DC Comics Multimedia General - A crisis of infinite fuck ups

[Overly Serious]

yeah it's actually kind of funny in those terms, because the 1960s show sort of has him more in line with what Jason was by the time we got him, but exclusively during fights. The rest of the time he was goofy ass Dick Grayson cracking jokes and just enjoying himself. It really is hilarious, it's like a totally unintentional show within the show, that Robin is just a psychopath. I'm serious watch any compilation of fights from that show and watch Robin, he does 20* as much damage as Batman ever does.

In the old Adam West shows I imagine the thinking was that Robin was supposed to be the "Boy wonder" and therefore couldn't fight with the strength of Batman and had to use improvised tools and techniques. Which were convenient chairs. I don't know but it's funny you point this out.

I know I'm probably the only person on the planet who felt this way, but I overall liked the Titans show as a weird ass elseworlds thing. I felt that Dick's characterization while not what I would want out of that character, worked for the most part. and the show was at times so mean spirited and edgy try hard throughout the run I just thought it was entertaining.

Titans was my bete noir - a bad thing done well. There's more and more of that these days. Structurally something is flawed, or the characters or concepts are soulless. But the direction and production values have become so good that the crappy essence of what they're making is obscured by these things... almost.

Fight scenes, the blend of realism with comic book action, the absurdly serious way it took itself. And yes, even some decent cast (mostly). Good stuff. On the other hand, a frankly sadistic relish in its character's suffering, Starfire (utterly insufferable) and terrible elements.

I will also never forgive it for chickening out of the originally planned Doom Patrol cross over. All we got was a few teasers in one episode.

My biggest issue with it was there was no fucking world I would buy that old actor playing Bruce was still suiting up as Batman every night.

I think he was supposed to be older Bruce Wayne who whilst far from finished was not a young man anymore. Pretty sure that was deliberate. And I thought the actor had great presence. He was a much better Bruce Wayne than the Nolan version or the Keaton version (yes, I don't care if that upsets someone).

But I stopped watching it. I never made the transition you did into enjoying it because of its flaws. It just became unpleasant to me in the things it did like some of the torture scenes. And to bring it back to the Robins, its Tim Drake was deeply unlikeable.

 

[el bandito loco]

Titans was my bete noir - a bad thing done well.

exactly my sentiments

I will also never forgive it for chickening out of the originally planned Doom Patrol cross over. All we got was a few teasers in one episode.

the end of the show is a full on doom patrol crossover where beast boy goes full circle and apparently succeeds animal man as the avatar of the red, which was also odd because they just drop that information as if any casual watching it would even know what the fuck that means. I was watching it with my friend and had to explain all of that for like 30 minutes after.

And I thought the actor had great presence. He was a much better Bruce Wayne than the Nolan version or the Keaton version (yes, I don't care if that upsets someone).

I thought he was good, but they should have just made him retired Batman, I think part of the problem is they insisted on outside of that dream sequence episode early on never showing Batman doing whatever he's doing in the series so it made the juxtaposition more intense for me that I did not believe this guy was still out doing Batman stuff, and apparently the creators didn't either since they insisted on not having a stunt guy at least do it, so it felt reinforcing to that for me. Had we had more Batman himself I bet id have felt differently. I don't think I'd go so far as to say he feels more like Bruce to me than Keaton, (in Returns at least, he doesn't really come across as what I think of as Bruce Wayne in the first one, and the flash movie doesn't count) but he definitely was good and closer than Bale was by the second and third movie.

All in all Titans is a strange case of a bunch of decisions I disagree with in a lot of major ways but seemingly made by people who really wanted to make those weird decisions. I give it credit for at least trying things, and being interesting, even if I think it probably wasn't the right property for their specific sensibilities. It's got a lot in common with Snyder's movies in that regard, and not only because they're weirdly dark for what they are and Batman-wanking DC things.

I'd take it over Batwoman or Gotham Knights any day, and probably over the majority of MCU D+ shows, seeing as I actually watched all 4 or 5 years of titans and have only actually finished like 3 of those.

