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hoe_math / Justin Quirici / Justin Careesi - "HISTORY'S MANLIEST HILARIOUS SEX GENIUS", Makes autistic charts, kicked off the cunt carousel, Chubby Chaser, "discriminated" against for being a white male, wants the Bible to be rewritten, COVID RUINED HIS DREAM JOB!
I think what you're noticing is that there are layers of obfuscation in relationships. Of course women don't go "Beep, boop, you lost your job so I'm dumping you." They go "I just don't feel it anymore, I need some space."
PUAs were/are decades ahead of "the science" when it comes to this stuff so of course there's no data.
No. They are in fact decades behind. Especially if your example is “women don’t like it when you lose your job and might leave you, thank a PUA for discovering this.”
I can just list things off the top of my head they were always misunderstanding/lying about: the 80/20 rule is unisex, what a dark triad personality is, and college-educated women divorcing more when it’s the complete opposite.
Think fast: how many PUAs can actually post receipts of hot women who like them? The rare occasions they come close the women they’re seen with are clearly escorts. Meanwhile “cucks” like Harry Sisson had a dozen young and attractive women going out of their way to cancel him for being an actual cunning manipulator.
They have less than zero bona fides. All their feats are really anti-feats.
The biggest thing that hit millennial men was the propaganda that it was wrong to show sexuality as a man, explaining how wokies do the Suprise I have a penis game, otherwise act as eunuchs. (we all know how much women HATE this in real life)
How long can you pad out the basic message of, "Be bold, handsome and have a value(money,status,etc)"?
Money troubles impact relationships no matter the gender, but I can see it happening like this in addition to fair weather women:
>A Man loses s job
>Man comes home depressed nd lashes out at Woman he is dating
>Man keeps being depressed without a job and does not take his frustration out healthily
>Woman attempts to bridge gap, but ends up tired of being snapped at since the man cannot control his frustration at the unfairness of his situation
>Woman thinks about other issues that have cropped up in the relationship
>Decideds she is tired, leaves
Men's self worth can be heavily tied to their job. While there are relationships that survive economic downturns, it is harder to stand by someone always snapping at you. It can also be hard to stand by someone who tucks into their shell and sinks into an always online depression, especially if someone reached out to them and they don't budge (both genders can do this). Relationships and people are complex. It can be that the woman is a callous, shallow person, but in that case, it is better if she leaves the man because well, why would you want a shallow fair weathered friend like that? But it can also be from the man's side or a multi-leveled type of problem.
No. They are in fact decades behind. Especially if your example is “women don’t like it when you lose your job and might leave you, thank a PUA for discovering this.”
I can just list things off the top of my head they were always misunderstanding/lying about: the 80/20 rule is unisex, what a dark triad personality is, and college-educated women divorcing more when it’s the complete opposite.
Think fast: how many PUAs can actually post receipts of hot women who like them? The rare occasions they come close the women they’re seen with are clearly escorts. Meanwhile “cucks” like Harry Sisson had a dozen young and attractive women going out of their way to cancel him for being an actual cunning manipulator.
They have less than zero bona fides. All their feats are really anti-feats.
Why did you take what was clearly an example of the covert nature of women as an example of something PUAs are ahead of the data on? Are you being deliberately obtuse?
I don’t have to “think fast,” I have my personal experience to draw from. Beyond that nothing will meet your lofty expectations, the excuses are built-in; either a guy doesn’t have receipts or the receipts are escorts. Harry Sisson…are you saying Women are attracted to notoriety? Wow, thanks for playing. You’re really adding a lot to the conversation.
Stay in your mom’s basement and pretend the only reason you can’t get a girl is because you missed out on the genetic lottery or whatever rather than you’re weak-willed, ball-less faggot. I don’t give a shit. The gene pool is better off without you. Just don’t pretend your blathering is anything close to a valid response.
Why did you take what was clearly an example of the covert nature of women as an example of something PUAs are ahead of the data on? Are you being deliberately obtuse?
I don’t have to “think fast,” I have my personal experience to draw from. Beyond that nothing will meet your lofty expectations, the excuses are built-in; either a guy doesn’t have receipts or the receipts are escorts. Harry Sisson…are you saying Women are attracted to notoriety? Wow, thanks for playing. You’re really adding a lot to the conversation.
Stay in your mom’s basement and pretend the only reason you can’t get a girl is because you missed out on the genetic lottery or whatever rather than you’re weak-willed, ball-less faggot. I don’t give a shit. The gene pool is better off without you. Just don’t pretend your blathering is anything close to a valid response.
