William James Mitchell vs. Twin Galaxies LLC, Jeff Harrist & Jeremy Young & donkeykongforum.com, Benjamin Q Smith

[FamicomGorby]

That said, even if he got a smaller compensatory damages award here (not even sure of that), the judge could easily raise the asshole tax and end up with the same result. He says he might appeal but maybe he should just take the L rather than making things worse. Or if his lawyers really were as bad as people are saying (no opinion here), maybe suing THEM would be the better option, although it looks like he really dug his own grave.

Since Karl's down over a million USD already, probably smarter to just stop at this point. Of course since it's Karl though I could see him just keep going until Billy makes him read a forced statement like Liz Fong Jones did to that Australian guy who recommended Null try raisin bread.

 

[Shake]

I see a lot of people don't know the story of ApolloLegend, who he named or why so I tried my best to write out what I remember.

(A)

Spoiler: Offtopic?

ApolloLegend was the first modern speedrunning YouTuber. His content blew up in 2017 with his break out "10 Speedrunners Who Were Caught Cheating" at 13 million views. Apollo popularized the genre of video game cheaters and speedrunning drama, paving the way for Goose and Karl Jobst. He was at the forefront of this wave until a stunt where he confronted Billy in person. Billy took legal action, and his uploads slowed down as other channels took over in popularity.

Goose and Karl knew each other before they were YouTubers. They're both from The-Elite.net, an old GoldenEye speedrunning community. Goose managed to pick up Apollo's traction. Then, in 2018, Discord screenshots leaked from The-Elite Discord showing him contemplating the Jewish question and other /pol/ memes. There was enough backlash to get him banned from GDQ. In response, Apollo made a video defending Goose, although in a somewhat misleading way where he says he was canceled for simply liking Jordan Peterson. This didn't go over well with many declaring Apollo was also a white supremacist.

Notably, the first person to call him out was DarkViperAU - a GTA speedrunning YouTuber. The two went back and forth, Apollo made a video in response, his audience sided against him. In late 2020 he and Billy reached a settlement requiring him to take down his old videos. This was a huge disappointment and after that his reputation never recovered. EZscape's video shows where public opinion was at the time. The audience moved on to other YouTubers, namely Karl Jobst.



When Apollo committed suicide, he says in the video it had nothing to do with the internet. However, in the description he names EZscape and DarkViperAU for giving him the final push. Unsurprisingly a lot of people went after them forcing them to respond. This is why Karl weaponizing Apollo's suicide against Billy is an especially baffling move. No one should be blamed for what Apollo did, telling the public someone should is a bad idea... especially if you're supposed to friends with the people named on it. I've seen people questioning why Karl and DarkViper are still friends... the truth is they weren't for a long time. DarkViper actually blocked Karl on all platforms without notice, and Karl was so blindsided and hurt by this he tweeted about it publicly. That is the only reason they reconciled.



Karl would end up having his own (tamer) Discord leaks around the time of Billy's lawsuit, and due to his proximity to Goose it was easy many started tying them together and accusing him of being a white nationalist. This is probably why he 'backstabbed' him, his own logs were much easier to defend.

 

[señor negro]

It was a ruse cruise!

Here's a video made of the verdict, it's pretty kino:

kek

 

[juniorAccount]

Here Cries
Karl Jobst
Cucked by Willy Bitcher...

 

[Berrakh]

Lesson: if you're going to screw your life up completely, make sure there's already video of you online bawling like a baby so it can be used in memes.

I’m imagining a guy getting raped in the courts then immediately rushing to youtube or social media to delete anything with an embarrassing image of him before it becomes a thumbnail.

 

[sweetie_squad_4_lyfe]

how the fuck did billy win this. wtf.

 

[WhatZitTooya]

even in America, Karl would have risked losing a defamation lawsuit by actually accusing Billy of being the cause of someone’s death.

Nah, the case wouldn't have gotten far in America. Under US defamation law, the burden of proof is entirely on the defendant to prove that:

• The claim was a false statement of fact (i.e., it was patently incorrect and presented as if it were true)
• It was made with either full knowledge that it was false or reckless disregard for the truth
• If the plaintiff is a "public figure", the statement was made with actual malice (the express desire to cause harm)
• The claim resulted in the plaintiff experiencing some tangible economic damage, such as loss of income
  • The only exception to this is defamation per se, which are statements considered to be severely injurious and don't need proof of damages. This usually includes accusations of committing a serious crime, adultery, having a "loathsome disease", or clearly trying to defame someone's business or profession

Billy's biggest hurdles would be proving actual malice (Karl's defense could easily be "I genuinely believed at the time that what I was saying was factual and I had no reason to think otherwise") and proving economic damages. But America is an outlier compared to the rest of the Anglosphere, and Commonwealth countries are far more plaintiff-friendly in their defamation law. (Until the 2010s, UK law treated libelous statements as false by default, and the burden was on the defense to prove they were true.) In Australia, Billy would not have to prove actual malice or economic damages, which is why he chose to file the suit there instead of in the US.

 

[Markorian]

how the fuck did billy win this. wtf.

Because the case was never about whether or not Billy Mitchell cheated, despite what Karl attempted to pivot to every time (though TG's case did mostly rely on that aspect). The case was about whether or not Billy Mitchell is responsible for the suicide of Apollolegend, and if not, whether or not Karl had reason enough to believe it to be so that speaking out about it outweighed the harm caused to Billy Mitchell's reputation.

