Grace Lavery / Joseph Lavery & Daniel M. Lavery / Mallory Ortberg - "Straight with extra steps" couple trooning out to avoid "dwindling into mere heterosexuality"

[MirnaMinkoff]

do you guys seriously not know like a dozen evangelical raised millenial female virgins? mallory's sexuality looks to me like a standard result of this kind of upbringing, and if she hadn't become a minor celebrity she would have ended up like the kind of women I have a hard time believing none of you know - millenial female virgins who were so spooked by their upbringing that they just never managed to jump that particular fence. and the older they get the weirder it gets, so they just have a job and cats and a fandom.

No, not a single one, but I tended to avoid the serious church girls because I found them dreadfully boring snitches during my student years. In the adult world they seemed flock to corporate office jobs, dental hygiene and teaching so my interactions were very limited.

Mallory’s upbringing is pretty unique. If her parents had stayed in the Midwest this thread wouldn’t exist, but trying to be an evangelical pastor family in one of the wealthiest Bay Area liberal enclaves had to be a mindfuck. Genteel Christian “poverty” among the wealthy tech class seems like much richer fictional material to mine than 1960’s NYC women’s hotels that Mallory read about. If she had more originality and talent she might have been modern Bronte type of writer, but she settled for boring, generic, woke poonerhood with an heaping side of male humiliation.

 

[GenderCop]

Why isn't Mal obsessed with Gore Vidal? He's literary, he's lefty, he's bisexual, he wrote Myra Breckenridge? He seems like the kind of author Mal and Joe would reference all the time.

The word came down from Mount Sinai (lol, joke) way back in 2012:

Stop Eulogizing Gore Vidal--he was a racist and an elitist, forever mourning the decline of his era of aristocratic privilege. ​

Note the author is someone named Greenberg, and Gore hated the Commentary (Jewish neocon) crowd... and never tried to hide it.

From the article:

In the demonology of Vidal and his not-so-progressive Progressive forbears, Jews in particular loomed large. Vidal’s anti-Semitic rants frequently insinuated that Jews were un-American, more loyal to Israel than the United States. The most notorious of these pieces, “The Empire Lovers Strike Back,” ran in the The Nation on March 22, 1986, and achieved what many would have thought impossible: arousing sympathy for Norman Podhoretz and Midge Decter. It was the kind of piece that should give pause to those who ritually deny that anti-Zionism is rooted in anti-Semitism; it should be read in full. Describing the Podhoretzs as propagandists for Israel (“in its never-ending wars against just about everyone … a predatory people”), he cast Podhoretz, who was born in the United States, as someone who would never become “an ‘assimilated American,’ to use the old-fashioned terminology.” Addressing Decter, he declared, “I’ve got to tell you I don’t much like your country, which is Israel.”

Vidal was the 1st person I ever heard accuse Jews of loving Israel more than the USA and might even be credited with that meme.

They will never forgive him for that.

 

[Autistic Nonetheless]

Huh?

Its been a while (a looong, looong while) but if memory serves me right people like Andrea Dworkin, Susan Brownmiller and Germaine Greer all admired, but had serious reservations about , the sexual revolution as , in their opinion, hypersexuality served male desire more then female practicality.

And that in much the way most revolutions end up devouring their children, the victims of the sexual revolution were those women who wanted to participate in all the fun no strings attached sex but then found the emotional pressures, manipulation, need for love, occasional abortions, etc, etc as more pressing then their male counterparts. (they also point out the prevalence of rape, sexual control, and all such general nastiness that often companies easy sex . But that's all a separate issue)

That some people can have all the fun, guiltless sex they want while other's have an ideological commitment that they find difficult to sustain in practice.
I fear Mal in the latter position.

Why isn't Mal obsessed with Gore Vidal? He's literary, he's lefty, he's bisexual

was he bisexual?
I remember him writing (i think in Palimpsest) that he never tried anything with a woman.
Then again Gore also claimed to have never touched a penis and only ever fucked young men up the ass.

The Greeks would have considered him straight.

EDIT: Looking up the source i found this amusing anecdote from the christopher hitchens memoir.
hitchens was by that point not at all friendly with with Gore so this is likely somewhat exaggerated.

Spoiler: light smut ahead

Rugged young men recruited from the Via Veneto would be taken from the rear by Gore and then thrust, with any luck semi-erect, into the next-door room where Tom would suck them dry. It shows what few people understand even now, which is the variety of homosexual conduct. “I do not want a penis anywhere near me,” as Gore would put it in that terse and memorable way he had. Incidentally, this double act also emphasized another distinction: Tom adored to give pleasure while Gore has always liked to boast that he has never knowingly or intentionally gratified any of his partners. Not even a sighing reach-around by the sound of it.