Because I think you will find that's the norm-- they act like they discovered something that has been studied already, and they misrepresent the findings.
I mean, I can tell when a woman was likely paid to pose next to someone. That isn't me being unfalsifiable. And Harry Sisson didn't get those girls by being notorious. He got them by pretending to be blue-pilled. This is why red-pillers called him a cuck and now pretend they never did when he's provably more successful than they are. He did the opposite of what they suggest, even when they suggest lying to women they usually mean "buy a leather jacket and pretend to be a high maintenance bad boy." That's why it's funny and it lets you see the grift work in real time as they rush to rewrite history.
You just don't know anything. And also you're obviously a fan of these guys, so don't try to call me the incel here.
Because I think you will find that's the norm-- they act like they discovered something that has been studied already, and they misrepresent the findings.
I mean, I can tell when a woman was likely paid to pose next to someone. That isn't me being unfalsifiable. And Harry Sisson didn't get those girls by being notorious. He got them by pretending to be blue-pilled. This is why redpillers called him a cuck and now pretend they never did when he's provably more successful than they are.
You just don't know anything, and also you're obviously a fan of these guys. Don't try to call me the incel here.
Thank you for the background info on Michael Sartain.
I tried to look up what Real Social Dynamics was last night, but didn't find much that was concise and useful and quickly lost interest.
I couldn't find any proof directly linking Sartain to the program, but he was certainly at least adjacent. He interviewed/was interviewed with people associated with the program in 2015 and did some follow-up with some of the instructors involved on his current podcast channel in 2022.
Real Social Dynamics seems like your standard PUA paid hustle. They seemed to have gone under in 2018 overnight closing their site & forums.
There's this really surreal Reality TV vibe to their content to an outsider. They list all these male dudebro "instructors" who go by a nomenclature system like "RSD Todd" or "RSD Luke". Talking about being so exhausted from traveling the world, going to events, etc.
Then the whole thing collapsed and there seemed to be lots of anklebiting in the aftermath.
He was on the reality show "Millionaire Matchmaker" and is a big Vegas social butterfly. He's known for being friends with many professional hot chicks and claims that these social circles are how he gets laid with beautiful women without much effort.
He strikes me as a dork that plays the "surprise, I have a penis!" game with his female friends.
Interesting. His episode was something like Season 7, Episode 17 on Bravo airing Apr 10th, 2014.
Some of the bios for the show call him 35/36 at the time, putting him in his late 40s now.
I also saw it mentioned he was in the service for 7 years (saw an alog YT comment claiming he was only Captain for 4, flying a Navigator plane not in combat).
There is also mention in 2014 (likely earlier, as the episode aired in 2014, but could've been filmed in 2013 or before) that he was already doing Vegas PR nightlife stuff a decade plus ago.
The show apparently labeled him as an "Inner Geek", reading about Astronomy and playing basketball.
I clipped out the segment where Sartain's squeeze gets lippy and embarrasses him on the Whatever Podcast saying he's been droning on for 20 mins along with her later insincere canned apology on Fresh and Fit (this reaction clip is from Feb '24 - tried to minimize the reaction parts)
(btw the guy who made this video is a bigger cow than anyone previously mentioned; he got kicked out of an RSD bootcamp for getting so drunk he was charged with (I believe) something like attempted kidnapping, moved to South America to teach bootcamps where students have witnessed him hookup with trannies and he pays escorts to bang his students so they think his material works. And his GF is almost certainly an escort.)
The John Anthony reaction guy was really irritating. Suing and grudges with everyone, constantly interrupting and talking over clips, shilling his own PUA paid scams.
------------------
In summary, I didn't mind Sartain when he was the first person of note to interview hoe_math all the way back in Nov '23. But I did find him elusive about his own background, education, current hustle, etc. He really oversold his evolutionary psychology background (self-taught, no formal education, has a BBA in Business from decades ago).
I watched one of hoe_math's 2023 solo Lives after this 1st interview where he admitted not knowing Sartain's background and didn't do his homework. AFAICT, they haven't collabed or interacted online since.
Personally, after reading about Sartain's PUA type scams, no formal education in Psychology and a decade plus doing shady VIP nightclub promotion/beauty pageants/bikini contests, I think a lot less of him even though he carried well in the interview.
------------------
I remember watching the OG 2023 hoe_math/Sartain interview in 2023 contemporaneously. I rewatched it again for the OP a few weeks back in 2025.
