Off-Topic Random Trans Thoughts, Musings, and Questions - For all your armchair psych and general sperging

[Trapper]

How would you get men to care about trans issues?

Even if they don’t care about women, most of them draw the line at transitioning kids. Point out how their insurance or tax money is funding the unnecessary surgeries, meanwhile they can’t see a doctor for a medical problem. Find all the ways they’re being ripped off by this movement too, because no one is free from it. Ultimately most people are selfish, and care only when they realise they’re being duped in some way.

I think part of the problem is some men are getting mixed signals, with some women anti-trans and some complete handmaidens, a lot of the time they’ll just go along with whatever their girlfriend/wife thinks and not think about it too much. Just got to accept not everyone will care about issues you’re interested in and move on, while fighting for your causes as best you can.

 

[Elbe]

It's almost as if male and female are different.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/articles/cy0wde9pr4yo

 

[Not A Bunny]

Me having a dumb fight with people on the internet because I'm bored:

Dumb wokie #1: I don't care if trans women use women's bathrooms. They've never bothered me.

Me (to Dumb wokie #1): So if a Muslim woman cares, who do you side with?

Dumb wokie #2: I side with whoever is more marginalized.
Dumb wokie #1: Islam is oppressive, so I don't side with them. Also, I've been harassed by many cis men, but never any trans women.

Me (to Dumb wokie #2): Fuck off with being marginalized. That's a completely arbitrary standard in who has it worse. If y'all want equity so badly, you must take into consideration the opinions of women equally.

Me (to Dumb wokie #1): So, are you saying you'd take away the opinions of a woman who is already oppressed to start with? Not very feminist of you. Also, by the way, the declaration of being a woman doesn't erase the presence of a male body in the space of women who don't want it there.

Personally, and I know this would never take off, but I'm going to put it out in the universe: it should be a rule of polite society that we should go back to the days of grade school where girls gatekeep attractiveness. If the women in the room don't agree that they are comfortable with an obvious man in their space, he is not trans, he is a man in a dress, and the tranny has to accept it.

And by the way, fucking feminists, it is extremely pro-woman to give them the power in this situation. A male body should not be able to declare "I'm a woman" and then claim marginalization to basically oppress women and invalidate their opinions.

 

[Izdaja Slika]

How would you get men to care about trans issues? It's no secret most of the rabidly anti-trans people out there are actual women. This subforum was under the salon up until recently after all.

The whole debate is mostly centered around women and the effects on them. I hate to break it to anyone who isn't aware, but that's not a winning strategy for getting men to care.

In what universe is that not a winning strategy? Women-as-victim-class persuades the feelings of many men. Why, after 2,000 years of no actual democracy and no franchise, that all women got the right to vote within less than 50 years of all men having the right to vote? Because women asked men.

As a man I can tell you we're told to care about so many issues using similar arguments that most of us don't end up giving a shit.

The easiest route would be to focus on how trans acceptance can negatively affect men. Problem is, it doesn't really.

The problem is, it really fucking does.

The idea of gender affirmation leave is on the cards at my workplace. Paid leave to affirm your gender.

At work, I can get into trouble, both formally and informally, if I dared use male pronouns for the transwoman on the team.

In my jurisdiction, the State can punish me if I 'misgender' somebody online or 'in public'.

In my country, single-sex spaces are forbidden by law. You can have men's or women's events....as long as you accept anyone who calls themselves that into your space.

I reject that it 'doesn't affect men'.

What's talked about a lot here (or was) is how TRA are basically MRA

They're not. I'm a men's rights advocate but I'm sure the FUCK not a trans rights advocate.

and that many trans women will talk about their pasts as incels and MRA types online before becoming trans - a lot of the goals of trans rights are also beneficial to conservative men (silencing women politically, making it harder for women to participate in public life - the 'urine leash' was a problem tying women to the home before access to public bathrooms, women's political representation is taken by trans, sporting awards etc)

That's absurd. Conservative men are fare more likely to be anti-trans than liberal, leftist men.

It's even more absurd that you think conservative men would rather a man LARPing as a woman to take a sporting achievement or a political position than an actual woman to have taken it. Have you ever spoken to a single conservative man who said this or implied it?

 

[Tragon Dirtle]

women asked men.

Asked. Right, because all the women for hundreds of years before that were just too stupid to ask. I'm not going to bother responding to rest of it because you literally haven't understood what I said.

 

[Izdaja Slika]

Asked. Right, because all the women for hundreds of years before that

All the women for hundreds of years before that didn't ask for the franchise because men didn't have the franchise either.

were just too stupid to ask. I'm not going to bother responding to rest of it because you literally haven't understood what I said.

