The term derives from Vlad Nabokov's book "Lolita", where Lolita was a woman's name. This became "lolita complex", which the Japs found so useful they contracted it to "lolicon". "Loli" is a term used largely by English to refer to the kinds of girls you see in lolicon. Nabokov's book was about pedophilia. The term has ALWAYS been rooted in pedophilia. Anything else is anhistorical cope. Japanese culture is littered with the presumption that "young = attractive", reified in eg. "bishounen".
It's always been pedophilia to call girls lolis. Always. And the people posting lolicon on 8chan were the same IPs, according to Null, who would post CSAM. At absolute best it is a cover that actual pedophiles use to pretend that they're not into children.
You should ask our leading expert on all things Loli-related and associated. He has years of expertise and research on this matter and has proven time and time again to be the leading voice of the field.
Lolita was written in 1955 by Vladimir Nabokov. It told the tale of a grown man fixated on girls aged 9-14, eventually becoming obsessed and starting a physical and romantic relationship with his landlady's 12-year-old daughter after becoming her stepfather. It's a very famous work that was well-known and referenced in multiple cultures before the anime craze and borrowed terms.
The term in Japan has long held such connotations well beyond even the start of this forum. In particular, lolicon refers to the predilection for young anime girls, while loli was more of a generic term for little anime girls in general. Gothic Lolita is a particular fashion style, as well. It's something within the last decade or so in the West that has become super creepy and a massive problem, the term pretty much exclusively referring to the predilection.
In terms of connotations, from that lens? Yes it has always such connections. Does that necessarily mean it's nefarious or weird? Not necessarily, it has in the past especially and still is sometimes just used as a humorous term. I understand it raising eyebrows or causing discomfort for people seeing it even used innocently, however.
I've got to appreciate that every fucking time I look at this thread, some group of retards is sperging about Zelensky. Just marry the dude, and fuck off.
It's gotten hard to make any real good posts that'll even get a highlight cause 5 pages go by with little flame wars over not just ukraine but all sorts of loli nonsense. I'm adding to that I know here, but damn.
It's gotten hard to make any real good posts that'll even get a highlight cause 5 pages go by with little flame wars over not just ukraine but all sorts of loli nonsense. I'm adding to that I know here, but damn.
Loli, at the very least, is an actual issue that is part of US culture war between the old-style-internet enjoyers, boomers, moralists, and anime fans. It's still probably off topic, but less egregiously so.
Lolita was written in 1955 by Vladimir Nabokov. It told the tale of a grown man fixated on girls aged 9-14, eventually becoming obsessed and starting a physical and romantic relationship with his landlady's 12-year-old daughter after becoming her stepfather. It's a very famous work that was well-known and referenced in multiple cultures before the anime craze and borrowed terms.
It's Japanese for softcore. A girl in a bikini? Ecchi. Panty shot? Ecchi. Bathing scene? Ecchi. It means "dirty" or "naughty" or "sexy." A cute girl might call you "ecchi" if you end up in a compromising situation with her. You might scream ecchi if you see her in a bikini later.
But that's an odd word. It's written in Katakana. エッチ. Etchi. Why would it be written in Katana, like a non-Japanese word?
Well, lets look at it as a verb. Ecchisuru. "To have sex." Ｈする. Wait, what?
Ecchi is the phonetic spelling of H. "H" is slang in Japan that refers to sex. "H-Suru." "Ecchi-Suru." Ecchi. Or maybe "H-shiin." H-Scene. Ecchi Scene. Sex scene.
But why is H slang for "sex?"
Well, it turns out it's the shortening of a word. Japan likes to do that. This time they shorted it to a single letter. H. What H word?
変態, of course. Hentai. As we all know, Hentai means anime porn. But it more specifically means "degenerate and abnormal sexual interest." It's a very derogatory word with very insulting connotations, if my understanding is correct. You use it to call someone a pervert when you mean to make sure they know you think they're a disgusting freak.
And if you're a flirty husband or housewife you might call your husband a pervert -- Hentai -- and then shorten it to H later so you're not calling him what amounts to a slur.
変態 becomes H. H becomes エッチ.
That's how Japan's slang word for fanservice came originally from "Hentai."
Why do I mention this, other than it's some fun trivia?
Because it's my impression the exact same thing happened with loli.
Lolita Complex became ロリコン.