I'm going to clip dump some parts of the interview I thought were relevant to the thread that didn't make the OP or discussion here yet.
- I don't like how people treat each other
- Lived quite some time in a major city, saw up close how [leftists] treat each other over subtle disagreements
- worried about swatting like Tim Pool, Adin Ross
- doesn't want to interact with people on that level
- just wants to make $$$, move to a mountain in Colorado
- There is a crisis with civilization
- He's coming at it through dating
- He has lots of personal experience with the subject
- Thinks academics like Macken Murphy sometimes misinterprets the scientific data
hoe_math: The government has become women's boyfriends
hm
- complaining governments are stepping in as women's bfs
- government redistributes wealth, takes from men, gives it women
- makes women believe they don't need no man
- but without happy, productive men, infrastructure fails, bottom rots out of society
- women are 60% of current college enrolled, 68% of new grads
"Mate Choice Copying and the Sexy Sons Hypothesis"
Mate Choice Copying
HM had friend that all girls fought over, was confused.
Girls found the inter-competition itself sexy.
hoe_math tells an anecdote that he was in a relationship and was rawdogging regularly. Gf found condoms in his apt, indicating he was stepping out/wasn't exclusive. Paradoxically, this made him more attractive to her because her evolutionary desires were telling her he was pre-approved by other women, suggesting better DNA
Sexy Sons Hypothesis
- An evolutionary biology theory
- Posits women subconsciously want future sexy traits in sons (ie. height) so that their own female DNA has a better chance to be passed along in perpetuity
- women can't propagate their own DNA
- thus a subconscious evolutionary strategy is to select traits for sons that other women find sexy, increasing DNA propagation in future generations
- women want Bad Boy DNA in current partner and future sons, so future male offspring have many sons
- " The Bad Boy having many [future] sons is what she desires "
- Women will create drama to see if you react, lose attraction if you do because they don’t want a reactionary male (Shit Test)
HM - To keep women happy, you have to show you have the ability to attract other women, but not actually participate
- Keep her anxious she might lose you, the "Almost Lost Him" excitement loop to stave off boredom, create attraction via Mate Choice Copying
- Invest just enough kindness to show you care, but excess niceness makes one look weak and unsexy
- half of it is physical appearance, hygiene
- other half is masculinity
- divides masculinity into Power and Confidence
- Power - actual ability to get things done
- Confidence - positive attitude in own ability to accomplish
- other factors - Social Status, Muscles, Skills (ie playing guitar, Competitiveness
- "Learn to Win at Something Impressive, Then Go Somewhere She Can See You Do It"
- Be Impressive, Be Dominant
- Show that you can drop your empathy when threatened by something that calls for it
hoe_math on dating for himself:
"I'm tired, not looking, not trying"
Sartain asks HM what his future plan is for dating, dealing with his inevitable dox, doxing to women suitors
HM
- I'm tired, not looking, not trying
- only interested in interacting with female fans via ones that slip into social media DMs, is screening them as he goes
- if one seems particularly right, plans to reveal to them his ID and location
- otherwise not even willing to go so far as to meet someone at the bar down the street
(This would be foreshadowing, as Zoomer rich musician fangirl would move in with him at his wilderness fortress several months later)
Because I think you will find that's the norm-- they act like they discovered something that has been studied already, and they misrepresent the findings.
I mean, I can tell when a woman was likely paid to pose next to someone. That isn't me being unfalsifiable. And Harry Sisson didn't get those girls by being notorious. He got them by pretending to be blue-pilled. This is why red-pillers called him a cuck and now pretend they never did when he's provably more successful than they are. He did the opposite of what they suggest, even when they suggest lying to women they usually mean "buy a leather jacket and pretend to be a high maintenance bad boy." That's why it's funny and it lets you see the grift work in real time as they rush to rewrite history.
You just don't know anything. And also you're obviously a fan of these guys, so don't try to call me the incel here.
Which girls are escorts??? How can you really know? Even if you're in the room watching them fuck maybe you missed the money exchange??? That's the problem with guys like you, there's nothing that can appease your skepticism. It's easier to just say it doesn't work and it's all a scam.
I'm only vaguely familiar with Harry Sisson and I'm not totally clear on what you're saying there. Who are these red pillers you're talking about? I don't think I know of a single "red pill" guy that isn't a complete clown?
But really you're being way too vague to really respond to. Some guys made some claims and they're not true or they're not unique thoughts. Okay, great. I don't know what you're talking about.
