Kelly Lenza / LividLipids / softbodytendermind / ass_child / photopotamus - "Radical body liberationist”, Intentionally Repulsive, Uber woke middle-aged SJW influencer wannabe, doxed her former therapist for getting WLS, ate her way to heart failure

[deputydogshit2.0]

Years ago I read somewhere that if one feels sorry for AND resents their kids at the same time it means they are a shit parent (the article did not say ‘shit,’ but YKWIM).
Kelly to a ‘T’

 

[Sonalee Rashitwar]

Jesus, Kelly. If she’s having that much trouble just getting her kids fed, time to overhaul the approach and proactively plan.

If one or both girls actually is autistic, they might have a limited diet. But this also means they won’t generally mind eating the same thing often! So it’s actually a good idea in that case, to prepare common foods the person may like on a weekly, not daily basis. Spend an hour or two cooking a lot, portion out into containers, tell the 7 and 9 year old to heat it up themselves. Boil eggs instead and they can take one when they’re hungry.

(That’s a common technique for busy immigrants. Kelly stays at home. She’d explode trying to plan and prep all that plus work 70 hour weeks and parent).

 

[glass_houses]

The whole "I need some time to myself to drink coffee but the kids keep hassling me!" is just bullshit. I am a barren middle aged spinster, but even I know that the fastest way to shut children up is to throw food at them.

I can't really add anything that everyone else hasn't already said. The entirety of Kelly's "Woe is me!" post is textbook narcissistic self sabotage; there are so many fucked up things she's doing to ensure that the girls are completely dependent on her, while at the same time she whines about how hard it is to care for them and how much she wants a break from being the centre of their world. The both of them are old enough to pour cereal in a bowl and tip milk in; if Kelly established a basic routine: "You have cereal from Monday to Saturday, no exceptions; Sunday we have fancy cooked breakfast," then that would take the immediate pressure off of her six mornings a week.

Parenting is a hard job, but every (functional) parent I know has always stressed routines as an important part of keeping children and households functioning. Kelly has complained about how controlling her mother was, and in rebellion has gone in the extreme opposite direction... the end result is two girls who are miles behind their peers.

Maddening.

 

[Otterly]

Parenting is a hard job, but every (functional) parent I know has always stressed routines as an important part of keeping children and households functioning.

Yeah, it’s all that works for us. We are flexible of course, but the dinner/bath/story/bed routine in the evenings has been something we’ve stuck to as much as we can, and it has helped enormously. There’s enough chaos with the mess and just the existence of kids; that’s part of family life and I just embrace it, but i don’t need to add extra chaos topping, as it were. Family life without routine is skating close to madness territory.

 

[DefCon Dumb]

For those not parents or who have little experience with children, these next few years should be the best’ for Kelly.

Babies are exhausting and create a Ty of stress. The pace of growth and development is staggering and just when you think you have a good routine going, the baby or toddler develops new abilities that make you re-evaluate what you’re doing and how. Their inability to communicate well doesn’t help.

Once the hormones hit as young teens, family life can become chaotic and again, you don’t feel too comfortable as a parent much of the time.

At the age of Kelly’s kids, the pace of change is much slower and the kids can increasingly do more more. Provided they have a good, REGULAR routine, kids increasingly eager to engage in their world and try new things. AND.., they’re still young enough to value what you say.

Kelly is throwing away her best opportunity to develop rock solid bonds, to enjoy the rewarding feeling of teaching kids something and the generally more relaxed years of family life.

And without the security of reliable routines, parents you can count on and a nurturing environment, she’s setting the girls up for failure.

 

[Sonalee Rashitwar]

The lack of parenting actually pisses me off, because not only is she actively cruel to and ignores the kids, she isn’t even teaching them things they need! It’s the harsh approach of tiger parenting without even teaching the skills and independence one gets with tiger parenting.

It’s a testament to both how lazy Kelly is, and how an organized, driven parent can do so well with kids, that a friend’s parent was able to be the “safe” house for my group of five teenagers growing up, cook, and look after me for a while while also working 70 hours a week.

What is Kelly doing with 70 hours?

 

[YouTube Autist]

Then again, I believe I’m experiencing some PEM myself after reading her drivel. Gotta go lie down.

Yes, reading a Kelly post is a three-spoon ordeal.

the kid has been “eating all day,” which she uses as a direct criticism of/ to the kid

This is, fundamentally, the most perverse thing about this entire rant. Kelly criticizes the kids for behaving irrationally, as if that isn't a natural and inevitable quality of children. She criticizes the kids for behaving badly, as if she, as the parent, doesn't have the power to intercede when her children behave badly. She treats her children like adults in order to absolve herself of responsibility for them.

You can tell she wants the reader to come away thinking, "God, those awful kids. They really put their mom through hell."

