Paradox Studio Thread

  • 🐕 I am attempting to get the site runnning as fast as possible. If you are experiencing slow page load times, please report it.

Favorite Paradox Game?


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
I tried Vicky3 since it was free. First I played as portugal and then as Iran. Both playthroughs were largely uneventful. Its the Hearts of Iron problem (aside from feeling too much like hearts of iron to begin with) where two thirds of the game is just build up for the last third, only there is no last third. It really does feel like "Nothing Ever Happens: The videogame" you just watch your life tick away while things slooooowly get built to make line go up.

Maybe this is my fault because I dont know how to play Vicky3 but all it made me want to do is go back to EU4

It really depends on the country and goals. As Iran you can remain shockingly stable keeping the landowners in power just modestly growing the economy, but if you want to a create a greater Persia that is a Great Power you'll need to be risk revolutions for reforms, balance allying and fighting the British and Russians and making gambles with deficit spending.

enshittified CK2

The worst change to CK2 happened well before that with the addition of retinues. Managing vassals became much less interesting because you could just terrify them into never rebelling.
 
centuries of culture and history and should give countries an edge.
I know I'm sperging out over an older post again, but Paradox in the last decade or so is petrified of the idea of giving countries a particular edge based on history.

EU4 in particular has nomsense like the Cherokees rapidly westernizing and then reverse invading Europe, because being a native country is barely even a penalty anymore.

See also: neglecting western and central Europe in CK3 in favor of adding more mechanics for vikings or asians or literally anything except the actual crusader kings. HOI4 making a goddamn Afghanistan DLC. I'm tired of the "fair history" bullcrap, let the historical winners have the edge they had in real life.
 
I know I'm sperging out over an older post again, but Paradox in the last decade or so is petrified of the idea of giving countries a particular edge based on history.

EU4 in particular has nomsense like the Cherokees rapidly westernizing and then reverse invading Europe, because being a native country is barely even a penalty anymore.

See also: neglecting western and central Europe in CK3 in favor of adding more mechanics for vikings or asians or literally anything except the actual crusader kings. HOI4 making a goddamn Afghanistan DLC. I'm tired of the "fair history" bullcrap, let the historical winners have the edge they had in real life.
Im just assuming that Sub-Saharan africa will keep up in tech and military power with European nations but will mostly stay contained by geography and this is how it wont be blatently obvious that things are wrong.


Its going to take something like -50% max literacy rate and institution spread to have the technological edge necessary were a few boats filled with people can conquer whole "nations"
 
EU4 in particular has nomsense like the Cherokees rapidly westernizing and then reverse invading Europe
That's actually pretty accurate minus the reverse invading Europe (at their absolute max there were 200,000 of these buggers, 20,000 by the time of the Trail of Tears).

But, and this is the thing, they only did that through Meiji-style crash course copying-the-White-Man. It should be effectively impossible for American Indians and sub-Saharan Africans in the game to do anything in isolation. I mean that. They ought to have a totally asymmetrical tech tree/path of advancements.

I would pay top dollar for a game, even if it was a narrow grand strategy focused just on the Americas, that can accurately portray the world of the Indians. I've already put a fair bit of thought into how you represent stateless societies as an interesting mechanic. (The answer is that you borrow from Old World by having a docket of characters representing influential tribesmen and separate influence resource pools for each of them, some limit on the player's overall ability to tap that and some consequence to allowing influence to pool unspent. Then gameplay becomes focused on how the player can most effectively coordinate among their different chiefs and shamans to do what they actually want to do (as a powergamer) while minimizing the retards from wandering off and, say, selling half your land in a treaty that the rest of the tribe wasn't even aware of, or starting a private war that brings the entire US Army down on you, spontaneous civil war every time the Whites have a civil war, or up and declaring that reading and writing and guns are now illegal and your warriors are bulletproof by their faith in Almighty God. Key to it is that the player can choose to have chiefs do things that the chiefs would want to do. As Spirit of the Nation, they're directing characters among equally plausible choices consistent with that character, but you're not going force your Tecumseh to become a Joseph Vann. Add in the ability to set up logrolling among the tribal powerbrokers - lend your support to my agenda that I care a lot about and you mildly dislike and I'll lend my support to your agenda that you care a lot about and I mildly dislike - and you can start to pull off much more complicated stuff. Playing a state, like the Aztecs, Inca, Iroquois arguably, Cahokia or the Colonies, would be more of a traditional interest group focused game like MEIOU and Taxes.)