And I'm not a fan of anyone. It's not in me to be a fan of someone, essentially placing someone above myself. I just have an affinity for some of these guys because I used to be one of them. I learned a lot from some of them. I came up in that scene from the very beginning. I've watched them grow as I myself grew. I don't know what's on his channel these days but if you can find early videos of RSD Tyler/Owen Cook and compare them to how he comes across now, you can't deny that he has changed (not just in waist size). You might not like what he developed into but he's certainly less awkward than he was 15 years ago.
I don't think "PUA" is an unalloyed good, just like I don't believe anything else is. There's a lot of scammers, "coaches" who take students money and then don't actually coach the student and refuse promised refunds, people who aren't qualified to speak on the subject, people who exaggerate their abilities. Or guys who talk virgins into casual sex, or just add notches to otherwise good girls (they rationalize it because women "get more" out of sex via multiple orgasms but the cock carousel is still bad for them).
However I fully believe game can also save lives. What if Elliot Rogers had done 10 approaches a day, in good faith, and tried to learn from his failures rather than being a butthurt, spoiled faggot? What if he learned to take his lumps and improve himself so that he began to creep women out less and less, maybe eventually learning to become a somewhat normal person? What one man can learn another man can learn. It is not impossible. If you're a lonely dork get over yourself and give it a shot.
Think fast: how many PUAs can actually post receipts of hot women who like them? The rare occasions they come close the women they’re seen with are clearly escorts. Meanwhile “cucks” like Harry Sisson had a dozen young and attractive women going out of their way to cancel him for being an actual cunning manipulator.
I mean, I can tell when a woman was likely paid to pose next to someone. That isn't me being unfalsifiable. And Harry Sisson didn't get those girls by being notorious. He got them by pretending to be blue-pilled. This is why red-pillers called him a cuck and now pretend they never did when he's provably more successful than they are. He did the opposite of what they suggest, even when they suggest lying to women they usually mean "buy a leather jacket and pretend to be a high maintenance bad boy." That's why it's funny and it lets you see the grift work in real time as they rush to rewrite history.
I went back to look at some of the stuff I'd clipped for the OP. I was surprised I didn't really have hoe_math directly addressing the "celebrity, money & power breaks the standard attraction rules" outlier stuff.
I also haven't reviewed contemporary hoe_math content from when the Harry Sisson spurned dozen women nudes things surfaced because I've been focused on his early work from going viral in 2023.
Closest thing I have is a clip from Apr 2nd, 2025 from Fresh & Fit where Myron Gaines argues (with hoe_math's mostly silent agreement) that one has to be conservative/RW to be redpilled because treating the sexual marketplace as "egalitarian" will lead to failure (ie. The normal guy making 60-70k).
And that LW figures like Hasan Piker who advocate for the egalitarian model don't actually believe in it or practice is themselves because their status and wealth gives them a free pass.
Bonus content Archive
Very prophetic tweet here from hoe_math, 4 months before the reveal of Harry's harem, suggesting that if he just started to lift, bro, he would really slay.
The biggest thing that hit millennial men was the propaganda that it was wrong to show sexuality as a man, explaining how wokies do the Suprise I have a penis game, otherwise act as eunuchs.
In reviewing his content, hoe_math is pretty consistent in recommending most (average) men not Cold Approach women in public or women they find attractive but don't know.
He consistently recommends something he terms "The Bird Test" where a man in an appropriate social setting makes an invitation of sorts to discuss an object or a topic of potential mutual interest, best if it is relevant and in the immediate vicinity.
The invitation to discuss a non-sexual, non-threatening third party concept or object can then be used to gauge her interest in engaging with you further. While also allowing for plausible deniability that you weren't actually flirting if she doesn't respond enthusiastically.
hoe_math also talks a lot about appropriate settings to engage women. He really does seem to have empathy for the woman’s perspective, that she shouldn't have to be swatting away unwanted attention from random dudes in everyday settings that she obviously isn't inviting it - on the subway, in the grocery store, at work, etc.
He actively discourages Cold Approaching women in general and flirting with women in everyday common public spaces specifically, which may set him apart from of the "it's a numbers game, don't fear rejection and just keep shooting your shot" PUA/redpill types.
*In this clip, hoe_math is asked by a superchatter about Cold Approach with women
hm: Cold approach - doesn't like it
Most people don't do it skillfully
They just run up to women, "Hey baby, can I get your number?"
Women get uncomfortable, most people don't do it well.