 

[AnOminous]

I do like ‘he removed the offending parts officically but he has not officialy retracted them’

I understand why people hate Billy lol

The judge was convinced by this. When he started out the damages phase of his ruling, Karl's lawyers tried to argue he made a retraction and that should be a mitigating factor. The judge pointed out he didn't issue the retraction to the same audience but basically hid it, and instead found the way he did it was an AGGRAVATING factor actually raising the damages.

 

[Drama Trauma]

So, who's gonna make a Karl Jobst thread? I don't know much about him. I first heard from him when The Completionist fraud happened.

 

[neger psykolog]

Lesson: if you're going to screw your life up completely, make sure there's already video of you online bawling like a baby so it can be used in memes.

Also make sure you have a channel that has highly misleading thumbnails and titles yourself, to serve as inspiration for when people want to grave dance when you have a failing:

 

[Seedling]

When Apollo committed suicide, he says in the video it had nothing to do with the internet. However, in the description he names EZscape and DarkViperAU for giving him the final push. Unsurprisingly a lot of people went after them forcing them to respond. This is why Karl weaponizing Apollo's suicide against Billy is an especially baffling move. No one should be blamed for what Apollo did, telling the public someone should is a bad idea... especially if you're supposed to friends with the people named on it.

Something that seemed odd about the case to me is why was he so stubborn when all he had to do was a small edit and a public retraction?
Well now im convinced that that was the whole point to pin the blame of the suicide on Billy so DarkViper was free from blame, thats why he refused to back down despite a settlement and retraction being enough.
This shit is far more fucked up than i initially thought

 

[Acheron]

Nah, the case wouldn't have gotten far in America. Under US defamation law, the burden of proof is entirely on the defendant to prove that:

• The claim was a false statement of fact (i.e., it was patently incorrect and presented as if it were true)
• It was made with either full knowledge that it was false or reckless disregard for the truth
• If the plaintiff is a "public figure", the statement was made with actual malice (the express desire to cause harm)
• The claim resulted in the plaintiff experiencing some tangible economic damage, such as loss of income
  • The only exception to this is defamation per se, which are statements considered to be severely injurious and don't need proof of damages. This usually includes accusations of committing a serious crime, adultery, having a "loathsome disease", or clearly trying to defame someone's business or profession

Billy's biggest hurdles would be proving actual malice (Karl's defense could easily be "I genuinely believed at the time that what I was saying was factual and I had no reason to think otherwise") and proving economic damages. But America is an outlier compared to the rest of the Anglosphere, and Commonwealth countries are far more plaintiff-friendly in their defamation law. (Until the 2010s, UK law treated libelous statements as false by default, and the burden was on the defense to prove they were true.) In Australia, Billy would not have to prove actual malice or economic damages, which is why he chose to file the suit there instead of in the US.

• The claim was a false statement of fact (i.e., it was patently incorrect and presented as if it were true)

Karl made a false statement of fact in his video. He clearly said that Billy paid Apollo a large sum of money and that he was one of the main reasons he killed himself

• It was made with either full knowledge that it was false or reckless disregard for the truth

Karl made the claims while not knowing if they were true. The judge in this case specifically talked about how Karl acted with a reckless disregard for the truth.

• It was made with either full knowledge that it was false or reckless disregard for the truth

There's interviews of Karl talking about how Billy needs to be destroyed. This is malice right here.

• The claim resulted in the plaintiff experiencing some tangible economic damage, such as loss of income

In the trial Billy presented two emails sent to him of people cancelling his paid appearances citing directly Karl's video as the reason why. This cost him money and was proven in court.

 

[Northern Blockhead]

Another example of why Youtubers should never be investigative journalists

 

[prollyanotherlurker]

you know what, as one of the biggest anti billy crusaders, I must admit that I was retarded for supporting a non american.
fuck all other countries, and the people within them. I'm thinkin karl deserves this.

I hope his chink wife is taking the news alright.

 

[Fae Supremacist]

I will say, separate from any question of legal culpability, I don’t agree with the sentiment that suicide is never caused by anyone other than the suicider.

It is a very easy allegation to throw around, considering that one of the parties involved is incapable of saying anything. Speaking for the dead is distasteful.

 

[mlanguishi]

Sidescrollers on it today just now. at 1:01 hour in

 

[6MillionCoofs]

A major problem (that Karl did in fact lie about and deliberately conceal) was that he was told by a relative of Apollo Legend that he was wrong. Apollo Legend's statement also contradicted his claim.

It’s worse even iirc. Cause i remember in one of his vids him saying he was wrong and told he was wrong and was doubling down because since Billy lied about so much he must by lying and threatening people about this.

Which is seemingly the reason the judge is so pissed at Karl

 

[Berrakh]

It is a very easy allegation to throw around, considering that one of the parties involved is incapable of saying anything. Speaking for the dead is distasteful.

I will speak for thousands of dead people!

 

[stacks__]

This was all posted under a section called "Reckless Indifference to the facts"

I think a lot of this was echoed before but it's really hard to feel bad for Karl even if you are a fan. Like just take the L, keep your mouth shut and you probably could've scraped by or avoided the worst of the damages.
He was still spouting shit at trial with no real explanation. I have no idea what made him so confident.