Plagued Consoomers / Consoomer Culture - Because if it has a recogniseable brand on it, I’d buy it!

[Skylavijas]

If you believe that the behavior of treating unusual objects as speculative trading vehicles is somehow caused by a regress of culture and "commodification", then may I introduce you to the tulip mania of the 1630s during the Dutch Golden Age?

It's not an alien concept for me. I am aware that places like prisons had used soups, candy bars and cigarettes as substitute for currency or even low-value stocks. When I was doing military training, there was one bloke that was a non-smoker, but still would buy a pack of cigarettes, purely to gain favors or in exchange for other minor things like chocolate pieces. If your platoon is stuck in the barracks for an extended period of time, not let out for the weekend, the value on civilian store items starts to balloon, due to scarcity. And there are a LOT of nicotine addicts in those places, that had paid the monetary value of a whole pack worth of money for just a few cigs, to get that hit.

However, I do not in any sort of way equate that to scalping of video game consoles or pokemon cards, as scarcity is artificial by design to control people. The inmates/conscripts act good? They get to bring more civilian goodies. They start a riot? They'll get fuck-all for the next month. Done the right way, commodification on insignificant goods can actually promote socially acceptable behavior, in a "carrot and a stick" sort of way. But scalping absolutely doesn't do that. As seen with the covid pandemic, it takes something as basic as purchasing toilet paper into competition. Since people are encouraged to horde, that promotes numerous other behaviors like overspending, selfishness, or even stealing. Ethical behavior gets punished, while consumption at the expense of others is rewarded. That's not social cohesion. Social cohesion is when people purchase as much as they need and have restraint to not overbuy, so that other people within their community wouldn't lose access to such products.

I will admit that "cultural degeneration" has become an utterly loaded term, that is used to justify ANYTHING, from Islamic theocracy, to communist dictatorship, to anarcho-primitivism, but I'm gonna call a spade a spade here and say that scalping, more often than not, is an objective negative on society, even if I at times find myself sympathizing with people who are desperate for money to pay off their loans or child support or whatever.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

However, I do not in any sort of way equate that to scalping of video game consoles or pokemon cards, as scarcity is artificial by design to control people.

Scarcity in any meaningful sense is a physical attribute. It describes the notion that there can be mutually exclusive and thus conflicting ways of using a thing. For instance, a cake is scarce because you cannot eat it and have it simultaneously. Every physical object is scarce.

Social cohesion is when people purchase as much as they need and have restraint to not overbuy, so that other people within their community wouldn't lose access to such products.

That's cute of you, but what if I go out there and become a Ferrari salesperson and offer to sell Ferraris at 10 bucks a pop?
Of course people will come and get an absurdly good deal because, at that price point, there are way more people willing to buy a Ferrari than there are people willing to manufacture and sell Ferraris. Accordingly, the equilibrium or market-clearing price (that is the price point where everybody who is willing to sell has someone who is willing to buy, and everyone who is willing to buy has someone who is willing to sell) is much higher than 10 bucks. That is the whole idea behind scalping.
Scalping can only occur where an item has a listed "sale" price (so nobody uses the word "scalping" when buying, for instance, stocks, to resell them at a higher price later) and when that price is far lower than the equilibrium price.
I've written quite comprehensive elaborations on what scalping is, what causes scalping, and why scalping is not some ethical or economical problem in this forum before

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

When it comes to TCGs there is no difference between the two. There are so many worthless trash cards they're buying the packs to find the one card that's either worth money or good competitively at which point it is removed and either sold as an individual lot for a massive markup or added to their deck and then all the other 100+ cards are bundled up and either shoved in a giant Tupperware tote and forgotten about, thrown away, or sold as a bulk lot for a massive markup.

It gets really weird in that the only way cracking packs is profitable is when you do enough of it you can do things like that.

Like i play MTG...The only product I buy from WOTC directly is the Set Bundle for the Dice and the Box, aside from that I buy single cards from independent vendors because Cracking Packs is largely just not worth it.

 

[Skylavijas]

Scarcity in any meaningful sense is a physical attribute. It describes the notion that there can be mutually exclusive and thus conflicting ways of using a thing. For instance, a cake is scarce because you cannot eat it and have it simultaneously. Every physical object is scarce.

Don't quite understand the point here. Weight is also a physical attribute, but under most circumstances I wouldn't call an elephant very light, because a mountain is way heavier, or call a mouse really heavy, because it weighs substantially more than a microbe. Depending on the context, gold can be labeled as abundant, because it's more common than Kashmir Sapphire, and oxygen can be described as scarce, because CO2 is substantially more abundant. But if you insist on such rigid understanding of physical properties, insisting on calling coffee a bean soup, I suppose I can't change that.

