Hector Martin / Héctor Martín Cantero / @marcan42 / マルカン / @marcan42x / @marcan@treehouse.systems / Asahi Lina / Asahi Linux - Developer of Asahi Linux with a VTuber persona. Made Byuu's death unbelievable. Constantly accuses others of harassment and abuse. Hates Hacker News and Kiwi Farms.

[Nobody Important]

Aaaaand Notorious LBT steps in:

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On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 at 01:19, Hector Martin <marcan@marcan.st> wrote:
>
> If shaming on social media does not work, then tell me what does,
> because I'm out of ideas.

How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you.

You think you know better. But the current process works.

It has problems, but problems are a fact of life. There is no perfect.

However, I will say that the social media brigading just makes me not
want to have anything at all to do with your approach.

Because if we have issues in the kernel development model, then social
media sure as hell isn't the solution. The same way it sure as hell
wasn't the solution to politics.

Technical patches and discussions matter. Social media brigading - no
than\k you.

Linus

https://lkml.org/lkml/2025/2/6/1292

Looking at this now, I can't get it out of my head that Linus's tone here sounds like something out of Bojack Horseman.

 

[bort420]

it'd have to be Zig

just having sane bitfields is more than enough to make zig strictly better than C for MMIO i.e. that thing that comprises like 95% of driver code

 

[KingFrampt]

Hector chill out - Just sit back, drink a beer, and jack off to some of those underage anime girls you like so much

 

[RGBCube]

the moment they move to something more normal it would attract more normies and less hardcore autists

I agree with the sentiment, you don't want anything mainstream for a project such as the Linux kernel. But there is no argument for continuing to use bad tools that make it cumbersome to review changes and have multiple stacked commits other than "it's hard to move off of".

GitHub would also be a terrible choice as it's slow & centralized unlike mailing lists. I believe Radicle would be the ideal way of collaboration for Linux because it is:

1. Fundamentall based on git.
2. Adds more functionality by reustng git concepts (COBs are just git objects, which power "issues" and "patches").
3. Fundamentally cli-based. You have to use their command line tool to create issues/patches/comments/reactions, which will keep out developers you don't want.
4. Decentralized and thus peer to peer, like email.

I really hope they consider it rather than a centralized forge like Gitea, GitLab or Forgejo.

I was referring to that which inherently defeats the point of pushing Rust because the biggest argument for is memory safety.

But it doesn't. unsafe Rust is still Rust.

What many people fail to consider when criticizing Rust (and there are fair things to criticize about it) is that it was created to encapsulate the "unsafety" (Quoted because I don't believe it's the right term, memory-checked or pointer-validated would have been better.) and make it easier to reason about, letting you write correct code while being more certain.

With C, the unsafety is quite leaky so any code snippet anywhere in your codebase can cause UB. With Rust that's narrowed down to the unsafe blocks, which makes it easier to work with.

 

[bort420]

GitHub would also be a terrible choice as it's kind of slow & centralized unlike LKML (email is decentralized, after all). I think Radicle would be the ideal way of collaboration for such a project because it is:

I don't really care as long as it doesn't depend on email as much as it does. mailing lists suck ass for searching for info and tracking through discussions

Rust is a honeytrap for ppl who want safety but the issue is 99% of code doesn't give a fuck, and 1% that does sometimes requires insane low level access that rust's type system can't handle. Like intrusive linked lists which are used everywhere in Linux. You end up having to write C in Rust in a giant unsafe block so what's the point?

 

[Peru oso donas]

See I don't even barely understand a word you just said. Diffs? "Patches from outlook"?
This secret wisdom should be protected otherwise next thing you know they'll add emojis and a fucking reels feature like has been added to everything else.

Working as intended.

Does it really work if it's unable to keep out troons like Hector?

 

[RGBCube]

I don't really care as long as it doesn't depend on email as much as it does. mailing lists suck ass for searching for info and tracking through discussions

Email is horrible for archiving and you need separate software to do it, yeah. See LKML, Debian, ...

