism are not really issues at all. True, a considerable degree of pluralism needs to be tolerated, but aside from that there’s nothing inherent in the system that prevents it from working extremely well.

There are, however, inherent issues with interventionism (and, of course, with socialism, but that goes without saying). As Henry Hazlitt shows in Economics in One Lesson, pretty much every conceivable intervention creates more problems than it solves. The reason these interventions remain popular despite this is that we focus on the immediate and visible consequences, which tend to be positive, while ignoring the long-run and invisible consequences, which tend to be negative. Rothbard’s analysis in Power and Market likewise demonstrates many serious problems inherent in the interventionist approach—how it harms personal utility, creates cartels, and wastes resources. Thus, far from fixing a broken system, interventionism actually breaks a working system.

So what would a better grade 7 social studies model look like? As discussed earlier, there are three possible systems: a free market, a hampered market, and socialism. While there is no spectrum between capitalism and socialism, there is a spectrum within interventionism, from a very high degree of intervention to almost none—and, in a sense, the pure free market is just the non-interventionist extreme on this spectrum.

The only real downside of the free market is that people are allowed to do things we don’t like. The downsides of interventionism—and these become more prominent as we move toward higher degrees of intervention—are that economic well-being is compromised and liberty is violated. Given these realities, the only reasonable position for those who cherish freedom and prosperity is the radical one: a pure market economy.
 
The Problem with Interventionism
...is that we only call it interventionism where is no corporate backing for policy-making process, because libertarians' shtick for the last 20 years is continously ignoring (1) big businesses affecting any economics-related legislations and (2) severe conflict of interest in executive branch of the government when they are selectively enforcing those legislations. So if you're going after multinational corporation abusing its influence, it means that you're actually acting against a poor local family cafe, want to enact communism and kill its owner in his sleep.

Sorry, I mean, "woof".
 
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Can resolution of disputes happen by private means without interventionism, or will lolbertarian go "you can't hit me! I'm calling pohlizee!"?
 
Can resolution of disputes happen by private means without interventionism
Yes, of course

libertarians' shtick for the last 20 years is continously ignoring (1) big businesses affecting any economics-related legislations and (2) severe conflict of interest in executive branch of the government when they are selectively enforcing those legislations
Nonsense, unless you are talking about retards
The libertarian solution to these problems is to get rid of the government, therefore big business cannot exist
 
...is that we only call it interventionism where is no corporate backing for policy-making process, because libertarians' shtick for the last 20 years is continously ignoring (1) big businesses affecting any economics-related legislations and (2) severe conflict of interest in executive branch of the government when they are selectively enforcing those legislations. So if you're going after multinational corporation abusing its influence, it means that you're actually acting against a poor local family cafe, want to enact communism and kill its owner in his sleep.

Sorry, I mean, "woof".
They will say that government makes big corporations, but libertarians ignore that the government started out as a private entity and just made itself the state. It's just the nature of power to centralize and start to create institutions to support itself. it really doesn't matter that the original shareholders were warlords, farmland owners or corporations. At some point you will just end up not doing your function and asking the weaker players to pay tribute to you.

Both the Free Market and Communism are just strategies to gain power. If you have a lot of capital in a fairy open system you just want to make sure everything can be bought. If you live in a closed system where most assets are glued to nobility, you will want to make a revolution to steal those assets by force. After you have their stuff, you just make sure you bend the rules so you don't have to share.

TL;DR Mises and Marx were both Jews. It's a stupid dialectic, both sides are cringe.
 
libertarians ignore that the government started out as a private entity
Libertarians routinely mock and ridicule the idea that government could ever be a private entity
It's just the nature of power to centralize and start to create institutions to support itself
Vague sophistry
What is power?
It makes sense to differentiate between "power of man over nature" and "power of man over man"
At some point you will just end up not doing your function and asking the weaker players to pay tribute to you.
Asking is OK, but using force is not OK
Using force against non-aggressors is literally in violation of the most basic of basic libertarian basics
Both the Free Market and Communism are just strategies to gain power
Again, see my point above
The free market is a pareto-optimal maximization of man's power over nature - which is based and necessary for man's survival
Communism is a horrific maximization of man's power over man, of a small elite to the detriment of everyone
TL;DR Mises and Marx were both Jews. It's a stupid dialectic, both sides are cringe.
One side minimizes interpersonal conflict, the other side maximizes it. I don't see how the former is cringe.
 