Makes most women unhappy, puts them on guard.
Makes them [dread] "Oh God, I have to do this again" every time they leave the house.
?? If you can do it skilfully, it could be effective ??
hoe_math personally tried it a few times when younger, tried even fewer times when older.
Worked better after he had "learned stuff"
Was only [ultimately] successful once
Not his favorite way to do it, prefer the Bird Test
Prefers to test the waters, see if she wants to talk
If she doesn't, he [can] just be on [his] way instead of trying to [sell] himself
TL; DW - Make sure you are good at it, know what you are doing [first]
hoe_math essentially says that bars are just about the only appropriate social setting where it is implied that women are inviting Cold Approaching.
Mr. 120+-notches-on-the-bedpost mostly used apps himself for his conquests, but he does say that he mostly used "The Bird Test" techniques otherwise. He personally says he hardly Cold Approached at all in his prime.
Instead of Cold Approaching women, he usually coaches hopeless superchatters to:
1) join a community where you can be seen by women (church, hobby, sports league, etc)
2) do "impressive things" within that community that will get her attention, particularly after she gets familiar with you. Which helps to decrease your Not People Zone invisibility if you aren't close to a 10/10 in looks as per the Female Delusion Chart scoring, which even hoe_math admits smoothes out to closer to the normal bell curve in rating attractiveness for men familiar to her in her social circle vs strange men on the street & apps (essentially only attracted to Chads)
**Mildly interesting as well that hoe_math's Bird Test video from a year ago specifically credits Psychologist John Gottman's work on the topic. To which Rich Cooper a year later during hoe_math's Apr 1st, 2025 interview with him, disparaged Gottman on air as being too beta and giving husband material-tier advice to acquiesce to your wife's demands.
A commenter trained in the "Gottman method" psychology relationship analysis, which is a Minority Report-style approach to predicting marriage doom from a retired Jewish prof in WA.
hoe_math thinks modern art is shit
hoe_math consoling a Not People Zone male then telling him to hit the gym and pull up his bootstraps
hoe_math: "There is no male equivalent of The Friend Zone"
Isn't the "bird test" just the "plausible deniability" shit that PUA types harped on a decade ago? Basically not outright asking her over for sex but just saying some vague BS that both of you know is just an excuse for sex. Also people really need to stop recommending clubs/social hobbies as a cure-all. Mainly because a) every other dude is pretty much there for the same thing and b) girls there won't even notice you unless you're constantly showing off. It's OK if you're a social butterfly who enjoys that shit on its own but recommending it to incels with extreme social anxiety is absolutely retarded.
He's correct that cold approach can be hit-or-miss because most guys just autistically walk up to girls and start straight off with "hey, you're sexy, lemme get them digits so we can fuck later" instead of trying to have a normal conversation but that's less a problem with the approach itself and more with the fact that social skills are virtually nonexistent nowadays when it comes to talking to strangers.
Also there is a "friend zone" for men. It's called keeping women as fucktoys without intending to make any of them your girlfriends or wives. This seems counterintuitive because the girls are still getting laid but that's because sex to women isn't as much of a big deal as it is to men. Sure the average girl enjoys having it but they don't place a premium on it like guys do.
I couldn't find any proof directly linking Sartain to the program, but he was certainly at least adjacent. He interviewed/was interviewed with people associated with the program in 2015 and did some follow-up with some of the instructors involved on his current podcast channel in 2022.
Oh bless his little heart. He reminds me of myself when I first discovered /pol/ ten years ago. Finding all the posts about crime statistics and the Talmud and how every media outlet is owned by six corporations, and thinking I'd just discovered the source code of reality. I thought I had it all figured out, and that I'd joined an esoteric order bent on enlightening the world by waking up the sheeple normies. It took years of stock market crash prophecies failing to come true and dozens of SIEGE readers posting themselves into prison cells for me to realize that much more of it was noise than signal, and the mental bullshit filter I've grown over time is what allows me to exist on the Racist Parts Of The Internet nowadays without going insane.
Difference between him and me is I was a retarded teenager at the time. He is a forty year old man, he should know better than to believe every 4chan screencap he reads, even if it has the fancy picture of the egyptian frog holding the number 77.
Am I retarded or is it a dumb/naive to trust a dude on youtube who only goes by "BK" and says he works for the FBI teaching psychological profiling? Like, the moment I heard that I immediately tuned out because these were all the red flags I associate with the classic "Bullshit Charlatan". Did anyone force themselves to sit through the video?
