Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

-Major Partagaz/Space Qyburn blowing his own brains out is probably because he knows the price of failure in the Empire. He probably didn't want to meet a certain space wizard-cyborg hybrid with a penchant for choking people who failed.
Also, Partagaz knows how the Empire handles failure: promoted, questioned, given specific impossible tasks, reprimanded for failure (once), demoted, awarded, promoted, questioned, excluded, arrested, tortured, released, arrested again, tortured - then killed and expunged from the records. Partagaz went out on his own terms and the irony here is: rebelled by denying the Imperial machine the triumph and satisfaction.
 
The Empire destroyed Ghorman, colonized countless systems that opposed Imperial rule, enslaved millions (billions?) of innocents under drummed up/false charges - why is Papaltine funding the creation of a war weapon capable of destroying other planets, so outrageous?

The live in a universe where bacteria infections (parasitic infections? WTF the midichlorians & whills are) can give people magical powers. Why the fuck is "Evil Fascist regime is making giant war machine to blow up planets" where everyone draws a line? The Empire is secretly funding the creation of new devastating superweapons sounds like a very logical conclusion to come to, especially considering the Rebellion grew larger/more organized.
And it's not like Saw wasn't trying to look into it the whole time. He is the reason they had to move the Death Star to begin with
 
The Empire destroyed Ghorman, colonized countless systems that opposed Imperial rule, enslaved millions (billions?) of innocents under drummed up/false charges - why is Papaltine funding the creation of a war weapon capable of destroying other planets, so outrageous?

The live in a universe where bacteria infections (parasitic infections? WTF the midichlorians & whills are) can give people magical powers. Why the fuck is "Evil Fascist regime is making giant war machine to blow up planets" where everyone draws a line? The Empire is secretly funding the creation of new devastating superweapons sounds like a very logical conclusion to come to, especially considering the Rebellion grew larger/more organized.
Even with the Empire's penchant for destruction, the technology level is completely out of scale for the regular Imperial operation. Usually when the Empire destroys a world, they either massacre everyone personally like Ghorman or bomb it from space. The idea of an impervious, massive, planet-busting superweapon seems far-fetched in the eyes of the council. And since they don't have proof, they won't believe it.

Also, Partagaz knows how the Empire handles failure: promoted, questioned, given specific impossible tasks, reprimanded for failure (once), demoted, awarded, promoted, questioned, excluded, arrested, tortured, released, arrested again, tortured - then killed and expunged from the records. Partagaz went out on his own terms and the irony here is: rebelled by denying the Imperial machine the triumph and satisfaction.
Basically, he'd rather kill himself than let the system do it for him, and it's obviously the right choice, given how the system might give him over to Vader or Palpatine, who obviously wouldn't make it quick.
 
Last edited:
Andor Season 2 has concluded, and what a show it was. The last arc is effectively a 3-episode conclusion which leads directly to Rogue One and wraps this entire trilogy up.

We open with Luthen and Kleya receiving a message from none other than Lonni. Luthen meets Lonni out in public, as the signal indicated. A nervous Lonni reveals that he had access to Dedra's files and while he was searching for her plans to hunt down Axis, he found troubling information. The Emperor's energy program is a front for some kind of weapon. Ghorman fuel, kyber crystals from Jedha, Galen Erso, Scarif. Lonni pleads Luthen to tell him where his family and him will be taken. Luthen reveals it is a place called Yavin before asking to know more about the weapon. We cut to Luthen leaving the meeting and learn that Lonni is still sitting on their meeting bench, slumped over, with a blaster bolt to the heart.

Luthen prepares to closed down shop after passing the information to Kleya. He is burning down the communications when there is a ring at his door. It is Dedra Meero. She carries with her an artifact. A damaged Imperial Starpath unit. The one from Ferrix. The game is up but in the moment Dedra allows herself to relish in her triumph, Luthen stabs himself with a ceremonial blade. A med team is rushed in to stabilize Luthen as he is transported to a hospital.

We flashback to a younger Luthen, as Sergeant Lear in some military, either late Republic or early Imperial. His unit is in the process of wiping out a village, which traumatized Lear to the point where he has to head back to his ship. He ends up finding a young girl hiding in the ship who he keeps hidden from the rest of the squad. Later flashbacks show Luthen and the now dubbed Kleya, haggling for artifacts, observing Imperial atrocities, and enacting some violence upon Imperials. Both of them having been planning their revenge against the Empire and steeling themselves for the consequences for a long time.