Can we really call it a "free market" if I'm not allowed to sell children fentanyl-laced candy?
As long as you label the candy properly and make sure that the children in question have understood what they are buying, I don't see a way to argue against this without arguing that children have no rights
 
I don't want to debate much, it never convinced anybody of anything.

One side minimizes interpersonal conflict, the other side maximizes it. I don't see how the former is cringe.
Asking is OK, but using force is not OK
Using force against non-aggressors is literally in violation of the most basic of basic libertarian basics

Yeah, making sure rich people can hoard everything and can just push their will on the majority totally cozy and wholesome. And no I don't care about the "but we don't allow that", because how do you enforce the NAP? Both Anarchism and Libertarianism falls into the situation of having to recreate the state to avoid the recreation of the state. If you have a super limited government, how can it enforce anything. How can you force all the private entities to cease trading with the power centralizing group. It's simply against their economic interest not to be trading with said group. They can have muh morals, but that would create unfavorable conditions for them, therefore those guys will lost their bag.

Sure you can set up the Private Death Squad, but if that exists and it has more concentration of arms and men, they can just... force others to pay protection money like the mafia. And that is basically just paying taxes. Principles mean nothing when you can't enforce them. Even if citizens are just individually armed, nothing will stop them to basically create better organization, set up an armory and enforce their will.

I unironically agree with many parts of libertarian ideas, I like the self organization of man etc, but a self organized society.... is still an organized society. Whatever states we have now, were basically have their roots in some charismatic guy getting some followers and taking the stuff of the neighboring village.

Any ideology that depends on "well people will be nice" has it's weaknesses. Communism failed on this principle, Libertarianism would also fail on this principle. Hell communism was supposed to be basically a stateless individualistic thing, on paper.

Seriously, how would you stop power centralization? The rich and powerful would just have more wealth and opportunities. You will be forced to work for them, period. Even if the top guys got there 100% by merit, they can or their kids sit back and think "hmm, I could just enforce my will on people because I have a key role in society".

I mean some libertarians worship billionaires, but as we see, billionaires after they get their money, they just want to pull up the ladder so they can enjoy their spoils. Also they usually stated out well connected to begin with, how do you account for the difference in societal capital, network capital and special interest groups?

It is a rhetorical question. I don't want to specifically bother you with this. Human nature is both competitive and cooperative. The world we live in is natural, they will most likely just recreate it.

Vague sophistry
What is power?
It makes sense to differentiate between "power of man over nature" and "power of man over man"
Don't pay your taxes and you will find it what is power. There is nothing vague about it. You force your will on the world, if you have power you get stuff, if you don't have power you get your face punched or worse, you have to be a wagie.

Libertarians routinely mock and ridicule the idea that government could ever be a private entity
If PepsiCo overthrows the government and decides how you will live it will become the government. Most institutions started out as some private and/or useful thing. Even religion was basically linked to date keeping, administration and mathematical calculations so agriculture can function. State was basically warlords settling down and having enough bootlickers to formalize their rule.

Libertarians treat the state like communist do with capitalism, some magical ghost that just appeared to be bad. Maybe we have the state because of a selection process on how to effectively organize society? They say evolution doesn't have a goal, it just goes with whatever works. I despise the clown world we live in, but for the purposes of stability and serving the interests of certain groups things actually work nicely.

Well, I came to shit up your thread so my bad. Still, my overal point is even if libertarians are pretty good at raw economics, there are other considerations. I put the two ideologies as different sides of the same coin because they would both end up having corrosive effects on society. To find an actual middle road, if we had the extended families, communities and more decentralized type of society and economy we used to have then yeah, things would work out much more nicely. Just making everything even more free for all in our current society (especially with the hidden organizations and flows of resources) would be just a disaster.
 
Both Anarchism and Libertarianism falls into the situation of having to recreate the state to avoid the recreation of the state.
The state is a NAP violator

Do you perhaps misunderstand what the NAP is?
The NAP only forbids the initiation of violence.
It does not forbid restitutional violence. In other words, a NAP violator is undergoing a severe risk of being gunned down by everyone nearby.
Sure you can set up the Private Death Squad, but if that exists and it has more concentration of arms and men, they can just... force others to pay protection money like the mafia.
That's just an appeal to probability, not a proper argument
Any ideology that depends on "well people will be nice" has it's weaknesses.
I agree.
Libertarianism has no such dependency.
If people are not being nice, they are killed. Instead of getting immunity from some government. Or, god forbid, becoming government agents with legal immunity.
Seriously, how would you stop power centralization?
By nipping it in the bud.
Don't pay your taxes and you will find it what is power. There is nothing vague about it. You force your will on the world, if you have power you get stuff, if you don't have power you get your face punched or worse, you have to be a wagie.
That's a package deal. You can't make valid conclusions from this.
If your definition applies simultaneously to the situation of making muffins out of dough and robbing someone at gunpoint, your definition and your conclusions are dogshit.
 