Also, has anyone here taken the bait to sign up for his latest business venture?
SELF-MAX applies the latest AI technology to understand who you are, find out what you want, and help you make it happen, one step at a time.
His long-ass effortpost is sort of silly, as is his graphic, because Sisson is not an outlier except in the sense he was comfortable really lying to these girls. Sisson’s views on (how to relate to) women are more normal among guys with women than their own views are. And again these decades-at-large master seducers have zero young women trying to cancel them for a pump and dump.
Red-pill men are actually uniquely unsuccessful with women if we don’t take them at their word and instead look at things that just don’t add up. Like Zherka having to bail his “girlfriends” out of jail and the way they describe dating being more like veiled polyamory (they themselves say they see their women less than once a week and insist cheating is really common… put it together). I grant Hoe Math doesn’t make those mistakes but he doesn’t notice them either and is fine approving of people like Myron (who definitely fits that second example).
Also Hoe Math repeating broadly agreeable platitudes but being wrong in the details and having to overexplain how he’s still correct would fit the profile set by his dumb opinions outside of men and women.
The secret sauce of this stuff is just that dumbass men and women make worse choices and have more casual sex they end up regretting while smart people don’t. Ergo these influencers can always point to caddish behavior being superficially successful. And most of their audience are from broken homes anyway so it fits. But it’s utterly tone deaf to anyone who had real parents, or isn’t a sleazy ethnic.
yes? you ever watch Dr.Who? the whole "man telling the woman about cool shit and taking her on adventures" is goonette bait, hell at least a dozen trannies have said they realized they wanted to be a girl because they wanted to be the companion instead of the doctor in those scenarios.
I watched his Lives semi-regularly in 2024. I also discovered and regularly followed his Twitter sometime later, intrigued at how much more unhinged, blackpilled and political it was compared to his regular stuff.
With the new OP, I've gone back to reviewing and clipping a lot of his initial Lives dating back to fall 2023. I'm currently around mid-Jan 2024.
if you have a job where you can listen or watch stuff, people are surprised how easy it is to cover years of someone's life and clip them. when most podcasts top out at 100 hours a year its very easy to catch up on a creep.
its not about the socks. its about that being his one small bit of fun that night and she even ruined that. its like throwing a bitch out right after a one night stand like a common whore. like you can do so much to that type of hoe, but if you even take away that small respect she had, then she's going to be angry.
Its why like 99% of the rape accusations seem to come from guys who treat women like shit on a regular basis, meanwhile a guy like Mark Normand can fuck teenage girls all the time, but he makes them breakfast and calls them an uber and says goodbye and hugs them and waves and thats why he gets away with being a serial child molester.
thats enough for most men/men might not want anything else if they're under 30. if you're the type of dude that wants relationships over skanks you're probably not the type to drop money on e-celebs either.
Meanwhile “cucks” like Harry Sisson had a dozen young and attractive women going out of their way to cancel him for being an actual cunning manipulator.
to be fair if you're young and college aged and charismatic like him it really is shooting fish in a barrel. The problem is those types aren't in need of relationship advice nor willing to give it out. its obvious his fanbase is the "sensitive young man" demo, if you're already satisfied with your relationships you wouldn't be interacting with him, like even by his own admission he's had way more bodies before he graduated college than after and he's in his 40s now. meaning less hook ups in the 20 years after college than the 4 years of college.
) join a community where you can be seen by women (church, hobby, sports league, etc)
2) do "impressive things" within that community that will get her attention, particularly after she gets familiar with you. Which helps to decrease your Not People Zone invisibility if you aren't close to a 10/10 in looks as per the Female Delusion Chart scoring, which even hoe_math admits smoothes out to closer to the normal bell curve in rating attractiveness for men familiar to her in her social circle vs strange men on the street & apps (essentially only attracted to Chads)
thats only about 25% of young people, and thats if you believe "still married=real parents" plenty of parents that are shit and still together look at the rekietas
thats only about 25% of young people, and thats if you believe "still married=real parents" plenty of parents that are shit and still together look at the rekietas
And they tell you to double down on it. To act more fatherless than ever. What they suggest will largely attract women who are the type to cut corners and run when bored.
MSc in Cognitive and Behavioral Neuroscience.
Research interests in attractiveness & dating.
He also has a competing dating matchmaker AI product (hoe_math's is technically a self-improvement AI app, not a matchmaker service)
The OG Sept 3rd, 2024 @datepsych tweet Archive
His argument seems to boil down to "negative attitudes towards female promiscuity & higher body counts is simply misinformation being spread by coping & seething incels & uggos. And I have research literature to prove it."