 

[namelesstacotruck]

Gunn seems like he knows the new DCU is going to flop. "I am ok with just hitting a double" with a movie that they bet the farm on?

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/superman-director-james-gunn-dc-studios-interview-1235356450/

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

Titans did have some legit good moments. Some of the Deathstroke stuff was done well, a lot of the fight scenes were solid, when Dick is allowed to act like Dick Grayson the actor really does nail it, I loved Superboy even when he shaved his head to go through his Lex arc, Brother Blood was engaging prior to him becoming Trigon or whatever; and I thought the whole story leading up to Hawk's death was well done. Superboy figuring out how to disarm the bomb a split-second too late, Hank having heart-to-hearts with everyone as he accepts his fate, Krypto staying to comfort him, ect.

Bullshit with Jason's dumb plan to make Dove trigger the detonator by hiding it in the gun he was banking on her shooting him with (yes, Jason Todd made a trap based around punishing a hero for trying to shoot the mass murderer whose about to kill the love of her life) aside.

Hell, season 3 even had a Starfire scene I liked. Starfire blindly charges into a situation, ends up getting an innocent man executed by his mother for petty reasons, and in her rage kills said mother, killing the entire reason she came into the situation in the first place and thus makes the man's death even more pointless.

But still... 80% is entertainingly bad.

Nothing will ever top the show trying to unironically thinking Wheelchair-bound Barbara Gordon fist fighting Lady Vic was anything except hilarious:

Second place goes to Blackfire getting built up as a major threat in season 2, declaring her plans to invade Earth after she's taken over Tamaran and killed their parents, her hatred of Kori'ander and how she won't rest until she's the only member of the royal family left... Only for her to show up in season 3 and reveal that she got kicked off the planet she took over, went to Earth, got mugged by the government and locked away in a cell, and now doesn't care about getting the throne anymore; all happening off screen in between seasons. She kind of easily patches things up with her sister, gives Superboy some of that black kryptonite and then sits around until she can get a spaceship and fuck off.

Also, having sex makes her fart purple gas for reasons that are never explained.

And I can't stop laughing at the scene where Bruce comes back from killing the joker and throws the crowbar down at Dick's feet with a petulant sounding 'There. I've done it. You can be batman now'. Man just committed a murder and sounds like a kid pissed off taht he has to let his brother play the xbox too.

the end of the show is a full on doom patrol crossover where beast boy goes full circle and apparently succeeds animal man as the avatar of the red, which was also odd because they just drop that information as if any casual watching it would even know what the fuck that means. I was watching it with my friend and had to explain all of that for like 30 minutes after.

I remember being so confused at that part. You have Beast Boy suddenly developing the ability to hop through the multiverse and the Scripts superhero song playing in the background celebrating it like it's this big moment that pays off all the build up of Gar's character when it sort of just comes out of nowhere. Gar having visions where animal man tells him that the red is important doesn't not count.

 

[Flaming Carrot]

tbh Thanos is an old enough character that I assumed Starlin got the princely sum of jack and shit each time Purple Scrote (Marvel) shows up in things, so a royalty payment of some nachos would probably outdo whatever Disney gave him

From what I've read, DC doesn't have a lot official agreements for royalties over characters appearing in movies. They just started giving people checks during the 80s after Jeanette Kahn and Paul Levitz started running the place. I don't think anyone knows what the formula is for determine who gets how much money, but I know it's a whole lot more than what Marvel gives people. For example, Len Wein said he made more money from creating Lucius Fox than he did from creating Wolverine.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

From what I've read, DC doesn't have a lot official agreements for royalties over characters appearing in movies. They just started giving people checks during the 80s after Jeanette Kahn and Paul Levitz started running the place. I don't think anyone knows what the formula is for determine who gets how much money, but I know it's a whole lot more than what Marvel gives people. For example, Len Wein said he made more money from creating Lucius Fox than he did from creating Wolverine.

I vaguely recall something about somebody involved in the 80s Super Powers line, maybe Kirby? Ditko? who was brought in to do vague design things but it was basically to get him back for royalties but without admitting royalties for legal reasons?

