Sperg about comic books here

[Stab You in the Back]

I was a huge fan of this run when it came out, so I decide to pick up the trade. The art here is top notch. Damion Scott owns this character. His art is smooth and flowing in a way that compliments Batgirl's powerset. Yes, its very early 2000s anime-inspired, but not obnoxiously so. The writing is.. meh. Issues don't really flow into one another. Stories feel half-finished. There are a lot of stories that just end without any resolution. Batgirl can sometimes be a little contradictory in her characterization, and you can tell the writer struggled with depicting a mostly mute character's thought-process.

Batman appears frequently as he tries to mentor and oversee Batgirl. Batgirl mostly just ignores him and does her own thing with (sometimes literally) suicidal recklessness. This is also the era where Oracle ran support for Batman and the Batman-adjacent heroes. I do like this version of Barbara as a natural progression of her character following The Killing Joke. She, like Batman, is trying to protect Batgirl from her own impulsiveness.. with even less success.

The stories in this trade tend to be simple one-offs that deal with Batgirl learning to be a hero. A lot of them are shaggy dog stories. For example, in one issue Batgirl protects this guy from an assassination attempt. He thanks her for saving his life and leaves. Next issue we learn he was killed shortly after, and Batgirl has to deal with her rage and frustration at the seemingly pointlessness of being a hero.

The main story arc in this trade involves Lady Shiva. Batgirl makes a deal with Shiva to fight her to the death in one year, and then spends the whole year training for their fight. They then meet up and fight a year later in issue #25. Then the next couple of issues are the fallout of that fight. Without giving away any spoilers, the whole Shiva/Batgirl thing is a huge asspull. But whatever, its fun.

Overall, I really enjoyed this trip down memory lane. Cassie Batgirl is a great character in this run. I'd recommend this book to anyone.

Rating: 9/10

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Cassie Batgirl is a great character in this run. I'd recommend this book to anyone.

Have you been reading her current run?

 

[Stab You in the Back]

Have you been reading her current run?

Like I said, I think Scott's art is a big component of what makes her series work. The art in the recent run didn't impress me, so I haven't actually sat down and read it yet. I might give it a try if people have good things to say about it.

 

[Nick Obre]

I liked both, but Rider coming back to earth and seeing what's happened just disappointing him happened twice. Hell, didn't he pop up on Earth in the aftermath of both Civil War events? That was kinda weird.

But the "you don't have to pay" Bar scene was kino. I loved the chant of "He stood when no one else could". To the rest of the aliens, Richard Rider's probably one of the only humans they can name.

It was beautiful and then we had AL Ewing trying to set up weird shit in his GoTG series and I'm not sure where that was heading.

Ewing's GOTG was indeed weird, but he really seems to like Rich. He featured him a lot in his Mars X-Men books during Krakoa, and he was often the one holding the line during a crisis, and beating himself up about it.
It's all up to me, it's all up to me.

 

[Mayor Cody Travers]

It's funny when you see that early X-Men page where they're practically celebrities.

I think the Ultimate verse set up kind of worked. People love the Ultimates because they're volunteers who gained powers and are answerable to the government. But people hate the X-Men because anyone can be a mutant, and there are a lot of evil mutants who can do a lot of damage with their powers, and the X-Men answer to no one. Adding in that Spider-Man is mistrusted because people think he's a mutant worked too.

I liked that set up for Ultimate too. The FF became the US Army's answer to SHIELD's Ultimates, I remember that in specific. Didn't the X-Men agree to report to Nick Fury as well after the volume 6 collection while under Professor X's autonomy? That could've worked for setting up a coon situation/"us versus them" aspect of the now-liked X-Men versus normal or actually-marginalized muties but they never quite explored that.

For 616.... I understand that Thing despite his monstrous image was beloved due to being in the FF and the Avengers too were obviously fully liked outside governmental drama. I'm actually pretty good with the same Ultimate-style "they're the beautiful ones" aspect for the X-Men as well versus understandable dislike for Shitster, the Mutant With the Uncontrollable Anus. In-universe, Spidey and Hulk both saving the day solo or joining up with the FF/Avengers makes them just as liked by the public (and reflecting meta real world popularity), with initial distrust/hate becoming reserved to old fogey institutionalists like JJJ with the Bugle or Thunderbolt Ross with the US Army, using their power within it to still force action against the two in an obvious-to-everyone personal vendetta now.