I've written quite comprehensive elaborations on what scalping is, what causes scalping, and why scalping is not some ethical or economical problem in this forum before

Actually, can you elaborate on that? Why scalping isn't an economical concern? If it promotes hoarding doesn't that on its own lead to the equilibrium being pushed?

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

Don't quite understand the point here. Weight is also a physical attribute, but under most circumstances I wouldn't call an elephant very light, because a mountain is way heavier, or call a mouse really heavy, because it weighs substantially more than a microbe. Depending on the context, gold can be labeled as abundant, because it's more common than Kashmir Sapphire, and oxygen can be described as scarce, because CO2 is substantially more abundant. But if you insist on such rigid understanding of physical properties, insisting on calling coffee bean soup, I suppose I can't change that.

My point is that scarcity is not the opposite of abundance. Sand in a desert is abundant and scarce. The opposite of abundance is shortage.

Actually, can you elaborate on that? Why scalping isn't an economical concern? If it promotes hoarding doesn't that on its own lead to the equilibrium being pushed?

Recall what the equilibrium is: The price point at which every willing seller finds a willing buyer, and vice versa. A price point below the equilibrium has too many people looking to buy - leading to buyers going home empty-handed, a price point above the equilibrium has too few - leading to unsold inventory.
Scalping can only occur
1. For a physical good (there's no such thing of a shortage of digital goods)
2. with a list price (there's no such thing as scalping stocks or shares or currencies)
3. that is significantly below the equilibrium price (the list price has way more people willing to buy)
It's a fairly common tactic to intentionally have a way too low list price for something to drum up demand and advertisement. What better advertisement can you have for a show or an event if people are standing hundreds of meters in line to get a ticket, for instance?

 

[Retarded Weeb]

My point is that scarcity is not the opposite of abundance. Sand in a desert is abundant and scarce. The opposite of abundance is shortage.

I don't think how you use scarce is how other people uses scarce.

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

I don't think how you use scarce is how other people uses scarce.

Maybe true, I'm approaching this topic on the grounds of economics and ethics. Where the definition of "scarce" that I use is appropriate.

 

[Cuntspiracy Man]

View attachment 7426201

I don't think how you use scarce is how other people uses scarce.

>compared to the demand
this is pretty important and probably fit in with what other guy is saying, something may be common but the demand for it is larger than the supply

 

[Retarded Weeb]

>compared to the demand
this is pretty important and probably fit in with what other guy is saying, something may be common but the demand for it is larger than the supply

Not arguing with that, but it would still mean the example of sand in the desert isn't accurate since there's no real demand for sand. If we're just talking about there being a limited amount even if it outstrips demand then a more appropriate word would be "finite".

 

[Cuntspiracy Man]

the example of sand in the desert isn't accurate since there's no real demand for sand.

there actually is, it's a finite resource and there's places where it's near nonexistent and hard to acquire, plenty of supply, but still demand elsewhere

 

[Retarded Weeb]

there actually is, it's a finite resource and there's places where it's near nonexistent and hard to acquire, plenty of supply, but still demand elsewhere

Well yeah, that means it's scarce in those areas. But not in a desert. Something can be scarce in one location but abundant somewhere else.

 

[Skylavijas]

Scalping can only occur
1. For a physical good (there's no such thing of a shortage of digital goods)

It can technically occur for virtual game cosmetics or skins, as many get released only during specific seasons or become available only at very low quantities, creating an artificial shortage, which makes the items substantially more valuable than their intrinsic value. Although, I can only see this happening in games with sufficiently complex player economies like MMOs. If somebody had partaken in scalping of virtual goods, it would be Eve Online or some shit, the type of things people do in that game is mind boggling.

It's a fairly common tactic to intentionally have a way too low list price for something to drum up demand and advertisement. What better advertisement can you have for a show or an event if people are standing hundreds of meters in line to get a ticket, for instance?

Wait... you're saying that all those instances of people standing in massive lines to get the latest iphone or some blokes buying up entire shelves of Magic the Gathering cards... it all is instigated on purpose by setting really low prices in conjunction of having limited availability, even if they're fully capable of doing so otherwise? Then that would mean that substantial part of the oddities recorded within the thread are a by-product of corporate psychological manipulation. Are most consoomers actually victims of psyops?

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

It can technically occur for virtual game cosmetics or skins, as many get released only during specific seasons or become available only at very low quantities, creating an artificial shortage, which makes the items substantially more valuable than their intrinsic value. Although, I can only see this happening in games with sufficiently complex player economies like MMOs. If somebody had partaken in scalping of virtual goods, it would be Eve Online or some shit, the type of things people do in that game is mind boggling.

