hoe_math / Justin Quirici / Justin Careesi - "HISTORY'S MANLIEST HILARIOUS SEX GENIUS", Makes autistic charts, kicked off the cunt carousel, Chubby Chaser, "discriminated" against for being a white male, wants the Bible to be rewritten, COVID RUINED HIS DREAM JOB!

[Lidl Drip]

40+ used up old haggot who is angry he was never picked and will most certainly die alone? Wonder which Woman Hate Thread poster he is.

I see this retard and his crayon drawings on Twitter all the time. How the fuck does anyone take this shit seriously?



This is the kind of thing you would expect to find drawn on the walls of a cell in an insane asylum.



Absolute nightmare fuel.

 

[YHWH's Strongest Soldier]

I see this retard and his crayon drawings on Twitter all the time. How the fuck does anyone take this shit seriously?

Wtf am I looking at? Does it even have a starting point? Do I need to drink kratom and go through a schizo episode to read this?

 

[Spud]

Wtf am I looking at? Does it even have a starting point? Do I need to drink kratom and go through a schizo episode to read this?

Come my child, you have much to learn.

 

[Lidl Drip]

Wtf am I looking at? Does it even have a starting point? Do I need to drink kratom and go through a schizo episode to read this?

You need to be driven batshit crazy by 20+ years of rejection before you can understand this diagram.

 

[Trump's Chosen]

HM originally wanted to be some Jordan Peterson-esque Guru to preach to young men that Western civilization was broken from the start and didn't want to get pigeonholed as a redpill dating bro

So this guy's idea of Christianity is "Schrödinger's Christianity"?

(A superposition of Christianity & atheism in both states at once.)

Seems fitting.

 

[Mordecai "3 Finger" Brown]

Wtf am I looking at? Does it even have a starting point? Do I need to drink kratom and go through a schizo episode to read this?

This is the 2024 very busy revised version of his Magnum Opus Zones chart 2.0 that I believe hoe_math still uses to this day.

From the OP

This Zones chart is probably the most important and the most frequently used drawing in HM's whole kit (besides the Female Delusion Chart for attractiveness).

The left side is the male decision tree:

- men are much simpler and mostly value women on physical attractiveness, lack of body count, not being a cunt, etc.
- the male version essentially has 3 relationship categories - Keeper (Unicorn marriage material), Sleepers (women good enough to fuck and parade around publicly but never commit to) and Sweepers (Slump Busters - women good enough to fuck secretly if desperate but embarassing to be associated with publicly)

The right side is the female decison tree:
- much more complicated
- Take Home Message: Investment on the Y Axis (Money, Attention, Time, Resources, Being Nice, Being Safe) can never make up for lack of Tingles/Raw Attractiveness/Bad Boy energy
- Physical Attraction/Bad Boy Energy on the X Axis is much more desirable and effective

This is a 1.0 2023 more simplified version of his Zones chart.

I listened to his first few livestreams in late 2023. He went viral on TikTok then YT during the summer/early fall of that year. In some of the YT comments, people note he was gaining sometimes 5k subs daily. In his first ever Nov 2nd, 2023 stream, the comments and stream mention he has risen to 130-160k subs, where he sits at 675k YT subs today.

The relevance to the charts is that he claims to have realized what was happening in the fall of 2023 with his viral rise and decided that he needed some fresh background content and study aids.

He claims that this more rudimentary 1.0 Zones version took him 3 whole days to concoct.

He admits it's mostly based on his personal experience, his Psychology education (decades ago), reading evolutionary psych (though COVID broke him so badly that he claimed in 2023 not to have read a book in 4 years).

ie These charts are only as "scientific" as the small amounts of psychology he knows applies to his lived experience



This is the male half of the newer 2.0 2024 chart.

The leftmost column are traits and qualities that men evaluate in potential women mates - physical appearance, personality, purity (lack of body count, modesty, lack of other male competitors, baggage)

In the male version, sexual attraction and pair bonding are unilinear on a single vertical access. Top is more sexual attraction/more desire to commit, bottom is opposite.

He's added another dimension here where there's a public/private line on the righthand column.

The middle "Zero - Worst I Would See Again", is a dividing line whether a guy values a woman enough to be associated with her publicly. Everything above this line, is at least public gf material (though possibly still noncommittal "situationships"). Everything below are women that are mid and below, worth secret sexual congress but too low value to be associated with at large.