What is Kelly doing with 70 hours?

Tending to her nine billion disabilities.

 

[brooky]

If I were feeling charitable, I'd say that we don't, in fact, all have the same hours in a week. Physical disabilities, neurological impairments (like ADHD) can both take up more energy, both physically and mentally. Tasks that seem easy for most people can seem like climbing a mountain for others.

Add to that the brain fog and hormonal and emotional imbalance that comes from being hundreds of pounds overweight. 70 hours just isn't the same for a slender, healthy-brained individual with rational coping mechanisms.

But it's Kelly, so I can't feel charitable. Fuck her. If she put down her phone, weed, and fried chicken for 20 minutes, her life would improve dramatically.

 

[LonesomeDud]

Yeah, we all have different life situations and different things we're willing to give up. Kelly is willing to give up her family.

 

[On a Journey]

Anyway I cleaned up kid #1’s messes from eating a bunch of dilly bars that she peeled all the coating off of and replaced with huge puddles of Hershey’s syrup like multiple times. But she feels hunger and boredom at level 11 starvation panic even though she eats all day long.

Does “level 11 starvation panic” actually mean something or is it just something Kelly made up?
Anyways, I am convinced that neither Kelly nor her daughters have true, neurological, autism spectrum disorder. There are symptoms which are more specific to ASD and then there are symptoms that many autists have but they can also be caused by plenty of other issues (i.e. being physically and emotionally neglected by a Lolcow mother since infancy). The things Kelly complains about her kids doing are almost exclusively in the second category. When they have a tantrum it’s because there is no other way for them to successfully communicate their needs to their mother, not because there is something fundamentally wrong with their communication abilities. When they have meltdowns, it’s because she has obviously failed to meet some need of theirs, not because of sensory overwhelm or a break in their routine.

Kelly’s kids have serious fucking issues and she is clearly the main cause, so she wants it to be autism because that’s something a child is born with rather than the parent’s fault. The weird thing is that she could easily make this narrative more convincing with some simple lies (it’s not as though she’s reluctant to post obvious falsehoods) but doesn’t. This makes me suspect that she may have genuinely convinced herself that at least one of her children has an intristic neurological disorder that she just can’t do anything about and thus it is normal for her and her daughters to be struggling so much. I’m starting to wonder how much of her cluster B behavior Kelly is consciously aware of.

Since I’m already rambling about autism and this thread is apparently full of behavioral therapy experts I have something off-topic and probably way too personal to ask about:

Spoiler: Panicked sperging

I have Asperger’s and always automatically avoided eye contact, so when I was little my mom taught me to sort of look towards other people’s eyes and I thought that was eye contact (not that I even remembered to do it very much when she stopped nagging me about it). I’m now in my twenties and have finally experienced real eye contact and was completely shocked. It’s so fucking intense and kind of terrifying? I think I must have learned as a toddler that it feels bad and subconsciously avoided it because I really can’t remember ever doing this before. From what I’ve read it seems like normal people don’t find it overwhelming the way I do but still, people actually do this shit every day?! All the time???

At first I was deer-in-headlights style stunned every time. Thankfully there are studies about how long is the appropriate time to maintain it (3-4 seconds casually or when in a group and about 7 for a relatively intense 1-on-1 situation) so I can count to avoid breaking it too early (my instinct is to look away immediately) or going too long which is creepy. So I’m there literally counting in my head and people keep looking away exactly when I was about to stop and they apparently aren’t even consciously aware of it? It feels like I studied for a test for days and still struggled the whole time while everyone else just intuitively knew the answers and aced it. Speaking of, why the hell did they not teach me this in those Basic Socializing for Tards classes I went to as a kid?

It feels like I must be doing something wrong but nobody has reacted strangely so maybe I don’t look as insane as I feel. Do they even consciously notice what I’m doing? None of my relatives have said anything. Did everyone I’ve ever interacted with realize that I wasn’t making eye contact or did they just subconsciously perceive that I don’t want to interact without understanding what specifically I did wrong? Did people actually fall for my “looking in the general direction of your eyes” bullshit? It sure as fuck doesn’t feel like the real thing on my end.

Is this why in novels authors will write things like “her eyes lit up” or “there was sadness deep in his eyes”, can you actually see people’s emotions in their eyes? I have been confused by this for my entire life and I still don’t really get it. I thought this was just about the way the facial muscles around the eyes move but idk anymore. Are there signs of emotion I can consciously look for or am I supposed to just automatically see how someone is feeling? Three seconds doesn’t feel long enough to see anything because it takes at least that long to recover from the discomfort it causes me to look directly into someone’s eyes like that. Does that mean people can perceive my fear/discomfort when I’m making eye contact? Or do I just come off as blank because I’m supposed to be subconsciously sending signals and my brain just doesn’t? If so is there even a way to fix it? Is blank, unnatural eye contact more disconcerting than none at all? I’ve been reading about this and the idea of “messages” sent through eye contact keeps coming up. What fucking messages?