Rust is a honeytrap for ppl who want safety but the issue is 99% of code doesn't give a fuck, and 1% that does sometimes requires insane low level access that rust's type system can't handle. Like intrusive linked lists which are used everywhere in Linux. You end up having to write C in Rust in a giant unsafe block so what's the point?

That's the whole point of Rust. Even in the Kernel, most code can be written in a completely safe subset of the language. For things like intrusive, doubly linked lists you are supposed to create a generic implementation, write all your unsafe code in it and reuse the abstraction. You don't write unsafe everywhere, you reuse abstractions thay expose a safe API but are implemented using unsafe code.

And you're not reimplementing the DLL either, it's available in the standard library or as crates written by other, well-known people in the ecosystem. But knowing how to use unsafe Rust is still invaluable and the community gatekeeping it, making it look like it's "elite" isn't doing Rust a favor.

You might want to check out the Rust for Linux documentation and specifically the the linked list implementation

 

[neger psykolog]

Does it really work if it's unable to keep out troons like Hector?

Yeah he met the final boss Linus and left after that lol

 

[Heartbeat]

Does it really work if it's unable to keep out troons like Hector?

Yes, because at the end of a day it's still a white autistic person whose special interest is fucking around with drivers and shit instead of your run of the mill clout chasing jeet or bootcamp code artisans working from starbucks that are just looking to pad their resume.

 

[The Real Slim Shady]

Doing such a comparison is nasty because Linuxes LOK are kinda inflated by autogenerated lines from graphics drivers (hi AMD!). First thing that comes to mind is gcc

GCC is also written by these bad, old men at GNU, so it's safe from Hector.

Also, who the fuck let AMD put autogenerated code in the mainline?

 

[Edict of Expulsion]

I don't really care as long as it doesn't depend on email as much as it does. mailing lists suck ass for searching for info and tracking through discussions

Rust is a honeytrap for ppl who want safety but the issue is 99% of code doesn't give a fuck, and 1% that does sometimes requires insane low level access that rust's type system can't handle. Like intrusive linked lists which are used everywhere in Linux. You end up having to write C in Rust in a giant unsafe block so what's the point?

Anything that takes decisions out of the hands of shit-stained pajeet hands is a net benefit to humanity. Sun saw this with Java, that rocket went to the moon so hard it displaced cobol.

Even up to significant white space, having one way to do something, even if the way kind of sucks, is a godsend and you’re dealing with the teeming masses of 80 IQ subhumans churning out garbage.

Communism works within a family, libertarianism works within a small village, but anything that actually needs to scale and requires decent IQ just disintegrates on reentry.

If Indians and similar subhumans were forbidden by the laws of physics to never write another line of C and only rust, it would be a net benefit

 

[just Reading a post]

Yeah he met the final boss Linus and left after that lol

He met sleepy Linus imo. Linus did not even bother to unload on his ass, like he is known to do. He just told him how dumb he is for obsessing over social media. That was enough for him to rage quit his public persona and start under a painfully obvious sock account.
Hector is hardly fucking original with his big brain plan. Linus has had to deal with glowie level infiltrations to take his life's work away from him before. I can imagine he gets blackmail/threats and many other things to allow backdoors and compromises to his Kernel every so often from state level actors. Not to mention every retard fag who has taken a shot at him in the mailing list over the years.
Yet this fucking social clout goblin and his tranny cabal, really thinks he is the fucking one to be the GNU/Jesus. If the pussy hack is feeling underappreciated he can make a cross and nail himself and his fucking m1 Mac to it and die for our sins.

 

[bort420]

this is far more effective than ranty Linus because his criticism cannot be assailed using a tone argument or other disingenuous bullshit. Martin probably knows that and that's why he DFE

 

[obongo]

I've heard that Torvald's rages used to be infamous and he would swear and all sorts of shit - sad he seems to have chilled out a bit but still funny/great that he was so on-point with what he said.

He hasn't chilled out, he has cucked out.

 

[Edict of Expulsion]

Nothing is really stopping anyone from writing a layer that imports and exports all of the Linux development activity to something fancy like Radicle, or even something more traditional like Asana.

GitHub has that live mirror of the Linux kernel code.

It would be a good test case, and a great way to see if the/a system scales.
Also free advertising (minus the time to set up and maintain it).