This is a zoomed in version of the 2.0 female half of the Zones chart, missing all the input variables on both the x-axis (Bad Boy traits, physical appearance, status, Dark Triad traits, etc) and the y-axis (Security/Investment - Good Guy stuff, being nice, giving her resources, money, attention, making her feel safe and comfortable).

In this chart, the boxes are mirrored along the y-axis, where more Bad Boy/Tingles points pushes a potential mate further to the left.

Take home messages
- Bad Boy/physical attraction/confidence/dangerous/exciting/Dark triad traits are way more important in female sexual desire than boring/safe/nice/resource rich husband material stuff
- "She doesn't owe you anything" - You can't manufacture genuine female desire by being infinitely nice and investing resources. The attraction has to be already there.
- Men with little physical appeal or resources are invisible to women, they are ghosts (the Not People Zone)

- Lots of niceness/resource Investment with little Bad Boy physical attraction = Friend Zone
- Lots of Bad Boy traits with little being nice/resource Investment = lots of sexual desire but short unstable relationships with assholes/jerks
- mid attractiveness and mid investment = situationships that go nowhere
- mid attractiveness with LOTS of niceness/investment = Husband Material (stable LTR lacking true sexual desire)
- maxed out Bad Boy and Lots of niceness/resources = Prince Charming unicorn

 

[Meth Reindeer]

This is a good long OP.

Peel back the curtain on a red pill influencer and you‘ll find a washed up “former” manwhore thats just as bad as the type of woman he criticizes.

More like hoe_pocrisy.

It's always the way. And these people always think every man would choose to be a manwhore given the choice.

If you're struggling to find a girlfriend one of the worst things you can do is listen to someone like this. The blind leading the blind. My alternative prescription: Try leaving the fucking house.

I like your prescription but I'd probably add the standard, have a shower first, to it. Along with get a personality. There's a big problem with red-pillers who think getting jacked and chasing money and poon is a personality, it's not. Get some hobbies outside of that stuff, become a member of a social group, and respected among your peers and bam! Women will see that and appreciate it.

Not gonna lie, I watched this guy's videos for a little while because I thought they were interesting. The "zones" videos is actually a decent visualization of how men and women evaluate eachother.

His content is mostly:
-Reacting to vapid tiktok women sneeding about men and explaining why it's actually every women's fault (long shorts)
-Giving the same advice over and over again (self maximize)
-Livestreams that showcase his inability to use a computer (Josh streaming in a closet in a 2nd world country using stolen wifi from a kebab shop had less issues)

I think he makes some decent points in his videos (you can't expect people to like you without being likeable, you can't "nice guy" your way into women wanting to be with you, etc.) As far as "redpillers" go he's at least giving men advice that is somewhat constructive (take pride in your appearance, improve yourself) in addition to creating "tiktok woman bad" slop. That being said, it's boilerplate dating advice and you don't need Crayola autism to explain it.

I hadn't seen his xitter prior to this thread, it's unhinged. What's funniest to me is that he wants to rebrand his channel into "Soul_Math" or whatever to appeal to normies and women but continues to have spergouts and doompost on X like that won't scare away that demographic entirely.

He comes across as a guy with no purpose or direction in life. He filled that void with loose women, and after he aged out, became resentful of society for allowing women to be loose.

I thought some of his points were okay when I saw them a while ago. He definitely came across better than most red-pill content, and only bordered on misogyny in what I saw on YT.

As with all these manosphere people, they pick the lowest of the hanging fruit when it comes to women to criticise and treat them as if they are the norm. Essentially every woman I've ever known (barring maybe 1 or 2) don't do OF, don't behave like gold diggers, and aren't vapid like those red-pillers critique.

I hadn't seen his X posts either and I had no idea he was 40 fucking years old. I thought perhaps he was in his early 30s mid to late 20s. It's definitely the blind leading the blind, given his dating experience will be different to someone born in the 90s let alone dudes born in the 2000s. At least he's not as openly bitter as some of the red-pillers.

I still maintain the best dating advice I ever saw was some general stuff from an old PUA guy from the early 2000s. I don't recall the name as it was a friend who was into that stuff and not me (although the friend did sucker me into buying The Mystery Method, don't recommend), but what he shared essentially amounted to common sense: get in reasonably good shape, physically and mentally, focus on setting yourself up for success and less on the end goal of getting some hot woman. Essentially self help 101 crap. Hoe_Math skirts around the edges of some of these basics.

 

[Calandrino]

+



=

 

[Mordecai "3 Finger" Brown]

So this guy's idea of Christianity is "Schrödinger's Christianity"?

Look for The Crucible, I need to know if mom watches Orthodox Christian Internet Bloodsports.

