Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Ghostse]

I saw /pol/ schizoing out but I just assumed something blew up, another Depot or gas terminal.
People were upset at the phone call yesterday? Why? Negotiations require communication, preferably not through the Saudis forever.

tl;dr because Trump has said nice things to Putin, Trump wants the war over fast, and the natural assumption is that Trump will let Russia keep its illegal gains to stop the war, or create a peace deal russia will violate 2-5 years when they have rearmed and Ukraine won't be a warfooting anymore.
There is no solid evidence this happening; there's no solid evidence period, so speculation is running wild. Everyone can spout of with whatever theories and they're currently all about as equally valid.

There is as much evidence of "Trump will be forcing Russia to 1992 borders" as there is evidence "Trump will give all of Ukraine to Russia". And there is just as much evidence for either of those outcomes as there is for "Trump will actually use the talks as platform to reveal the existence of Extra Terrestrial intelligence to the world"

I don't think focusing Trump's actions is the best way to go about this. Our relationship with Russia has been appeasement since the fall of the USSR starting with Yeltsin who invaded Chechnya or even the Kiev chicken speech if we want to be honest. American presidents are leery about war because of the Iraq-Afghanistan precedent.

More than just the issues with Iraq/Afghanistan, US leaders are leery that a collapsing Russia might cause a Russian leader backed into a corner to just say "fuck it" and launch nukes.

 

[Clownish]

"These negotiations are led by Donald Trump. Everything is on the table. In his conversations with Vladimir Putin and Zelensky, what he decides to allow or not allow, is at the purview of the leader of the free world--President Trump. So I'm not going to stand at this podium and declare what President Trump will do or won't do, what will be in or what will be out, what concessions will be made or what concessions are not made." - Hegseth

Hegseth walks back his statement yesterday that a negotiated settlement is not likely to end with Ukraine in NATO.

Looks like it's all a false alarm about NATO. Hegseth is just a dumb nigger DEI hire.

 

[No. 7 cat]

What deal did Putin offer Scholz to kill billions in military aid and continue to buy hundred of billions in natural gas from Russia?
Still waiting on that Scholz post.

The volume of Russian gas bought by Germany is negligible now. Norway, Netherlands, the US, Algeria are suppliers. Three of the four Nordstream pipes had some issue and Gazprom no longer supplies gas through NS 1. There might be some via Turkstream.

Scholz citing fiscal issues and probably also from his panicky and pandering personality halted any new aid. Perhaps it's pandering to AfD Red Army rape baby voters, but that's availed him nothing. Scholz did that in return for sweet Fanny Adams, nothing.

 

[-Jack-]

I missed when this thread was about watching Russian soldiers being blown up.

 

[World in Scarlet]

The volume of Russian gas bought by Germany is negligible now. Norway, Netherlands, the US, Algeria are suppliers. Three of the four Nordstream pipes had some issue and Gazprom no longer supplies gas through NS 1. There might be some via Turkstream.

Scholz citing fiscal issues and probably also from his panicky and personality halted any new aid. Perhaps it's pandering to AfD Red Army rape baby voters, but that's availed him nothing. Scholz did that in return for sweet Fanny Adams, nothing.

Serious talk: He's shitting up the thread because he has a meltdown every time Trump is talked about in an evidence based way.

These dumbshit posts he writes are a way to heckle people into shutting up, and he doesn't mind derailing and shitting up the thread to accomplish that. Better to have no discussion at all than him having to see things that trigger him.

You're wasting your time trying to talk to him, because he is dishonest and will just respond with more spastic nonsense. Best to just put him on ignore. It also saves time no longer having to scroll past his boring boomer bloviating.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

Frankly it would have been cheaper to hawk our stored tanks and IFVs on Ukraine than to pay to have them melted down for scrap.
That gear is nearing the end of its useful life anyway. How much longer are thousands of baseline M1A1's gonna be useful?

 

[Snekposter]

How much longer are thousands of baseline M1A1's gonna be useful?