 

[AMHOLIO]

I'd like to complement Joe for being the bigger cow but for being less interesting than Mallory to talk about, as the past 2 pages have all been Mal related speculation. No matter what genre of writing, from fiction to lolcow analysis, Joe Grace Lavery is sidelined for the star child of Mallory Ortberg. Sad!

 

[Potatis Salad]

Tard Baby took a train for twelve hours. Caption says:

TWELVE HOUR SUPERLINER TRAIN RIDE ON THE COAST STARLIGHT…NOTHING BEATS COFFEE AND EGGS ON A TRAIN MY FRIENDS…

Four hours after the train post, she posts again:

I love family

So Joe and Lily are back from NYC and have reunited with their nanny...but where? The Amtrak Coast Starlight serves the west coast, approximately between San Diego and Seattle. Starting from Oakland, twelve hours on the Coast Starlight only gets you into southern Oregon. EDIT: Oops, they are in Los Angeles. Tard Baby posted about it on the Chatner.

Spoiler: Chatner bullshit, not worth reading

Link | Archive of the snippet that is not paywalled
I’ll be in Los Angeles this weekend for the LA Times Festival of Books. If you’re in town and want to say hello, come by the USC campus this Sunday at 12:00 for a panel I’m on (tickets are $6.60). This is the last stop on the Women’s Hotel book tour until the Women’s Hotel sequel book tour starts up again in the fall, so it’s your last chance to hear me talk about old menu archives and the domestic fiction of Rachel Ferguson five whole months.

I’m taking a twelve-hour journey on the Coast Starlight train to get there, and I’m writing to you from the modest luxury of a Superliner roomette (That’s the mini-room where the bed folds up into the ceiling over the chairs). You never know when you book your ticket whether you’re going to get a seat on the ocean-facing side of the train, but today everything’s going my way, and the Pacific Ocean will be my travelling companion.
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch...8cf-c069-46c7-b739-a0d63bcc4b54_1968x1480.png

While we were waiting in the lounge, I did my usual pre-boarding routine and looked around to see if there were any older women who had a lot of carry-on bags. I adore receiving praise from older women, and am absolutely shameless about soliciting them in public. I found a likely candidate carrying six or seven tote bags and a suitcase, wearing a denim baseball cap covered with rhinestones — exactly the kind my second-favorite grandmother might have worn — and was rewarded with immediate acceptance.

It’s a favorite pastime of mine, along with ostentatiously giving up my seat on the subway, because it requires very little effort but generates an immediate and outsized amount of goodwill that irradiates the next few hours with a sense of buoyancy and welcome usefulness.

The train pulled slowly into the station. We saw a little baby looking solemnly out of a bedroom window in the sleeping car, as his mother held him up to examine the situation. A fellow a few spots further ahead in line, dressed for a backpacking trip, recognized a group of his friends already on board and waving at him, and he broke into smiles and waved back.

As my new friend and I boarded together, she asked the station agent whether she could get a seat on the first floor, rather than the second, and when this proved successful she asked if she could have a window seat on the ocean side:

“You want a seat downstairs? And facing the ocean? Ma’am, this train started last night out of Seattle — everybody wants to sit on the ocean side. You’re asking me for a lot.”

“I know,” she said, smiling, “I just thought I would ask.”

“All right,” said the agent, “you’re lucky you talked to me today. I’ve got one for you. You’re lucky,” and they vanished, happily and begrudgingly both at once, into the next car.

Side note, I often go into the page source on Instagram to download the full-size images for your zooming pleasure, like so:


I've never thought Joe was a pedo, he's just a repulsive narcissistic abuser who uses his troon armor as an excuse to be overly sexual in any/all situations...but I couldn't help noticing this in the html when I was downloading the above pic. I can only conclude that it's a new AI-enabled image analysis tool in Instagram!! And whaddaya know, it has detected an anomaly in the photo!!!!!!!!!


Very plausible!


Meanwhile, over on Joe's Instagram, he's drumming up some serious excitement for the hot fart he's slated to release in a few months:

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

Tard Baby took a train for twelve hours. The Amtrak Coast Starlight goes from San Diego to Seattle. Caption says:

View attachment 7272824

Four hours later, she's posting:

View attachment 7272828
So Joe and Lily are back from NYC and are...where? Twelve hours on the Coast Starlight, starting from Oakland, only gets you into southern Oregon.