 

[A Grey Cat]

F4 has always been well regarded.

Reed Richard's may be a genuine sometimes a moron other times, but I think it's been established one of the first things he did after the FF got super powers was to set up a good pr and public liaison to get the FF in good standing with the public.


Tony stark always had the excuse of "that iron man guy? Yeah he's one of robots/he's some guy I hired to test these armored suits and be my bodyguard." Before he went public with the iron man alter ego. Either way his tech company stark industries coupled with his reputation as a rich playboy helped his pr and image.


But I agree maybe if the x guys weren't responsible for like...60% of the times there's an earth ending disaster everyone else has to clean maybe mutant human public opinions wouldn't be so rocky?

 

[Tor Lugosi]

I liked the original Cassie Cain Batgirl run. My interest in it dropped around the time of her getting a crush on Superboy. I think they also killed off Spoiler for a while after that, which doubly killed my interest. One of the things I remember really disliking, though, is the lazy way they 'fix' Cassie's inability to speak -- a mutant dude just happening to have the power to do that touches her and thus fixes her brain. Admittedly, it did have some consequences (fucked up her ability to 'read' body language, which is what made her such a good fighter) but I think they quickly resolved it.

Also, I think in the nu52 universe Shiva is no longer her mother, but instead some new donut steel OC called 'Mother' is. iirc, it was all done by the hack faggot James Tynion IV, whose work I refuse to ever bother with.

EDIT: And speaking of Spoiler and Batgirl, I haven't read the entirety of it, but the few issues I did read I liked the Batgirl run staring Stephanie Brown as Batgirl. Bought the TPBs that collected the entirety of the small run a while back but still haven't ever read them.

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

Ewing's GOTG was indeed weird, but he really seems to like Rich. He featured him a lot in his Mars X-Men books during Krakoa, and he was often the one holding the line during a crisis, and beating himself up about it.
It's all up to me, it's all up to me.

man's a traumatized superhero that went from being the eternal "potential big timer" to being a cosmic heavyweight with the accompanying feats.

I like Rich and think his C-list status often saves him from stupid bullshit and lets writers tell good tales. After he returned to Earth, he stopped to see Speedball post-Civil War and told Iron Man he was fucking retarded for letting things turn out that badly.

Then we had that weird mess with Darkhawk's stuff and I don't think we ever got to see Rich's brother see his plotline to the end. You know, the whole becoming a Darkhawk thing.

Hell, I'm surprised we never got Darkhawk's stuff straightened out after Marvel nuked their cosmic stuff after Annihilation: Conquest/War of Kings. Maybe Hickman will get a chance to play with the cosmic sandbox soonish.

 

[Humble Architect]

You guys hear Hickman is heading a Cosmic relaunch?

Looks like even the editorial knows the current Hulk sucks and it’s time for a refresh.

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

You guys hear Hickman is heading a Cosmic relaunch?
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Looks like even the editorial knows the current Hulk sucks and it’s time for a refresh.

Please let Hickman finish his vision on something he's given. It feels like he's been rugpulled twice by Marvel at this point.

 

[Humble Architect]

Please let Hickman finish his vision on something he's given. It feels like he's been rugpulled twice by Marvel at this point.

You just know the second he’s pulled off Ultimate Spider-Man that the wolves will tear it apart. The “Ultimate Paul” will become reality.

That being said, I’d like him to bring some of that magic of his to the good Doctor Banner, because holy fuck is PKJ a dickless retard who needs to be ran out, it’s everything wrong with his Superman, amplified. So Bruce, Jen and chink seemingly reforming the Hulk family and going to space is a step up.

I’ve thought for years that Hulk should’ve stayed a cosmic character for awhile after Planet Hulk, becoming a God-King and conquering everything in his way, breaking chains and leading his own Great Crusade. Then he slows down and starts to want to be a king and that’s why Miek does his thing, because the idea of the wars stopping is the last thing he wants.