No, no, first of all there is no such thing as "intrinsic value". Virtual game cosmetics are not even metaphysically existent beyond some texture and mesh definitions, database entries for player inventory tracking, and inventory parametrization, all of which only metaphysically exist on server and computer disks.
And secondly, most virtual games don't even have markets, because they don't have any trading of items between players. Any and all prices are completely made up by the storefront operator.

Wait... you're saying that all those instances of people standing in massive lines to get the latest iphone or some blokes buying up entire shelves of Magic the Gathering cards... it all is instigated on purpose by setting really low prices in conjunction of having limited availability, even if they're fully capable of doing so otherwise? Then that would mean that substantial part of the oddities recorded within the thread are a by-product of corporate psychological manipulation. Are most consoomers actually victims of psyops?

Yes.
Always have been.
The consoomer is a purely psychological phenomenon.

 

[Skylavijas]

most virtual games don't even have markets, because they don't have any trading of items between players. Any and all prices are completely made up by the storefront operator.

Which is why I used Eve Online as an example, an MMO with a market where players are able to set prices on resources, spaceships, among other things. It is a simulated market, but a market nonetheless, making things like scalping hypothetically feasible.

Yes.
Always have been.
The consoomer is a purely psychological phenomenon.

You got any books, articles or documentaries for recommendation that go further into this?

 

[XL xQgg?QcQCaTYDMjqoDnYpG]

Which is why I used Eve Online as an example, an MMO with a market where players are able to set prices on resources, spaceships, among other things. It is a simulated market, but a market nonetheless, making things like scalping hypothetically feasible.

True, EVE Online is a game in which players have the ability to trade items among each other. And some items, like seasonal items, are typically only available in limited supply. ... I was writing a long point here, but got lost in thought because I don't know the EVE Online market, so I tried to write an example based on real life goods

You got any books, articles or documentaries for recommendation that go further into this?

Afraid not, my forte is more in economics and philosophy rather than psychology and contemporary cultural analysis

 

[Skylavijas]

Welp regardless, take care mate, thanks for a fruitful discussion. I'll have to look into this on my own.

 

[Very Professional]

Wait... you're saying that all those instances of people standing in massive lines to get the latest iphone or some blokes buying up entire shelves of Magic the Gathering cards... it all is instigated on purpose by setting really low prices in conjunction of having limited availability, even if they're fully capable of doing so otherwise? Then that would mean that substantial part of the oddities recorded within the thread are a by-product of corporate psychological manipulation. Are most consoomers actually victims of psyops?

I'm not an economist but I've seen this phenomenon firsthand playing Magic and the answer is yes. There's a whole slew of scummy business practices and psychological tricks WotC uses to maintain the scarcity of certain necessary cards (I can elaborate more on this if you like but it's not immediately relevant) for two reasons. One: speculators buying boxes in bulk are one of their most lucrative demographics (the average consumer will never outspend a guy willing to buy an entire pallet of $150 boxes in hopes that he can resell them later). Two: it creates a sense of FOMO and encourages people with addictive personalities to spend more and spend often.

You would expect a sensible person to pride themselves on their canny purchasing, but MtG players are rarely sensible. An expensive, powerful deck is seen as a status symbol even if "spent a lot of money" shouldn't be a criteria to take pride in. The community and content bubble surrounding the game only exacerbates the issue. Even if no one directly encourages you to spend more (although I have unironically seen this happen), every time you find yourself losing a game to someone with The New Thing(TM) Wizards is banking on you wanting to spend. I've played the game my entire life and will admit I enjoy cracking packs now and then, even buying a box if I'm flush with cash, but that's because I enjoy low-risk gambling and am aware that it's wasteful so I usually don't do it in excess. I've known guys who are less canny, let's say, that have spent as much on the game in a few years as I have in 20+, even with my explicit warning that they should try to play on a shoestring budget and only spend strategically.

 

[Skylavijas]

I can elaborate more on this if you like but it's not immediately relevant

Sure, go ahead, perfect thread to do so

 

[Critical Raxx Theory]

As an aside. The same thing happens with Blacksmiths Anvils. Theres usually one guy within 5hrs drive (then theres another guys anvil territory) that buys up all the anvils. Literal barn full of anvils, selling 1 or 2 a year. You wait for this bastard to die, but the other anvil guys drive 6hrs and buy out the whole barn before the body is cold, under cover of darkness.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

If somebody had partaken in scalping of virtual goods, it would be Eve Online or some shit, the type of things people do in that game is mind boggling.

TF2 and CS:GO both have active scalper markets.

@Critical Raxx Theory True blacksmithing chads take an acetylene torch and steal a bit railroad track. It's Perfectly safe, trains can run over a missing track section without derailment.