Side note, I often go into the page source on Instagram to download the full-size images for your zooming pleasure, like so:
View attachment 7272821

I've never thought Joe was a pedo, he's just a repulsive narcissistic abuser who uses his troon armor as an excuse to be overly sexual in any/all situations...but I couldn't help noticing this in the html. This must be a new AI-enabled image analysis tool in Instagram!! And whaddaya know, it has detected an anomaly in the photo!!!!!!!!!
View attachment 7272863

Very plausible!
View attachment 7272826

Meanwhile, over on Joe's Instagram, he's drumming up some serious excitement for the hot fart he's slated to release in a few months:
View attachment 7272827View attachment 7272818

Are they in some kind of medical office?



Diplomas or licenses on the wall, looks like possibly a caution/warning sign in multiple languages over the trash can, some kind of indoor curtain to the right...

 

[Anasa Tristis]

Are they in some kind of medical office?

View attachment 7273003

Diplomas or licenses on the wall, looks like possibly a caution/warning sign in multiple languages over the trash can, some kind of indoor curtain to the right...

It sure looks clinical. Are those blue scrubs hanging on the door there too? Is that an orderly in green scrubs? There’s an odd vibe to the photo. Lala’s smile simply stops. Sideshow has a million miles away look in his eyes.

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

It sure looks clinical. Are those blue scrubs hanging on the door there too? Is that an orderly in green scrubs? There’s an odd vibe to the photo. Lala’s smile simply stops. Sideshow has a million miles away look in his eyes.

Yeah some sort of employee in green scrubs and maybe a face covering (too blurred to say). Some kind of pole standing in the entryway- maybe not an IV pole, but could be, something similar. A bottle of disinfectant, too.

Doesn't look posh enough to be an LA "medical spa." Wonder what they are up to? Banking more sperm? SRS consultation?

 

[Diana Moon Glampers]

Maybe they're attempting to make another baby. They were real coy about that last time until the pregnancy was pretty far along, but couldn't resist a few little hints here and there.

 

[monstrous bubo]

Raised Catholic, with Catholic school education (elementary): Getting every single solitary tard scribble seared/lasered off and not getting any new ones.

Awww, even the Mormons let you get tats now. Sucks cause Catholic imagery would make great tattoos - all those skulls!

You can have tattoos, but they shouldn’t be contrary to the Christian message. Source: am a practising Catholic.

Maybe they're attempting to make another baby.

Maybe. Or maybe they took Bobby Joe to a clinic because he was poorly. But another baby is the funnier idea, so let’s go with that. Their housing situation currently is a tiny shack in California, and a small house in Michigan. Another kid means in the next few years they’ll need a bigger place. With the constant travel, dreams of Brooklyn and Joe’s wardrobe, money will be even tighter. Tard Baby better brush up that CV because there’s hard work in her future.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Maybe they're attempting to make another baby. They were real coy about that last time until the pregnancy was pretty far along, but couldn't resist a few little hints here and there.

That’s not nearly posh looking enough for a IVF or fertility clinic in CA. Looks more like be a free trans healthcare center, but I’d expect more obvious propaganda and flags. Id also expect more bright colors and cartoon graphics if it was a clinic for for the Bobby Joe set. Maybe Joe’s gout is just flaring up.

 

[Trianon]

Jane Erye was an orphan (with boundless humility, generosity, and a strong moral code) who returned to her wounded hero after after he was nearly killed by the mad wife shut away in the attic. (LOL. Which one will Mal end up being in the end? Jane or the insane jilted wife who attempts to burn everything down?)

Another parallel is that Jane leaves Rochester upon discovery of the wife because she cannot bend her principles to be with him. In this case, Mal turned on her family and cast herself out like Jane, which reinforced the self-image of her as a strong, uncompromising person buffeted by betrayal. She ended up with the sad-sack, controlling St. John and billed him as the real Rochester.

Meanwhile, over on Joe's Instagram, he's drumming up some serious excitement for the hot fart he's slated to release in a few months:

"What of Ziz?" Is he writing about the Zizian cult? Oh my.

 

[Autistic Nonetheless]

"What of Ziz?" Is he writing about the Zizian cult? Oh my.

He's been desperate to stay up to date. That sitcom book is a borderline breadtube essay.

Funny how this was a completely different thing only a year ago. it's a little hard to tell considering how Joe threatens you with a new book if you as much as sneezed in his direction (who remembers the multiple novels, trolley problem monograph and child rape books he's been wanting to write [*] ) but i think it's originally based on this talk: Political Demonology: Against the Theory of Sexuality [*].

The one constant throughout his recent rantings has been that instance that both gender and sex are, what else, social contracts, and the need for a new post gender ideology, since being straight is an impossibility and universal transsexualism is the only true position out there.


I'd be curious to see if his takes his new antagonism towards the gay rights movent anywhere interesting, But not enough to read this shit.

 

[lecher]

Meanwhile, over on Joe's Instagram, he's drumming up some serious excitement for the hot fart he's slated to release in a few months:

Joe's "Introduction: Liberalism and Demonology" is probably cribbed wholesale from a book by Adam Kotsko, "Neoliberalism's Demons".