Victory is like the WRE in Total War: Attilla: survival. At all.
 
Last edited:
I don't know how accurate this is to the Middle Ages, but maybe the game needs a kind of seesaw of power with laws able to demilitarize the king (like the English tradition of opposing standing armies as tyrannical) or the nobility (like the practice of tearing down castles/outlawing new construction). (Once upon a time Paradox would have made a Magna Carta DLC. You can actually see, in EU4, the direct decline through the DLC names: from classy historical books, especially period ones, to generic bullshit like "Cradle of Civilization").

Of course castles have always felt very underpowered and sieges very uninteresting in CK2.


Edit: You want a great example of a studio kind of bringing that back, Old World's religion DLC is "The Sacred and the Profane." Get it? Like Durkheim? That's academic as fuck.
It's a symbol of catering to very intense history nerds vs catering to this new casual crowd that's formed around it that thinks the Voltaire quip about the HRE is the funniest shit they ever heard and go soyface over the Mughals fighting the Austro-Hungarians in 1939.
 
Last edited:
game needs a kind of seesaw of power with laws
Startegy games in general are really lacking in terms of law as gameplay. One thing I'd really like to see is for a city builder to actually have zoning laws available, for stuff like minimum setbacks for properties, max building height, volume to surface ratio for skyscrappers, minimum parking space per property, there's tons of urban zoning laws that would really make a city unique but instead we're stuck with traffic sims having green-blue-yellow zoning.
As for GSG or other games, Frostpunk 2 showed how either the law system/parliament either removes player agency or can be easily bypassed. It's a tougher balance for larger scale strategy games.
 
Startegy games in general are really lacking in terms of law as gameplay. One thing I'd really like to see is for a city builder to actually have zoning laws available, for stuff like minimum setbacks for properties, max building height, volume to surface ratio for skyscrappers, minimum parking space per property, there's tons of urban zoning laws that would really make a city unique but instead we're stuck with traffic sims having green-blue-yellow zoning.
As for GSG or other games, Frostpunk 2 showed how either the law system/parliament either removes player agency or can be easily bypassed. It's a tougher balance for larger scale strategy games.
I had a post long ago about the missing niche of political city-builders. The closest it comes is Tropico, which that isn't exactly balanced well to be hard (largely because it doesn't have CK2-like design!).* I had just read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil and was real interested in the story of Jim Williams' feud with the Jew he lived across from. Feud over the proper approach to historic preservation (in Savannah, GA), how Savannah and Charleston both came to be extremely well-preserved for almost opposite reasons. and the larger politics (muh Black folks) at stake in it.

And what I said was that there's a real missing hole for city-builders that have an element of history in them. Urban Empire kind of tried, it just wasn't any good from what the reviews say. Some other games are trying. But they all have this in that you're building from nothing at the start and end of whatever historical era the game is themed after. EVERY city is a planned city from the get-go, so it's very unnatural and boring unless you intentionally go out of your way to - very likely costing you efficiency - garden your city, phony it up like it has a past.

But preservation presents a great opportunity for strategic gameplay. Give the player some absolute hellhole, tell them to fix it, and then put political constraints on what they can do that can be played around by playing the political game. You can't just do whatever you want as a city executive/mayor! Charleston was a rich city that had a self-absorbed elite that was the last bastion of the traditional planter culture (over a century after they were destroyed as an economic class), with a very distinctive culture (more Caribbean than American) that had the kind of unity of purpose and social capital necessary to ram through the largest historic preservation district in the world. Savannah was a battlegrounds because the Jew wanted a broader campaign of preservation to rejuvenate the ghettos, which Williams believed would actually be a burden on them due to giving them homes they couldn't feasibly maintain. Williams went narrow and high quality, the Jew (Adler?) went broad and low quality. When Williams was charged with the murder of his gay lover (he was innocent IRL, and it went on to be a massive scandalous trial of the century thing for Georgia) Adler leveraged his friendship with the DA to persecute Williams as revenge for that and the time Williams flew a big ass swastika flag across from Adler's synagogue.

