Greer v. Moon, No. 20-cv-00647 (D. Utah Sep. 16, 2020)

[Laffs n Gaffs]

Even an official subpoena wouldn't get Greer anything because Null keeps minimal user data.

IP addresses are stored.

 

[StinkySnack]

IP addresses are stored.

Only for 30 days.

 

[Unknown God]

IP addresses are stored.

But only for a certain amount of time and those users haven't logged in for years.
edit: ninja'd, also wrong about moseph I guess

 

[StinkySnack]

But only for a certain amount of time and those users haven't logged in for years.

Moseph was active this year.

But I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; Russell will not be able to successfully unmask these users.

 

[Harvey Danger]

...and tampering with witnesses! Don't forget tampering with witnesses!

"Hardin didn't warn me he's subpoena'ing my family! Fight it! I'll sue!"

a few months later

"Hey Hardin here's a surprise subpoena at a time when no subpoena should be possible. What? Why are you complaining?"

 

[Sexy Potoo]

Hardin should file a motion to stay the motion to stay discovery so that the defendant can subpoena Greer's doctor to find out what the fuck is wrong with him.

 

[filthypenguin]

Let's say the court decides that, actually, Greer did nothing wrong and Moon must comply. Let's say that Moon doesn't have any info except for the email address tied to the account, which is "greerisaretard@protonmail.com." Supposing that he gives this to Greer, what's the next step? Can Greer serve them at that email? Supposing that the court allows that, what happens next? Russtard gets entered into the lawsuit without a name or address? What happens if they simply refuse to provide their identity? Can they still enter the lawsuit? What happens if they insist their name is "Greers A Retard," and give a fake address that's next door neighbors to Greer's fake address? How far could Rustard get in the case without giving a real name and address? Could he participate in discovery and file subpoenas? Could they file motions? If they lose or get sanctioned, is there any way that the court could get them to pay anything?

 

[Dizzyuntildeath]

Hardin should file a motion to stay the motion to stay discovery so that the defendant can subpoena Greer's doctor to find out what the fuck is wrong with him.

We already have those records; trauma lumps inside an eggshell skull.

 

[StinkySnack]

Let's say the court decides that, actually, Greer did nothing wrong and Moon must comply. Let's say that Moon doesn't have any info except for the email address tied to the account, which is "greerisaretard@protonmail.com." Supposing that he gives this to Greer, what's the next step? Can Greer serve them at that email? Supposing that the court allows that, what happens next? Russtard gets entered into the lawsuit without a name or address? What happens if they simply refuse to provide their identity? Can they still enter the lawsuit? What happens if they insist their name is "Greers A Retard," and give a fake address that's next door neighbors to Greer's fake address? How far could Rustard get in the case without giving a real name and address? Could he participate in discovery and file subpoenas? Could they file motions? If they lose or get sanctioned, is there any way that the court could get them to pay anything?

If the users have practiced good OPSEC, they don’t need to acknowledge or reply to jack-shit.

 

[DavidS877]

Can Greer serve them at that email?

In a normal case, probably not. In this case, probably.
They're supposed to take all due diligence to figure out a real address and then to verify the email is likely to reach the intended person. As was not done in the beginning of this case.

It seems more likely to be allowed when the person is known but evading regular service instead of a 'Doe'.

 

[YouTube Autist]

At this point im leaning towards willful and knowingly malicious practice. It's hard to be this retarded. Plus most of his retardation is of the face and not the brain, despite his actions proving otherwise.

inb4 "this isn't a discovery request, I just want to know who they are"

I think Greer's Greee's response to this will be along previous lines: 1) I honestly didn't mean to, I'm trying my best 2) It's not that big of a deal, it's a tiny little eeny weeny mistake, and 3) the defendants and the evil lawyer Matthew Hardin are murderers, and much worse by comparison. Then, after a while, he'll move on to 4) what I didn't wasn't actually against the rules at all.

 

[AnOminous]

I thought it was just me that was baffled by this stuff as well. What could a subpoena be for if it isn't for discovery? And is this how it normally works? You need the clerk of the court to issue one for you?

You do if you're pro se.

Did he trick the clerk into helping him issue a subpoena when he knew full well discovery is stayed? Is that what I'm reading?