Libertarians are dipshits. I'm going to quote a post I wrote years ago about how stupid they are:
All property is theft, be it theft from nature or other men. The realization is that anything belongs to anyone who can take it and protect it. That's how property lines were drawn and how they will be drawn.

People cite these issues as evidence that the free market “doesn’t work,” but what they really mean is that it would produce outcomes that they personally find distasteful.
Yeah, poison in my food is distasteful, and it's bad enough right now.
At their core, these arguments boil down to saying: “The problem with freedom is that people would get to do what they prefer to do, instead of what I would have them do.”
I wonder what this guy thinks about the freedom to expel Jews from one's nation.
It’s quite possible that society would look very different, that some would lose their jobs, and that the rich and poor would become more stratified.
How convenient.
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
I believe in the freedom to shoot CEOs who get too uppity.
Two of the more common dystopian predictions are that free markets would lead to environmental disaster and that monopolies would take over and charge a fortune for everything. However, these predictions are entirely unfounded.
No they're not, and this is obvious.
Regarding the environment, it’s important to remember that the free market is based on private property rights, and polluting someone else’s property is clearly an invasion of those rights.
Oh, so now we move to the redefinition of freedom wherever convenient. I'm sure awful shit like copyright and patents would magically be included in property rights too. After all, what's the government there to do except enforce monopolies?
Ask yourself this: if the market has a constant tendency toward concentration, why isn’t every single industry as concentrated as antitrust laws will allow?
They're not?

I like my libraries and other pieces of socialism.
 
All property is theft, be it theft from nature or other men. The realization is that anything belongs to anyone who can take it and protect it. That's how property lines were drawn and how they will be drawn.
That is completely and utterly retarded.
For something to be subject to theft, it must be in ownership first. It is not logically possible to steal something that is unowned.
Who owns nature?

Also, your point is a complete rejection of ethics, or a mere possessor ethic.
Do you know about the distinction between an owner and a possessor?
If Jamal comes and steals your wallet at gunpoint, he becomes the possessor of your wallet, but you remain the legitimate owner. Because you are the owner, nobody has the right to use force to stop you from killing Jamal in order to repossess your wallet.
 
Who owns nature?
Someone, eventually.
Also, your point is a complete rejection of ethics, or a mere possessor ethic.
Yes. Ethics do a lot of good for someone dying on a cross.
Do you know about the distinction between an owner and a possessor?
If I can destroy something, then I own it.
If Jamal comes and steals your wallet at gunpoint, he becomes the possessor of your wallet, but you remain the legitimate owner.
Yes, because a state set up these rules. The state actually owns everything in a society, even children. People aren't allowed to destroy their children, therefore they don't really own them, as an example. This is a good thing.
 
By nipping it in the bud.
So we will have a spooks to kill people who... dare to talk about teaming up? How will you discover said conspiracies? Who will watch the watchmen? etc. I sure love utopian ideologies. They all end up the same.

Who even decides what is harmful centralization of power and what is just efficiency? Wouldn't this be just abused to gain economic advantage? Etc.

The state is a NAP violator

Do you perhaps misunderstand what the NAP is?
The NAP only forbids the initiation of violence.
It does not forbid restitutional violence. In other words, a NAP violator is undergoing a severe risk of being gunned down by everyone nearby.
If 1000 of my guys show up, you can try to defend yourself but organize groups will always outfight isolated people. How the fuck do you enforce the NAP? Without creating a police or spooks? You can't. You just expect people to magically believe your ideology, when they could just team up and abuse those who don't want to team up. And no it's not an army, it's the guys who happen to work in the mine, but I promised them 2 months of salary if they help to kick you out from your bridge, so I can transport stuff easier without having to pay you. It's even good for the 1000 guys, because we can expand the mine faster without having to pay for the road coasts.

Why would random people just obey a random idea that doesn't exist vs their economic or societal interest in teaming up and fucking you over? As mentioned, your stuff depends on people believing this magical thing exists and acting accordingly, they need to be "good people".

