Ziz / Jack Amadeus LaSota / Zizians / sinceriously.fyi - Vegan AI Singularity Doomsday Cult turned Tranny Manson Family. Implicated in at least 6 deaths.

[Markass the Worst]

lmao, I think cops somehow missed the more important half of this memo

You don't need to private tag court docs.

 

[Jupiter Doughnuts]

I don't think any rationalist is smart and I know I could handily defeat them in any physical competition.

One of the funniest bits of the rationalist sphere is Slate Star Codex asking for people's IQs and SAT scores on his annual reader survey. Makes me think of Mensa. Everybody who's actually smart and successful has no need to bring up their SAT score after they apply to college - their knowledge and career stands on its own. The only people who care about it after age 19 are people who are unsuccessful in every other way and their highest achievement in life is how they did on some exam as a teen.

A lot of the rationalist space is people who peaked in life during a standardized test. Hell, their icon Yudkowski has published his 8th grade SAT score, nevermind that he dropped out of all formal education immediately thereafter and has never produced anything meaningful in the last 20 years of grifting for MIRI.

For a hilarious history of the whole Rat scene I highly recommend this series of blog posts that starts with Yudkowski in the 90s and explains the whole scene in accurate but actually readable posts.

 

[not william stenchever]

I don't think any rationalist is smart and I know I could handily defeat them in any physical competition.

Trust the soyence vs Source: "It was revealed to me in a dream"

 

[neger psykolog]

For a hilarious history of the whole Rat scene I highly recommend this series of blog posts that starts with Yudkowski in the 90s and explains the whole scene in accurate but actually readable posts.

oh god I read this a while ago (I think maybe when it first came out). Re-reading it now I see the Zizians are fucking mentioned.

Anyway, yeah these niggas are nuts and also the whole rationalist and Effective Altruism (autism) movements have serious fucking bank behind them and tons and tons of "organizations" that are given tons of money under the guise of furthering "AI safety". I've seen some organizational charts and shit on tweeter and if you read through those blog posts and some other shit people have long been concerned that that whole movement would end in violence - the only thing is people were concerned that it would be against AI developers or similar. In this case it just turns out they murdered basically random people?

 

[The Zozzler]

I keep trying to read these rationalist and ziz blogs and I have no idea what they're saying.

Am _I_ the retarded?

“The Multiverse” seems to be by Octavia Nouzen, not Ziz.