Not really, he or she just did it. It's a routine ministerial duty and pretty much automatic. It isn't up to the clerk who issues these things (I am assuming some low-tier person in the office from that embarrassing apostrophe) to patrol the docket whenever receiving one of these requests from a pro se.

 

[RodgerDodger]

Is what he's done actually a major issue or just more pro-se acceptability? As in, is it against the rules of the court or otherwise unacceptable, or just in bad taste?


Greee wishes he was touched, so lets not use that.

The issue is once again Greer has violated an order of the court. On it's own it might be a trivial pro se retard thing. But on the same day or week the Judge finds out Greer has failed to produce the documents he has been repeatedly ordered to produce?

And once again Greer is a certified paralegal. He is professionaly familiar with the processes of the Court. Even if not a lawyer.

 

[filthypenguin]

If the users have practiced good OPSEC, they don’t need to acknowledge or reply to jack-shit.

In a normal case, probably not. In this case, probably.
They're supposed to take all due diligence to figure out a real address and then to verify the email is likely to reach the intended person. As was not done in the beginning of this case.

It seems more likely to be allowed when the person is known but evading regular service instead of a 'Doe'.

That's what I'm getting at. This case isn't normal, so there's a real possibility that Greer ends up getting the email address, and there's a real possibility that he is allowed to serve them at it. Assuming that happens, what if instead of ignoring it, Rustard decides to alog the court? Is there any way he could ever get the ability to file things to the docket, purely to fill it with pictures of Hitler, without ever revealing a name or address that can be verified?

 

[WelperHelper99]

What the fuck is Utah's problem where they blatantly disregard law? This entire process has become such a mockery and a shitshow. Does the judge not care? Do the courts not care? Are these morons in Utah just that apathetic? Do they seriously not see the legal rammifications already shaping up from their blunder (ISPs v Sony). Are they seriously bending over backwards for a "man" who has repeatedly defied and failed to produce evidence?

Let me explain Utah's legal system as a resident of this fine state. The Legislature: mega based. Its a supermajority, so the Governor (executive) is basically a figurehead if something actually needs to get passed. Things run efficiently here. The courts are where things are fucked. They have actively nullified laws, canceled shit, etc. Its not just Josh the Utah courts dont give a fuck about, they don't care much for their own state either.

 

[StinkySnack]

I would not put it past Bennett to use that as justification for service via email.

But how could the court enforce anything on the user if the email was registered, and only accessed, through a VPN?

 

[MugolEx]

IP addresses are stored.

TOR sisters stay winning!

 

[Terrifik]

Let's say the court decides that, actually, Greer did nothing wrong and Moon must comply. Let's say that Moon doesn't have any info except for the email address tied to the account, which is "greerisaretard@protonmail.com." Supposing that he gives this to Greer, what's the next step? Can Greer serve them at that email? Supposing that the court allows that, what happens next? Russtard gets entered into the lawsuit without a name or address? What happens if they simply refuse to provide their identity? Can they still enter the lawsuit? What happens if they insist their name is "Greers A Retard," and give a fake address that's next door neighbors to Greer's fake address? How far could Rustard get in the case without giving a real name and address? Could he participate in discovery and file subpoenas? Could they file motions? If they lose or get sanctioned, is there any way that the court could get them to pay anything?

True answer would be no discovery is stayed but, I expect no contest rule happen in this stupid lawsuit.

 

[AnOminous]

Judges really dislike misuse of subpoenas.

They really dislike anything that involves having to mess around with discovery at all because the parties are supposed to handle that between themselves like adults.

And he may have emailed it to the Clerk last night and they just filed it this morning.

They don't file them. They issue them. How the pro se party handles it after that is up to them and should not involve the court or someone's getting a spanking.

 

[filthypenguin]

Assuming the email addresses are not tied to their IRL identities, Greer would have to show traditional service is not reasonable and alternate service (email in this case) would reasonably provide notice to the defendant (source).

With @Russtard we have an account that has been inactive for years, there is no good reason to suspect the associated email address is still monitored or even extant after all that time. With @Moseph Jartelli we have an account that was active recently on a site that allows email address in place of username for logins. I would not put it past Bennett to use that as justification for service via email.

Well, lets say that happens, then, and the email provider is protonmail or similar where they don't save identifying info about the account. How far can Moseph get, as far as participating in the lawsuit goes, without ever actually being identified? To me, it looks like there's a very clear path to let someone join this case that is effectively unsanctionable by way of being anonymous.