Game Developers of Kiwi Farms

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I have a question to any developer Kiwi's, preferably ones that are quite knowledgeable about the game industry at large. Is there any truth to what this person is saying about the term 'live service'?

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No, his answer is just an example of the motte-and-bailey rhetorical tactic. That semantic-shifting snake's claimed definition of "live service game" - the motte from which he aims to defend the concept - is a game that has any live-service component at all. The bailey - the concept that he's supporting through his verbal trickery - is the definition that everyone else normally uses: a game that is no longer playable at all when its live-service component shuts down. It's the second definition that's implied by the term "live service game" itself, since otherwise it wouldn't be a live-service game, but instead a "game with a live service part".
 
I have a question to any developer Kiwi's, preferably ones that are quite knowledgeable about the game industry at large. Is there any truth to what this person is saying about the term 'live service'?
I feel like this is being disingenuous and re-framing a term which, game dev or not, there's a common interpretation of by the gaming community. Live service is a term used for games like overwatch, fortnite, apex, and even paid for games like call of duty. It probably doesn't explicitly need a battle pass to be live service, but I think that's the first thing that pops into people's heads when they hear the term. Live service to me doesn't imply dev support through bug fixes and such, but rather an aspect in the game that is used as a secondary revenue stream for the dev. Added content at a set price, but not dlc as there is no notion of FOMO with a separate content add-on.
 
I have a question to any developer Kiwi's, preferably ones that are quite knowledgeable about the game industry at large. Is there any truth to what this person is saying about the term 'live service'?

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The term "live service game" is mostly used to describe games with a heavy reliance on a unified, central and unreproducible server for most of the gameplay. His argument instantly falls apart the moment you examine it. Is every game that gets updates live service? Most people would agree they are not, however according to this retard you can call Terraria, Dwarf Fortress or Space Station 13 live service.

There is a clear difference between buying a game that gets updates and "having your liscense revoked" from Oldschool Guild Fantasy 45 Nigger of the Year edition for calling someone a faggot, or between buying a complete game that's not recieving new updates and losing all progress in OSGF45NotY because the server shut down due to failing to meet the yearly quota. No amount of wordplay will change this.

This guy is riding on a simple fact: People know a live service when they see it, but a strict definition is difficult to give. So he made the broadest strokes possible.

Games like Deathmatch Classic or Town of Salem are online only. Are they live service? Are games with peer-to-peer multiplayer or public server binaries live service? Most of them rely on a master/matchmaking server to connect people with eachother. So say for example that Valve's (Gold)Source master servers shut down. You would still be able to play CS1.6 with your friends online by hosting and port forwarding your own game server. But the service has ended, hasn't it? What about Steam itself? When Steam shuts down, all games that rely on it for online functionalities will lose it completely. Are the games themselves live service, or was that service Steam itself? Most people would agree that Counter Strike 2 is live service, but you will (most likely) be able to play it on a dedicated server long after the plug is pulled in Valve's headquarters.

Ironically, live service games are not called so because of online play. In a live service game skins, competitive modes, online-only play, microtransactions become as important as the story, controls, mechanics. The game is meant to be a time and money sink.
 
Thank you for the insight. I was just curious because apparently the term this developer uses instead of Live Service is 'Lifestyle games' and I have never heard that being used by any developer to describe any game they've worked on.

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'Lifestyle games'
I've heard this term used for stuff like fighting games in that you're basically dedicating a lot of time to not only learning your character but also all the possible matchups. You have to keep up with patch notes which can change how you play your character or if you drop/pick someone up. New characters come out to keep the game alive and fresh which if you're competitively minded then you're buying them to lab. You're dedicating years and money to a game which may also entice you to go out and find a community, go to tournaments, etc. Thus forming a synthesis between your lifestyle and the game itself. Could probably apply this to MOBAs too.
 
Thank you for the insight. I was just curious because apparently the term this developer uses instead of Live Service is 'Lifestyle games' and I have never heard that being used by any developer to describe any game they've worked on.

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Is there any evidence this guy actually works in 'the industry' besides how stupid he sounds?
 
Is there any evidence this guy actually works in 'the industry' besides how stupid he sounds?
I'm unsure if there's any absolute proof that they work in the game industry. They try to keep their identity a secret from what I can tell, though they semi-frequently talk about projects they worked on or how their coworkers dealt with executive in detail, so I doubt they're just making stuff up. They've been around for awhile though, maybe since 2015-ish?

I remember this dev getting upset when EA dropped the lootboxes from Battlefront 2 because they saw lootboxes as a monetization model that could be tweaked and adjusted to a point where players and companies could both flourish and didn't want them to become taboo. This dev puts way too much faith in Publishers to actually play nice with their customers.
 
What I do in Godot is design my levels inside blender more or less and then I wrote blender python scripts (they can be automated from the command line outside blender) to export them to gltf, then on the Godot side you can run code when importing assets, in there I wrote any code I need for my scenes to function in Godot. Blender is a far superior editor for almost everything in 3d compared to Godot so I try to use it when I can get away with it.
Late-ass reply, but would you be willing to share these scripts? I have a very similar workflow (Blender -> gltf -> Godot) and would really like to have something like this.
 