A long fucking time considering we can just refurb them into the latest M1A2 SEP-whatever models unless the hull has started to completely fail.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Trump did his usual thing of talking to an opponent and then saying "this is a very great person, we had lots of great conversation, I think we can make a deal". They're mad (or ecstatic in the case of the putin simps) that he spoke to Putin first and ignore that he also spoke to Zelensky immediately after, or that Z has (at least in public) responded favourably to the events so far.

There is a valid concern that Trump is going to force unreasonable concessions from Ukraine, but this is being blown up into "Trump is betraying Ukraine and going behind Zelensky's back!" by people on both sides, for their own reasons - again ignoring everything that contradicts the claims.

That's basically it. People are malding because Trump doesn't talk right and exaggerates things all the time. They're forgetting that this is the man who negotiated the Abraham accords - a deal everyone involved considered favourable - and was the first US leader to greet little Kim inside North Korea.

It's funny, I've already seen some Russians acting smug about it... I don't think having leader of USA, the country they both despise and envy so much, finish the war for them because they can't do it on their own terms is as much of a W as they think. The way they constantly flip back and forth depending on what's favorable to them is pathetic.

While Ukrainians are dying to save their nation, their land and their future, Russians are dying so that Putin's could save face. He could stop at any moment, but he's willing to continue slaughter until everyone else gets tired of seeing both Ukrainians and Russians get massacred in this war, because outright winning is out of the question at this point. All in order for a 3rd party to enter and negotiate end of the conflict so it doesn't look like he bitched out.

 

[National Defense Advocate]

A long fucking time considering we can just refurb them into the latest M1A2 SEP-whatever models unless the hull has started to completely fail.

Nah son, it's all about the M1EP now.

 

[teriyakiburns]

It's been a Russian demand for a long time to negotiate directly with the United States, excluding Ukraine, and the phone call revealed that Trump was doing exactly that, caving to Putin.

He spoke to Zelensky the same day.

 

[Ghostse]

Scholz citing fiscal issues and probably also from his panicky and personality halted any new aid. Perhaps it's pandering to AfD Red Army rape baby voters, but that's availed him nothing. Scholz did that in return for sweet Fanny Adams, nothing.

Oh I agree, he had his reasons.

But my point is: European leader provably, actually yanks billions in military aid from Ukraine, no one bats an eye and it barely gets mentioned. There are no angry Scholz posts, not pages of people accusing Scholz of being a Russian stooge (despite the fact he is)
Trump talks about the possibility of reducing aid and dumb euroniggers with TDS like @World in Scarlet (who is too much of a bitch to @ or quote when they try to talk shit) lose their fucking minds for months and repeat old disproven lies and post their Trump sex fantasies unprompted.

Also the issue is that Germany + the rest of Europe is still importing Russian gas, just requiring it to go through a 3rd party first.
German imports are down 15% over last year. They are taking positive steps, but that doesn't change that Firstly, these steps are a decade overdue and should have been the response to the 2014 invasion of Crimea. Second, if they were just completely demand Russia be isolated from the global hydrocarbon market, Russia would collapse as their economy would seize in months if not sooner.

They are still funding the threat they demand another country save them from, European energy money is what bought all those drones being used to attack Ukraine, yet all they talk about is if Trump used too nice of words in his tweet about Putin.

Looks like it's all a false alarm about NATO. Hegseth is just a dumb nigger DEI hire.

Many such cases. SAD!
And this is why I'm telling people to stop treating speculation and early reports as facts, and wait until at least the first draft of the proposal leaks before going off.

He spoke to Zelensky the same day.

@World in Scarlet isn't going to let things like facts get in the way of his hateboner for Trump.

 

[World in Scarlet]

He spoke to Zelensky the same day.

Did you not see his comments about talking to Putin in Arabia or the way he responded to the question whether Ukraine would have a seat at the table?

 

[No. 7 cat]

Frankly it would have been cheaper to hawk our stored tanks and IFVs on Ukraine than to pay to have them melted down for scrap.
That gear is nearing the end of its useful life anyway. How much longer are thousands of baseline M1A1's gonna be useful?

