YABookgate

[Elwood P. Dowd]

You want a bad modern Space Rome, pick up Ann Leckie or John Scalzi.

Was Leckie the one who uses feminine pronouns for everything and everyone? With hilarity like "she stroked her luxurious beard" occasionally popping up?

And Scalzi, dear god...

“The Fflict recognized five genders: male, female, zhial, yal, and neuter. Aul was zhial, and ze liked zis pronouns accurately stated. I would too, in zis position.”
― John Scalzi, The End of All Things

...Imagine this sort of language stretched to novel length. Pseudo-Rome strikes me as the least of the problems here, assuming this is in that series.

 

[Boston Brand]

Was Leckie the one who uses feminine pronouns for everything and everyone? With hilarity like "she stroked her luxurious beard" occasionally popping up?

And Scalzi, dear god...

...Imagine this sort of language stretched to novel length. Pseudo-Rome strikes me as the least of the problems here, assuming this is in that series.

Leckie is one of a whole host of interchangeable, childless middle-aged women writing awful space opera where the boldest thing they introduce is bad pronouns.

Case in point, for bad space Rome, I'd meant to mention Arkady Martine, not Leckie. Or as put by an editor at a convention bar:

"Martine has some of the most beautiful covers in the genre today. Shame about the books between them."

And Scalzi... (shudders)

15 LONG years of this crap, and people wonder why I latch onto authors like Christopher Ruocchio like a life preserver.

 

[Flaming Carrot]

This is true. Where do you think ARC Press secured its funding from? Peter Thiel's network is bleeding Baen dry. Much of the energy and talent has already left them behind the scenes. Expect to see a lot of press releases about a "promising new sci-fi imprint" in the coming year.

So does ARC press have bookstore distribution? An advertising budget? I'm always happy to see a new publisher, but I worry this might be something where they publish fifth rate ripoffs of Starship Troopers that you can only buy through a Kickstarter, but they'll insist that by paying 50 bucks for a paperback book you're owning the libs.

 

[Elwood P. Dowd]

So does ARC press have bookstore distribution?

Good question. Especially since even the biggest of "independent" publishers go through the Big 4 and a half for this. Baen even has a page on the Simon & Schuster website. Kensington uses (I think) Random House. And B&N isn't going to touch you without being to return any and all unsold product. In whatever condition it is in when returned. §

Spoiler: § - Sperging when I should be working

§ - To my old accountant's nose, this smells like a consignment arrangement and not a true sale. But it has been industry practice since at least the Great Depression. I doubt bookstores would last six months if they had to follow a traditional definition of the word "sale." Ironically when Borders went kerfluie the publishers tried to argue the books on the shelves were theirs since title had never truly passed under this "unlimited right of return" concept and they should not be considered an asset in bankruptcy. Sadly for the publishers the court did not agree.

For my next trick I'll bore you with why books go out of print so quickly, or did before PoD. Thor Power Tool v Commissioner etc.

 

[Big Judge Cock]

I used to read Scalzi but gave up after he rewrote one of his books from the perspective of another character, a teenage girl. I think the follow up was a selection of short stories from the same setting, which I figured was because he'd run out of ideas. I also used to read Hamilton before he they/them'd his works.

I tried a Leckie book long ago, before I realised I can't just choose at random, and got as far as the part where the strong woman put all the men in their place and everyone stood up and clapped. I've not looked her up before, but having seen what she looks like I understand now.

I don't really read fiction any more...

 

[asceticHedonist]

The incessant identity politics, pronoun bullshit, and Scalzi make me wonder: Does anyone know of any public source in which a publishing professional has actually confirmed the rumors that many agents and publishers have policies of turning down debuts from white guys?

I'm aware of a few articles in which writers provide hearsay to that effect, but I don't know of any insiders actually letting it slip or just outright admitting it.

 

[Hirbowedge]

Tell that to LitRPG writers and readers.

As far as I'm concerned, that's a genre that blends two media together while losing the best of both. The subtle character development of a good novel is replaced with a character sheet, and the ability of the TTRPG player to profoundly affect the direction of the story is lost by virtue of it being a novel.

