YouTube Historians/HistoryTube/PopHistory

[Justsomecicada]

but also how they could come together in solidarity.

That’s a very generous way to say mass formation psychosis.

 

[Foltest]

Around 9/11 I will always read forums from the day it happened such as SA and Newgrounds even though you cant hear the voices while reading you just know the people typing are both confused and terrified.

edit: found the newgrounds thread. and the SA thread too

I am now in a real rabbit hole when it comes to 9/11.
I remember seeing the amazing "9/11" documntery that is from 2002.
Containts the only clear footage of when the north tower is hit.

 

[Justsomecicada]

Speaking of Christianity, here's Wendigoon covering the cult/Christian sect led by Jan van Leiden

Jack Rackham has also done a video on them. Much shorter and simplifies the cult's whole deal as being proto-Communists.

I wonder, does anyone think it’s possible these type of anabaptists could have survived until modern day had things gone differently? I’m more inclined to think no but I’m curious to hear you all think

(less then 10 minutes in and he is doing the Voltaire meme)

 

[Flaming Insignias]

I wonder, does anyone think it’s possible these type of anabaptists could have survived until modern day had things gone differently? I’m more inclined to think no but I’m curious to hear you all think

As is, I sincerely doubt that revolutionary Anabaptists had much hope of enduring beyond the first century of peasant revolts. The fact that they actively revolted against both Catholic and Protestant rulers meant that nobody would tolerate them and worked to suppress them hard, which is why the moderates fled to the Americas. From there, they have only survived so long due to the government not caring to force them to join society until the last century, and at this point they risk falling apart due to their insular nature making them as genetically fucked as Muslims.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

I remember @Corpun brought up this subject once before.

 

[Corpun]

As is, I sincerely doubt that revolutionary Anabaptists had much hope of enduring beyond the first century of peasant revolts. The fact that they actively revolted against both Catholic and Protestant rulers meant that nobody would tolerate them and worked to suppress them hard, which is why the moderates fled to the Americas. From there, they have only survived so long due to the government not caring to force them to join society until the last century, and at this point they risk falling apart due to their insular nature making them as genetically fucked as Muslims.

That's really only the Old Order Amish and Mennonite communities however. Most Amish and Mennonites and up to date with technology but still adhere to their Anabaptist origins. Also, Amish-made goods are great.

There's a neat little story behind some obscure colored Pearl Harbor footage. The actual footage itself doesn't show much, but it helped illustrate to me how terrifying it must have been in person a lot better than all the black-and-white photos ever have. Probably the moment in US History after 9/11 that can be considered a SHTF moment.

 

[Eventide]

Christianstory is a brand new youtube account that will be covering Christian theology and the church.

Why is the nun in the first thumbnail looking like she's an Akatsuki member/wearing their drip?

 

[Corpun]

I remember @Corpun brought up this subject once before.

A lot of museums are falling for this madness of hiding human remains too. It's all done with 'respect' in mind but none of this existed before 2020. The Penn Museum used to showcase this crushed skull of a Babylonian male, shit was totally flat, now they just show a shitty image where it was displayed. They had a few others and I am wondering what they plan to do when the new Egyptian Wing opens up in about a year considering they have one of the most extensive collections of mummies on the East Coast.

As for archaeology, I've heard a lot of horror stories of some of the people who have graduated and gone into the field I can share. Most of it relates to all the laws surrounding Native American sites and how those are exploited.

 

[Eventide]

As for archaeology, I've heard a lot of horror stories of some of the people who have graduated and gone into the field I can share. Most of it relates to all the laws surrounding Native American sites and how those are exploited.

As a Native American, a lot of those strict laws, like taking rocks from federally designated lands deemed "Native burial grounds" are used by the feds to essentially shake institutions down for fine money, mafia style.

Heck, the movie the Maze Runner got fined millions, due its set not properly behaving on what I believe were Pueblo ancient burial grounds (although in that case an actor allegedly stole an arrowhead...than got into an accident & suffered from severe brain damage. So um, maybe some real misconduct went down if folks were getting cursed...)