That would’ve made Nova’s talk with Iron Man all the better.

“Fired Hulk into space huh? Here’s some pics from his empire, I hear it’s actually a nice place to live. Plus he killed a lot of tyrannical bastards while he was at it. Looks like even Hulk understands the hero-thing better than you do.”

It would’ve made his wrath in World War all the more justified if he actually was with his family and adopted world longer.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

You just know the second he’s pulled off Ultimate Spider-Man that the wolves will tear it apart. The “Ultimate Paul” will become reality.

I just hope he is on USM for at least 5 years. I also get the feeling that at somepoint in USM or another of the Ultimate books, there will be a pregancy storyline just to use the real time release thing.

If it happens in USM, I think its either going to be Peter and MJ having another kid or less likely right now Richard and Black Cat.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

This neat little relic popped up on eBay. Artist draws some kind of danger room scenario featuring Black Canary.

At some point, it looks like editorial stepped in and told him to change the middle panel because it was too sexual. He tells editorial they're ruining the page.

I guess they do send him the page because somehow it ended up on eBay. Anyway, here's the actual page from the comic.

Kinda looks like she's sliding now rather than rolling over to avoid the robot. The original is definitely better, but to be honest the shitty DIGITAL COLORING is doing his art no fucking favors.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Kinda looks like she's sliding now rather than rolling over to avoid the robot. The original is definitely better, but to be honest the shitty DIGITAL COLORING is doing his art no fucking favors.

This was when they were still figuring out digital coloring

 

[Scarlett Johansson]

I never understood why they decided Hulk in Space was a thing that needed to happen....

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

I never understood why they decided Hulk in Space was a thing that needed to happen....

I think it works out because by the time they did that, they pretty much had spent 40 or so years exploring Hulk on Earth and concluded there's not much more they could milk out of it without retreading old ground. You had multiple instances of Hulk being publicly recognized as a hero. You also had shit like Peter David's run.

At this point, I recall Betty Ross being dead and I think Hulk's main villains were dead or in limbo. He'd also just went on a rampage.

Anyways Planet Hulk was fun sword and planet shit with Hulk. The end of it was also pretty good and I do like World War Hulk. It's a guilty pleasure. Yes, it's flawed. But I think it had quite a lot of genuinely cool moments and concepts. Hell, I even liked how they had to contrive a realistic reason for Dr. Strange to be defeated and it winds up linking with the idea that the Illuminati make questionable choices because they think it's right.

The X-Men tie-in was also pretty good. Showing dozens of X-Men brawling with Hulk as he beats the shit out of almost all of them, bending Colossus, smacking Wolverine, forcing Cain Marko to return to being Juggernaut, and seeing the corny but still pretty chilling line that Hulk says to Xavier at the end. Pure capeshit kino. Nothing too serious. Just good action, characterization, dramatic moments, and strings together the themes of costly decisions and fuckups that those with great power seem to have here. The whole deal with some Avengers Academy student stealing one of Tony Stark's superpower negation/shutoff devices AND Tony picking up the same dud was some fun stuff.

I was, however, a little surprised that Hulk managed to just brutally KO Wonder Man given his entire schtick is that he's almost unkillable. There was also the Champions-ish lineup with Hercules and some others popping up to try and be on Hulk's side as consciously as they could, then there was the dope Ghost Rider tie-in that was flawed because it went with the logic of "Hulk's not really guilty of anything the Rider would punish him for" which is horseshit.

But, I do miss the effort and planning that comics used to put into fun event stories like this. The Civil War era feels like the last time we were allowed to see the heroes be flawed. Tony, Reed, and so many others were just flawed heroes. I liked the idea that so many of them were flawed. Civil War II tried to show this idea, but fucked it up in execution. The one thing I think they got right was Carol Danvers' sheer arrogance but failed to really do any character work worth remembering.