Well, I've thought about it as preservation, but it can be themed around anything that has a whiff of social issues. Campaign scenarios include (limiting this to the 20th and 21st Centuries):
Los Angeles in the lead up to the LA Riots
Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans
Detroit as it collapses into abandoned homes
The Manhattan Project (Secret City) in Oak Ridge

Edit: The whole story of the TVA could be, on a large rural map, a scenario. I said Secret City because I was thinking of the "town where none of the locals know what's going on" deal, but it could as well be the story of the resistance to dam construction locally

The artificial Mob and Mormon origins of Las Vegas
The Summer of Love mass migration to San Francisco and drug epidemic
The contemporary economic inequality and sanitation and drug crisis of San Francisco
Giuliani's campaign to clean up New York City
Smedley Butler's bloody all-out war on bootleggers in Philadelphia
The utopian dreams (did not come to be) of Epcot or of Hershey
The Battle of Athens, TN
Dayton, OH's experiment with being one of the earliest cities to use city executives instead of mayors
Something themed after the horrific industrial nightmare worlds that are Northern cities (Cuyahoga River Fire, Centralia fire, inspiration from overseas like Bhopal and Chernobyl)
Aforementioned Charleston and Savannah

Edit: New York City's use of the Italian Mob in a campaign against German spies in the harbors
The fucked up story of the Cabrini-Green in Chicago
Red Summer and the First Red Scare
I actually had an idea for a Tropico clone (Tropico is better for simulating this than it is dictatorships), but West Virginia Mine Wars company towns
Death of towns in the High Plains in the Dust Bowl

*CK2 is sort of an unintentional implementation of selectorate theory:

CK2 is all about "keys to power" management. Tropico kind of cocks it up in that it mostly just uses the politics as flavoring, so you get this situation where factions mostly just want specific things done that you also want done... there's no meaningful fault lines for conflicts, no gameplay of having to constantly balance (as if your capabilities increase, so will the expectations of the factions) and prune with terror a coalition of insiders.
 
Last edited:
But they all have this in that you're building from nothing at the start and end of whatever historical era the game is themed after. EVERY city is a planned city from the get-go, so it's very unnatural and boring unless you intentionally go out of your way to - very likely costing you efficiency - garden your city, phony it up like it has a past.
That's one of my biggest gripes with both modern and ancient city-builders. For modern ones, you start from scratch and plan everything as you said, meanwhile for ancient ones, they usually go the route of needing farming+city building so you end up with wheat farms in your city center. Also coupled that I don't know of any city-builder that makes rebuilding and itterating easy. You always have to pause the game, destroy and plan for a while, then let the game run again. Meanwhile in real life it's the reverse, townhall makes plans for years then builds them. Having some sort of blueprint where you can place a new highway "ghost" then once you bought the land back, then you active the construction something like that would make remodelling cities much easier and fun. Also for the medieval era, a lot of towns came about somewhat accidentally because the lord had a castle and hosted a market nearby, then constructions was allowed slowly around until it eventually became a city. Unless you start from the stone age or play a colonial themed game, no city should come about from nothing.
 
That's one of my biggest gripes with both modern and ancient city-builders. For modern ones, you start from scratch and plan everything as you said, meanwhile for ancient ones, they usually go the route of needing farming+city building so you end up with wheat farms in your city center. Also coupled that I don't know of any city-builder that makes rebuilding and itterating easy. You always have to pause the game, destroy and plan for a while, then let the game run again. Meanwhile in real life it's the reverse, townhall makes plans for years then builds them. Having some sort of blueprint where you can place a new highway "ghost" then once you bought the land back, then you active the construction something like that would make remodelling cities much easier and fun. Also for the medieval era, a lot of towns came about somewhat accidentally because the lord had a castle and hosted a market nearby, then constructions was allowed slowly around until it eventually became a city. Unless you start from the stone age or play a colonial themed game, no city should come about from nothing.
That can be a bitch.

The Anno series, which nobody but me talks about here but is genuinely GOAT, has casual rebuilding. You can toggle a setting to make it cost money, by default it's free: you can do whatever you want in terms of reorganization... damn near necessary to. I think you can even preplace the building.

