Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[LORD IMPERATOR]

*Some elements to be canon
Filoni's Clone Wars also had Bane. And that series is still canon under Disney, but the actual books from Karpyshyn aren't. It's a bit silly to try to argue for a canon across decades and tons of mediums, writers and two owners.

Depends. Gilroy and Filoni see certain parts of the SWEU as still canon in their eyes, even if they're not official Disney canon.

Especially when Lucas himself didn't consider it all canon.

Actually, he did. His statement of two "parallel worlds" was production-wise; he still made the SWEU canon through the Prequels and how many elements it took from the SWEU. The PT was shot with the intention that the SWEU was canon.

That also goes with comparing Filoni to Gilroy. Gilroy mentioned a few times checking other stuff and even Wookiepedia to confirm his lore, meanwhile Filoni just writes what he likes.

True, true. That's why Gilroy is the better author of the two.

Hell, I'd say it's about on par with generic IRL dictatorship shenanigans. More people probably got merked at Tiananmen Square or when Assad Sr. laid waste to Hama.

Exactly. It's just another Friday morning for the Imps. Acting like this is some kind of unforgivable sin kind of forgets the fact that the Mandalorians also did the same thing on that planet where they met Lux Bonterri and Ahsoka Tano, and they blowtorched a village because they could.

Hey, at least the Empire had a legit reason to want to take Ghorman and get the snobby Ghor out of the way. Pre Vizsla and Bo-Katan butchered a village for no reason other than their chieftain asked the Mandalorians to honor their word.

Should've been the original EU Ghorman Massacre with Tarkin deciding to use them as a landing pad, though that apparently still happened offscreen in Disney canon before.

The fact that it's still canon means they should've shown it. It should've been a flashback scene at the first episode, then cut to Mon Mothma complaining about it in the Senate.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

I've seen weird reactions to that online, Tiananmen was between 300 and 2.6k dead yet China is doing well. Meanwhile I've seen people online say that 500 dead from a Ghorman riot should have garnered a bigger rebel/republican response. Funny enough, I do agree that an officer choosing to land on innocent civilians has a bigger thematic effect than shooting rioters. Though that's less realistic, so it fits way less with Gilroy's style.

I liked how they referenced the older Ghorman thing with Tarkin but the actual massacre is rather lack luster

 

[BullfrogBill]

Actually, he did. His statement of two "parallel worlds" was production-wise; he still made the SWEU canon through the Prequels and how many elements it took from the SWEU. The PT was shot with the intention that the SWEU was canon.

Not really, George Lucas hated the EU with a passion and has wanted it dismantled since the start because he felt most writers didn't understand how to write Star Wars and lots of the decisions made by EU writers ruined George's vision of the sequel trilogy. But the EU made money and fans liked it so he threw the fans a bone and included some EU easter eggs throughout the prequels, specifically the stuff that Lucas liked though, and he really didn't like much in the EU at all. George Lucas never read any of the EU novels and he only read the comics because he believed that comics as an artform were closer to movies so he was mostly ignoring the novels unless they got a comic adaptation, the writer wanted to speak to Lucas for help (like most of the prequel era books), or he just heard something about them through the grape vine.

The biggest easter egg is obviously Aayla Secura who first appeared in the Star Wars Republic comic and George Lucas has a thing for hot twi'leks so he put her in AotC, George had also intended to use Darth Talon in the sequel trilogy as well simply because he liked the way she looked aka he had the hots for her like he did Aayla. Some of the "easter eggs" aren't really fair to call easter eggs to the EU though, like people say Coruscant is is an EU easter egg because it first appeared in the EU but George Lucas still created Coruscant himself since the very beginning, it just wasn't in the og trilogy because he wasn't sure if he could pull of Coruscant on the big screen at the time. If anything the EU novels that mentioned Coruscant before Phantom Menace came out were easter eggs to George Lucas, not the other way around. There's many examples of this too. Like Darth Bane, that was an idea George Lucas had written for background on the sith during Phantom Menace, he's mentioned in the book but not the movie but it was something George came up with and EU writers borrowed it for books despite most people thinking that Darth Bane is an EU creation through and through.

Disney gets a bad reputation for cancelling the EU but I believe it was actually George Lucas' decision to cancel the EU to make room for his sequel plans that were ruined by Rian Johnson. Dave Filoni even stated way back in the day before Disney had Star Wars and the EU was still alive something to the effect of "the EU is fake Star Wars and George agrees with me, what we are doing with Clone Wars is the real Star Wars". I believe Lucas was going to dismantle the EU in preparation for the sequel trilogy whether Disney bought Star Wars or not.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

George Lucas hated the EU with a passion

That's not really true though

The name Coruscant was coined by the EU and Lucas didn't see the point in changing it

 

[BullfrogBill]

That's not really true though

The name Coruscant was coined by the EU and Lucas didn't see the point in changing it

Like I said in my post, Coruscant was created by George Lucas since the beginning. Even throwing the fans a bone with certain easter eggs and references doesn't change the fact that George Lucas had massive problems with the EU. He despised the Old Republic and he believed there was never a giant sith and jedi army at war (I'd be interested to know what George Lucas imagines happened before the films though if not a sith and jedi war since the films mention the sith's "oppression" of the galaxy in the past), George infamously despised Mara Jade and in his mind she never existed, he despised lots of the bantam era novels, he despised the Marvel comics, and he really despised the NJO era of books and beyond. He just hated most of the Expanded Universe. Sure there was some stuff he liked and he would reference some of that stuff because the fans loved it.

I can't find any scans of the Starlog magazine with George's interview but he was quoted as saying this about the Expanded Universe sometime in the 2005

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."