 

[Captain Syrup]

Batman but with guns" or "Robin but he kills guys" is more appealing to those dudes,

Jason Todd and Shadow the Hedgehog are respected for literally the same things, they died once and suddenly they're allowed to dual-wield Glocks and talk about how “trust is a weakness.”

 

[el bandito loco]

And I can't stop laughing at the scene where Bruce comes back from killing the joker and throws the crowbar down at Dick's feet with a petulant sounding 'There. I've done it. You can be batman now'. Man just committed a murder and sounds like a kid pissed off taht he has to let his brother play the xbox too.

I forgot all about that, my lady was doing something in the same room when that episode came out and looked up when it was over and was like "so, he fucking killed him? that seems like the biggest development possible for one of these Batman movies and it didn't even seem important" and I told her basically with this particular show she'd have to watch more of it to see what I mean but you've really got to expect the unexpected with how they handle anything they do.

Jason Todd and Shadow the Hedgehog are respected for literally the same things, they died once and suddenly they're allowed to dual-wield Glocks and talk about how “trust is a weakness.”

It's manly. Trusting in others, and not carrying around giant pistols with no safety on em is for queers like Sonic & Batman.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

queers like Sonic & Batman.

little kids hung out with by Sonic and Batman?
MANY!

 

[el bandito loco]

In the old Adam West shows I imagine the thinking was that Robin was supposed to be the "Boy wonder" and therefore couldn't fight with the strength of Batman and had to use improvised tools and techniques. Which were convenient chairs. I don't know but it's funny you point this out.

you know, I don't know that they'd even really have thought about it this much, but if there is any actual thinking explanation, this is a really good one and I'd never have reached it myself.

every now and then Batman fights like that too, but for the most part it is just Robin doing it. I do distinctly remember somewhere in that show, they both grab a chair and wack somebody with them at the same time. I'd like to see modern serious Batman and Robin beat thugs up with various props sometime there's something inherently funny about ultra martial arts masters whacking a guy upside the head with a chair like a WWF fight.

I think the reason it's always stuck in my head forever is just how hilarious it is imagining you're some thug and Batman is taking out your cohorts and he's got some psychotic kid with him breaking flower pots over your head and throwing tables at you.

I get why people hate that show so much and always have but even since I was a little dude I've always thought its legitimately one of the funniest shows I've ever seen. every time I go back and watch an episode I catch little stuff that's just hysterical.

little kids hung out with by Sonic and Batman?
MANY!

Chris tHornDyke and Dick Grayson..... hmm even their names are suspicious.

 

[Overly Serious]

he end of the show is a full on doom patrol crossover where beast boy goes full circle and apparently succeeds animal man as the avatar of the red, which was also odd because they just drop that information as if any casual watching it would even know what the fuck that means. I was watching it with my friend and had to explain all of that for like 30 minutes after.

Granted. You get the partial cross-over in the end but it's only partial. There are stills out there from the aborted original with Rita and Starfire, etc. They actually filmed some of it. I don't recall why they changed their minds. Doom Patrol - now there is a show that started off very strong and took a weird path in later seasons.

All in all Titans is a strange case of a bunch of decisions I disagree with in a lot of major ways but seemingly made by people who really wanted to make those weird decisions. I give it credit for at least trying things, and being interesting, even if I think it probably wasn't the right property for their specific sensibilities. It's got a lot in common with Snyder's movies in that regard, and not only because they're weirdly dark for what they are and Batman-wanking DC things.

I'd take it over Batwoman or Gotham Knights any day, and probably over the majority of MCU D+ shows, seeing as I actually watched all 4 or 5 years of titans and have only actually finished like 3 of those.

Yeah - there was some strong comics-cred and loyalty in a lot of it, I'll give it that. Batwoman gets points for having good looking women in it and negative points for everything else you can possibly name. Including nearly crippling Ruby Rose.

I like Ruby Rose and it amuses me that for all that I hate gender-swapping characters as much as anybody else, I've never seen anybody who'd be such a natural fit to play the Joker as Ruby Rose.




