Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholocism General) - Byzantine? Ethnic? Roman? It doesn't matter. It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire

[Sheikh]

I saw a broadcast that the Pontiff has recovered. May he enjoy good health. Peace be to you, nation of Jesus, upon whom be peace.

 

[Preacher ✝]

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

What do all of you think of the modern online trend of people becoming "trad"? To someone who was raised deeply religious, I feel it is somewhat disingenuous on the part of many of these people, especially since they typically seem to merely be seeking a form of rebellion against modern liberalism. In my experience, truly "traditional" people don't spend all their time online grifting their religions for attention.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that some of this could be the general thirst people have for meaning and an escape from materialism, and undoubtedly there will always be people who latch onto a movement (especially a religious one) for their own personal gain.

I'm genuinely interested in what your views on this are.

While there are a few that are genuine in their beliefs, many are only doing it for the aesthetic at best and outright grifting at worst. One notable example would have to be the Groypers who constantly pride themselves of their supposed devotion to the Catholic Church, their actions and words show an outright contradiction to Church doctrine and beliefs. Another example of Faux Trads missing the point is their antagonistic view of Pope Francis, with many seeing him as a progressive antipope even though Francis has been misinterpreted by the media and has been true to the Church's teachings.

 

[Preacher ✝]

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

View attachment 7153244

Our Lady of Sorrows, pray for us!

 

[Bonesjones]

I'm somewhat experienced at seeing through bait, and like I said this isn't even good bait.

"It's all bait. No one can actually disagree with me"

If you were serious and genuine in your inquest you would drop the hostility, but for you the hostility is the point. When your idea of basic scrutiny is uninformed and incendiary how can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

"I might be a pedophile but atleast I'm not RUDE". I don't expect to be taken seriously, i am unimportant. You want it to be about me because you don't want it to be about you. Again, just a way to deflect from actual arguments because you don't want to face them.

Take your claims about the Jesuits for example. If as you say all Jesuits are converts, then it would stand to reason that the order was founded by a convert. The founder of the Jesuits was Saint Ignatius of Loyola, and he was not a convert.

Why does every article about him mention his conversion? The devil is in the details, and they lie openly. Why would a fame hungry military man, get slightly injured then go directly to meeting the pope?

Francis Xavier "His poverty that had so won the Paravas and Malays often repelled the Japanese, so he abandoned it for studied display when this was called for." Almost like his poverty was an act since he came from a wealthy family.

Turns out the people who lie to you, consistently lie to you about everything.

Why would they take a bunch of their sworn enemy converts, then immediately stop fighting over Jerusalem to instead spread the word of god business across the globe?

Furthermore your assertions ignore the "Decree de generee" which proclaimed that either Jewish or Muslim ancestry, no matter how distant, was an insurmountable impediment for admission to the Jesuit Order.

"We investigated ourselves and it turns out we are totally innocent!"

That decree was issued in 1593 and was only repealed in 1946. How can an order consist of nothing but converts when converts were insurmountably banned from admission for hundreds of years?

Why would you need to bring in other true converts when you are full of fake ones?

These are well documented historical facts, and rather basic ones at that.

"See the Bible is fallible but the word of the Catholic Church is not!"

A faithful saying: if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. It behoveth therefore a bishop to be blameless, the husband of one wife

Whoops. Look at those Catholics denying the Bible yet again

Catholic apologetics is the art of using rhetoric to ignore/dismiss all the flaws of Catholicism while projecting the same arguments onto the detractors of Catholicism. They basically borrowed a page from Judaism in that regard.

Catholicism is just lesser Rabbanical Judaism in practice. All of the same deference to higher earthly authority and ritual.

That's not what apologetics is about but I can understand why you might get that impression if your knowledge of apologetics comes exclusively from online slapfights between laity with various degrees of education on the matter. Go listen to a professional like Bishop Barron.

"See we aren't even smart enough or knowledgeable enough to talk about it, defer to authority"

You totally aren't a cultist. (Thats sarcasm, you totally are)

When the protestant or other anti-Catholic arguments all center around the misdeeds of the clergy throughout history it is very tempting for Catholic proponents to return the favor. In fact it is somewhat rare to find a good discussion based on theology that doesn't devolve into duelling judgements of leadership figures.