George would throw the EU a bone now and then but he generally disliked the stories they told and the directions they went, I remember another interview with Sue Rostoni (head editor and keeper of EU Lore for Lucas Licensing said they wouldn't tell George Lucas about certain plans they had in the books because they knew George would shoot them down such as Luke getting married and having his son Ben Skywalker. She stated that these were kept secret from George because they knew he would hate it but that it was the direction they wanted to go with the story so they did it despite what George thought of it. What he didn't know couldn't hurt him kind of thing.

 

[Fig Kommandant]

Actually, he did. His statement of two "parallel worlds" was production-wise; he still made the SWEU canon through the Prequels and how many elements it took from the SWEU. The PT was shot with the intention that the SWEU was canon.

Wasn't there a tier of canon, like gold canon (the movies), silver canon (clone wars), and so on with small comic books being the least canon, almost "what if" stories?

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

Lucas didn't hate the EU. Frankly I don't think he really cared

 

[Vining]

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

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I like this better

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

because coomers coomed over her for years when the character was jailbait. and still do. no not over old rosario dawson ahsoka, they're still obsessed with and gooning over jailbait ahsoka and always will be. it didnt hurt that the character also wasn't generic in The Clone Wars movie and series but that got overshadowed by her being jailbait. adult ahsoka shows up and is the most generic jedi character ever. look at all the other force-sensitive characters over all the movies and TV shows, none of them fit the stale stoic bland stereotype as much as she does. they all get to have personalities but adult ahsoka doesnt

...And she was a good friend.

 

[draggs]

...And she was a good friend.

To every slaver, smuggler, and member of the 501st

I think George liked the EU initially but as it grew he thought it was encroaching on his vision for a sequel trilogy and his vision of Star Wars in general and he didn't like that at all. The whole Mara Jade thing, aside from him not liking Jedi having anything to do with anything sexual, I think he thought the EU was trying to upstage HIS feisty girlboss character, Leia, with Mara Jade, and he also didn't like that at all

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

I think George liked the EU initially but as it grew he thought it was encroaching on his vision for a sequel trilogy and his vision of Star Wars in general and he didn't like that at all. The whole Mara Jade thing, aside from him not liking Jedi having anything to do with anything sexual, I think he thought the EU was trying to upstage HIS feisty girlboss character, Leia, with Mara Jade, and he also didn't like that at all

I still don't think he really felt any strong emotions over the EU.

So seen as Andor is coming to an end let's try guess the fate of the characters that remain from the show that most people will forget about in a week.

I think Lonnie could go either way survival wise. I think Bix will have a cameo at the end with Cassian's daughter who will be named after his sister. They still never did really explain his past on Kentari.

Luthan's assistant I think is going to survive the whole show and blow up the art gallary with Luthan and Dedra in it.

 

[draggs]

I still don't think he really felt any strong emotions over the EU.

From everything I've read his main emotion about the EU was being annoyed at having to spend time on it instead of working on the PT and scribbling his ideas for the ST. He was very pleased initially with the Thrawn trilogy but then as the EU got bigger and bigger and they kept coming to him asking questions and everything he was more and more leave me alone ffs

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

From everything I've read his main emotion about the EU was being annoyed at having to spend time on it instead of working on the PT and scribbling his ideas for the ST. He was very pleased initially with the Thrawn trilogy but then as the EU got bigger and bigger and they kept coming to him asking questions and everything he was more and more leave me alone ffs

Which makes more sense for his personallity. I really think after a certain point, he should have blocked off the post Endor timeline and had them wrap of that canon then stick to pre-PT

 

[Commander X]

Shocking new footage from the end of Andor.

 

[Breadbassket]

Wasn't there a tier of canon, like gold canon (the movies), silver canon (clone wars), and so on with small comic books being the least canon, almost "what if" stories?

There apparently was a hierarchy.

 

[Clyde Cash's Left Teste]

There apparently was a hierarchy.

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If you were going to do tiers of canon would you have Novels be more canon then comics or vise versa?

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

If you were going to do tiers of canon would you have Novels be more canon then comics or vise versa?

I would have two tiers:

>George Lucas Canon
>Non-Canon/Fanon

George Lucas is the creator and therefore what he says is canon and everything else is someone else's fanfic or interpretation of George's words.

 

[BullfrogBill]

I would have two tiers:

>George Lucas Canon
>Non-Canon/Fanon

George Lucas is the creator and therefore what he says is canon and everything else is someone else's fanfic or interpretation of George's words.

By this logic only the six movies and Filoni's Clone Wars would be canon since the sequel trilogy got so mucked up and it ended up straying from George's vision so much. You could alternatively go under the rule that anything with George Lucas' creative input is canon but then you would have stuff like the Holiday Special and a few of the comics and books but not all of them.

To each their own though, you can have whatever canon you want with these things. I usually assume anything that was published under the EU timeframe and included in their timeline is canon but I have certain caveats myself, for example I don't consider The Force Unleashed to be actually canon to the EU, I also don't consider the Star Wars Tales comics to be canon to the EU.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Lucasfilm under Lucas insisted that the comics, novels, and video game storylines are canon, no matter what Lucas himself said. C-canon material was still treated as canon unless they directly contradicted G-canon, which are the films. And whenever there's a conflict between two pieces of C-canon, Lucasfilm's lore nuts would find a way to reconcile it and make a public statement to clear things up.

As for Lucas himself, he doesn't give a shit. To him, Star Wars began and ended with the six films; for all he knows, the Rebels placed Leia upon Palpatine's throne and allowed the Empire to continue operating, just with a new leader, both sides accepted the new peace, Luke started a new Jedi Church where he's the unmarried Pope of the religion, Leia and Han's son didn't turn out to be a traitor, and the galaxy lived happily ever after.