Kleya launches herself into an operation to eliminate the now compromised Luthen in the hospital. She disguises herself as a nurse, plants bombs on Imperial landers as a distraction for ISB guards, and eventually deactivates the stabilizer, allowing Luthen and his secrets to pass away.

Dedra Meero is in ISB custody and is being interrogated by none other than Director Krennic. He is here because of one single thing; Death Star. All information points to Dedra Meero as being the rebel spy. Lonni had her code certs, she overstepped authority as Axis was assigned to Supervisor Heert, and she had access to Death Star related information going back two years because she was searching for any clues related to Axis. All other potential suspects, Lonni, Luthen, and Kleya, are dead or missing.

Heert is on the hunt for Kleya after identifying her on the hospital floor Luthen was at during the time of his death. ISB locates her at the disused safehouse when she communicates to Wilmon over a pulse frequency. An alert is put out that she is carrying an infectious disease and ISB units swarm over any possible off-planet escape to prevent her from leaving.

Back on Yavin, Wilmon's pulse receiver gets a signal. He brings it over to Cassian, Welshi, and K2SO, stating that it has to be from Luthen and he would need their help. One unsanctioned flight later and they are on Courscant ready to rescue Kleya.

Kleya relays the information Luthen told her and his death to Cassian. She is prepared to stay behind as her connection to Luthen means that she would not be welcomed on Yavin, but Cassian dissuades her concerns. Yavin does not operate as Luthen did; they protect one another.

Heert and his team (which I think might be the strongest evidence that the ISB soldiers are CompForce as the pilot has a near match to the CompForce helmet depicted in WEG's Imperial Sourcebook) corner the rebels as the episode ends.

A firefight ensure between Cassian, Welshi, Kleya, and Heert's team. The rebels get knocked down by a stun grenade, with Kleya falling unconscious. K2SO, left behind on the U-wing transport, appears from behind and smashes the Imperials. Partagaz demands reinforcements but all the other teams are busy handling the false disease outbreak quarantine. The rebels return to Yavin with a wounded Kleya and a vital message.

Rebel leadership digests the information Cassian gave them. They distrust Luthen and have no verification of his information. Only Mon Mothma, who has had close ties to Luthen, believes somewhat in his information. Later, Mon gets Vel to talk to Cassian to confirm the truth of Luthen's message.

Vel and Cassian begin by toasting to their shared history and losses while working for Luthen. Gorn, Nemik, Taramyn, Cinta, the Ghormans, Ferrix, Cassian' mother, the Dhanis, and Aldhani itself. Cassian vouches for it by saying that he died for the information and that he was the reasons for all of them being here, with the Rebellion.

The rebels themselves being believing in the veracity of Luthen's information. They know of Saw Gerrera's activities on Jedha and that their contact in his group, Tivik, wants to talk to Cassian on the Ring of Kafrene.

Back on Courscant, Partagaz is listening to Nemik's manifesto as Lagret comes into the meeting room. "Just keeps spreading, doesn't it?" Partagaz remarks. Partagaz is the last person at the ISB who knows of the Death Star. To paraphrase a line from Krennic in Rogue One, the breaches have to be filled. He asks Lagret for a moment to collect his thoughts before being taken away. Lagret allows it, granting Partagaz a moment to pull out a blaster pistol and shoot himself.

We end on a montage. Kleya wakes up, recuperating from her injuries. She sees Welshi training soldiers. Wilmon and Dreena have a meal. Rebels eat together at a makeshift cafeteria, including Vel and Mon. Perrin sits sullenly in his luxury transport with the drunk wife of Davo Sculden on his shoulder. Dedra Meero sits in an Narkina styled prison, doomed to spend the rest of her days there. Kleya marvels at the work that Luthen and her sacrificed for, the creation of an armed rebellion against the Empire. Saw Gerrera observes an Imperial Star Destroyer over Jedha. Director Krennic looks out from a viewport at the nearly complete Death Star. Cassin and K2SO lift off in their U-wing to the Ring of Kafrene.

The last scene is on Mina-Rau. A bunch of people are cleaning up from a meal. B2EMO is there, playing with another droid. We see Bix walking through a field of wheat, carrying a baby in her arms.
 