 

[LovisXVI]

A lot of museums are falling for this madness of hiding human remains too. It's all done with 'respect' in mind but none of this existed before 2020. The Penn Museum used to showcase this crushed skull of a Babylonian male, shit was totally flat, now they just show a shitty image where it was displayed. They had a few others and I am wondering what they plan to do when the new Egyptian Wing opens up in about a year considering they have one of the most extensive collections of mummies on the East Coast.

I can kind of understand that one, as I have always felt very disturbed when seeing mummies just displayed and thinking about how there is a corpse in there, even if I can't see it directly. That said, the way they "respect" the bodies and bone fragments by reburying them is asinine and actively harmful to the study of those people.

 

[Yours Truly 2095]

 

[Pedophobe]

I can kind of understand that one, as I have always felt very disturbed when seeing mummies just displayed and thinking about how there is a corpse in there, even if I can't see it directly. That said, the way they "respect" the bodies and bone fragments by reburying them is asinine and actively harmful to the study of those people.

Having people hundreds or thousands of years from now line up and pay money to view my remains would be the coolest thing ever.

 

[Corpun]

I can kind of understand that one, as I have always felt very disturbed when seeing mummies just displayed and thinking about how there is a corpse in there, even if I can't see it directly. That said, the way they "respect" the bodies and bone fragments by reburying them is asinine and actively harmful to the study of those people.

Except they don't they just keep the remains in their archives for study (Understandable) which means it is pointless virtue signalling. It all really started around 2023 when you saw articles and statements being published announcing museums new human remain policies. In pretty much every case it was due to the highly unethical acquisition of poor or black human remains for study in the 19th century that ended up in their collections. Most of these remains were never displayed but both because of Floyd and the political leanings of museum leadership, this led to museum after museum jumping on the bandwagon and hiding away every human remain, even if it is a bundle of hair or a toe bone or something.

Time for some archaeology horror stories, mostly related to NAGPRA (I can say a lot of bad things about this law but I understand the original intent)

Spoiler: Professor's horror story

Way back in the 1990s, my professor was in contract archaeology and got hired to do field work for some firm in California. This firm was contracted to do work for some mining company opening a new mine on a Native American burial site. The local tribe in the area gave permission, and had lived in the area for a few centuries. This will come in play later.

While they are excavating (with fucking bulldozers, not the actual archaeological method for recording data) my professor was getting annoyed. They weren't taking down any details, any studies, etc. They were just pulling up clumps of bones, even after my professor relized this site was probbaly in use for burials for close to 1000 years and predated the tribe in the area, these weren't their ancestors. He eventually walked off the site when one crew excavated a clump of skeletons, left half a couple in the pit, then refilled it.

Why did this all happen? The tribe didn't care and just wanted the money. The company didn't care and wanted the mine. The contract archaeollgy company just wanted the contract. What happened to the remains? Apparently they were packed together without any study or understanding, because again this site was not studied at all during the excavation and reburied in some large pit on tribal authority.

Again, this tribe had no actual history with the people and the dig itself was poorly executed and cannot be called professional archaeology..

Spoiler: Story from one graduated student

This one I heard secondhand, but I saw photos of the site. A company was doing a railway extension recently for commercial rail and was doing it across what was found to be a Susquehannock site. This will be important later. The company contracted for CRM (Cultural Resource Management) work had an alcoholic as a supervisor.

Despite this the crew took notes, did proper excavations, and realized it was an entire village site. These are semi-rare due to the environment of the area, and are kind of important since the Susquehannocks were the important tribe in the region. They even found a part of a preserved mat the tribe had made. This is extremely uncommon given the soil conditions and the fact that most of it should have disintegrated. Besides that there was evidence of graves, based on teeth found in small ditches across the village site (The bones have long since disintegrated in the soil).

Why haven't you heard of this site? The Delaware Indian Tribe. The Delaware/Lenape Tribe came in, told everyone to stop digging, and claimed the artifacts from the site. No site report can be made, no further excavations, everything had to be closed down. This site literally cannot be further developed without criminal prosecution for doing so, and the railway company can probably continue their expansion once they give the Lenape a large payment of money.