You don't understand the history of the franchise and you obviously don't understand men's rights advocates, trans rights advocates, or conservative men for you to have typed what you typed.

 

[healing rain]

View attachment 7526189
EDIT to not double post:

Another appropriate screenshot:
View attachment 7526192

I went off on a bit of a tangent here, but to play devil's advocate, the strongest argument I've seen for surgical intervention is for matters of the tranny's personal safety, i.e. not getting jumped by a gaggle of "youths" while walking around the city at night for being an obvious man in a dress. But even this stance is debatable for several reasons:

1) As stated, none of that has anything to do with the activists' creed on gender.

1.5) Even if you appeal to the idea of a tranny trying to align their body with their self-image, how does this make them any different from bog-standard dysmorphics or anorexics?​

2) Most of us live in civilized countries where very few people have the requisite desire or aggression to curbstomp a random tranny minding his own business, nor would the law enable someone to get away with such an action scot-free.
3) Hormones and a jaw shave aren't enough to eradicate or overshadow your other obvious sex markers.
4) Ugly women exist and must navigate our unkind world just like everybody else, yet you don't see the government subsidizing cosmetic surgeries for them.
5) Maybe make an effort to actually blend in like you said you wanted to and not dress like a prostitute.

Spoiler: sperging about stealth trannies

I understand some trannies think that medical butchery will enable them to "go stealth," but I imagine walking the walk is actually incredibly stressful. These people will sever lifelong bonds just because having people that knew them before they transitioned aggravates their dysphoria or whatever.

So you're able to get your euphoria boners from superficial shit like being honked at in the street or a man following basic social etiquette like holding a door open for you. But what happens when you want to connect with someone on a deeper level? Do you fabricate an entire childhood about being a true and honest girl? Do you awkwardly laugh along and pretend to relate when your natal female friends bond over common experiences that you were never privy to? What are you going to do when the poor sod you suckered into a relationship learns he's been sticking his dick in a surgically constructed crotch wound instead of a vagina and decides to beat you to death right then and there? The fags on r/StraightTransGirls love hypermasculine men, after all.

 

[Lovely Kin]

Question: At what moment did you think regular people went "Enough is enough"? We all know they weren't fully comfortable with troons, drag queens, etc. I always felt like it was between trooning out children and the kid shows was when it started brewing, but troons in women sports was what really pushed it.

 

[Not A Bunny]

Question: At what moment did you think regular people went "Enough is enough"? We all know they weren't fully comfortable with troons, drag queens, etc. I always felt like it was between trooning out children and the kid shows was when it started brewing, but troons in women sports was what really pushed it.

From Charles Mackay and later paraphrased by Sting:

1. Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.
   Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841)

There wasn't a single moment. There was a whole lot of seething under the surface about having to accept this crap because they knew it was wrong, they just didn't have the vocabulary or the mental acuity to establish the what, or how to articulate it. Easy to understand that, I mean, it's all frog-boiling, really. Acceptance is good, right? We should be able to accept people that are different if we are good people.

And then they ask you to accept a little more...and then a little more...and then a little more.

People slowly grew uncomfortable and disquieted over what they were asked to accept. Even if they didn't know what was brewing in their heads, they knew something was wrong. They just needed one person to step up and say no, and give them the right words to characterize that no in a way that made their feelings make sense.

I think, for instance, it depended on where you were at and what affected you. If your daughter was an athlete, it was probably Lia Thomas. If your child is young and your teacher is a "Mx." or there are "queer" books in your kids' libraries and suddenly everyone in your kid's friend group is some flavor of queer, that's it for you. If you're a woman and you were in the restroom, and there's someone who is obviously a guy there, and while you didn't feel like they would physically hurt you, you were being degraded by his presence because he was too physically imposing for you to say "no" and "get out" to, there you go.

Immigration really wasn't the only invasion America is facing. It's also the queer mob and they came for your women and children, either intimidating or indoctrinating them. And isn't that funny, that their points of attack on people are in fact on women and children, never on men, or in men's spaces. I could laugh my head off just thinking about it.

 

[on kiwifarms]

What are you going to do when the poor sod you suckered into a relationship learns he's been sticking his dick in a surgically constructed crotch wound instead of a vagina and decides to beat you to death right then and there?

It's not possible for a stinkditch to ever pass as a real vagina. Visually, maybe: once you get your dick in there, no way. I've never fucked a tranny but I've read accounts from men (and lesbians) who have had that unfortunate experience. A stinkditch doesn't clench, doesn't self-lubricate, it's just there. It's a wound between their legs, the only way anyone could ever be fooled by it is if they'd never fucked a woman before.