 

[Bookwork]

From the jumpy TIXR page, I see her $6.60 panel is moderated by Rax Will, "a James Beard Foundation nominated writer living in Los Angeles and writing a book about queer food" (link). We may have found Mal's path into expectoration publishing.

"His story on gender-affirming hospitality was a 2023 James Beard Foundation Journalism Award semifinalist. He has written for the Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Eater, Punch, and more" (link).

Also on the panel are Zee Carlstrom (Make Sure You Die Screaming; Good Reads) to the left below, and Emily St. James (Woodworking; Good Reads).

Respectfully, I disagree about the Chatner. It offers these two bits that I found amusing and nauseating at the same time, just like Joe's cooking:

• "I adore receiving praise from older women, and am absolutely shameless about soliciting them in public."
• "It’s a favorite pastime of mine, along with ostentatiously giving up my seat on the subway, because it requires very little effort but generates an immediate and outsized amount of goodwill that irradiates the next few hours with a sense of buoyancy and welcome usefulness."

This is the clinical waste sign over the trash can:

Haven't been able to make the other items on the wall decypherable.

I'd guess LaLa and MaMa always planned to meet DaDa in LA, and one of them had a sickie worth popping into a clinic about. For troonish things and babymaking the Bay Area would seem to be the better locus in quo.

 

[Zemblan Physics]

You can see the storefront in Joe’s huge-ass ugly glasses, but it didn’t really give me any clues, other than that it definitely looks like some kind of free or public health clinic. Maybe someone else has laser vision and can deduce the deets?

 

[Larry David's Opera Cape]

You can see the storefront in Joe’s huge-ass ugly glasses, but it didn’t really give me any clues, other than that it definitely looks like some kind of free or public health clinic. Maybe someone else has laser vision and can deduce the deets?

It has big street-facing windows and a glass door. Could be one of the many urgent care chains that exist in the USA- some of those are in small urban storefronts or strip malls on busy roads.

 

[Dromedary]

@GenderCop- I can't quote you directly for some reason.

Stop Eulogizing Gore Vidal--he was a racist and an elitist, forever mourning the decline of his era of aristocratic privilege. ​

And that's why Gore was AWESOME. He was a total, utter American aristo snob, and I wouldn't want it any other way. Super brave of him to publish a gay novel in 1948, erudite commentator for decades after. I wouldn't want Mallory to get her paws anywhere near Gore as a subject, because she's too stupid and unworldly and unlearned to understand him, the world he came from and lived in. Gore would have thought she was a monstrosity, a fake simulacrum of a man. He wrote Myra Breckinridge (trans comedy) as a farce. And, he was just gay. Not bisexual. He told a lot of tall tales, like being "bisexual" and fucking Marlon Brando in the ass, Never happened. But he was a tremendously astute observer of the American scene for 50+ years, he's a real revelation when you're young. In my 20s I devoured his 1,200 page compendium United States. He was a brilliant literary critic as well. And yes, he was feisty about what he called the "new class", by which he meant ambitious Jews overthrowing WASPs by the late 60s in basically all fields. He did it subtly though.
He was a total elitist snob but also went on Johnny Carson frequently to share his snobby opinions with the masses. Absolutely one of a kind. I would never want to read what Tard Baby has to say about him, she has no authority to say anything about him.

 

[Autistic Nonetheless]

I love Gore. That he is somehow kept off the list as one of the great American stylists when much more pedestrian writers like Roth and Steinbeck are basically deified is an unforgivable sin.

And i agree with @Dromedary. Bravery is largely a product of circumstance. To have been openly gay, unreligious and brashfuly opinionated during the early 60's was a tremendous act. To do the same today means nothing at all. That he brought it off with charm and a humor that is still remembered in ( especially in) conservative circles is even more impressive.

Perhaps this shows im not serious but Burr and Lincoln and the early essays taught me more about American history then any school assigned book.

The less said about the end the better.
He descended into alcoholism (largely due to personal and professional disappointments) and then took a dive into full blown dementia, where tragically he had almost nobody who could even tell him to stop (not that he would have listened). I remember an interview he gave around the time of Calvino's death where he couldn't even remember that the man was Italian. That the press kept giving him interviews was borderline elder abuse and a very sad coda to a brilliant life.

One of the writers i'd most love to have around in current year.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

I’m part of the Gore Vidal fan club too.

Reading Myra Breckenridge as a teen was a revelation, but while reading it I realized this was same author who’s name I had seen on the spines of serious books in my father’s library for years. (Lincoln and 1876 in particular) This absolutely blew my mind at the time and made me realize adults could be far more multi-faceted than I had ever imagined.