Katholic Kiwi Kathedral (Catholocism General) - Byzantine? Ethnic? Roman? It doesn't matter. It's a place for Catholic Kiwis to discuss Catholicism and inquirers to inquire

[French Dip]

Because in terms of theology and legitimacy we are and it is. Deal with it.

Then take it up with the State, not the Church. We have separation of the two for a reason. Why are you complaining to the Church about a State matter? What do you expect the Church to do? The Church does not have the power to deport people from your country nor should it.

Your pope wields immense soft power, and he has used it to encourage our nations to fling our borders wide open. The largest NGOs providing aid to illegals are jewish, and the second largest are Catholic. So don't you dare repeat "separation of church and state" to me.

 

[French Dip]

Do you want a religion that will validate all of your personal beliefs, and use it as a means to legitimize your politics? Or do you want a religion that actually has a foundation that isn't Internet purity spiraling bullshit, that doesn't even have anything to do with the religion. It doesn't even sound like you want Christianity, you want the idea of a christianity you imagined that magically aligns perfectly with your very specific criteria.

You have no idea what I want out of Christianity. But one thing I absolutely do not want it to do is to encourage my politicians to invite hoards of foreigners. I don't need them to have a role in removing them either, just stay out of it. If you believe in separation of church and state then act like it.

But if this is about "proper" Biblical beliefs, where in the Bible does God command his children to flood their nations with foreigners? If that's what I have to deal with as a Christian then surely you can tell me.

 

[Local Farmer]

@French Dip stop shitting up this thread with your bad faith arguments and negative reaction farming.

I have on ignored so every time I mention him it’s purely to annoy him (which I’ll stop because its getting mean tbh) but ignoring him is probably for the best because I looked through his history before doing so and don’t see anything of actual note that he’s ever posted on this site. He’s already gotten all the answers to his questions before I put him on the ignore, but I assume he is still is going at it like a histrionic Faggot. I hope he Finds Jesus soon instead of autistically screeching on Mongolian basket weaving forums about the Pope in a religion he’s not even apart of or connected to in any way (including non-catholic Christianity because he doesn’t believe in God).

 

[Preacher ✝]

Your pope wields immense soft power, and he has used it to encourage our nations to fling our borders wide open. The largest NGOs providing aid to illegals are jewish, and the second largest are Catholic. So don't you dare repeat "separation of church and state" to me.

Catholicism is a religion of love, compassion, forgiveness and charity. When you apply the teachings of Christ to the plight of refugees the logical conclusion is to help them and encourage others to help them too.

What it seems like you want is for the Church to compromise on it's morals because the State isn't doing it's part. In this situation it is the State that has the responsibility and the power. The Church wants to help people, the State has overtaxed its citizens so much that they are not donating to the Church as much as they used to. This means the Church does not have sufficient funding to help the people it wants to help in their own countries. Meanwhile the same State that overtaxes its citizens also provides welfare programs and welcomes foreigners in. Thus the most effective way for the Church to help people is by getting them into that State.

In other words the State has created the circumstances that resulted in this situation, and the Church is merely doing it's job within those circumstances. The State also has the power to change these circumstances. It can stop overtaxing its citizens, it can end or at least restrict its welfare programs, and it can reform its immigration policies.

Why are you wasting your time trying to tell the Church to stop wanting to help people when all the change you desire to see has to come from the State?

 

[WelperHelper99]

You have no idea what I want out of Christianity. But one thing I absolutely do not want it to do is to encourage my politicians to invite hoards of foreigners. I don't need them to have a role in removing them either, just stay out of it. If you believe in separation of church and state then act like it.

But if this is about "proper" Biblical beliefs, where in the Bible does God command his children to flood their nations with foreigners? If that's what I have to deal with as a Christian then surely you can tell me.

You want a white ethnostate. That went out the window when the gentiles were taught the word of Christ, and not just the Jews. Christianity has been for all since its inception. When settlers came to the new world, many Catholic, the first thing missionaries did was teach the natives of Christ and distribute bibles.