Why is this an issue? The Lenape ARE NOT related to the Susquehannock's, in fact they were historical enemies. The Susquehannock people are genetically and linguistically related to the Iroquois and Five Nations of New York, not the Lenape Tribe. The Lenape Tribe did not even live in the same geographic region as the Susquehannocks. If these artifacts are supposed to go to any trube, and if any tribe is supposed to have custody over the site of a long extinct tribe, it should be the Iroquois of New York. But no, every artifact was surrendered without contest and this site will never be made public, even though the Susquehannocks are probably one of the most interesting Native American tribes on the East Coast.

Spoiler: Second horror story from another graduated student

This one also involved the Delaware Indian Tribe. This person was contracted to do some work in Virginia down on the Appomattox battlefield. The details don't really matter but basically the park was doing shit with pipes on the park and per Federal Laws had to do CRM work before any work could be done.

What do they discover? A whole site with pottery, projectile points, etc. pointing to a Native American site being on the area. Some genius had the amazing idea to invite some Native Americans as relays. Ok, sure, whatever. Are you bringing in one of the tribes the Virginia State Government recognizes, given this is in Virginia? Nope, let's bring the Delaware Indians in again!

The people they bring in demand the excavation stop. Artifacts can't even be cleaned on their orders because they declare the soil sacred and it sacrilegous to clean them. This former student was literally mid-cleaning a batch of artifacts when her supervisor came in and told her to stop on their orders, so she just had to vaguely identify everything while they were covered in dirt. As someone who has done an excavation, this makes artifact identification 100x harder than it should be.

All the artifacts were turned over to the tribe, who said they were going to rebury them. Where at? Who knows. Maybve in Oklahoma where the Delaware have a reservation? Maybe they will haphazardly throw them around the site, destroying any data the crew had already made. Archaeology is an inherently destructive process which is why recording data is crucial to the field and these people have no care about this. Again, no site report will probably end up being published, but at least they took actual data.

TLDR: NAGPRA has been abused since its inception by grifting assholes in Native American tribes to hide the history of tribes both extinct and extant. My professor is actually pretty sure in both of the last two cases, the artifacts are probably taken to be sold online, which is a well-known issue with sites like these when tribes do end up involved. And you can't just ignore them because even if NAGPRA doesn't actually apply, a tribe will try and invoke it and turn the whole thing into a protracted legal battle. They have no respect for the archaeological process or the actual sites in most cases and are only in it to abuse what legal powers they actually have instead of fixing their own reservations. This kvetching severely hinders understanding the history of the continent and in many cases tribes are claiming shit that didn't even belong to their ancestors. (See Kennewick Man)

You might be wondering why I am stress the lack of site reporting but it is important to the field. Professionally, archaeologists have an ethical responsibility to publish findings and make them accessible to the public. This is both for peers and people actually interested in the site. You can go online right now and found countless site reports across the US, and they are fundamental to studying cultures and finding similarities between sites. Without doing this important step we wouldn't be able to know half the shit we do about any given group of people.

Thankfully it has yet to hit Paleoindian sites (sites about 20,000-10,000 years ago) and the actual peopling of the Americas, but given current trends, it most likely will in a couple decades.

 

[Flaming Insignias]

@Corpun I cannot state how frustrated I am with the archeological repatriation movement, and especially the “joke” about how museums are full of stolen artifacts. What was not a war trophy was often obtained from the ruins of long-extinct civilizations whose descendants are so radically removed from said precursors that giving them said artifacts would be no better than giving them to strangers. Those ruins would not be ruins if there were still people that cared about them, and in the case of Pre-Islamic civilizations it is outright suicidal to hand them over to the modern governments of those regions when iconoclasm is considered a major tenant of their religious law. Shame then that wokeness currently plagues archeology and anthropology in ways that makes Thulean cranks seem reasonable.

 

[Corpun]

@Corpun I cannot state how frustrated I am with the archeological repatriation movement, and especially the “joke” about how museums are full of stolen artifacts. What was not a war trophy was often obtained from the ruins of long-extinct civilizations whose descendants are so radically removed from said precursors that giving them said artifacts would be no better than giving them to strangers. Those ruins would not be ruins if there were still people that cared about them, and in the case of Pre-Islamic civilizations it is outright suicidal to hand them over to the modern governments of those regions when iconoclasm is considered a major tenant of their religious law. Shame then that wokeness currently plagues archeology and anthropology in ways that makes Thulean cranks seem reasonable.