If you have answers please respond, I feel like I’m losing my mind and am scared to bring it up to anyone irl. I know this is probably the wrong place to ask about this but I’m not even sure if there’s a right place and am kind of spiraling rn so sorry for the inappropriate posting I guess.

 

[Otterly]

If you have answers please respond

Do not panic. Even normal people find eye contact difficult- I’m middle aged and i still do what you do and still get told off for talking to peoples shoulders or ears. Cest la vie. I am not autistic.
Emotion is expressed in a complex interplay of facial expression and tone, vocal cues and timings. It’s not only the muscles around the eyes but the whole face. The literary examples you give are exactly that - literary licence . The eyeball itself isn’t telegraphing emotion past pupil dilation and movement of the globe/muscles around it.
If you can recognise basic emotions and respond in a way that people find ok, you’re doing ok. Don’t panic. All is well!
Don’t ever move abroad - you’ll realise that all the things you learned don’t apply in different cultures and you’ll feel like a weird alien.
The vast majority of people do not look or listen to other people at all. They simply stop speaking sometimes and think of the next thing they will say. This means they are not thinking about you, or judging you, they barely even notice others.
Like I say, all is well. Do not panic. You are functioning correctly

 

[Accept Only Substitutes]

Is this why in novels authors will write things like “her eyes lit up” or “there was sadness deep in his eyes”, can you actually see people’s emotions in their eyes? I

Yes, but it's not exactly in the eyes, as much as in the muscles around the eyes. I too struggle with this, but this quiz really helped figure out the concept.

Spoiler

This guy is suspicious


This one is panicking


This one is worried

And, no level 11 hunger panic isn't a thing. You can test this for yourself by fasting for 24 hours. You'll get hungry, but the hunger feeling comes in waves and never really gets more intense, unless you get low blood sugar, which you'll know because of getting shakes or headaches or feeling hangry. Then your first instinct is to stuff your face with carbs.

I doubt that's what Kelly meant, unless it was her diabetic kid and if it was, why was she eating sugar in the first place?

 

[UncleTusky]

Does “level 11 starvation panic” actually mean something or is it just something Kelly made up?

The exact term is made up, and other than the cravings @Accept Only Substitutes mentioned it takes on the order of weeks for further side effects of starvation/badly inadequate calorie intake like reduced metabolism and hypotension to appear. In the developed world these are pretty much nonexistent outside of anorexics and people who cannot process food for some reason like GI problems or cancer treatment.

 

[LonesomeDud]

@On a Journey Totally normal to feel very intensely about eye contact. I really enjoy that feeling of intensity and connection when I talk to people, but it doesn't feel benign.

 

[Pho Real]

@On a Journey Totally normal to feel very intensely about eye contact. I really enjoy that feeling of intensity and connection when I talk to people, but it doesn't feel benign.

Eye contact differs a lot between cultures and family backgrounds as well. If you’re raised that maintaining eye contact is a must, it can feel wrong to struggle with it. At the same time, other people who are raised in a culture or family that views eye contact as intimidating can struggle in settings where eye contact is seen as professional and engaged.

Spoiler: PL

As I’ve talked about before, I have a background working with students who are Deaf and hard-of-hearing. In Deaf culture, eye contact is a must. It shows you’re listening as well as conveying a lot of the grammar in ASL. Kids who need ASL but weren’t provided with it early on often struggle with the amount of eye contact. They feel uncomfortable or like they’re being stared at and feel self-conscious. It can also work the other way around; many of us who are hearing and learned ASL later in life have become much less self-conscious and better with prolonged eye contact. You get used to it and it starts to feel natural, and it carries over to your life outside of work as well. (At least in my and some of my colleagues‘ experience). /SPOILER]

 

[MerriedxReldnahc]

Snip

Some people also just have really intense gazes that make even the socially adept among us feel uncomfortable, like how "crazy person eyes" are a thing and how people under a lot of stress show it in the eyes.
Also, narcissists like Kelly have a distinct "flatness" to their eyes, it's hard to put into words but Kelly has a look that immedietly says "avoid this person at all costs" (though her stank probably does a good enough job at that already!)

 

[brooky]

people actually do this shit every day?!

Yes.

All the time???

No.

Long, sustained eye contact, when you're not having a very intimate moment with someone, is creepy. It's actually associated with weirdos, and IMO, autistic people who had eye contact hammered into them as children.

Natural eye contact is brief-ish in most settings. Lots of mini glances during a conversation instead of one long stare.

Very intense, emotive, personal conversations, or like, lovemaking and pillow talk are times when you might gaze meaningfully into the other person's eyes.