Basically, he'd rather kill himself than let the system do it for him, and it's obviously the right choice, given how the system might give him over to Vader or Palpatine, who obviously wouldn't make it quick
I don't think we needed to see the gun shot.

Just that first shot outside of the office. The sad thing about everything is that most of the ISB people aren't really evil per-say.

I do wonder what Yularian thought of the Death Star and everything at the end
 
That journal by the wannabe-revolutionary says that the Imperial need for control is unnatural, but that couldn't be more false.
It is unnatural because it was a government established to serve only the Emperor. All the projects, the policies, the internal politics served to benefit the Emperor alone. The claims of peace and security were false and the Empire had to strain itself to the breaking point to keep up the facade of law and order.
Why does the Resistance inexplicably dismiss the Death Star intelligence as ridiculous conspiracy nonsense? Is the Empire building a weapon capable of blowing up planets really that outrageous, considering everything they know about the Imperial Government/Emperor Papaltine?
The Empire always had a wipe the population out and secure the planet’s resources mindset, at least in its depiction in Andor. Planet destruction is a denial of assets. It would not seem as a likely technology the Empire would use.
 
Someone like Luthen would probably be forced to face the wall, even by the Rebels, given how he's got no problem killing friendlies for his own ends.

Puts me in mind of the Catechism of a Revolutionary by Sergey Nechayev. Describes Luthen and especially Gerrera

"1. The revolutionary is a doomed man. He has no personal interests, no business affairs, no emotions, no attachments, no property, and no name. Everything in him is wholly absorbed in the single thought and the single passion for revolution.

2. The revolutionary knows that in the very depths of his being, not only in words but also in deeds, he has broken all the bonds which tie him to the social order and the civilized world with all its laws, moralities, and customs, and with all its generally accepted conventions. He is their implacable enemy, and if he continues to live with them it is only in order to destroy them more speedily.

....

8. The revolutionary can have no friendship or attachment, except for those who have proved by their actions that they, like him, are dedicated to revolution. The degree of friendship, devotion and obligation toward such a comrade is determined solely by the degree of his usefulness to the cause of total revolutionary destruction."

Such a man really is doomed, because beyond a certain point, his nihilism becomes a detriment. They become paranoid and divisive and have to be disposed of.
 
Even with the Empire's penchant for destruction, the technology level is completely out of scale for the regular Imperial operation. Usually when the Empire destroys a world, they either massacre everyone personally like Ghorman or bomb it from space. The idea of an impervious, massive, planet-busting superweapon seems far-fetched in the eyes of the council. And since they don't have proof, they won't believe it.
The Empire always had a wipe the population out and secure the planet’s resources mindset, at least in its depiction in Andor. Planet destruction is a denial of assets. It would not seem as a likely technology the Empire would use.

Okay, my bad. Ignore all my prior comments. I made them under the impression Grand Moff Tarkin's Maw Installation ultra-secret superweapons development lab was still canon in the Disney-verse. Apparently it's been retconned out of existence. (Wait, if it never existed, than where the fuck did the First Order get all its superweapons from? Heck, the First Order's weird buried Armada from episode 9 were strikingly similar to Sun Crushers!)
 
Okay, my bad. Ignore all my prior comments. I made them under the impression Grand Moff Tarkin's Maw Installation ultra-secret superweapons development lab was still canon in the Disney-verse. Apparently it's been retconned out of existence. (Wait, if it never existed, than where the fuck did the First Order get all its superweapons from? Heck, the First Order's weird buried Armada from episode 9 were strikingly similar to Sun Crushers!)
Even if it was canon, the Senate doesn't even know about it, so they naturally won't believe the Death Star exists.

Such a man really is doomed, because beyond a certain point, his nihilism becomes a detriment. They become paranoid and divisive and have to be disposed of.
Exactly. The first wave of revolutionaries, be they the Jacobins, the Old Bolsheviks, or the SA Stormtroopers, are typically purged or replaced by the second wave, like Napoleon, the Stalinists, and the Waffen-SS.

The more chaotic Rebels like Saw and Luthen, if they survived past 0 ABY, would probably be abandoned by the official Rebel Alliance, or even "dropped" like Tay Kolma, because the Alliance can't afford PR disasters like them. It'd be hard to get Imperial officers to defect to the Alliance if they're just going to get shot by Luthen or tortured by Saw.