Spoiler: tldr of every Ziz essay

Article Title	Thesis
Inconceivable!	Atheist “rock so big” argument is retarded.
Self-Blackmail	Akrasia and the medicalization thereof are both evidence and symptoms of society being made of gaslighting.
Engineering and Hacking your Mind	If you try too many lifehacks your brain will be fucked like a riced out car or Arch Linux PC.
False Faces	The fact that “non-violent communication” needed to be defined is proof normies are all evil at their core.
Treaties vs Fusion	If you desire multiple things, you would be better off integrating those desires into one another somehow.
Narrative Breadcrumbs vs Grizzly Bear	You don't actually “have” some worldview if you can't maintain it when the chips are down.
Optimizing Styles	Lore: Ziz became an atheist around the same time as becoming vegan.
Judgement Extrapolation	Have you fooled yourself about your values, solidifying some heuristic as absolute Truth?
DRM’d Ontology	Tragedy of the Commons & Gaslighting
Social Reality	Society coerces people to pretend that untrue things are true, such as that meat-eating is ethical.
The Slider Fallacy	Don't fall into the trap of thinking two values can't be got together. Maybe you could sacrifice some 3rd value to get more of the 2 you care about (e.g. fast/cheap/good trichotomy). Maybe these sacrifices could be done intelligently to get a lot for a little.
Single Responsibility Principle for the Human Mind	If you deceive yourself to deceive others, often enough, it will begin to catch up with you and fuck up your actual effectiveness in the real world.
Ancient Wisdom Fixed	You could reasonably “worry” during actual threat analysis (unlike conventional wisdom to “never worry”).
Subagents Are Not a Metaphor	Exploration of the idea of “subagents”, trains of thought and/or emotion that could be at least somewhat factored out of a given mind.
Don’t Fight your Default Mode Network	If you were less internally judgemental about “wasting time”, you might realize there's purpose and wisdom behind your actions.
Being Real or Fake	Every time you fail to do your duty, that was intentional. Start being aware of how you're bullshitting people, if only so you can stop bullshitting yourself.
My Journey to the Dark Side	At the end of the day, compliance to every external value has to have come from within.
Cache Loyalty	Watch out for conclusions that you came to long ago, but don't have epistemics on anymore. This applies also to morality.
Mana	The more “spoons” you have, the more of a non-domestic-abuser you have the potential to be.
Fusion	What it might mean to “integrate those desires into one another” as suggested in Treaties vs Fusion.
Schelling Reach	The more thought we can count on from each other, the more we can make Schelling points serve us.
Schelling Orders	Schelling points are often subjective, in ways that can be modeled, reasoned about, and possibly manipulated.
Justice	Applications of Schelling points as moral landscape.
Neutral and Evil	If sufficient indifference to the reader's values qualifies something as “Evil”, where do we draw that line? — All the way back at “Good”, of course,; Neutral isn't coherent unless you are just pretending to be a moral realist in order to get the people around you to act a certain way.
Spectral Sight and Good	Anarchists are uniquely good at reading peoples' vibes, maaan. / What you do when not even God is watching, is who you are.
Aliveness	Categories of person, based on how they react to the horrors of life, mortality, and the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.
O’Brien Technique	If you live in an environment where you have to “believe” certain lies, consider developing lightweight mental shorthand to help you track those separately from actual facts.
Choices Made Long Ago	Actions are eternal and timeless; this includes every Sin. Who are you?
Lies About Honesty	Everyone's bullshitting about morality; no-one really believes the philosophical arguments.
Assimilation	Consider running new theories in a “sandbox” rather than trying and failing to really “believe” them right away. This may be useful whether or not the theory was good.
Hero Capture	The concept of a “Hero” is a Schelling point, and an artifact from our evolutionary history.
Vampires and More Undeath	Categories of person, based on how they react to the horrors of life, mortality, and the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.
Gates	I almost regretted not bailing on my ideology.
Good Erasure	Society rewards “seeming” good, not actually striving to make the world a better place.
Punching Evil	Nazis do not deserve the protection of law.
Net Negative	You would have a better shot at improving the world if you don't write off your goddamn potential to do so.
Rationalist Fleet	Lore: Ziz meets “Jasper Gwenn” Danielson (not trans at the time); Ziz meets Jacob “Jane” “Fluttershy” Pekarek. Ziz proposes living in a boat.
Good Group and Pasek’s Doom	Lore: Gwen fails to pay loan back to Ziz. Ziz discovers MIRI paid out to statutory rape blackmail. Ziz meets Chris “Maia” Pasek. Ziz disowns family.
Intersex Brains and Conceptual Warfare	Lore: Michael Vassar annoyed and astonished to discover blackmail payout was authorized. Ziz meets Zack M. Davis. Ziz complains about some of Yudkowsky's fiction.
The Matrix is A System	Society is gaslighting you.
Troll Line in the First Post	There is no duty of good faith to someone in bad faith. No meaning of it even.
Fangs and the Sunlight Problem	Biologically obligate carnivores should embrace veganism on principle.

Prostitution was illegal. But pornography was legal. Both involved people being paid to have sex. The difference was, both people were being paid? Or there was a camera or something? So what if I created, “Uber for finding actors, film crews, film equipment for making pornography”? Would that let me de facto legalize prostitution, and take a cut via network effects? An Uber-like rating system for sex workers and clients would probably be a vast improvement as well.

[Jane “Fluttershy” Pekarek] asked me to lie on the ground and stare into her eyes, saying this would release oxytocin. Part of me was weirdly hesitant to say no to any request from her. Part of me was like, this is creepy attempted mind control. But that sounded like mostly-placebo BS. My cached flinch response to failed mind control, formed of imagining optimal responses to fictional scenarios, was, “pretend it’s working, see what opportunities their reliance on the expectation you are their slave opens up.” And this thought sort of placated that part of me that was scared of her. And I agreed. But I positioned myself so that there were the legs of a table between us.