 

[hdr22@clintonemail•com]

TRAs counterpoint to this would be "Not everyone gets bottom surgery. Some trans people are perfectly ok with just taking HRT to affirm their gender. Other trans people choose to not pursue hormones and get gender affirming clothing." Honestly, if being a woman is how the individual sees themselves then shouldn't people use TRA's own logic against them and say "Well, the way I and most people see women is an adult human female and since trans women aren't female then I don't see them as women." Of course aside from the usual "You're a bigot" if you don't agree with this, I have noticed that TRAs resort to guilt tripping people by going "I don't care how little it makes sense! I don't want kids to kill themselves and if gender affirming care saves these kids lives then so be it." At this point, the TRA strategy now is guilt tripping people.

I've literally been told: "This isn't about logic, it's about people's lives" and "I don't care if it's illogical; nobody needs to justify their existence to you." What the fuck? Doesn't sound like a good foundation for long-term acceptance, frankly...

 

[hdr22@clintonemail•com]

Question: At what moment did you think regular people went "Enough is enough"? We all know they weren't fully comfortable with troons, drag queens, etc. I always felt like it was between trooning out children and the kid shows was when it started brewing, but troons in women sports was what really pushed it.

Sometime around the manufactured rise of Dylan Mulvaney, a marginally talented twink flamer, was given a Woman of the Year Award at a live ceremony, a special edition Bud Light can, and a sit-down interview with the president (keep in mind how hard it was to get an interview with POTATUS)... all within a year of trooning out. He released a memoir and a pop single.

But why? What has this person ever actually done? You can't even say he's an activist within his own group; he was such a neophyte when he started recording his 'days of girlhood' (not womanhood, of course) videos that he did things like awkwardly try to play with Barbies, weigh the relative merits of various techniques to hide (or not hide) his bulge, and congratulate himself on being a true woman by virtue of 'writing a long angry email but not sending it'.

Obviously Dylan himself didn't cause the collapse in public support for troonery. But he was emblematic of how absurd the excesses had become: he is cartoonishly shallow in his commitment to 'girlhood' and embodies a litany of stereotypes of what people can't stand about troonery. And yet this person, before even living as a woman for a year, is being given marquee awards, interviewing the president, and being lavished with deals for books, music, and more? It was so downright fucking irritating that the right-wing successfully staged a revolt against Budweiser over the stupid beer can (a successful boycott is extremely rare) while progressives twiddled their thumbs and decided they'd allow that one to slide without hurling accusations of bigotry.

He wasn't the cause of mass peak-troonery. But he's symbolic of its cultural excesses. (*Cultural, as opposed to policy excesses or excesses of theory).

 

[Meth Reindeer]

How would you get men to care about trans issues?

Same way you get men to care about women's issues: Have women close to them voice their worries. Granted that doesn't work well for the terminally online with no female contact beyond their moms. You can also appeal to men at the logical level about how philosophically ridiculous things are. I'd wager most men I know aren't pro-trans, they're just mostly ambivalent, if pushed they'd clearly agree there's a difference between a trans-woman and a woman.

By threatening them that if this shit is allowed to go on any further they will one day find themselves balls deep in some guy's rotpocket during a random hookup.

This also works, but probably not on the more desperate types. For them you could probably emphasize that it's gay, and show them SRS imagery and make a point about them sticking their dick in another dudes dick. If that doesn't dissuade them, then let them goon in peace and fuck up their lives believing lies.

 

[Feels Badman]

Question: At what moment did you think regular people went "Enough is enough"? We all know they weren't fully comfortable with troons, drag queens, etc. I always felt like it was between trooning out children and the kid shows was when it started brewing, but troons in women sports was what really pushed it.

How would you get men to care about trans issues? It's no secret most of the rabidly anti-trans people out there are actual women. This subforum was under the salon up until recently after all.

Troons in women's sports is just so inherently unfair that even normal, non terminally online men have brought it up to me unprompted. It's this issue that's gotten so many people to say enough is enough. If they knew about transing kids it would have been that, but juvenile gender clinic appointments aren't televised. Sports are public and highly visible, and most normies care about them on some level. The basic principles of sportsmanship are something most men have firsthand experience with, and value inherently. Normie men who haven't heard anything else about trannies have heard about the sports issue, and they usually have a negative opinion on it.

If they have daughters, they have a reason to care about troons in women's bathrooms. No father in his right mind would want his underage daughter in a bathroom with a grown man, no matter how that man identifies. Most men wouldn't want their wife or girlfriend in that position either, but fathers almost universally will put their kids' safety above random strangers' emotions.

 

[Chieftain Coke Peanut]

Same way you get men to care about women's issues: Have women close to them voice their worries.