And better than providing the Taleban with the newest stuff (thanks Trump-Biden).

Hopefully providing stored gear continues and steps up. Even HAWK SAMs are competitive and anything Gulf War 1 and later trounces Russian crap.

Anyhow we will see what deal Trump makes. The US holds the aces, but if he's in a MAGA bubble and ignores professional advice, he'll think Russia in a world power (some bad indicators in that regard) when in reality Sweden, (may their Bofors, Grippen and Saab systems and the Swedes be fired with the spirit of Charles XII), Poland (they too nearly conquered Russia) or Finland could roll the Russia on their own. For now we cannot really say. Hopefully a good deal is made. It's an interim deal anyhow, before efforts resume to restore Ukraine.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Did you not see his comments about talking to Putin in Arabia or the way he responded to the question whether Ukraine would have a seat at the table?

Talking to your counterpart in a neutral 3rd nation is typically how peace talks work, yes. Russia and the US have a different relationship than the rest of the world. That is reality. Zelinsky will get brought in after touching base. No need to bring him in if talks go no where.

 

[Blackstar]

HOLY BLYATBALLS, DONBAS IS SQUIRTING, LET'S DO A QUICK IN-AND-OUT DOUBLE CHUCK ON KHERSON. FUCKING PIGS, I LOST IT ALL, ANY COMRADE IN CHAT COULD HOOK ME UP WITH A 1000 RUBLE JUICER?
Meme courtesy of @ItCouldBeWorse

 

[MG-34]

A long fucking time considering we can just refurb them into the latest M1A2 SEP-whatever models unless the hull has started to completely fail.

Also that T14 super tank was vaporware and the Chinese seem to have shit tank designs.

 

[Least Concern]

Then there's also the content Trump's message itself, which was very submissive and friendly towards someone who is an enemy of the United States and working to undermine and wreck it.

Are you old enough to have been politically conscious during Trump 45? He always talked up leaders when he was negotiating with them, even if he disparaged them before (or after). It's part of his standard MO to flatter them like that - probably some sort of tactic he learned in the business world. He did the same with Kim and Xi. Nobody who's been paying attention should be surprised by what he's saying about Putin at all.

I missed when this thread was about watching Russian soldiers being blown up.

But it will be a pretty good day when no such new footage exists anymore.

 

[ostronaut]

Iraq? You act as if we weren't subsidizing you until 2001 for some reason. Iraq was you paying interest on the massive loan we've given you in the form of defense for decades.

Poland joined NATO in 1999, you fucking retard

 

[WelperHelper99]

Are you old enough to have been politically conscious during Trump 45? He always talked up leaders when he was negotiating with them, even if he disparaged them before (or after). It's part of his standard MO to flatter them like that - probably some sort of tactic he learned in the business world. He did the same with Kim and Xi. Nobody who's been paying attention should be surprised by what he's saying about Putin at all.

You can go before Trump was in politics. This is who Trump is. He talks good about his opposition because he wants a good deal. A little flattery never hurt. Especially when you're trying to get a contract in New York, or in this case, end a war.

But it will be a pretty good day when no such new footage exists anymore.

Amen. No more death.

 

[Snekposter]

Also that T14 super tank was vaporware and the Chinese seem to have shit tank designs.

Yup. The USA was desperate to get an upgraded version of the M1 out in response to perceived upgrades in Russian armor... and then the war breaks out, Russian armor starts exploding, and the USA decides it can hold off on that and take its time to develop a more fuller upgrade package, possibly even a brand new design.

He did the same with Kim and Xi. Nobody who's been paying attention should be surprised by what he's saying about Putin at all.

Yeah, but he just went and broke Kim's heart, the bastard.

Anyways, random thing I went and looked up just now. The Montreaux Convention governing passage through the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits has a tonnage limit of 10,000 on ships that belong to powers outside of the Black Sea, and wouldn't you know it but the Arleigh Burkes are just under that... and that the USA never signed it, but generally respects Turkey's powers under it. And of course, if Ukraine grants the USA full basing rights out of say, Odessa, do we now count as a Black Sea power under it?