I don't even just mean looks, though I think in white make-up she'd be an amazing fit. I think acting wise seeing her cut loose and go over the top she'd actually be great. And she has action experience too from John Wick, Batwoman, etc. The only flaw is that the Joker should be tall and she's medium height for a woman, around 5'7". But I'd compromise on that.

Don't come at me about gender-swapping: I agree with everyone else that it's 99% bad and DEI driven. But this is a non-DEI driven idea. I just look at her and can see it.

(This is not my thinly disguised fetish)

Nothing will ever top the show trying to unironically thinking Wheelchair-bound Barbara Gordon fist fighting Lady Vic was anything except hilarious:

The things I missed by stopping watching! Shiva should wipe the floor with even prime Barbara Gordon. Let alone one with limited mobility.

I get why people hate that show so much

Wait - Adam West's Batman TV show? People hate it? It was superb.

 

[TheAmbiguousLurker]

The things I missed by stopping watching! Shiva should wipe the floor with even prime Barbara Gordon. Let alone one with limited mobility.

Not Shiva, Lady Vic(tim), the British assassin lady, usually a Nightwing antagonist. Still, yeah, Barbara should stand no chance in a straight up brawl. You can see how often the actress has to pause and lean into Barbara's strikes just to have anything land. Literally all she has to do is go around and just shove the girl out of the wheelchair.

You also missed season 4 where the key to the main villain's plan to remake the world is getting Superboy to publish his Candy Crush rip-off on the app store. I am only slightly exaggerating. And then, after the main villain gets a powerup that allows him to explode the head of everyone in a building because he's become an all powerful God that only Starfire can destroy; he still gets jumped by Dick and Tim in a fist fight.

 

[Overly Serious]

Not Shiva, Lady Vic(tim), the British assassin lady, usually a Nightwing antagonist. Still, yeah, Barbara should stand no chance in a straight up brawl. You can see how often the actress has to pause and lean into Barbara's strikes just to have anything land. Literally all she has to do is go around and just shove the girl out of the wheelchair.

Oh, heh. My bad - Speed Reading FTW! I can't entirely be blamed though. Lady Vic is the blandest of villains. Magpie has more depth and her character is basically "steals things".

You also missed season 4 where the key to the main villain's plan to remake the world is getting Superboy to publish his Candy Crush rip-off on the app store. I am only slightly exaggerating. And then, after the main villain gets a powerup that allows him to explode the head of everyone in a building because he's become an all powerful God that only Starfire can destroy; he still gets jumped by Dick and Tim in a fist fight.

Ah, no - that I did see. I dipped in and out of the show for a bit. This was the guy who was Raven's elder brother who was rejected for being a boy. Or something like that. The actor was good that I recall, until he suddenly had to become over the top supervillain.

I'll give the show this: they did a decent job of trying to make all characters valid and important despite having someone on the team who was invulnerable, super-strong, moved at super-speed was a super-genius on his Luthor's side. Though even they couldn't pull off making Beast Boy relevant. Eventually he had a big dramatic moment where he turned into a bat. Possibly the silliest moment in the entire run.

"How can we make Beast Boy matter? We've been trying for four seasons now."
"I have an idea - what if we just give him the ability to jump dimensions? Hand me that red lens filter, will you?"

EDIT:

Spoiler: Funniest shit you ever saw

 

[Idiotron]

I think acting wise seeing her cut loose and go over the top she'd actually be great.

She doesn't know how to "cut loose".
She's a model like Gadot and she has similar acting skills.

 

[Humble Architect]

She doesn't know how to "cut loose".
She's a model like Gadot and she has similar acting skills.

Also, like Gal Gadot, fucking grotesque.

 

[XYZpdq Jr.]

turned into a bat.

ah, the hovering bat
an all time classic

 

[Overly Serious]

ah, the hovering bat
an all time classic

You know, amidst the make-up, the acting, the dramatic music and the fact that his grand moment is turning into a bat, I entirely overlooked that bats cannot hover.

 

[el bandito loco]

In my recent on a whim reading of like 500 random Batman and related issues from all eras, I read Steve Englehart's famous Batman run from the 1970s for the first time since I was in middle school or something. The one that the Laughing Fish, Silver St. Cloud, Rupert Thorn, the modern Hugo Strange and Dr. Phosphorus all come from.