There is the lie, you want to seperate the church and religion when it benefits you and keep them together when it benefits you so you can dodge facing criticism.

A lot of people have trouble with the concept that the Church and the Clergy are two separate entities. The Catholic Church is the sinless bride of Christ, the clergy who administer the Church are just men, no less fallen or prone to sin that the rest of us. That's why they think the flaws of the Clergy can be applied against the Church.

No people have problems with ignoring the inherent corruption of the church and Catholics ignoring it when it suits them so they don't have to take any personal responsibility, despite that being what Jesus preached about directly.

Theologically there are no flaws in Catholicism, but the clergy has no shortage of flaws throughout history.

"There's no flaws with Catholicism even when it directly contradicts the word of god, but that's OK because [insert list of apologetics]."

I always try to be straightforward about the sins of the administers because there is no benefit to denying, dismissing, or defending them.

Yeah trying to defend the indefensible doesn't work out.

It is much easier to argue against the theology of detractors because that's where the important flaws are anyway.

How would you know, you keep saying you aren't smart enough to argue and defer to others?

For example, no one who opposes Catholicism has ever been able to provide a satisfying answer to Matthew 16:18-19. Every one I've seen either weasels around it with semantics, ignores the full context of scripture, or both.

It's because you want it to mean what you want even if it means something else. The founding fathers of America weren't always correct but they put the rocks in place for things to grow from. Again you just think the Catholic Church is above criticism.

All of that said, if your heart is hardened against the Catholic Church and your mind is set on the notion that all apologetics is Orweillian jewish doublethink kikery then you will be inclined to jump to that conclusion regardless of whether or not you're presented with good apologetics or bad apologetics.

"If you think there's something wrong with the Catholic church. No matter how right you are. You are still wrong. No I can't back this up".

The Anti-Catholic responses all read

Fighting straw men is a lot easier than real people. I can see why you'd avoid the real thing.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

Whoops. Look at those Catholics denying the Bible yet again

It doesn't mean a literal wife since the Church is seen as the Bride of Christ. (See: Ephesians chapter 5)

Just say you don't know a damn thing about Catholic Theology and let the adults do the talking. Or is that difficult for an Muslim like yourself?

 

[Bonesjones]

It doesn't mean a literal wife since the Church is seen as the Bride of Christ. (See: Ephesians chapter 5)

Just say you don't know a damn thing about Catholic Theology and let the adults do the talking. Or is that difficult for an Muslim like yourself?

How many centuries did it take them to decide that? 11 or 12? Weird.

Funny how Catholics only know Catholic Theology and not Christian theology. Maybe you should shut up and just quote some other guy instead of using your brain, yet again.

It's funny how you'd take the raving of a cowardly jew as truth, because you both have a lot in common.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Don't feed the trolls.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

Don't feed the trolls.

Bonesjones probably goes to Pastor Jim's Bible Church anyway, if he truly is Christian as he claims.

 

[Preacher ✝]

"It's all bait. No one can actually disagree with me"

At this point calling it bait is being generous.

 

[Bonesjones]

Just as I always knew. A bunch of cultists with nothing valid to say.

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

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At this point calling it bait is being generous.

Bait used to be more believable.

 

[Shek$il]

"It's all bait. No one can actually disagree with me"

"I might be a pedophile but atleast I'm not RUDE".

"We investigated ourselves and it turns out we are totally innocent!"

"See the Bible is fallible but the word of the Catholic Church is not!"

"See we aren't even smart enough or knowledgeable enough to talk about it, defer to authority"

"There's no flaws with Catholicism even when it directly contradicts the word of god, but that's OK because [insert list of apologetics]."

"If you think there's something wrong with the Catholic church. No matter how right you are. You are still wrong. No I can't back this up".

Fighting straw men is a lot easier than real people.

 

[Bonesjones]

Bonesjones probably goes to Pastor Jim's Bible Church anyway, if he truly is Christian as he claims.