To which hoe_math inserts himself into the discussion, seemingly just so he can post the midwit meme.
I'm not quite sure what his overarching point, besides that he wanted to point out that he can't be an incel even if he's a 40 y/o single washout because he fucked 120+ women.
So he gets to be the high IQ druid character in the bell curve outlier meme.
This led to a "whom is really baiting whom" situation where Alexander declares that there is no way to determine if hoe_math is a Chadlite without photographic evidence.
Where hoe_math takes the opportunity to humblebrag about how pretty he used to be and provide us with the only undated photo we have to work with previously dug up by @Inside your walls
Rando X critic: Have you ever considered actually referencing empirical literature instead of just making up crackpot theories and stating them as fact?
Rando X critic: [Does] hoe_math agree and disavows evolutionary psychology research as "BS surveys"?
hoe_math: Kind of silly to categorically accept or reject an entire classification of collecting information To Be Quite Honest With You Fam.
There are correct and incorrect ways to conduct surveys, and most people have difficulty discerning between them.
Twitter Rando #1: Not my fault [hoe_math] rode the muff merry go round and hit the wall.
Twitter Rando #2: Men don't hit the wall.
Twitter Rando #3: hoe_math has
hoe_math: I hit my looks wall, but men have 2 walls. Women have one.
...
...Hugh Hefner was banging 22 y/os until he died. I dated an attractive 22 y/o woman this year (Note: he's referring to Rich Zoomer Musician Girl in spring 2024). Men with means have options through status & power.
I don't struggle to get women. I am just sad that they don't get to see me in my prime anymore.
All the nice girls I chose bailed out on me because I was not able to find work due to being a white male and not checking diversity boxes. I was not able to anticipate that this would happen in 2003 when I declared a major. I would never have chosen liberal arts otherwise.
Twitter rando: There’s a reason why Chads can get [sic] lot of sex, but can't find a good LTR.
hoe_math: ...some of the women I liked told me they avoided me because my sexual success was a bad sign. I didn't anticipate that.
hoe_math: "I have always been strongly attracted to nose ring girls and I regret it every time, and always for the same reason.
Twitter rando: Why are these nose ring girls bad?
hoe_math: Not sure. "my nest guess so far is that the nose ring is meant to suggest "lead me around by the nose...if you think you can."
"And then they are all BPD, so as soon as you tie your shoes wrong you're the devil and she attacks."
Though hoe_math doesn't personally identify as a "conservative", he has created a dividing ideological line between the right-leaning content creators he is friendly with (ie. Michael Sartain, Myron Gaines, Rich Cooper) and the more bluepilled types he feuds with on Twitter (ie. Alexander from Dating Psychology, RadfemHitler, constantly sperging about leftists, his passive-aggressive Sex Fight collab with academic Macken Murphy in 2023).
Also, as evidenced by his "you have The Science but there must be more than Science" reply above, despite being super analytical himself and running all his dating advice through his God mentor Ken Wilber's AQAL Levels chart scoring, ultimately hoe_math prefers to rely heavily on his owned "lived [manwhore] experience" and preferring the company of less credentialed "feel" PUA/ manosphere types like Sartain (self-taught Evo Psych), Fresh&Fit, Rich Cooper, etc.
Archive Archive
hoe_math is not impressed by Alexander's rambling Oct '24 take on Daniel Penny
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hoe_math seems to be agreeing with Alexander here that modern therapy is pozzed blaming the "patriarchy" or "white supremacy" for men's problems.
counseling is mostly just institutionalized malpractice. perverse incentives. keep em sad and they keep coming back.
I learned this one the hard way, holy shit. I used to trust doctors as a kid, even into my 20s I think. Now I see every doctor I don't know as a 90% chance of being a checked-out midwit with an approval certificate to push drugs.
- hoe_math doesn't trust doctors
- hoe_math may have powerleveled that he was in therapy as a youth
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hoe_math is pushing back against Alexander's assertion that highly-educated women divorce less.
"It seems very likely to me that older women who’ve been career-focused for a long time and didn't marry until late are a lot less likely to form relationships that function and are pleasant for the man.
hoe_math is skeptical of ageing out girlboss career babes.