 

[Alexander Thaut]

Catholicism is a religion of love, compassion, forgiveness and charity. When you apply the teachings of Christ to the plight of refugees the logical conclusion is to help them and encourage others to help them too.

What it seems like you want is for the Church to compromise on it's morals because the State isn't doing it's part. In this situation it is the State that has the responsibility and the power. The Church wants to help people, the State has overtaxed its citizens so much that they are not donating to the Church as much as they used to. This means the Church does not have sufficient funding to help the people it wants to help in their own countries. Meanwhile the same State that overtaxes its citizens also provides welfare programs and welcomes foreigners in. Thus the most effective way for the Church to help people is by getting them into that State.

In other words the State has created the circumstances that resulted in this situation, and the Church is merely doing it's job within those circumstances. The State also has the power to change these circumstances. It can stop overtaxing its citizens, it can end or at least restrict its welfare programs, and it can reform its immigration policies.

Why are you wasting your time trying to tell the Church to stop wanting to help people when all the change you desire to see has to come from the State?

Yeah, I don't know what he wants. What good comes out of the Pope talking about hot-button culture war stuff in this way? Certainly not enough good to balance out the absolute shitshow that'd occur.

 

[French Dip]

Catholicism is a religion of love, compassion, forgiveness and charity. When you apply the teachings of Christ to the plight of refugees the logical conclusion is to help them and encourage others to help them too.

What it seems like you want is for the Church to compromise on it's morals because the State isn't doing it's part. In this situation it is the State that has the responsibility and the power. The Church wants to help people, the State has overtaxed its citizens so much that they are not donating to the Church as much as they used to. This means the Church does not have sufficient funding to help the people it wants to help in their own countries. Meanwhile the same State that overtaxes its citizens also provides welfare programs and welcomes foreigners in. Thus the most effective way for the Church to help people is by getting them into that State.

In other words the State has created the circumstances that resulted in this situation, and the Church is merely doing it's job within those circumstances. The State also has the power to change these circumstances. It can stop overtaxing its citizens, it can end or at least restrict its welfare programs, and it can reform its immigration policies.

Why are you wasting your time trying to tell the Church to stop wanting to help people when all the change you desire to see has to come from the State?

This post perfectly illustrates the problem with being so self assured. You think your Church is so perfect, so infallible, that you will make up this convoluted series of mental gymnastics to justify the damage it has done.

Did the Church reach out to help the girls of Rotherham? Is it sending money each pay period to the men who's wages have become depressed by the imported foreign workers? Does it care that entire towns full of christians are now muslim towns under de facto Sharia law? Will it raise a finger to stop the grenade attacks?

You are saying that the most effective way to help these foreigners is to import them, which hurts the natives. You are hurting Europeans to help foreigners. And in the process you are making it impossible for them to donate to the church. Do not pass this off on the state. I hold endless contempt for the corrupt state, but your Church is no better. You are shitting on my lawn, staring me in the face, and then telling me that the city officials need to clean it up.

It's an excuse. The entire Church has been trying to appease the leftists that hate you for decades now. You are sacrificing our children on the alter like the Aztecs, because you're terrified of being "racists." The propoganda has been going on for so long that you now actually believe that you have to do this in order to not be racist.

 

[French Dip]

You want a white ethnostate. That went out the window when the gentiles were taught the word of Christ, and not just the Jews. Christianity has been for all since its inception. When settlers came to the new world, many Catholic, the first thing missionaries did was teach the natives of Christ and distribute bibles.

Yes, Christianity is for all. My home is not. Stop conflating the two.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Yes, Christianity is for all. My home is not. Stop conflating the two.

You want something that no church of any denomination can provide. Christ accepts all of every stripe. Only the state can do as you wish.

 

[French Dip]

You want something that no church of any denomination can provide. Christ accepts all of every stripe. Only the state can do as you wish.