Of course you have contempt for people who follow the Bible, it doesn't glorify your need for strong institutional backing. You have no faith in the lord only in worldly things.

Just look at how you retards can't remember Catholic church doctrine flip flopping and pretending it was always that way.

 

[Preacher ✝]

 

[Hassou Tobi]

An excerpt from the Letter of Ignatius of Antioch to the Romans, written while on his way to Rome to be martyred in the arena where he expects to become God’s wheat, food for the wild beasts, a willing sacrifice with and for Jesus Christ.

I am writing to all the churches to let it be known that I will gladly die for God if only you do not stand in my way. I plead with you: show me no untimely kindness.

Let me be food for the wild beasts, for they are my way to God. I am God’s wheat and shall be ground by their teeth so that I may become Christ’s pure bread. Pray to Christ for me that the animals will be the means of making me a sacrificial victim for God.

No earthly pleasures, no kingdoms of this world can benefit me in any way. I prefer death in Christ Jesus to power over the farthest limits of the earth. He who died in place of us is the one object of my quest. He who rose for our sakes is my one desire.

…

For though I am alive as I write to you, still my real desire is to die. My love of this life has been crucified, and there is no yearning in me for any earthly thing. Rather within me is the living water which says deep inside me: “Come to the Father”. I no longer take pleasure in perishable food or in the delights of this world. I want only God’s bread, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, formed of the seed of David, and for drink I crave his blood, which is love that cannot perish.

https://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/media/articles/i-am-gods-wheat/

 

[Local Farmer]

The Catholic Church is an international crime syndicate pretending to be a religion there's a reason the Bible says from your fruit shall you know them the Catholic Church produced people like Pope Francis Pope Borger.
It's funny no other institution is more linked with pedophilia for good reason the Catholic Church is filled with a bunch of spineless Bader men.
Just a reminder that the Italian mob with that excommunicated from the Orthodox Church which you were not allowed to enter an orthodox church or a member of the Russian Mafia.
If Italy became communist the pope would probably be a proud member of the Communist Party not that Pope Francis isn't just a straight up communist with extra steps thank God that he is punished the blasphemous Catholics with Pope Francis May he destroy the Satanist Crime Syndicate Moon as the Vatican

The orthodox lick the boots of who ever is in power at the time, be it an iconoclast, monoeltist, muslim or communist and exist to be perpetually raped by the state, rarely standing in direct contrast to state actors. The line of secession is practically dead when Constantinople fell because they were forced to actually fend for themselves for the first time and instead of carrying on with Christian Tradition, they bent over backwards for their oppressors while resenting their brother Christians in the West. The only reason why they have any interest in modern times is because of bizzare aesthetic customs, the most hallow reason to look into any faith and almost every new convert to Orthodoxy will grow bored of it in a couple years ago and the Orthodox Church will go on back to what it’s been doing since the collapse of European Empires, I.E: We Wuzing former oppressors like Tsar Nicholas II because they were so mentally ass raped that they don’t try to define themselves as institution's prescribed by Christ, they only look for a new boots to lick. It is the most buck broken form of Christianity filled with repressed fags that will never extend to being more than tiny little ethnic enclaves that only exist in service to the state they reside in, not to Jesus Christ. If Israel was to suddenly invade Turkey I guarantee you that the Greek orthodox patriarch would be sucking the cocks of Bibi and Rosenberg. There is no real identity in Orthodoxy, so they make up for it with outdated art from the 11th century and funnier hats. That is the only thing Orthodoxy has to offer in contrast to Catholicism; that is what you worship at the end of the day. You can say it’s because of papal primacy, your Arian interpretation of the Trinity or any other bullshit but deep in your heart you know that’s the only thing that got you interested in it.

I will pray for you brother, God Bless

 

[Local Farmer]

Also since jesus has no corporal body at the moment, my understanding of the trinity is accurate.

Congratulations, by definition you are no longer a Christian

 

[Amerikaner Teddybär]

Congratulations, by definition you are no longer a Christian

Don't let the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Oneness Pentecostals, and other non-Trinitarians heard you say that.