Late-ass reply, but would you be willing to share these scripts? I have a very similar workflow (Blender -> gltf -> Godot) and would really like to have something like this.
Python:
import bpy

name = bpy.path.basename(bpy.data.filepath).replace(".blend", "")
export_path = "./godot/assets/maps/" + name

bpy.ops.export_scene.gltf(
    filepath=export_path,
    # export_texture_dir='./textures/',
    export_format="GLB",
    check_existing=False,
    use_selection=False,
    use_visible=True,
    export_attributes=True,
    export_apply=True,
)

print("loaded from " + bpy.data.filepath)
print("exported to " + export_path)

Python:
import os
import subprocess

files = []
files.append("./blender/map1.blend") # can't move this one it breaks the linked assets

for file in os.listdir("./blender/maps/"):
    if file.endswith(".blend"):
        files.append("./blender/maps/" + file)

for file in os.listdir("./blender/maps/terrain/"):
    if file.endswith(".blend"):
        files.append("./blender/maps/terrain/" + file)

print(files)

for file in files:
    cmd = "blender " + file + " --background --python ./blender_export_maps.py"
    print("\n\n\n-----------------")
    print(file)
    print(cmd)
    subprocess.run(cmd.split(" "))
    print(file)
    print(cmd)
    print("-----------------\n\n\n")

in godot set the default asset import script to a custom gdscript, then you can do create_trimesh_collision() for each MeshInstance3D on the map
 
Looks like there's a sale on for 5,000 materials for $4 or 1,000 for $1.33. (note: there's a referral code for the youtuber who made me aware of it).
I Just purchased and checked out the materials briefly - some of the wooden and floor tiles are pretty decent.
It comes with relax GPL license so they can be used in commercial projects and setup to work with Blender out of the box with displacements, asset categories and noding.
If you take into account how long it would take to make one of them it's a great deal!
being honest i think you should download all of that shit to keep it saved somewhere, i say that because i just got swiped out of my windows server (theoretically speaking, i can still pirate it anyway) i bought from microsoft because the webstore containing the fucking packages+CD key went kaput and i took a while to redeem it, at least i have my windows 10 pro loicense though.

isn't it funny how these things teach you to data hoard stuff physically?
 
Looking to develop one of my projects into a fully fledged game. Which one sounds most promising?
  • A mobile roguelite (inspired by Vampire Survivors, etc)
  • A mario partyesque board game with rpg elements
  • A zelda/barony inspired RPG with puzzle elements
whatever seems within scope to prevent possible creep issues
 
Looking to develop one of my projects into a fully fledged game. Which one sounds most promising?
  • A mobile roguelite (inspired by Vampire Survivors, etc)
  • A mario partyesque board game with rpg elements
  • A zelda/barony inspired RPG with puzzle elements
just do all three, one at a time. atleast you will be more successful than yanderedev.
 
Is it really that hard to just make a simple FPS like Halo Combat Evolved with an interesting setting that takes itself seriously? No asset flips or store bought assets beyond placeholders, just developed as a hobby.

I dont mean 40k grimdark, just no immersion breaking narcissism from the developers injected into the story that seems extremely prevalent in the indie scene. Where they're more concerned over luring in more people to their dead discord servers than actually making the game. The few runaway hits don't ever do this and stay out of discordfag drama.
 
Is it really that hard to just make a simple FPS like Halo Combat Evolved with an interesting setting that takes itself seriously? No asset flips or store bought assets beyond placeholders, just developed as a hobby.

I dont mean 40k grimdark, just no immersion breaking narcissism from the developers injected into the story that seems extremely prevalent in the indie scene. Where they're more concerned over luring in more people to their dead discord servers than actually making the game. The few runaway hits don't ever do this and stay out of discordfag drama.
no? making a game is hard until you get what to do in it then it becomes a time consuming process.
i haven't looked at the other pages but i honestly recommend trying to mod games or even join gamejams because it will get many of the "hard" parts away as you will learn how to do shit then it's a matter of how long it will take for you to do something, with AI nowadays a ton of shit can be sped up but i still recommend look at basic tutorials and shit, it might take you a few weeks or even years to do your game but hey you will do it.
it's also why i have promised myself to not solo dev a project again unless it's for a gamejam or until AI advances more, else it's modding shit for funzies.
 
Is it really that hard to just make a simple FPS like Halo Combat Evolved with an interesting setting that takes itself seriously? No asset flips or store bought assets beyond placeholders, just developed as a hobby.
a cube running around shooting something at other cubes can be learned over a weekend.
making it look like halo with the same scale will take several hundred weekends when doing it alone.
 
Looking to develop one of my projects into a fully fledged game. Which one sounds most promising?
  • A mobile roguelite (inspired by Vampire Survivors, etc)
  • A mario partyesque board game with rpg elements
  • A zelda/barony inspired RPG with puzzle elements
The Mario party game. The market is saturated with 1 and 3. You'll get clowned on if you make a millennial type of Zelda/roguelite game.
 
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