On a higher level, so many MIRICFAR affiliates have defended the statutory rapes as okay, because they were consensual. Because they were harboring runaways. Because the overall experience was educational. I heard multiple say Eliezer had no sexual charisma, how could he be mind controlling [then minor Elizabeth “Eli” Morningstar] into sex? Eli was particularly high mana as a kid. The mind control was the other way around!

If they believed that, why not just say so? Why pay out to blackmail to cover it up? Because they believed the state would unjustly punish them? If they were defining their morality in opposition to the state, why didn’t they let that sink in, and realize they were spies, and compute what else that required of them?

 

[Slideshow Bill]

God may have made my enemies a little too ridiculous.

With Mr Lasoto and Ms Zajko in custody, this likely means the cult's chapter will come to close.

Every horror movie has a bloodier sequel.

 

[Vecr]

https://web.archive.org/web/20230402164136/https://sinceriously.fyi/intersex-brains-and-conceptual-warfare/

He describes a fictional more morally advanced civilization that decided to allow rape (with some hedging; in the future it’s assumed that people are domesticated, kind, mentally stable enough that rape doesn’t cause psychological damage or something like that, and they are portrayed taking for granted rape from our time was heinous…)

Somehow this might actually be true, anyone want to check my interpretation? https://web.archive.org/web/2023040...ts/HawFh7RvDM4RyoJ2d/three-worlds-collide-0-8 (by Yudkowsky)

“The Multiverse” seems to be by Octavia Nouzen, not Ziz.

Where is it though? https://archive.is/krG3b is the only archive archive.is claims to have, but it's a 404 again.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230403015054/https://sinceriously.fyi/trash-can/

"What’s your probability as a reader of my blog that the multiverse post isn’t a post at all but a meta joke about how you’re supposed to scry what’s in it?"
Either it's fake, or we're being multi-level trolled.

 

[neger psykolog]

I don't think any rationalist is smart and I know I could handily defeat them in any physical competition.

It kind of feels like whenever I hear about them they're mostly spending their time talking about smart stuff if that makes sense?
I rarely find anything they speak about interesting (although some of the earlier offshoots to do with actual technology were interesting) and effective altruism on ended up being hyper bizarre compared to what it was supposed to be.

I was reading some tech niggas website the other day and was surprised to see that he was successful but also still adhering to the EA thing of giving away a third of his income or some shit. I guess there is no harm in that

 

[The Zozzler]

Where is it though?

on Octavia's blog (archived).
Didn't mention it since really nothing to report from it, just some hippie schizo spiritualposting about reincarnation and (recurring theme of both Ziz and Octavia) vaguely implying that only vegans have any chance of solving/breaking the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

---

… so many MIRICFAR affiliates have defended the statutory rapes as okay, because they were consensual. Because they were harboring runaways. Because the overall experience was educational …

presumably unrelated (archived) — this is a post by a pooner, no leads on deadname but it may be out there:

After all, what does one have to gain by saying something incendiary like "I was introduced to sex by an adult, as a child, and I think that this was straightforwardly good for me, actually"? The few times I have seen an otherwise-apparently-happy-and-well-adjusted adult make a credible claim along those lines, they were subsequently screamed at, excoriated, gaslit, condescended-to, told that they were a victim, told that they were stupid, told that they were sick, told that they were evil, told that they were enabling child molesters, interrogated and pressured to give up the name of whoever-it-was, kicked out of various social and professional circles, and generally treated as liars or mocked for how they are obviously in denial about their own suffering and brokenness (their stable, fulfilling adult lives and livelihoods and relationships apparently notwithstanding). And given that this is the obvious, predictable-in-advance outcome of any such disclosure, most people who might be in a position to say such a thing simply don't bother. To the extent that these people are out there, they have no incentive whatsoever to disillusion the rest of us. Which is bad news for those of us who want to understand the actual state of affairs!

 

[Vecr]

Didn't mention it since really nothing to report from it, just some hippie schizo spiritualposting about reincarnation and (recurring theme of both Ziz and Octavia) vaguely implying that only vegans have any chance of solving/breaking the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

It fits the theme, but how do we know this is "the" multiverse post? For all you know I could have written something a few years ago and that's the "real" one.