I don't think we needed to see the gun shot.

Just that first shot outside of the office. The sad thing about everything is that most of the ISB people aren't really evil per-say.
They're basically public servants and sanitation workers, just like the Jedi. Except instead of lightsabers and psychic powers, they use bureaucracy and state control.

I do wonder what Yularian thought of the Death Star and everything at the end
He was on it, so I don't think there's much condemnation on his part. It's not like Rom Mohc who wouldn't touch the Death Star with a ten-foot pole.
 
There's a lot of this in andor as well to be fair. Not from luthen and mothma so much but basically all the others.

I'm really tired of this trope in writing in general, and particularly star wars. People don't completely change their disposition just because of near death experiences or gained wisdom, they reflect more and can be more prone to anger or anxiety or such, but their day to day persona doesn't change. That's actually part of why PTSD is so hard to detect.
A competent writer could've taken Ahsoka's faults and had them manifest in a way that evolves the character without creating a new personality entirely. Like Anakin makes very sardonic cracks, something he probably got from Obi-Wan and a bit from himself being a lonely kid on a shithole planet, that trait continues as Vader just not in a positive way. Ahsoka was always headstrong, preppy, and after being thrown under the bus by the JO would have immense emotional baggage. Which is fine, because for a kid to go through that level of betrayal from mentors or peers would damage your entire outlook on life for years. I still hold the belief that after that arc, she shouldn't have made future appearances. Her fate could've been left up in the air.
I'm convinced Ahsoka going from quirky, teasgin, creative, and optimistic to completely bland across the board is just because the actress can't act.
Rosario Dawson really cannot act and is far too unfit personality wise and physically to be Ahsoka. Shes known for nude scenes in a handful of movies. Compare Hayden returning as Anakin, they're both around the same age but he still moves with the same grace and aura as he did in the prequel trilogy. They needed someone younger, who still sounds like a bit of a teenager who could banter back with other characters. But Disney wasn't interested in that.
 
The Rebellion is a benign military dictatorship fighting against the malignant military dictatorship of the Empire. Someone like Luthen would be seen as a loose cannon; his tactics would cost them men and material just to further his own goals, that he decides for himself, and that would not be tolerated. Especially when he kills allies based on his own judgement; that would not be tolerated in the Alliance, where they need every asset and person they can get.
It's novel to find myself agreeing with you for once, but I guess it wont kill me! :)

Yes, Luthen was playing chess and the rebel alliance was playing, I don't know, laser tag? Both were appropriate for the stages they were in. Thinking through moves ahead, sacrificing pieces, guarding ones plans - vital to lay the ground work for the rebellion. Actively engaging the enemy in a guerilla war, mobile, hiding, striking fast and falling back - the next logical step.

The transition was well-managed and I liked how they showed it so naturally. But I can also very much see how Cassian saw it as an almost-betrayal by Mon, Bail and woman-in-gold to suddenly become the figureheads and frankly that's mostly what they were. Do we think Mon Mothma has an extensive military experience to guide the rebellion with? Do we think she has a deep understanding of logistics and supply? An extensive network of contacts, spies and arms dealers to supply the rebellion with intel or weapons? No - she's an orator and a fine one, and she is brave to have done what she did all those years. But in many ways a figurehead. To people on the frontlines, both militarily and in the espionage side, it's got to feel a bit galling to suddenly have this person you rescued on Luthen's orders, suddenly telling you what you can and cannot do.

I'm hyped for the Perrin show, where we see him become a lawyer following the events of Season 2 of Andor and he streams for super chats moneys.

View attachment 7360064
He's like, our guy. Perfect for the role! He can have my super chat berries
That was a weird addition to the closing character montage. I don't dislike it, but is he supposed to be a future player in affairs now? Or was it meant to communicate something about his being sad and discarded on the wrong side of things? I feel like I may have missed something somewhere.

I liked how I thought he was about to put his arm around the sleeping woman but turned out he was just going for the bottle.