Otaku, including some lolicons, start using Loli to refer to young girls, as well as shortening lolicon to just loli.
This spreads to all references to young looking girls, not just lolicon smut.
And it then spreads over here to the West via 4chan et all.
So does that mean it has pedo connotations? Maybe. I admit I find people using the term a bit odd. I'm not a scholar of Japanese degeneracy, my dipping my toes into the pool really ends at the classic amongst classics: "Hadaka Apron." ("Naked Apron." When your wife makes you breakfast in nothing but an apron. A classic.)
But does calling your boyfriend Ecchi because he sneaks a pinch on your bum before running out the door for work mean you're calling him an "abnormal sexual deviant?" Or even that you're randomly screaming "sex" at him? Or has that word gained different connotations due to linguistic drift?
Is it possible "loli" has gained different connotations due to linguistic drift? I always thought it had.
Just a thought.
I will say that I was there, in the trenches, with the shitting dicknipples and Crying Freeman and Doomed Megalopolis copies on VHS. Loli was slang. It meant girl. It also could mean "lolicon" and one got used to avoiding that particular moon rune combination, cause it was gross seeing what some of the Japanese artists got up to. And a not insignificant amount of the anime and manga that I've watched have used the term just to mean girl.
And of course, we have the flip side, where the Antis are taking shit like Uzaki-chan (College Student, double F cup breasts, huge eyed art style) and claiming that's "loli." Yeah no.
But I do know who we could ask. Lets ask the perverts themselves. Pixiv is the Japanese version of DeviantArt, Furaffinity, and a few other horrific horrific places. It tags everything, and those tags are listed in an encyclopedia. Here's their entry for "loli." I'll quote it here instead of linking to it, since your overly pure eyes aren't ready for that site.
Loli, considered an abbreviation for Lolita, is mostly used either for small characters with a youthful feminine appearance, or sometimes for characters dressed in lolita fashion. When abbreviated as just "loli", its most often to describe small female characters. Due to its nature, the majority of tagged works on pixiv are R-18 or R-18G.
Overview
The term "loli" refers to young looking female characters, The male equivalent is "shota".
Characteristics
Characters described as "loli" usually have some or all of the following traits:
Young age Target characters frequently are given younger ages, often pre-teen.
Small features The target tends to have a small girlish physical features (short height, smaller breasts, a smaller waist)
Youthful face Some characters can have younger-looking facial proportions, giving the impression of a so-called "baby-face".
"Loli" body type
For character design, there is value in creating distinction between male and female characters, even when there is minimal, if any, difference in reality.
For example, a real prepubescent girl's body shape is flat vertical line and featureless with a small torso or round protruding stomach. However, by adding more pronounced hips and tapering legs, a more feminine appeal can be created while retaining a cute appearance.
Lolicon and Pedophilia
The term lolicon (lolita complex) is often conflated with pedophilia (an attraction to children). And the term "loli" is often mistakenly treated as synonymous with "child", and its appeal is mistakenly viewed as being equivalent to pedophilia. Sometimes, the term "loli" (and the Japanese term it is transliterated from, ロリ) is used as an abbreviation for the term "lolicon", breeding further confusion.
The term "loli" is neither universally used with a sexual connotation, nor is it always associated with biological age. Sometimes, it is merely used as a term of endearment, and often, characters that are young looking but otherwise of age are also called lolis. Some characters, just like human people, are surprisingly young looking, by virtue of being e.g. shorter and flat chested, but have otherwise reasonable adult anatomy; these characters are often called "lolibaba" (ロリババア) or on Pixiv, old loli.
tl;dr: They don't even try to say there isn't "R18" (porn) art under the tag. But in the end it appears that it depends. It's not "universally used" with a sexual connotation. Nor does it always refer to someone's age. That seems to adhere to the state of play I thought the word was at.
Also, the Japanese are degenerate and I'm not sure two nukes were enough.
The term derives from Vlad Nabokov's book "Lolita", where Lolita was a woman's name. This became "lolita complex", which the Japs found so useful they contracted it to "lolicon". "Loli" is a term used largely by English to refer to the kinds of girls you see in lolicon. Nabokov's book was about pedophilia. The term has ALWAYS been rooted in pedophilia. Anything else is anhistorical cope. Japanese culture is littered with the presumption that "young = attractive", reified in eg. "bishounen".