Spoiler: long

It would have been Anders Sandberg instead, but you get the point.

 

[Greedy Fly]

For a hilarious history of the whole Rat scene I highly recommend this series of blog posts that starts with Yudkowski in the 90s and explains the whole scene in accurate but actually readable posts.

Nice summary, I especially like how he keeps adding postscripts about stuff like Ziz and the FTX implosion.

I think these guys (not just the Zizians but the whole amorphous Rationalist blob) skew above average intelligence, but we're talking like, as intelligent as your typical UMC college-educated professional, not the "only people smart enough to save the world from the robot apocalypse" they like to frame themselves as.* As people who structure their entire ego around intelligence, they predictably place waaaay to much importance on it and assume enough intelligence can accomplish anything (for example, Yud's belief that fast take-off AI will be so smart it can instantly invent nanomachines without ever having to experiment).

*Wow, it is so weird that Zizians/MIRI/CFAR/Vassarites keep telling themselves the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity that only they are uniquely suited for, and then people keep destroying their lives, donating obscene amounts of money, and having mental breakdowns under this presumed responsibility. Hashtag not a cult.

EDIT:

In August 2022, he faked his death (Archive), with Borhanian and his sister Naomi LaSota reporting that they saw him fall off his boat:

I just have to mention this isn't even the first time I've seen a tranny cult leader fake their death by lying to their family and pretending to drown. Of course, that other one was ftm instead of mtf, and started her cult on primarily Lord of the Rings fanfiction rather than Harry Potter.

 

[pursuitsnail]

For a hilarious history of the whole Rat scene I highly recommend this series of blog posts that starts with Yudkowski in the 90s and explains the whole scene in accurate but actually readable posts.

I remember way back, somewhere around 2010, hearing that rationalists were not who you thought they were and not who they presented themselves to be. Something was going on, but I was not expecting people who previously seemed otherwise sane and normal ending up with drug and cult induced psychosis who believed rival teams in the same institution were casting hexes on them to give them mind demons.

"Conformity is traumatizing!" cries the guy who wants to get people in his high control group stoned as fuck all on psychedelics and tell them about the AI apocalypse. No fucking shit people ended up needing professional help after that. "Maybe don't go to a party and do drugs with Vassar/these guys" is comically underplaying it.

 

[BottledCrab]

As people who structure their entire ego around intelligence, they predictably place waaaay to much importance on it and assume enough intelligence can accomplish anything (for example, Yud's belief that fast take-off AI will be so smart it can instantly invent nanomachines without ever having to experiment).

The guy makes a similar and pertinent argument in his blog.

[...]Vastly superior intelligence does not always win; humans are frequently defeated by animals or even insects with physical or environmental advantages. On the other hand, the more powerful such a superintelligence becomes, the less likely it is to perceive us as a threat.

Given all the above, the belief that immediately after we create an alien, it necessarily can and will promptly bootstrap itself into a god ... a pretty reasonable description for any entity which can casually exterminate humanity and/or render the Earth into gray-goo cheese ... seems not merely religious but faintly ridiculously so. [...]

 

[Greedy Fly]

Vastly superior intelligence does not always win; humans are frequently defeated by animals or even insects with physical or environmental advantages.

I saw that, it was a nice touch right after mentioning the Liu Cixin novels, which use insects for the exact same example.

High IQ people have, on average, better life outcomes such as income and health. But that's just on average, so thousands of intelligent people still fuck up their lives every day. I believe it's actually a common thing for cults to prey on intelligent people who think they're "too smart to fall for it,."

Should probably also note that no amount of gray matter in your childhood is going to help once you decide to swiss cheese it with drugs.

 

[AllieKat]

So are these trannies being held without bail?

 

[VF-1S Valkyrie]

So are these trannies being held without bail?

Yup. Sanity prevails for once, they're the absolute essence of a flight risk.

 

[daffodils]

this is a post by a pooner

Pretty sure that's just a pudgy autist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QQEHUI1BUQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=284_dY3_u6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uXxpzdScRE

The confusion probably stems from him being hitched to Yudkowski's ex-wife Brienne, now a pooner named Logan. NSFL evidence of the two of them together.