When I play Tropico 4, that game has small enough maps/casual enough transport that I just know in advance how I'm going to build my districts. It's not hard.
Government district around the palace
Colleges, hospitals and cathedrals tend to be clustered around each other and near both the government and school district
- If the college happens to go with an army base early on, it's roleplayed as a military academy
Media district near the education buildings
Elementary and grade schools near the college/church/cathedral, but further out towards residences
Residential blocs of different levels of quality (usually one top-scale one near palace district)
Industrial harbor (factories, power plants, etc.)
Tourist district on another beach
(potentially) Luxury tourist district on another beach
Blending from the tourist districts back into the island center:
- Sin district (night clubs, bars, cabarets, casinos, etc.)
- Theme park land (rollercoasters, aqua parks, etc.)
- Museum district (zoos, botanical gardens, art museums)
- Low brow mass entertainment district (movie theaters, sports complexes, and such)
Distant militarized district (army bases, amenities for the army base, radar dishes)
American/Soviet army bases I usually keep way out on the outskirts
Exurbs consisting of my rural and mining industries with sufficient low income, low-density housing (no reason to build it but RP) and minimal amenities (church, clinic, pubs, etc.)
I tend to plunk my tribal tourist attractions (cultural shit) near pyramids and dictator museums near pyramids or forts and just pretend that it was "always" there, I'll often make a sort of exurb of the dictator's hometown

(I did happen to have another idea, from playing Anno and Tropico, of a cruise liner sim where you have prebuilt islands with history, mostly just scenery, but as you manage your liners (like, tycoon-style what tourist bullshit goes on the program, what route do we cruise) you can start to invest into the ports of call and ultimately into resort islands. I'm kind of surprise the Planet series has never tried that, because a lot of its gameplay concepts and sheer simulationist autism would fit it like a glove.)
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: byuuWasTaken
Been playing the Stellaris open beta "Wilderness" and while a lot of bugs do seem fixed there is still a game breaking bug: The ai is still not doing anything to its planets. 2306 currently and every ai planet I can see still has the default starting buildings.


Still dont know how this passes the QA check, assuming they still have one
 
Gilded Destiny, the non-Paradox grand strategy game about the industrial revolution and its consequences, has been officially released for alpha testing, with Steam keys given to its Kickstarter and Modian (Chinese equivalent of Kickstarter) supporters. As an alpha tester, you have access to the game and its built-in editor, can report bugs, and can make suggestions. You also had to sign a non-disclosure agreement to gain access to the alpha.

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.
 
Been playing the Stellaris open beta "Wilderness" and while a lot of bugs do seem fixed there is still a game breaking bug: The ai is still not doing anything to its planets. 2306 currently and every ai planet I can see still has the default starting buildings.


Still dont know how this passes the QA check, assuming they still have one
The players are the QA check now. And the modders are the patchers.
 
Last edited:
Gilded Destiny, the non-Paradox grand strategy game about the industrial revolution and its consequences, has been officially released for alpha testing, with Steam keys given to its Kickstarter and Modian (Chinese equivalent of Kickstarter) supporters. As an alpha tester, you have access to the game and its built-in editor, can report bugs, and can make suggestions. You also had to sign a non-disclosure agreement to gain access to the alpha.

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.
Hope it's good, if only to give more competition in the GSG space.
 
Gilded Destiny, the non-Paradox grand strategy game about the industrial revolution and its consequences, has been officially released for alpha testing, with Steam keys given to its Kickstarter and Modian (Chinese equivalent of Kickstarter) supporters. As an alpha tester, you have access to the game and its built-in editor, can report bugs, and can make suggestions. You also had to sign a non-disclosure agreement to gain access to the alpha.

This private information is unavailable to guests due to policies enforced by third-parties.
How is it compared to Vic 2?
 
How is it compared to Vic 2?
Unfinished. We're talking about an alpha version of a game. Most mechanics have been implemented, but a few more still have to be added or reworked. There are also many flavors and balancing changes needed to be added, as the developers primarily focused on implementing game mechanics.

Anyways, many of the features implemented so far do feel like Victoria II in terms of design, but more refined and modernized. The new mechanics that weren't present in Victoria II are relatively easy to understand. The devs said they want to avoid the cookie clicker-style gameplay Victoria 3 has. The overall vision does indicate a Victoria II-style core gameplay loop, but with additional complexity in a good way. A true successor with a distinct identity if nothing goes wrong.

