Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[XYZpdq Jr.]

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the simplest solution is order of airing
if I manage to retire I think my big project will be organizing a groupwatch of the 90s
MST, B5, X-Files, TNG-Voy, Simpsons, any flash-in-the-pan like Seaquest
each week "everything that was on that week 50 years ago" or whatever rotated in a cytube channel

Well said. That’s the rub, isn’t it? Deep Space Nine doesn’t slot cleanly into two-party politics.

if your messages are worth a single fuck they're not going to slot cleanly
hell, the old Frank Gorshim ep of TOS even made it clear the dude chasing the other dude had some pretty good reasons and it wasn't just facesideism

 

[TheDataHorder]

-snip-

I honestly agree. despite Seth being a strong leftist, he's very good at keeping his stories politically neutral. He's explored both left wing and right wing views in the show and gives both equal chance to express their side of the story. Its really refreshing and make the show feel like what we're watching is real. Hell, Star Trek could learn a few things from it and come out better, competition is always good for innovation.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

I honestly agree. despite Seth being a strong leftist, he's very good at keeping his stories politically neutral. He's explored both left wing and right wing views in the show and gives both equal chance to express their side of the story. Its really refreshing and make the show feel like what we're watching is real. Hell, Star Trek could learn a few things from it and come out better, competition is always good for innovation.

Yeah exactly. One of my go to examples is when Talla is bitching at bortus going "u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot, u bigot" for hating gay people and supporting the execution of some chomo that got caught and his response to her, the entire exchange is great:

T: And there's no room for compassion or understanding on your planet?

B: For generations, my people struggled to survive on a desolate world. It was only our culture, our traditions that sustained us. It is who we are.

T: Man, if I had to live on Moclus, I'd probably kill myself.

B: Then you would shame not only yourself but your family as well.

And earlier when he calls her out for basically fetishizing him and only caring about him as a passing fancy ignoring the actual weight of what he is doing and how her dumb righteousness about how anyone should be what they want and damn the consequences condemned him to death:

B: You have been a selfish fool.

T: How?

B: You encouraged a dangerous impulse.

T: I didn't make him do anything. He came to me.

B: You do not understand the Moclan way. To you, he was a... curiosity.

T: That's a load of crap, Bortus. I felt something for him.

B: Was what you felt worth his death?

When is the last time a homophobe got to actually make a point about the importance of tradition? Like even briefly?

Yeah no shit the characters aren't throwing fucking sieg heils. I don't know what people here are expecting, Its still supposed to be a leftist socialist egalitarian utopia based on star trek where everyone holds hands and sings kumbaya.

But fucking hell, not even OG trek bothered to actually give the other side of an aile an opportunity to make their point and I implore anyone to give me any other example of a mainstream show where a "homophobe" was given a voice at all.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

But fucking hell, not even OG trek bothered to actually give the other side of an aile an opportunity to make their point

I pointed out a few posts ago that The Riddler wasn't just fucking around with Kirk and asking NIGGLE ME THIS, JIM WHEN IS TEN PERCENT AS GOOD AS FIFTY! iirc they made it clear he had good reason to be big mad about the other dude who wasn't Frank Gorshim
and Kirk's "Hi, my name's Jim, and I'm a killaholic" speech wasn't exactly a glorious endorsement of his way

 

[JustSomeDong]

AKSHUALLY if you're really doing chronological order you start ds9 partway through TNG and watch your stardates, order of air isn't always chronological order

The Star Trek Chronology Project has a pdf checklist for this. But they bitched it all the fuck up when nutrek hit. I probably have a pre-nutrek version archived, somewhere.

 

[indomitable snowman]

my reaction to the the new kiwifarms theme

 

[UnKillFill]

-Snip-

Is it really right to call Bortus a "homophobe" when he comes from a literal race of faggots? XD Yes, I remember the episode you're referring to, and get why you called him that.

 

[Mystery Spy]

Yeah no shit the characters aren't throwing fucking sieg heils. I don't know what people here are expecting, Its still supposed to be a leftist socialist egalitarian utopia based on star trek where everyone holds hands and sings kumbaya.

But fucking hell, not even OG trek bothered to actually give the other side of an aile an opportunity to make their point and I implore anyone to give me any other example of a mainstream show where a "homophobe" was given a voice at all.

I love how Seth didn’t shy away from giving the good guys”flaws either . Remember Haveena? She’s the female Moclan leading the women’s resistance. She endangered Topa’s life and nearly got her—a literal child—killed. And the show made it clear she was straight-up wrong. Her revenge obsession turned her into a maliciously manipulative person.

In any basic show—or most current ones, for that matter (specially Nu Trek)—she’d be a flawless, untouchable heroine who can’t do wrong. But they made her morally gray too.

Even the admiral who betrayed the Union? I could 100% see where he was coming from. Gotta give Seth props for nailing one of the things that makes Trek great: treating viewers like adults.

 

[Clown College 2nd Year]

My dear Trekkie, they're all canon.

Even Kurtzman Trek?

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Especially Kurtzman Trek.

KURTZMAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!!!

Sorry that immediately came to mind when you posted that. I can't seem to bring myself to watch the Orville, every time I do I watch clips and it feels off to me. I get that it feels more Trek than Kurtzman Trek but I just don't feel like I'm missing anything. I've been watching Babylon 5, Farscape, and Stargate again since they're all on Amazon Prime and I feel pretty content with that. Should I try anyways? I dunno change my mind Kiwis.