I consider it a slight saving grace that most of this madness related to museums and the archaeological field are only mainstream in the Anglosphere. The German government still refuses to give everything in the Pergamum Museum back to Iraq and Turkey for example.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

TLDR: NAGPRA has been abused since its inception by grifting assholes in Native American tribes to hide the history of tribes both extinct and extant. My professor is actually pretty sure in both of the last two cases, the artifacts are probably taken to be sold online, which is a well-known issue with sites like these when tribes do end up involved. And you can't just ignore them because even if NAGPRA doesn't actually apply, a tribe will try and invoke it and turn the whole thing into a protracted legal battle. They have no respect for the archaeological process or the actual sites in most cases and are only in it to abuse what legal powers they actually have instead of fixing their own reservations. This kvetching severely hinders understanding the history of the continent and in many cases tribes are claiming shit that didn't even belong to their ancestors. (See Kennewick Man)

These native ironically have done a lot more to hurt the image of native history and to help perpetrate the myth that nothing really happen here before the arrival of the White Man.

I consider it a slight saving grace that most of this madness related to museums and the archaeological field are only mainstream in the Anglosphere. The German government still refuses to give everything in the Pergamum Museum back to Iraq and Turkey for example.

I remember years ago this German museum once had these artifacts from this tribe from Nigeria. And these curators felt a sense of white guilt and wanted to return these "stolen" artifacts to a member of this tribe. They handed them to a guy who was somewhat related to one of their former kings. The curators traveled to Nigeria to where this tribe is located expecting the artifacts to be proudly displayed and only to find out they were sold off by that guy for some drinking money or whatever. Like I remember even the British Museum was somewhat moved by that gesture only forbid any "return of stolen goods" when it was revealed on what happened to those artifacts.

 

[Corpun]

I remember years ago this German museum once had these artifacts from this tribe from Nigeria. And these curators felt a sense of white guilt and wanted to return these "stolen" artifacts to a member of this tribe. They handed them to a guy who was somewhat related to one of their former kings. The curators traveled to Nigeria to where this tribe is located expecting the artifacts to be proudly displayed and only to find out they were sold off by that guy for some drinking money or whatever. Like I remember even the British Museum was somewhat moved by that gesture only forbid any "return of stolen goods" when it was revealed on what happened to those artifacts.

You might be thinking of the Benin Bronzes the British Museum owned. They returned them to the royal family of Benin expecting them to be put on display in a Nigerian Museum, only for them to be put in the private estate of the king, away from public eye. The Germans did return a shit ton of skulls they collected from dead Africans as part of late 19th century Phrenology studies.

A lot of the human remains policies stem from the more biological aspects of Anthropology and the shady nature a lot of remains were acquired, usually with little to no documentation.

These native ironically have done a lot more to hurt the image of native history and to help perpetrate the myth that nothing really happen here before the arrival of the White Man.

My professor probably put it best went lecturing on NAGPRA that is is one part wanting to control the narrative of 'We were always here' and one part Natives unable to handle alternative viewpoints. Unfortunately there are many Native Americans who are interested in the deep history of their people and their origins and want that history uncovered, but there are just too many grifters, activists, and assholes eager to abuse NAGPRA to prevent any real discovery. Pretty much all major finds from pre-Columbian Nstive sites happened pre-NAGPRA, and the ones that have been researched since either use heavy oversight from local tribes to avoid controversy or are just too old to be associated with any given tribe.

The Cooper's Ferry Site is probably the best example of this. The Nez Perce gave permission for archaeologists to excavate the site (It's one of the oldest sites in North America and pushed back migration into the Americas by a couple thousand years) and were also not intrusive to the whole process.

 

[Professor Donger]

 

[madethistocomment]

Around 9/11 I will always read forums from the day it happened such as SA and Newgrounds even though you cant hear the voices while reading you just know the people typing are both confused and terrified.

edit: found the newgrounds thread. and the SA thread too

That one guy on SA immediately pegging it as Osama Bin Laden's work even before the towers fell is insane. The "WATCH BUSH START A FUCKING WAR" comment like three replies below it is up there, too.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Potential History is still around?