"ignoring that possibility is one of the things andrew does a lot, pretending that badly insufficient data can be extrapolated in ways that don't logically follow. this is how he shoehorns his unconscious biases into what he calls "data"."
hoe_math calls @datepsych a bad, biased scientist who operates in bad faith while also throwing shade at him with a possible Freudian slip calling him "andrew".
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hoe_math takes issue with Alexander making an ID pol type argument that "you have to be the thing in order to know & criticize said thing".
He then revels in "I told you so" when a poster reveals that @datepsych quoted from a leftist academic paper.
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hoe_math responds to someone else that doesn't believe the public school system disadvantages young boys by being too feminized, particularly genius little squirmers like himself Archive
Alexander butts in this time, saying eugenic racial disparities in IQ aren't real, schools have been "feminized" for centuries even before girls were educated and boys who can't sit still are stupid, neurotic morons who all have learning disabilities Archive
hoe_math: the way he makes his living depends on him not learning or changing his mind. he's a member of the priest class for leftoid woke cult. all he does is shoehorn everything into his belief set using semi-related data to sweep his biases under the rug and pretend they're science. it's not worth it to engage with that
hoe_math: "These numbers I selectively measured according to my personal biases and inability to understand the topic prove that you didn't actually have that experience!" - Every other datepsych post
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Alexander butts in that manosphere types like hoe_math with a victim complex blame society for their failings like the " woke left", but it's actually their genes that are most responsible.
datepsych: There are men who have been falsely imprisomed for crimes that they didn't commit who whine less than hoe_math
datepsych: This is someone who feels very aggrieved by society despite having lived what many people would call a fairly privileged life: two parents with good jobs, lots of casual sex and relationships, graduate degree, Not short, works out, claims to be attractive
hoe_math: Great example of "kick the dog til it bites you, then shoot it"
"Why are upset that I set your house on fire? Maybe you shouldn't have such an EXTERNAL LOCUS OF CONTROL."
Leftoid bugmen are not capable understanding context. They view the world as a flat, consistent playing field even as they viciously force redistribution of value towards some groups and away from others.
hoe_math: Thank you for the demonstration of my accusations against you. Your mental limitations are on full display in this reply.
...
Leftist bugmen have literally told me to my face "we know you did the work to earn this. but you can't have it because you are a white male."
Are you so dim that you're unaware this is happening? Or so evil that you pretend it's not?
Absolutely fucking insufferable. The man buns and the beard ties never fail to point out the rats.
hoe_math: [Man buns] are a demonstration of submission. It says "I know other men will see me as feminine for choosing this, and I choose it anyway in order to receive approval from the collective."
It's like spiritually shoving stuff up your own butt to show you're not a threat.
hoe_math: At a certain point, they are just too stupid or too evil to be treated with dignity. I watched Alexander's posts for a while because I wasn't sure what his angle was but it turns out that it's the standard woke anti-west poison. Fuck that altogether.
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Alexander mocking men complaining that women have invaded all their nerd hobby spaces. He calls them manchildren and tells them to go get some toxic masculinity hobbies if they want to gatekeep women out. Archive
hoe_math: He starts with whatever conclusion hurts western civilization most and then sniffs out whatever makes it look legit. That is why the sciences are unreliable. Myth of Man the Hunter.
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Alexander showing research that higher IQ may correlate with conformity (ie. COVID compliance).
hoe_math posits the midwit bellcurve meme may be real.
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datepsych presents data that apps have increased, not decreased couples choosing partners that look like them (ie. "associative mating" - choosing a mate with similar physical features/phenotype to one's own)
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datepsych & hoe_math agree that most Burgers couldn't imagine how they'd feel if they didn't have breakfast this morning. Archive
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datepsych: "why should I was my ass if no one is going to tell me how good it smells"
hoe_math: "A lot of academics don't distinguish between the data and their interpretationa of what the data means about life. They tend to have not failed much, and so have not met the mechanisms of failure, allowing them to assume that the playing field is level. They project that onto the data and weave narratives without knowing it."
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datepsych: Are we doing capitalism here or not?
hoe_math: The 2008 subprime mortgage crisis made me unemployed and sent me to the library to read Ken Wilber
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datepsych & hoe_math bond over Dark Triad traits being sexy
Highly educated women who get married to successful men divorce less, that is true. Highly educated women who get hitched to unambitious losers divorce a lot.
I’m gonna wager a guess that Hoey is basing his assertion on the latter class, for obvious reasons. Not that I’m defending Date Psych, that guy is an astroturfed, connected tool.
Also for a supposedly Chad physique, Hoey’s photo isn’t all that impressive.