This guy is no Christian, rejecting miracles And Christ's resurrection. I wouldn't even call him a fair weather Christian or luke warm, likely just grifting off Christianity to appeal to his audience. If he actually does consider himself a "Christian" I think he's highly likely a Gnostic, one of the oldest heresies

Seems fitting.

More wishywashy moralizing on whether or not he's Christian

Whatever Pod Oct 29th, '23 48m22s

OF thots are talking about their generosity in spreading universal love via their OF work

HM quietly draws a "Repent" cross in the background

Superchatter says simps may save you but Jesus won't

HM counters that Jesus can even save slatternly e-whores

HM talks about the spiritual aspect of sperm/egg, two bodies combining to be one flesh.

 

[Deleterious Swine]

You ever wonder why all the online "relationship/sex/dating" experts are not married?

I would trust some guy who talks about relationships who got married at 18, and has been married for more than a decade, that shit takes rocks to do but as it turns out, people in that demographic have way better shit to do than make manosphere videos and find niche uses for their degree (which they should have known was useless after the first year of taking it).

 

[Mordecai "3 Finger" Brown]

What do you really mean when you say this?

Not OP, but there's themes going around manosphere/male dating communities at present that most average guys (ie. those outside the top 10-30% of physical attractiveness) will never experience unconditional love and true burning sexual interest from their female counterparts.

That they will only ever be valued for their resources, for their present value, for being settled for by aging woman after they've hit the wall, lost their Sexual Marketplace Value and had their fun.

That even average husbands and boyfriends that find a LTR are never truly unconditionally loved or seen as sexy/giving the tingles.

There's a "Husband Material" meme going around on Reddit and Twitter for the last year, the concept that many women aren't sexually attracted to their husbands and never were. They stay with their betabuxx husband as long as he provides resources. But if he stumbles, loses his job, shares too much, gives her the ick, remains lower status while she raises hers, she will follow her hypergamist evolutionary desire to trade up, will start looking to stray and monkeybranch.


This Reddit story went viral for a time last year (Aug '24)

Twitter archive

Diane Yap and hoe_math actually got into a Twitter fight over it.

Spoiler: Diane Yap and hoe_math X slapfight

Diane Yap is a right-leaning Asian academic with a background in Mathematics (duh!)
She worked for the Manhattan Institute (Chris Rufo's org)
She has a sense of humor, as her Substack is called Critical Rice Theory.


Archive



Diane Yap took the more feminist position that a wife telling her husband that "I wouldn't have a one night stand with you" should be taken as a compliment because she ultimately chooses him long-term



hoe_math OTOH woke up and chose violence.

When this guy's long-term, committed, monogamous gf tells him "I would not ever have considered you for casual sex," what he hears is: "I offer you FERTILITY, but only in exchange for SUPPORT. I have in the past offered other men FERTILITY even without SUPPORT."

This causes him to feel demoted in her eyes to a lower class of desirability. If you would offer FERTILITY to other men even though they did not have to SUPPORT you to get it, they why do I have to? Why were they better than me?

Additionally, if I'm not that kind of guy to you - the kind that deserves FERTILITY for free - but that kind of guy does exist to you, how much do I have to worry about what happens when you run into another one?

To us, Diane, this sounds like "You're not my favorite type of guy to reproduce with, and I do have a history of giving my body to those guys for free, but I sure do like all the work you're putting in! Keep it up!

He takes the redpilled position that your wife indicating "I wouldn't have a one night stand with you":

1) reveals she may have had more one night stands with Chads before than you are aware
2) she doesn't have the same burning sexual desire for you as she did those fleeting trysts with Chads BITD
3) that she settled for you for your resources and is only fucking you begrudgingly

And even for those women who remain in LTRs, they don’t actually sexually desire their husbands like they get the tingles from their one night stand with the Top 10% Chad or Tyrone.

The concept of the "alpha widow", a woman who gets stuck on her highest setting, a longing that can never be fulfilled.

 

[Inside your walls]

New lore drop

Hoe_math was so autistic to the point that he mistook one his teachers suggesting him to sign-up for an after
school activity in order to socialize as attempts at grooming.


I had some of finest experts recreate this flashback.
BEHOLD

 

[ArthuriusMartyrius]

Women’s standards really aren’t insanely high at all. I hate the “touch grass” meme but seriously, go outside.

Also unconditional love doesn’t exist. Everyone is loved for something, a beautiful woman is loved for her looks just as much as a successful man is loved for what he has achieved.