These days discounting men without girlfriends, wives, or daughters is losing a significant portion of the population. Sad but true.

I think part of the problem is how criticizing trans ideology makes you a lightning rod for criticism. Normies can atleast understand a woman complaining about a troon beating her in an athletic competition has grounds to complain if they aren't totally pozzed. A man arguing against trans ideology doesn't have that same foundation. To some it'll look like their being misogynistic and punching down. I think a lot of people who haven't peaked are genuinely fine with trans people as long as they're out of sight and out of mind.

Either case it doesn't really help since there's a legion of terminally online people slobbering over the potential to ruin your life if you cross them.

 

[Paper Machete]

Everything woke is anti-male, at the heart of it. "Minority" males like niggers and rape apes are at best seen as tools against western culture(s) and normalcy. That's how you get more guys to realize the problem if they aren't invested in things otherwise. The woke likes trannies (and certain types of fags) because they're deviant males that are making a showing of emasculating themselves, it's anti-male, so therefor it's good. Positive/neutral male traits are ignored or treated as bad actually, because they're exactly the sort of traits that would resist the degeneration.

It was never a gaggle of women that would band together and take a trouble causing newcomer to town or a rapist out back behind the barn, after all. The biggest psyop is making as many men as possible believe they have nothing to do with any of it when a lot of the unicause bull is directly responsible for everything that makes current year suck for them.

 

[Not A Bunny]

Obviously Dylan himself didn't cause the collapse in public support for troonery. But he was emblematic of how absurd the excesses had become: he is cartoonishly shallow in his commitment to 'girlhood' and embodies a litany of stereotypes of what people can't stand about troonery. And yet this person, before even living as a woman for a year, is being given marquee awards, interviewing the president, and being lavished with deals for books, music, and more? It was so downright fucking irritating that the right-wing successfully staged a revolt against Budweiser over the stupid beer can (a successful boycott is extremely rare) while progressives twiddled their thumbs and decided they'd allow that one to slide without hurling accusations of bigotry.

He wasn't the cause of mass peak-troonery. But he's symbolic of its cultural excesses. (*Cultural, as opposed to policy excesses or excesses of theory).

This, I think, is the most important thing to note. There is a lot of cultural excess that is involved in transgenderism. I think a lot of people understand that being trans is a luxury belief, in that, if you were in a third-world country (or maybe even struggling financially), you might see being trans might be a quirky little hobby for someone with the money and the kind of leisure time it takes to transition. But it only deserve the care and concern of a hobby, not a lifestyle, and certainly not something that the rest of us need to participate in.

Frankly, even in a better economy, we'd turn our noses up at Dylan Mulvaney. But we're in the one that we're in, and people are way too god damn stressed out to believe we should care that the problems a bloke in a dress have, when he's clearly been built up and given accolades and recognition, could possibly be worse than worrying about getting the fucking bills paid.

Dylan Mulvaney should be the tipping point where we say, "All right, wherever this oppression you're claiming is, I can't fucking find it, and I don't have the time or crayons to explain to you mental midgets why I shouldn't fucking have to."

 

[Neighborhood Curmudgeon]

I mentioned in another thread that I have a new coworker who's a pooner. So far, she's relatively decent to work with. Sometimes, she'll discuss her very cringey but predictable politics and opinions with similarly liberal coworkers and openly discuss disturbing trans-related stuff. She only passes as a fat bald nerdy manlet. Even then, you can tell she's still a biological woman for many reasons.

I've realized she only feels validated as a man because she's been in safe spaces nearly her whole life. Because she clings to the LGBT community, because of course she does, she's only ever had fags, other trannies, and ass-kissing liberals to deal with who easily enable and support her. If you put in a place with real men and normal people, she would not last. She NEEDS her safe spaces to thrive.

She has all the hallmarks of everything we rant about and hate on this website. She has TDS, RDS (Rowling Derangement Syndrome), white guilt, and believes in every toxic hypocritical SJW screed you can think of. She also admitted to getting depressed for weeks on end because she was deadnamed years ago. So much for being strong and resilient, huh?

Regarding her RDS, she actually, though politely, guilt-tripped another coworker about reading Rowling's Troubled Blood. This coworker actually APOLOGIZED for reading and liking it too! I was inwardly disgusted, to say the least.

 

[Vriljami]

The word "bad" basically originally meant troon.

 

[Aunt Carol]

View attachment 7567174

The word "bad" basically originally meant troon.

Lucky; sounds like you missed MonetizeYourCat and the "baeddel" movement in the early 2010s. You can still find crusty troons in Tumblr-adjacent spaces with "baeddel" in their userIDs, though.

Comprehensive Retrospective (written by a pooner but very thorough documentation) (archive)