Then, if anyone is lazy enough in the kernel maintainer world they might check it out and do the equivalent of *gasp* firing up VS code one day, instead of scrolling thousands of lines of diff emails and keeping it all in their “memory palace” like a super sperg magnus carlsen.

If anyone with any skill or aptitude or actual committer access would use it is the question.

Similar to how the kernel eventually needs something like rust, it also does need something better than the LKML but unless grand wizard faggot torvalds whips it up during one of his diving induced oxygen deprivation fever dreams, it will be shunned probably as unclean.


Honorable mention, by the way, of Sarah Sharp. USB3 maintainer for a very short bit. Actually decent looking natal woman, iirc associated with Intel, and also ragequit about the linux kernel dev culture being too “toxic masculine”-ity, and then proceeds to troon out and turned into a pooner.
(The term of the day was “non-binary”)

IIRC she had a work boyfriend at the time, but having your girlfriend growing thick man hair, probably would be too much.

Point is, certain areas are incredibly radioactive. Such as Hollywood. Like after Fukushima and Chernobyl, it’s only safe to send in robots.

Only like Sora should make films, and only AI should have full continuous integration to just attempt code for a given piece of hardware and then just let try and try again and run for hours, like compiles and renders used to take, until it gets something workable.

To save humans from pushing the autism into what hector and rozenweig have become, and what totally hating-their-own-race weirdos hollywood types end up as (annasophia robb has her identity now being killing babies and flipping out that nature is healing by reacting trump. uma thurman gave the kid she had at 40 something sux names and one was some african shithole).


Apologies for the rambling, but it really does seem connected that people are not mentally prepared for the modern world and we need technological space radiation suits to protect us.

 

[Heartbeat]

He hasn't chilled out, he has cucked out.

I don't care about Linus's mental state or motives. All I know is the result, which was that his "cucked" response did infinitely more damage to Hector than a tornado of expletives ever could. In a way, the latter would've only added to hmartin's relevance.

more traditional like Asana

Jesus Christ how horrifying the world is now that a fucking todo list born from orange reddit is considered traditional. (still better than JIRA)

 

[RGBCube]

Nothing is really stopping anyone from writing a layer that imports and exports all of the Linux development activity to something fancy like Radicle, or even something more traditional like Asana.

I'm not going to attempt to clone and seed the whole Linux tree, but here are the commands required to do it yourself:

set -eo pipefail

rad auth # create private keypair
rad node start # start our node
git clone https://github.com/torvalds/linux # clone linux, all of it
cd linux
rad init . # initialize rad repo
git push rad # push to our local node

Pushing works without an Internet connection as your node is running locally, and when you get Internet access the official Radicle teams node with an open seeding policy (web UI) will start pulling from you.

Of course this doesn't include any LKML shenanigans but it would be really cool (and not even hard) to scrape LKML and create a radicle identity for every developer and populate the issues/patches with them.

 

[AnOminous]

Hector chill out - Just sit back, drink a beer, and jack off to some of those underage anime girls you like so much

It's totally okay though, he isn't a pedophile because he pretends he IS the underage anime girl getting raped.

 

[Edict of Expulsion]

Of course this doesn't include any LKML shenanigans but it would be really cool (and not even hard) to scrape LKML and create a radicle identity for every developer and populate the issues/patches with them.

Right, that's my thought, using all of its features. To make it more than a clone of the existing github clone.

What previously would take grad students or mechanical turk subhumans can now actually be shoved off into some LLM API call, if some kind of crude 'decision' has to be made say of tagging some message or some data cleaning or other tedious drugery and requires more than traditional parsing rules.

I almost would want to start smaller before trying to consume that microsoft-level corporate behemoth level of firehose that is the full LKML and all the goings on. But I can't touch this for a while even if I wanted to.

 

[Mettaur]

I've heard that Torvald's rages used to be infamous and he would swear and all sorts of shit - sad he seems to have chilled out a bit but still funny/great that he was so on-point with what he said.

Fun fact Linus Torvalds admitted at one point the entire reason he created Git was to essentially automate having to message other programmers while doing coding.