Speaking of, why the hell did they not teach me this in those Basic Socializing for Tards classes I went to as a kid?

Teaches me for quoting before finishing a post. You figured it out. But yeah, I think those social skills lessons back in the day resulted in some creepy starers. (And then there's creeps that would stare regardless.)

Spoiler: more answers

Do they even consciously notice what I’m doing? None of my relatives have said anything. Did everyone I’ve ever interacted with realize that I wasn’t making eye contact or did they just subconsciously perceive that I don’t want to interact

Randoms and coworkers probably don't notice.

Your close friends and relatives might notice if they've known you a long time and have seen you try to change. But why would they say anything?

The eye contact you're mimicking from the study is, in Western culture, seen as polite and normal. It makes you less noticeable, if that makes sense. To them, it probably doesn't feel like anything to remark on.

It's also entirely possible people picked up on your reluctance to interact. That's fine. Not making eye contact with someone is a pretty clear sign you don't want to talk. So if they take the hint, great!

I can't count the number of people I've encountered who DON'T take the hint. When someone isn't looking at you and just says "mm hmm" it means they aren't interested but don't want to be rude and outright say it.

Did people actually fall for my “looking in the general direction of your eyes” bullshit?

More than likely, yes. Unless you're one inch in front of their face, then it's pretty easy to fall for it.

Have you ever thought someone was making eye contact with you in public, but they were actually looking at someone behind you? Maybe not, but it happens to NT people all the time. "Why is that person staring at me? Do I know them? Omg why are they waving at me?" Then it was for someone else all along.

An entirely different person three feet behind me is a far greater distance from eyes than my ear is. Irises are small. It can be easy to misjudge where they're pointed.

That study you found said that most neurotypical people keep eye contact for only a few seconds at a time. Guess who made up that "look in the middle of their eyebrows instead" lifehack? Neutrotypical people. It's for when you're feeling overwhelmed or tired, but need to maintain eye contact for longer periods than you're comfortable with. Job interviews, sales pitches, things like that. Or just when you get nervous. Or if you're lying, maybe. Eye contact is one of those things that some NT people DO struggle with when they're anxious and become aware of it, like on a job interview or a first date.

Back in the day (and maybe still now IDK) models were taught to look at the edge of the camera lens to avoid redeye. That has nothing to do with emotions in eye contact, but in the pictures the model would still appear to be looking straight down the lens. It's the same thing.

can you actually see people’s emotions in their eyes? I thought this was just about the way the facial muscles around the eyes move but idk anymore.

Yes but it's hard to explain. I'd say it's like 90% facial muscles and 10% something in the eyes that's hard to put into words.

Have you ever heard "his smile didn't reach his eyes"? There is something emotional in the eyes that can convey more emotion. But it differs between people. Some people show more in their eyes than others.

A good actor can convey different emotions without changing their facial expression. They could be smiling hatefully, or frowning but somehow brimming with joy.

I realize that makes things harder for autistic people, but it's just the way it is. Eyes convey additional emotional information.

TBH some neurotypical people can't pick up on it, either.

Is blank, unnatural eye contact more disconcerting than none at all?

Yes. Especially if your words and actions are warm/polite/friendly and if you're able to smile. It's better to come across as shy or, honestly, autistic than to come across as a creep.

Having said that, though, the unnatural eye contact of an autistic person is a million times better than the malicious, hateful glare of a psychopath. I've only met one psychopath that I'm 100% convinced was a psychopath, and when he made eye contact, I'd get literal cold chills up my spine. And the worst was that it was hard to look AWAY. Guy was an actual predator, there's no doubt in my mind.

(I saw a wolf loose in the suburbs as a teen once, when i was alone, and I was mesmerized by its eye contact, too. It was gorgeous but I was terrified. I walked backwards until I could turn a corner. No idea if that was how you're supposed to deal with a wolf, but it was all I could think of to do.)

I've known dozens of low level narcissist jerks who also have hard, dead eyes, and they didn't scare me, but I'd still take a blank, mumbling autist over them.

Honestly, don't stress it. There are worse things to be than mildly strange.

Some people also just have really intense gazes that make even the socially adept among us feel uncomfortable, like how "crazy person eyes" are a thing and how people under a lot of stress show it in the eyes.

Exactly.

You can also tell when a generally sweet and nice person is stressing or tired, but their face is exactly the same. It'll show in the eyes.

 

[LonesomeDud]

@brooky I was taught listening is a two part process that involves either looking at the person or the task at hand

 

[brooky]

@brooky I was taught listening is a two part process that involves either looking at the person or the task at hand

Do you mean lovemaking?

 

[LonesomeDud]

Do you mean lovemaking?

For other things. Like looking into someone's eyes when you speak. It really does largely come down to culture and how much you like someone.