 

[pursuitsnail]

I saw that, it was a nice touch right after mentioning the Liu Cixin novels, which use insects for the exact same example.

High IQ people have, on average, better life outcomes such as income and health. But that's just on average, so thousands of intelligent people still fuck up their lives every day. I believe it's actually a common thing for cults to prey on intelligent people who think they're "too smart to fall for it,."

Should probably also note that no amount of gray matter in your childhood is going to help once you decide to swiss cheese it with drugs.

It's like a singularity of all the tendencies and personality traits that cause people to fall off the deep end:

• People with trans identities often present with mental illness, paraphilias, autism, and dark triad personality traits. They also seem to do a lot of drugs.
• Vegans tend to have a strict black and white morality and a desire to punish nonbelievers- sometimes to absurd degrees and with alarming bloodlust.
• Autists, who also tend toward black and white thinking, tardrage, difficulty with theory of mind, and main character syndrome.

Rationalism and effective altruism seems to have given them delusions of grandeur, a savior complex, apocalyptic thinking, and indulged their drug habits by dressing it up as a necessary means to become what they needed to be in order to save the world.

Oh, and Harry Potter fan fiction.

 

[Coo Coo Bird]

New York Post picked it up. Of course, they're using the pronouns these serial tards 'identify' as, but maybe that'll just peak more normies. Well, they actually only use the preferred pronouns of the troons. The little pooner keeps getting gendered as female. LOL.

Wayback won't let me archive the page.

They seem to be using the legal names and genders involved, so they're calling Borhanian 'she' and LaSota 'he' with a brief disclaimer about them being trannies, which is still cucked but less annoying than all those news sites just referring to them as women.

NY Post's sleazy nature makes them actually a pretty good fit for this story. They know that their beliefs are ridiculous and make for good entertainment, so they try to at least briefly explain them:

Both investigators and people who know the Zizians told The Post many of them have been estranged from their parents, some are thought to be on the autism spectrum and that they are an anti-sex group who take hormones for their gender transitions.

The Zizians are involved in esoteric practices like “unihemispheric sleep”— a practice not dissimilar to hypnosis where adherents are told to sleep with one eye open in a state of chronic exhaustion.

The practice is meant to prove the two hemispheres of the brain are distinct identities, with one side thought to be female and one male, one side thought to be good and the other evil. They two sides “often desire to kill each other,” according to Lasota’s blog.

“They talk as if they really believe they have supernatural powers and they believe movies like ‘The Matrix’ are real and they can manipulate reality,” an investigator familiar with the Zizians told The Post.

I've seen some organizational charts and shit on tweeter and if you read through those blog posts and some other shit people have long been concerned that that whole movement would end in violence - the only thing is people were concerned that it would be against AI developers or similar. In this case it just turns out they murdered basically random people?

Not random people, people who personally inconvenienced them and they justified their murders because their ultimate goal was to save the world.

*Wow, it is so weird that Zizians/MIRI/CFAR/Vassarites keep telling themselves the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity that only they are uniquely suited for, and then people keep destroying their lives, donating obscene amounts of money, and having mental breakdowns under this presumed responsibility. Hashtag not a cult.

Yeah, the thing that pretty much every news source, no matter how left or right wing, seems to be ignoring is that the Zizians just took Rationalist and Effective Altruists beliefs to their logical conclusion. The hemispheres are their own weird idea, but there are effective altruists out there arguing you can't be against rape unless you're vegan.

 

[Commander Suzdal]

https://web.archive.org/web/20230402164136/https://sinceriously.fyi/intersex-brains-and-conceptual-warfare/

Somehow this might actually be true, anyone want to check my interpretation? https://web.archive.org/web/2023040...ts/HawFh7RvDM4RyoJ2d/three-worlds-collide-0-8 (by Yudkowsky)

Here's the section about legalizing rape (it's in Chapter 4):



"Three Worlds Collide" is about humans making first contact, pretty much simultaneously, with two alien species whose moral systems are vastly different from ours. Partway through you get this WTF moment where the humans in the story, like Akton, don't understand why rape was ever illegal - I don't think it has anything to do with the rest of the plot.