 

[Gunslinger Spawn]

I just sigh whenever I see Hulk in a crossover issue. Couldn't stand any of his popular solo stories besides Planet Hulk and even that was short lived. Smash smash gets old after awhile. He is just boring as a character.

 

[GloryHole Stalker]

I never understood why they decided Hulk in Space was a thing that needed to happen....

My quickie Hulk history...I was a Hulk collector from 85 to roughly 2010. When they made all of the Hulk's supporting cast Gamma powered heroes/villans, I finally fucked off.

The most solid run in the Hulk's history is.... well, after the early 80s, nothing really. Stan Lee couldn't figure the fucker out, so his first book was axed after 6 issues. Several years later, they finally gave Hulk back his own book, and from the late 60s through roughly the early 80s he was pretty much the same type of character (Hulk Smash!) An angry toddler with unlimited strength. Mantlo ran out of ideas for Big Green by 85, but was the one who laid the seeds for David's run a few years later. Byrne tried to bring the Hulk "back to basics", but was kicked off/left the title after about 6/7 issues. Then came Peter David's run, Joe Fixit, then Professor Hulk (A green, smartassed superman) then shit. Some floundering after that, then a guy named Jones picked up the title and it started out interesting, treating the Hulk like some X-Files/Bigfoot type of character. That, like all post 80s Hulk runs turned to shit pretty quickly.

Then, after more floundering, along came Planet Hulk, a rehashed Conan saga. OK, but nothing spectacular. Considering what had come recently before, though, made it look more interesting than it really was. World War Hulk was a good concept, but was pretty meh in terms of execution. They should have built it up more beforehand, at the very least. Then comes Every Fucking Member Of The Hulk Cast Being Hulks Or Abominations. Fuck all that. And it seems that since the new default "reset" for the character is the Planet Hulk version, no one else has done shit worth reading since.

Maybe Byrne should have left well enough alone back in '85 and just let the character slowly disappear, lol.

 

[Old King Koaleamos]

My quickie Hulk history...I was a Hulk collector from 85 to roughly 2010. When they made all of the Hulk's supporting cast Gamma powered heroes/villans, I finally fucked off.

The most solid run in the Hulk's history is.... well, after the early 80s, nothing really. Stan Lee couldn't figure the fucker out, so his first book was axed after 6 issues. Several years later, they finally gave Hulk back his own book, and from the late 60s through roughly the early 80s he was pretty much the same type of character (Hulk Smash!) An angry toddler with unlimited strength. Mantlo ran out of ideas for Big Green by 85, but was the one who laid the seeds for David's run a few years later. Byrne tried to bring the Hulk "back to basics", but was kicked off/left the title after about 6/7 issues. Then came Peter David's run, Joe Fixit, then Professor Hulk (A green, smartassed superman) then shit. Some floundering after that, then a guy named Jones picked up the title and it started out interesting, treating the Hulk like some X-Files/Bigfoot type of character. That, like all post 80s Hulk runs turned to shit pretty quickly.

Then, after more floundering, along came Planet Hulk, a rehashed Conan saga. OK, but nothing spectacular. Considering what had come recently before, though, made it look more interesting than it really was. World War Hulk was a good concept, but was pretty meh in terms of execution. They should have built it up more beforehand, at the very least. Then comes Every Fucking Member Of The Hulk Cast Being Hulks Or Abominations. Fuck all that. And it seems that since the new default "reset" for the character is the Planet Hulk version, no one else has done shit worth reading since.

Maybe Byrne should have left well enough alone back in '85 and just let the character slowly disappear, lol.

I feel like most of the post-David runs that get notable usually ape plenty of elements from David's run. Like, the AL Ewing Immortal Hulk run took a lot of influence from Peter David. I think the current Hulk run apparently goes further into the idea of Hulk as a horror character too?

 

[Humble Architect]

I never understood why they decided Hulk in Space was a thing that needed to happen....

He’s kinda like Supes in that you can drop him into anything and with a bit of creativity, it’ll work.

There’s no support stuff you gotta worry about, no Batcave, no buildings to web onto, no battery to recharge, no commanding officers or any of that. Hell, even his supporting cast can go years or even decades inbetween appearances.