 

[Miller]

Just about all of the plotlines around the Moclans have a clear political right side which I'm guessing happens to be MacFarlane's side. I point to the episode about the evil sexist Moclans oppressing the female underground railroad. But if I went over every instance of the show's writing having a political slant I'd be going over just about the entire content of the show. I still enjoyed a lot of The Orville but I'm just baffled anyone would say it doesn't try to insert some current year politics with a heavy bias. It's a little distracting, perhaps not catastrophically show-ruining I guess. Certain episodes I have no desire to rewatch because they're too heavy handed like this though.

It's about realpolitik. You can see throughout the show that the Union has a set of ideals but each species/member has its own culture that others tolerate to a certain point because they need them (the Moclans being the major weapon manufacturer for example). Everybody thought the Moclans were a monogender species until Bortus had a girl, then they learned that children born female are surgically forced to be male.

The fact that the "correct" opinion in the Orville as presented was, "trooning out children is morally wrong," (even if that was almost certainly accidental) and that the solution was to detransition her, will never not be based as fuck.

Also the Orville's sense of smug about atheism is nowhere near as insufferable as season 1 TNG.

While Seth is a leftist, I think there are topics (like this) where he is more conservative. The Reddit planet episode that he wrote for example was inspired by a novel and also on a news story about a woman who was harassed and lost her job after she made a joke on Twitter about hoping that she doesn't get AIDS as she was heading to Africa.

I can't seem to bring myself to watch the Orville, every time I do I watch clips and it feels off to me. I get that it feels more Trek than Kurtzman Trek but I just don't feel like I'm missing anything.

You should try again. It's a really good sci-fi show.

 

[Travoltron]

KURTZMAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!!!
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I just can't look at that Khanface without being disgusted,. knowing that's also Zachary Quinto's cocksucking face.

 

[Ultraman Orb Dark]

Is it really right to call Bortus a "homophobe" when he comes from a literal race of faggots? XD Yes, I remember the episode you're referring to, and get why you called him that.

Fair point. From his perspective, same-sex relationships are normal for him. It'd be like if we were visited by mushroom aliens who are disgusted by the idea of sex thanks to reproducing asexually. If anything, Bortus is a heterophobe.

I love how Seth didn’t shy away from giving the good guys”flaws either . Remember Haveena? She’s the female Moclan leading the women’s resistance. She endangered Topa’s life and nearly got her—a literal child—killed. And the show made it clear she was straight-up wrong. Her revenge obsession turned her into a maliciously manipulative person.

The best part is that she confesses how fucked up her actions were to, of all people, a hologram of Dolly Parton.

 

[The Nothingness]

I just can't look at that Khanface without being disgusted,. knowing that's also Zachary Quinto's cocksucking face.

I thought it was the face he makes when taking it in the ass.

 

[frozen_runner]

KURTZMAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!!!
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Sorry that immediately came to mind when you posted that. I can't seem to bring myself to watch the Orville, every time I do I watch clips and it feels off to me. I get that it feels more Trek than Kurtzman Trek but I just don't feel like I'm missing anything. I've been watching Babylon 5, Farscape, and Stargate again since they're all on Amazon Prime and I feel pretty content with that. Should I try anyways? I dunno change my mind Kiwis.

Yes, you should try. It's a show made by people who love and respect Trek, and it's made by people who worked on real Trek, and it frequently costars people from real Trek. If you're a true fan, you'll be able to notice which old episodes were cribbed from to make the new plots, but I don't think The Orville is trying to hide its influences at all. It's all loving reference and homage.

My only warning is the pilot is kind of weak.

 

[Clown College 2nd Year]

Yes, you should try. It's a show made by people who love and respect Trek, and it's made by people who worked on real Trek, and it frequently costars people from real Trek. If you're a true fan, you'll be able to notice which old episodes were cribbed from to make the new plots, but I don't think The Orville is trying to hide its influences at all. It's all loving reference and homage.

My only warning is the pilot is kind of weak.

Interesting, does it follow TNG's pattern where it doesn't really pick up till the third season or is it just the pilot that fall flat?

 

[frozen_runner]

Interesting, does it follow TNG's pattern where it doesn't really pick up till the third season or is it just the pilot that fall flat?

Just the pilot kind of sucks, IMO. The humor just isn't there yet.

(Look at the critic's Rotten Tomatoes score for season 1. Now look at the scores for seasons 2 and 3. The critics just decided they didn't like it in season 1 for some reason, but they came around when the tide turned. They probably only watched the pilot.)

Also, The Orville feels like Trek but it's simultaneously a loving pastiche of Trek. There are a number of 4th wall-breaking jokes, but the show is still serious a majority of the time.

Go in with no expectations and you'll probably enjoy it.

 

[ProfDongs]

The early part of the first season has problems with everything having to be undercut by a joke, the series gets a lot better about it as it goes along and finds a much better balance with the humor and the stories. I started with low expectations but by the end I was honestly surprised that I would be looking forward to another season. Definitely not what I expected going in.

 

[teriyakiburns]

I just can't look at that Khanface without being disgusted,. knowing that's also Zachary Quinto's cocksucking face.

All I hear now:

Also, The Orville feels like Trek but it's simultaneously a loving pastiche of Trek. There are a number of 4th wall-breaking jokes, but the show is still serious a majority of the time.

It's like Galaxy Quest got a series.

 

[Dumb mst3k fan]

What did you actually want to be in Star Trek? I always wanted to be medical or science. It just seemed to be the most interesting. You would rarely be in command but you would have a better time of it

 

[UnKillFill]

Fair point. From his perspective, same-sex relationships are normal for him. It'd be like if we were visited by mushroom aliens who are disgusted by the idea of sex thanks to reproducing asexually. If anything, Bortus is a heterophobe.

Yeah I remember the episode and even see the point, I was just being an asshole.