It becomes an even shittier version of Choose Your Own Adventure.

When I heard about the change, I immediately assumed it was just a brute-force way of ending support for the oldest Kindle devices. They made them too well, I guess. Forgot to plan the obsolescence. Or maybe this is the planned obsolescence.

The prevalence of LitRPG in the webnovel space fucking sucks. I don't know, maybe some people here read them as well, maybe they are enjoyable/well written if you can get into them, but they seem so devoid of any literary worth from the outset.
It's sad that the freedom provided by the format of webnovels mostly leads to this shit.

So @Commissar Fuklaw I can't reply directly...

My read on the intro to the first Sun Eater book feeling like Kingkiller is that may have been forced on Ruocchio by DAW editorial. He has the same publisher as Rothfuss, and unlike Rothfuss, he's actually writing books, so...

It's an issue with a lot of DAW titles in the late 2010s. They'd sunk millions into Patrick Rothfuss, and he was even by this point clearly never going to write another book, so they tried to MAKE the next Rothfuss.

Rothfuss wishes he had a fraction of Ruocchio's talent. Thankfully after those few opening bits, Ruocchio stops the imitation entirely. Not the least of which, book 7 comes out this year, and we actually WILL get to see a Sun get eaten.

As for the Dune comparisons, I think they're accidental. Ruocchio had admitted in interviews he intentionally avoided rereading Frank Herbert or Orson Scott Card and other authors who tackled similar epic space opera to avoid accidentally pulling stuff. Some of these things are just what happens when you write epic space opera (ie there are only so many ways to get around lightspeed to name an example).

Space Rome you got him dead blank, but it works because Ruocchio clearly knows his shit regarding the history and myth of Rome, because he does it damn near better than any other author I've seen.

You want a bad modern Space Rome, pick up Ann Leckie or John Scalzi.

I have to say, when I asked for recommendations like a year or two ago, you recommended Ruocchio. I didn't read his books because I wanted a finished series, but now I am seeing his name everywhere.
I already had given you credit as someone who knows what he's talking about but damn, it's been strongly confirmed.

 

[Fandom Pulse]

The incessant identity politics, pronoun bullshit, and Scalzi make me wonder: Does anyone know of any public source in which a publishing professional has actually confirmed the rumors that many agents and publishers have policies of turning down debuts from white guys?

I'm aware of a few articles in which writers provide hearsay to that effect, but I don't know of any insiders actually letting it slip or just outright admitting it.

I spoke with an agent at a conference back in 2019 who told me this directly for the YA Market. It's a major literary agent but he cannot go on the record even having talked to me or it could jeopardize his career. It's confirmed.

 

[Boston Brand]

The incessant identity politics, pronoun bullshit, and Scalzi make me wonder: Does anyone know of any public source in which a publishing professional has actually confirmed the rumors that many agents and publishers have policies of turning down debuts from white guys?

I'm aware of a few articles in which writers provide hearsay to that effect, but I don't know of any insiders actually letting it slip or just outright admitting it.

Oh, one hundred percent, they're both very open and utterly shameless about this.

It's why the indies and midmajors are growing so fast - trad publishers have literally cut themselves off from the majority of writers... and increasingly, readers.

 

[Three Gorillion Dollars]

The incessant identity politics, pronoun bullshit, and Scalzi make me wonder: Does anyone know of any public source in which a publishing professional has actually confirmed the rumors that many agents and publishers have policies of turning down debuts from white guys?

I'm aware of a few articles in which writers provide hearsay to that effect, but I don't know of any insiders actually letting it slip or just outright admitting it.

It's an open secret. I was advised by an author friend of mine to use a minority friend's identity when submitting as agent bait, essentially, as that would be more likely to get me signed. The idea being that they reject white guy sounding names sight unseen, but it's a much harder job to turn you down if they've said they like your manuscript before they know that you're not a heckin' valid BIPOC queer person.