Thing is, it is quite excusable as being a mobile, logistical space station as well as a command centre and massive organisational hub full to the brim of offices meant to centralize and making ruling the empire easier so the empire can move shit off of Coruscant. It's basically just the Empire's pentagon.
Ehhhh, you'd need a million little secrets and restrictions and misdirects to misrepresent what it is. I feel in this instance one big lie is easier than a hundred thousand smaller ones. The senators are career bureaucrats. They'd smell something was off with it pretty quickly and they'd all be jostling for contracts and cuts and be miffed at the endless rebuffs. A single big "energy project" black hole is somehow easier in many ways. It's more separated than an "organizational hub" would be.

Just that first shot outside of the office. The sad thing about everything is that most of the ISB people aren't really evil per-say.
It's sad to think about how easily good people could be swept into it. Imagine Partagaz as some mid-ranking officer or brave intelligence operative during the Clone Wars. He's about the right age for that. Having bravely put down Seperatist terrorist operations and helped restore peace and order out of the chaos, he's promoted into the newly formed ISB. A chance to help protect the restored order and make sure the horrors of the Clone Wars never return. How long would it be and how subtle, before he noticed the change and what he was really doing.

I think the fact he was listening to the rebel speech at the end was quite sad. It suggested he was considering if it might be true.

The empire collapses like five years later, she is probably not locked up for long.
It would be an amusing spin-off to have rebels breaking open the prisons and freeing all the political prisoners. "What's on her charge sheet?" "Sedition." "Okay, get her out of here she's one of us. See if she has any useful skills as well - maybe she'll be an asset."

I honestly felt sorry for her at the end. She'd had a shit of a life and even though confronting Luthen personally was a stupid error, the gall of seeing someone else take credit for your years of work would be an enormous thing to have to swallow. Can see why she swooped in even though it was stupid.

Krennic was brilliantly horrible in this show. The way he fucking stuck his finger on her head. Especially as we've established Dedre has severe issues being touched or any kind of intimacy.

Rosario Dawson really cannot act and is far too unfit personality wise and physically to be Ahsoka. Shes known for nude scenes in a handful of movies. Compare Hayden returning as Anakin, they're both around the same age but he still moves with the same grace and aura as he did in the prequel trilogy. They needed someone younger, who still sounds like a bit of a teenager who could banter back with other characters. But Disney wasn't interested in that.
Rosario Dawson is a bad actress. Casting her as Ahsoka a colossal mistake. Though seeing Ray Stevenson boot her off that cliff was almost worth it. That guy had every drop of presence that Dawson lacked. It's a flaw when the villains in your movie are so much more charismatic than the hero. I even felt more compassion for Shin Hati and she was a Dark Sider. But she looked half-starved and haunted most of the time. Whereas Dawson just looked well-fed and smug.

I dipped in and out of that show mainly to get the essentials. I couldn't take too much of Dawson. She's really bad and I don't know how she gets these roles. She was in the Netflix Defender shows and she was bad in those as well.
 
Man I am so disappointed by Andor S2.
S1 was pure gold, total thriller, loads of build up, rewarding payoffs, literal Kino kino, what's the big defining scene from S2? the fricking wheat fields? ugh, BORING.
Syril is the only redeeming factor, le resistance was funny too, I've already forgotten the rest of it.
 
Compare Hayden returning as Anakin, they're both around the same age but he still moves with the same grace and aura as he did in the prequel trilogy. They needed someone younger, who still sounds like a bit of a teenager who could banter back with other characters. But Disney wasn't interested in that.
I don't know much about Disney Star Wars canon and I don't really care about it at all but why do people think that Ahsoka should have been a teenager in a show that takes place over 20 years after the prequel era when she was a teenager? Am I missing something? Does Disney lore say that Ahsoka is supposed to be eternally a teenager woman child? As far as I'm aware she's supposed to be in her 40s in her live action appearances.
 
I don't know much about Disney Star Wars canon and I don't really care about it at all but why do people think that Ahsoka should have been a teenager in a show that takes place over 20 years after the prequel era when she was a teenager? Am I missing something? Does Disney lore say that Ahsoka is supposed to be eternally a teenager woman child? As far as I'm aware she's supposed to be in her 40s in her live action appearances.
Kid Ahsoka's voice was really chirpy. She must've smoked cartons of death sticks to get it to be as low as it is today.
 
Andor's finally made me feel like we need a Galactic Civil War show to further some of the surviving casts stories.
Wrong.gif
Dear god, no. You know they'd make Andor's daughter into a Jedi and second best behind Rey. I just want Disney Star Wars to end.
 
Back