This is the most correct, the people saying that it was always japanese for pedophile are wrong.
From what I remember they had things split up into three terms before Lolicon just ended up being used all of the time as it became familiar with westerners. I think it was Lolicon for pubescent girls, then Alicecon for younger than that, but I cant remember the third one. The term alicecon being named after alice from alice in wonderland.
I don’t think @Save the Loli should be vilified for his choice of username, maybe you could argue its in poor choice and Id agree, but I dont recall ever seeing this user post things that were remotely pedophiliac, if he doesnt like Trump (for the record I do) he can have a different opinion as well.
The term derives from Vlad Nabokov's book "Lolita", where Lolita was a woman's name. This became "lolita complex", which the Japs found so useful they contracted it to "lolicon". "Loli" is a term used largely by English to refer to the kinds of girls you see in lolicon. Nabokov's book was about pedophilia. The term has ALWAYS been rooted in pedophilia. Anything else is anhistorical cope. Japanese culture is littered with the presumption that "young = attractive", reified in eg. "bishounen".
It's my schizo-theory that Ayn Rand had something to do with Nabokov's "interests" that lead to him writing Lolita.
His younger sister was a friend of Ayn Rand as both were part of the jewish community of St Petersburg, went to the same school, and both their families fled to Crimea durung the October Revolution, though ended up in different areas. He is only about 6 years older than her, though he himself had a history of being abused (by his uncle) and his grandfather was supposedly groomed by an older woman (marrying the daughter to keep up appearances while he had an affair with the mother), which as is often seen, is a behavious that gets often repeated by the abused.
Additionally, Ayn Rand's first novel, "The Little Street" is about a pedophile and was inspired by a real pedophile, William Edward Hickman, who Rand claimed had a "wonderful sense of living". Oddly though, despite their known contact during youth and the fact both immigrated to the States, Rand and Nabokov never seemed to cross paths again later in life and very strangely rarely commented on each other, all I have seen is that Nabokov once said he'd like to help her "learn to write", whether that is a jab at her abilities or a sly crude joke is up for interpretation.
Rand herself allegedly was known for having afairs with students of hers during her time as a lecturer at the NBI, with her even having an affair with the who who founded it, a man 25 years younger than her, though he was in his 30s, though I can't find the source now, I vividly remember that I have read things before saying she had affairs with teenage boys when she was in her 40's, with one specific case being a 17 year old. Again, this would be an example of an abuised person continuing the pattern onto another unfortunate victim, though some might claim otherwise, it is still a predatory relationship.
There isn't really any smoking gun to say for sure he did, but the coincidences and odd little factoids do seem to create a pattern of abuse. Nabokov has denied being a pedohile after the release of Lolita, but many have doubted this publically for years and it is somewhat accepted that he was at best a closted pedophile, and in the flipside for at worst; see the above
I don’t think @Save the Loli should be vilified for his choice of username, maybe you could argue its in poor choice and Id agree, but I dont recall ever seeing this user post things that were remotely pedophiliac, if he doesnt like Trump (for the record I do) he can have a different opinion as well.
"It's just a prank, bro." I'm not above a joke here and there, but I've seen people permanently banned in my short time here for merely "joking" about it.
Because it quite was popular in the US at the times (it even got a movie adaptation made by Kubrick) and in the late 40s and 50s american cultural influence over Japan was at its peak
I've read it. It's actually a really good book, even with the disturbing subject matter. Nabokov wasn't doing the ol' wink-wink-nudge-nudge when he wrote Lolita. I haven't seen any evidence that he was a pedophile or pro-pedophilia. He himself has stated that Lolita was his favorite book because it took a lot of work to even get into the mindset required to write as Humbert Humbert, the "protagonist" of the novel. It's straight contrived fiction.
There's something inherently sinister about sexual/porn terms becoming "normal" words to describe people in everyday life such as loli, shota, milf, dilf etc. Recently I've noticed that some young, apparently straight men refer to themselves as twinks, even though that was originally a gay porn category for pederasts. Now it's just a word to describe any attractive young man. The same thing has probably happened to loli(con).
Could it all be related to the fact that porn is becoming a bigger part of people's lives with each passing year? Terminally online degenerates set all the trends these days.
Because it quite was popular in the US at the times (it even got a movie adaptation made by Kubrick) and in the late 40s and 50s american cultural influence over Japan was at its peak