That's just an appeal to probability, not a proper argument
My idea is the only key to utopia, but don't you dare talk about what could happen. Just believe me.

Sure thing buddy. If you will pull this Reddit tier "muh fallacies" nonsense I will stop treating you seriously.
 
Sure you can set up the Private Death Squad, but if that exists and it has more concentration of arms and men, they can just... force others to pay protection money like the mafia
That's just an appeal to probability, not a proper argument
That's actually how it worked with mercenaries in African failed states. "But that's because niggers" - and, while in lesser extent, it worked like this in early years of Ukranian civil war. "But that's because Ukranians" - during Yugoslav wars as well.

So in general, if you're not some backwater dictator, but an average working class Joe, you don't want to have mercenaries as your primary means of protection. They will milk you dry and ask for more, because you have no leverage over them.
 
That's actually how it worked with mercenaries in African failed states. "But that's because niggers" - and, while in lesser extent, it worked like this in early years of Ukranian civil war. "But that's because Ukranians" - during Yugoslav wars as well.

So in general, if you're not some backwater dictator, but an average working class Joe, you don't want to have mercenaries as your primary means of protection. They will milk you dry and ask for more, because you have no leverage over them.
I agree with you. The primary means of protection must be yourself. If your rights depend on a third party to enforce them, then you have no rights.
That is why gun ownership is so fucking important.
In a proper free society, I expect a systematic armament of the people, rather than the opposite tendency of systematic disarmament (and defenselessness before attackers) under statist conditions.
Only an armed society is a polite society, and I yearn for a society in which everyone is armed to the teeth.
 
Both Anarchism and Libertarianism falls into the situation of having to recreate the state to avoid the recreation of the state. If you have a super limited government, how can it enforce anything.

What is the minimum amount of government a country can have to prevent something else from replacing it? That's essentially what I want and I think is something you could get most libertarians to agree upon as well. I don't know if it's possible to get a group of people to agree upon precisely what that is, but it surely exists somewhere along the spectrum or pure anarchism to total communism. One could argue that Trump cutting and removing government functions is moving towards that point even if he's not a Libertarian.

I don't think that such a government is achievable for any large country at the present time. It requires a moral people who can run their own lives without the state and a willingness to allow people to suffer the horrible consequences of their own poor decisions. If we wanted to implement such a government, we would have to accept that at least 5% and possibly as much as 15% of our population would starve to death or otherwise die from being incapable of self-governance and reliance on the state. The remaining population is better off without the parasites, but few have the stomach to let nature take its course with them.

I'm not sure that any country could have a completely free market without any intervention at this point. Too many past interventions have placed their economies in a state where removal of those interventions would upend their economies. Perhaps a newly formed country could take this approach so that it never develops industries which are uncompetitive, but existing ones have too many entrenched interests. If people were automatons that would just shrug and find a new job it wouldn't be so bad, but recent history has shown that many just get addicted to alcohol, opiates, or something else and rot.

Trump's approach is interesting because even if tariffs result in countries engaging in economic activity that is less than ideal, it does at least create a situation where there's a greater need for labor. Economists can measure how much is being lost by manufacturing something locally instead of importing it from some other source that can produce it more efficiently, but I don't think they've considered the cost of populations not having jobs and becoming listless dependents upon the state. A libertarian either needs a plan to deal with that very real consequence of a free market or needs to accept that a large number of people will have to be left to suffer and die.
 
Two things are necessary for a truly free market economy to work.

-First, you have to put in place many barriers and restrictions on the government so big businesses can't use them to enthrall the market in red tape only they can pass. Because ALL monopolies are sustained via control of government legislation and red tape keeping leaner and more effective competitors out of the market.
-Second, tariff the fuck out of almost every imported good from other countries who will undercut and undermine domestic good prices and therefore crush domestic production.

If you don't have protection from within and without, a truly free market economy can't survive domestically.
 
-First, you have to put in place many barriers and restrictions on the government
I agree.
By restricting it from existing. Everybody has the right to use lethal force against anyone trying to govern anyone else without their consent.
-Second, tariff the fuck out of almost every imported good from other countries
That is retarded. Tariffs are just taxes, and taxation is theft.
Too many past interventions have placed their economies in a state where removal of those interventions would upend their economies.
Of course stuff needs to be upended. The same way you need to upend your lifestyle and diet if you're morbidly obese. You can't keep going with the same diet and lifestyle if you want to achieve a healthy weight.
 
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