Unconditional love is a Disney fairy tale meme that some guys never grew out of.

 

[AMHOLIO]

Being a deeper/moral thinker and a high value man, you either have to choose between a girl who doesn't really like you, or just promiscuity which wouldn't even fullfill you.

The real love is actually liking being around someone and wanting to accompany that person in life and seeing the relationship as something mutually enjoyable and not requiring excessive amount of money or any unreasonable expectation.

Spoiler: tl; dr: what

I wish I could introduce you to some young couples I know IRL who really are attraced based on enjoying time together and each other as a person. It might not make much of a difference, you seem like a guy I used to know who didn't believe humans would stay together forever until he met "the one". Both of you seem to base it off first hand feelings and possibly the relationships of your parents.

I can't understand why a high value thinker with a decent steady job would not be attractive to a woman. Because he's not full chad? So many women love unconvetional looking men (see: tumblr), I'm confused by your assesment. Is it because chicks aren't deep or moral thinkers? I am amazed you can't find any women's discussions who talk deeply or philosophically, is it that women communicate a bit different than men or is it something else where they cannot mentally get on men's levels? I keep marking you autistic for seeming to have a shallow reference pool of IRL experiences and a black and white view of the subject.

 

[Toji Suzuhara]

Zesty Jesus(Another youtuber) doesn't want to sleep around because he wants to find a girl he actually likes

Nigga, Zesty Jesus is like one of the worst examples you could have picked from. The guy is a chronic gooner who retweets thirstposts of "buff" anime girls constantly. He does have a PhD on geophysics so he isn't a NEET or anything but the guy is mentally ill and a bachelor at 30

 

[Mordecai "3 Finger" Brown]

Seems as though a couple of accounts were deleted/banned which leaves some hanging replies without context

 

[CoolFool]

Not OP, but there's themes going around manosphere/male dating communities at present that most average guys (ie. those outside the top 10-30% of physical attractiveness) will never experience unconditional love and true burning sexual interest from their female counterparts.

There is something similar going around in the female dating communities, this belief that men can't ever truly love a woman, they only care about your looks, and as soon as you start getting fine lines or wrinkles, he's already looking for a younger woman to bang. They suggest that since men are basically incapable of real love, women should just settle for whatever guy provides the most resources.

The men and women I see promoting these attitudes are almost always people who slept around a lot when they were younger, and they never had a long term relationship. So they believe that since they suck at commitment and couldn't keep anyone around, then that's how it must be for everyone. It is frustrating to see young and inexperienced people fall for this bad dating advice.

 

[Mordecai "3 Finger" Brown]

New lore drop

There's actually quite a bit of banter from hoe_math surrounding food, particularly on his YT lives.

One of his regular paypigs is named AvocadoAtrocity

He pays something like $5 weekly on livestreams to have hoe_math draw him an avocado.

hoe_math draws lots of apples and bananas on streams.

On a Nov 2nd, 2023 stream, hoe_math declared his favorite food as Fuji apples from Washington State.

He eats grapes for supper.

He doesn't keep junkfood in the house because of impulse control and eats raisins instead.

He laid in bed until 4pm most days and drank Gatorade for two years unemployed on his NYC studio apartment during COVID.

He copes with eating when stressed and socially isolated, which seems perpetual.

When his online Zoomer richgirl fan moved in with him for a few months in Spring '24, her contributions were mostly grocery shopping and cooking for him. I recall once she made him a charcuterie board/cheese plate on stream.

He tends to do relatively late night Tuesday night weekly streams (likely earlier for him, suspect he lives in PST). He usually cuts them off after an hour to go eat.

Since he was poor/unemployed for decades between 23 and 37, he compensated by not believing in bringing his gf out for "treats".

 

[Inside your walls]

He copes with eating when stressed and socially isolated, which seems perpetual.

He doesn't keep junkfood in the house because of impulse control and eats raisins instead.

Hoe_math inside you there's a mukbang girlie yearning to get out... Release and let your
new stunning and brave identity bloom!

He should do a mukbang stream with Hamberlynn and Chantal . He'd fit right in (and between them)
since he shares the cattiness, smarminess and passive-aggressiveness you see with those two.

In fact I could see him being a little token >straight flamboyant man servant for them that
dresses up in scantly clad costumes like this.


I mean there's no harm in trying, he already degrades himself by drawing Dairy of Wimpy Kid tier drawings
trying to explain the redpill to young men that are old enough to be his sons/nephews and drove for Uber/Lyft.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

Along with get a personality

but what if i have a personality like Null where women find it revolting but men love me?