ALL I WANT IS FOR THE CHURCH TO FUCKING STOP!

The pope has been promoting mass immigration for years now! Massive Catholic NGOs aid illegals in entering my nation! How the fuck is this complicated? The state has to undo the damage YOUR CHURCH DID. But your Church is entirely capable of STAYING OUT OF IT!

Explain to me in detail how the Church is incapable of providing the service of "just fucking stopping."

 

[Preacher ✝]

this convoluted series of mental gymnastics to justify the damage it has done.

I am not sure what's so convoluted about a Church wanting to help people...

Massive Catholic NGOs aid illegals in entering my nation!

So let's address the elephant in the room here.

You keep pretending that the Catholic Church is somehow directly responsible for mass migration, when that simply is not the case. These Catholic NGOs you talk about have always maintained a distinction between people who are genuinely seeking asylum and those who are malicious bad actors taking advantage of the situation.

Here is an excerpt from a recent article on the matter.


The Church has no objection to you getting rid of the criminal element that you're complaining about, the concern is that you do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Explain to me in detail how the Church is incapable of providing the service of "just fucking stopping."

The same could be said about the State here. Church has an inherent mission and duty to help all people, but the State only has a duty to its citizens. Take the above example, the Church is morally obliged to speak out for those genuine refugees, but that does not mean the State has to listen.

Essentially what you're asking for is the Church to abandon its moral principles because the State is not doing it's job. What sense does that make?

 

[French Dip]

I am not sure what's so convoluted about a Church wanting to help people...


So let's address the elephant in the room here.

You keep pretending that the Catholic Church is somehow directly responsible for mass migration, when that simply is not the case. These Catholic NGOs you talk about have always maintained a distinction between people who are genuinely seeking asylum and those who are malicious bad actors taking advantage of the situation.

Here is an excerpt from a recent article on the matter.
View attachment 7269726

The Church has no objection to you getting rid of the criminal element that you're complaining about, the concern is that you do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.


The same could be said about the State here. Church has an inherent mission and duty to help all people, but the State only has a duty to its citizens. Take the above example, the Church is morally obliged to speak out for those genuine refugees, but that does not mean the State has to listen.

Essentially what you're asking for is the Church to abandon its moral principles because the State is not doing it's job. What sense does that make?

Yeah soooooo did the Church reach out to help the girls of Rotherham? Is it sending money each pay period to the men who's wages have become depressed by the imported foreign workers? Does it care that entire towns full of christians are now muslim towns under de facto Sharia law? Will it raise a finger to stop the grenade attacks?

Does your mandate to help people not apply to your own neighbors?

The NGOs make no distinction. That's a lie. They camp out in the desert on our boarder and give supplies and information to anyone that comes along. Please don't lie to me.

Most of these people are economic migrants. They're fighting age males, not refugees. Again, stop lying. And even if they were all women and children fleeing war, what you are doing will not help.

https://youtu.be/l6tSqGCfoCI

You are destroying the housing and labor markets of the people that fund your Church. If taxes dropped tomorrow it wouldn't help because the damage has already been done.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Like I said,
STOP FEEDING THE TROLL

 

[Local Farmer]

Like I said,
STOP FEEDING THE TROLL

Yeah at this point if we still have to explain Christian Doctrine like Mercy and Care for the poor (Matthew 25:36) then he might as well just go be a Muslim as that’s the only religion that unironically probably aligns with his current beliefs from what I’ve seen.

Everyone just put him on ignore, get your neg rates out if you must but you’re throwing pearls before swine. He doesn’t worship God, he worships himself. He rejects Jesus as the Messiah for the same reason that Jews did, so of course he is going to Reject the Bride of Christ, which is the universal Church.

Just pray for him that he may one day see the light

 

[sedoL]

Like I said,
STOP FEEDING THE TROLL

Holy reddit. Isn't this thread to discuss these sorts of things? Kind of weak to just dismiss them, especially since the questions are genuinely asked.