The creator tool that can be used for modding is very easy to use and will make modding very accessible. Flavor mods, alt-history mods, and fantasy mods can be mass-produced with it. Many elements seem to be way less hardcoded compared to Victoria II, but that's just me inspecting the game files directly.

The game has great potential, but I'll probably have to wait for the beta to tell whether it will live up to my expectations or not.

What I loved about Victoria II is that I was also managing the entire population of a country with some realism. Creating a prosperous society for my people along with a powerful empire they can be proud of is really satisfying. I only played a few hours of Victoria 3 and it didn't live up to my expectations. It had some weird decisions when it came to politics and it didn't feel that realistic, plus the focus on economic micromanagement wasn't my cup of tea. Victoria 2 is about nationalism & imperialism; Victoria 3 is about class warfare and watching your GDP go up. The reason why Victoria 3 was disappointing for many is because it was marketed as a sequel to Victoria 2 when it's clearly not.

Gilded Destiny aims to bring back that style of gameplay to the modern age with expanded mechanics. Your pops now have political power and their support determines how much "authority" you will generate. Authority is used for certain interactions like passing laws, managing states, and choosing which minority group you want to discriminate against. Their political power will also determine how much authority is needed for these actions, so enacting universal suffrage will be hard if all the power is in the hands of reactionary aristocrats, even if the majority of your population is liberal and unhappy enough to revolt. Passing unpopular laws and making your politically powerful pops unhappy by not having their goods received will make you generate less authority, making your country weaker. This mechanic is not only more realistic than how Victoria II handles things but also adds tons of dynamic interactions to the game (once they fully finish implementing and balancing it).

One great addition unique to Gilded Destiny is its leader system. You now have to appoint leaders to manage your country, like ministers, researchers, governors, generals, and admirals. They'll give you bonuses based on their stats and they'll improve in certain areas over time based on their current positions. This means if you have created a powerful general by fighting tons of battles, you might want to appoint him as the minister of war for great bonuses. Alternatively, you could appoint someone with high diplomacy skills for the same position and receive different bonuses if that's what you need. They also have their opinion on your government and political ideologies they'll follow.

I think aesthetics and presentation are important to grand strategy games, as this is what separates them from being mere spreadsheets and Gilded Destiny is absolutely trying to nail that. There are many Hearts of Iron IV mods that can thank their popularity to their characters and lores. The New Order is rather infamous for being more of a visual novel than a war game. While the core gameplay loop of Victoria II is fun and the UI still looks good after a decade, it definitely lacks quite a few elements to be considered truly immersive. Your pops are nothing more than a few pixelated icons and some pie charts. The leaders of your country don't even have a name, let alone a face. Your generals and admirals are the only things in the game with some form of identity. Gilded Destiny aims to fix that with additions such as leaders who have large animated portraits or how cultures and religions following different moral and social values give you different bonuses on a pop level.

Years ago, I wanted to make a total conversion mod with a heavy focus on the new environment it would take place in and I had no game for it. Victoria II is unable to do an immersive presentation of its content and Hearts of Iron IV is bad at simulating basically anything that isn't warfare, so I put this idea on the shelf for years. If Gilded Destiny succeeds, I might make this old dream a reality.
 
Flavor mods, alt-history mods, and fantasy mods can be mass-produced with it. Many elements seem to be way less hardcoded compared to Victoria II, but that's just me inspecting the game files directly.
I hope, because the hex map is appealing, drawing out the map for PDX mods is time consuming and I hate heightmaps with a passion.
 
This reminds me of Rule the Waves 3 (2023).

Presenting information in a digestible way is really important for the strategy genre. Good UI is when you can obtain information at a glance. You can tell how well your HOI4 offensive is going by the color of your bubbles; lots of green is good and lots of red is bad. V2 gives you pie charts to tell the composition of your population and you can also tell how much your pops get their needs by the fullness or emptiness of their cups. This is where spreadsheet simulators fail. To get the slightest idea of how well you are doing, you always have to read to gain any information. Even small stuff like 32*32 pixel icons and progress bars are a huge step up from this. Visualization is important and gets information across by a single glance, while reading is taxing for the brain and always having to search for what you need because all the texts look the same is not fun. While I do dislike a lot of things Paradox has been doing, one thing they tend to get right is the UI. I think Paradox games would only have a fraction of their current popularity if their UI looked like Aurora 4x's.
 
Back