It's great. It has some problems, but overall it holds up. It's interesting just how many different flavors of Batman are sort of rolled together into one piece without feeling inconsistent across it's 8 issues or whatever it is.

Now, it is a hugely influential run and it shows when you look back at it. But I'm not sure if this is common knowledge and only I didn't know this, or what but Steve Englehart himself is hilarious because he seems to believe every single Batman thing ever since is exclusively him. Comics and other media.

He did uncredited work on the script for '89, but claims it's exactly the story from this run, but they changed Thorn and St. Cloud's names to Grissom and Vicki Vale to not pay him. Which, that doesn't even make sense. Thorn is a city council president, and not a crime boss and St Cloud is a event planner and not a journalist. They aren't even similar characters to who he claims is name switches besides ones a bad guy and the other is batman's girlfriend. It has almost nothing in common with this run, besides maybe some tonal stuff and the type of portrayal of the Joker. He also claims that the Dark Knight is based on his sequels to this run from the mid 2000s, (Batman Dark Detective) and that they at the last minute when his scripts got turned in, rewrote it's final act to rip him off when they had already filmed half the movie or something.

Sure, the DNA of his Batman run is in later stuff, but nowhere near the level of direct swiping he claims. It's more likely mild influence, or really pulling from things he influenced that came later so they wouldn't necessarily be looking at him specifically. Anyways I just find it humorous because he also seems to believe the reason his run isn't constantly in print in trades and stuff is some conspiracy so nobody notices the movies are his story exactly, which they just aren't.

He's also oddly focused on the idea that he was the first person to have Batman have sex. Which, he probably was. But the fact he thinks everything after is owed to him because of that idea is absurd. Does he believe if he didn't do it, as comics kept aging up literally nobody would ever give Batman a girlfriend who he is explicitly shown waking up next to ever? He's always saying stuff like "Batman had girlfriends, but they never had sex. They were just there for Bruce Wayne to keep up appearances. Without me, Batman wouldn't have ever had sex" but he says shit like that entirely confident and unironically.

 

[Humble Architect]

Honestly, if Bruce Wayne isn’t playing up his chad retard persona, then I prefer Batman being a bit……. off in the romance department. Battinson did that real well, where the idea of connection was like he got a whiff of chlorine gas.

The Bruce Wayne stuff should be superficiality personified (Year One did this excellently) but as Bats, he shouldn’t be Mr Slick like the Timmverse self-insert.

Long and short, pre-development Batman should be one of the least sex-interested people on the planet and Selina doing her thing should trigger a “WHAT’S HAPPENING,” response in his stubborn head.

 

[el bandito loco]

Honestly, if Bruce Wayne isn’t playing up his chad retard persona, then I prefer Batman being a bit……. off in the romance department. Battinson did that real well, where the idea of connection was like he got a whiff of chlorine gas.

The Bruce Wayne stuff should be superficiality personified (Year One did this excellently) but as Bats, he shouldn’t be Mr Slick like the Timmverse self-insert.

Long and short, pre-development Batman should be one of the least sex-interested people on the planet and Selina doing her thing should trigger a “WHAT’S HAPPENING,” response in his stubborn head.

Personally, I don't really mind either way it just kind of depends on what type of story it's in. I like both the total freak, weird but not quite sexless, just stunted Batman sort of like the Pattinson movie, and I also like James Bond Batman who goes through women as Bruce Wayne and Batman alike semi-regularly and he might have a true love in Selina or Talia or something but he doesn't really want a commitment because he's busy being Batman so he probably ducks out after sex to go back to work beating up henchmen with his son all night. Maybe someday he'll settle down with Catwoman but only because he knows she'll know she comes second to him being Batman and wouldn't bother him about it.

What I don't like is "I'd give up Batman for love" Bruce that you see occasionally, or just wants a steady girlfriend in general Bruce. Both of those suck.

My personal Batman is probably somewhere in the middle of the first two, but because my personal take on the character is less of Bruce or Batman is the mask and one is the man, and more they're both masks, and he's a third dude who is something between the two.