 

[Local Farmer]

Holy reddit. Isn't this thread to discuss these sorts of things? Kind of weak to just dismiss them, especially since the questions are genuinely asked.

Screeching about how the church is to blame for all the Immigration in the world while denying God’s infinite mercy are not questions me or anyone else in this thread are expected to take seriously

 

[Preacher ✝]

Church reach out to help the girls of Rotherham?

Yes, many prayers have been sent.

Is it sending money each pay period to the men who's wages have become depressed by the imported foreign workers?

This is another example of you expecting the Church to pick up the slack when the State has failed.

Does it care that entire towns full of christians are now muslim towns under de facto Sharia law?

Of course, but...

Will it raise a finger to stop the grenade attacks?

...how can it do anything about these kinds of things? The Church is not a military organization. We've already discussed why we don't do crusades anymore.

Does your mandate to help people not apply to your own neighbors?

Help is for everyone.

The NGOs make no distinction. That's a lie. They camp out in the desert on our boarder and give supplies and information to anyone that comes along. Please don't lie to me.

I showed you evidence to the contrary and you dismiss it out of hand. This is why people are accusing you of trolling.

You're clearly very upset and your argument is emotional.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

Holy reddit. Isn't this thread to discuss these sorts of things? Kind of weak to just dismiss them, especially since the questions are genuinely asked.

This thread is for discussing of Catholicim, mainly for Catholics. It's not a nazi fagboi politsperging thread about negroes.
If you want to beef with the retard, go to his profile or something, or go to 4chan.
Oh wait...

 

[French Dip]

Yes, many prayers have been sent.

This is another example of you expecting the Church to pick up the slack when the State has failed.

Of course, but...

...how can it do anything about these kinds of things? The Church is not a military organization. We've already discussed why we don't do crusades anymore.

Help is for everyone.

I showed you evidence to the contrary and you dismiss it out of hand. This is why people are accusing you of trolling.

You're clearly very upset and your argument is emotional.

Oh so you send prayers when white girls get rapped but supplies and aid when the rapists need help. Gotcha.

You and the state are both importing foreigners. No one is helping us. You are causing the problem and then washing your hands of it.

Help is clearly only for foreigners. You help foreigners, they hurt naitves, and you say that the state should be the one helping naitives.

You didn't show me any evidence at all!

You have a middle schooler's understanding of helping people. You only want to help the poor brown people, never your own.

Your own logic is flawed.

1. State increases taxes.
2. Donations go down.
3. Instead of helping your neighbors who are clearly hurting for money, you only think of helping foreigners.
4. You import foreigners because "helping them here is easier" (that's a lie, proven by the video I linked).
5. The imported foreigners increase rhe cheap labor pool, thus suppressing the wages of your neighbors.

So now native workers have higher taxes AND lower wages. Now they REALLY need help because of you. And you're thing them what? "Just vote harder next time?" Fuck you.

 

[sedoL]

The government in Italy is still functional enough to deport any retarded Muslim starting shit and they have some of the lowest numbers of mosques in Europe.

Last time I was in Italy, it was kind of a pity to look at. Rural places, with large buildings and what not were just abandoned (i went after the scamdemic), weeds growing everywhere, trash littered. I don't know, maybe that's just Italy, since they're a richer country, maybe they care less about such things, but still. The main thing was the resort we stayed at, one street is neat seaside resort with luxury hotels stretching for probably 10 km, street behind it is a favela. Again, maybe i'm just not Italian so don't understand it.

This was a bit of topic, but what I see in Catholicism a lot is the fervent need to discard or abandon your own in favor of those sweet sweet converts and then discard the converts once they also start asking too much or try to bring genuinely themselves to the church, fault and all. The shallowness of it all is just dissapointing. Also, the need to be "apolitical", when clearly the church is not and to an extreme degree, example being that several founders of my country were priests (not a fault!! Very proud)