You can also look at that kerfuffle with James Patterson who expressed similar concerns on Twitter and he was basically harangued into "clarifying" what he meant.

 

[Rezza]

The prevalence of LitRPG in the webnovel space fucking sucks. I don't know, maybe some people here read them as well, maybe they are enjoyable/well written if you can get into them, but they seem so devoid of any literary worth from the outset.
It's sad that the freedom provided by the format of webnovels mostly leads to this shit.

You're not the only one who have this thought
Let's be honest here, the majority of LitRPG in existence are not even a slop, they're outright trash, a noise at best. They barely have any literary value, if at all. Most of them are just a checklist of scenes for whatever fantasy the author has at that moment, hence why they're both structurally and narratively similar all the time

And it only got worse because troglodytes think just because they can operate a fancy machine to spew out words at random, they think they're equal to the literary greats and have to be treated like one

 

[Commissar Fuklaw]

I had a listen to the first chapter of Howling Dark. Holy crap is it an improvement. Much, much, much better and even despite not knowing who, what, when and why, I was engaged. I would have no problem if this had been the first book with the same prologue gist (but better written by being in line with this novel) and the story was some bloke was on his way to finding a diplomatic solution to a war that somehow results in killing his Emperor. I found it funny it started with a 'just woken up' trope.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

I fucking hate LitRPG. These fucking stupid hacks are basically just reinventing Tron but with more weebshit and D&D/Dragon Quest autism. I enjoy Sword Art Online as a very-guilty pleasure but even I don't want to hateread LitRPG swill.

 

[Hirbowedge]

The first isekai manga (which is basically the same thing as LitRPG) I've read was great. I think it was Log Horizon. As a novel concept, it was very engaging. Maybe I've enjoyed a couple more here and there.

But it's been 10 years since then. And there is an unbelievable amount of it. It's depressing to imagine there are people out there whose recreational reading consists solely of escapist LitRPG power fantasies.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

The first isekai manga (which is basically the same thing as LitRPG) I've read was great. I think it was Log Horizon. As a novel concept, it was very engaging. Maybe I've enjoyed a couple more here and there.

But it's been 10 years since then. And there is an unbelievable amount of it. It's depressing to imagine there are people out there whose recreational reading consists solely of escapist LitRPG power fantasies.

Isekai differs from LitRPG because plenty of isekai doesn't have in-universe character stats and other such tardation. LitRPG is the most tasteless genre imaginable and I would think anyone who would actually be into it is too illiterate to even read.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

Wish they would at least go the Konosuba route and take the piss out of it.

 

[Commissar Fuklaw]

The first isekai manga (which is basically the same thing as LitRPG) I've read was great. I think it was Log Horizon. As a novel concept, it was very engaging. Maybe I've enjoyed a couple more here and there.

I love Log Horizon. Its all downhill from there because it's written as an actual story with some actual and sometimes quite clever thought behind it and the gay anime/manga tropes are kept to a respectable minimum. It's a shame the author got into tax trouble and stopped writing it.

 

[Road Work Ahead]

It's a shame the author got into tax trouble and stopped writing it

At least he was arrested for something as based as tax evasion, not the usual things Japanese authors/mangaka are arrested for.

 

[Briananderson1138]

It's an open secret. I was advised by an author friend of mine to use a minority friend's identity when submitting as agent bait, essentially, as that would be more likely to get me signed. The idea being that they reject white guy sounding names sight unseen, but it's a much harder job to turn you down if they've said they like your manuscript before they know that you're not a heckin' valid BIPOC queer person.

So you’re telling me that if I want to get published, I should just change my name to ”Miguel Sanchez”, pretend to be a really high-caste Mexican, and act super effeminate? Hmmm...

 

[Atypical Dog]

I love Log Horizon. Its all downhill from there because it's written as an actual story with some actual and sometimes quite clever thought behind it and the gay anime/manga tropes are kept to a respectable minimum. It's a shame the author got into tax trouble and stopped writing it.

He was probably trying an exploit in real life like his characters exploit the game parts of the real game world.

Glad you liked Howling Dark by the way!