Blood Meridian discussion - This is a terrible place to die in

I like Blood Meridian. The prose is gorgeous and the characters are good. While the themes are fun to discuss, and are brought through the plot and characters well, it's also not particularly groundbreaking. People have infinite capacity for evil, news at 11.

McCarthy's refusal to use quotation marks is asinine and annoying, and although I do try to separate the art from the artist I have found my opinion of Blood Meridian lessened by the recent discoveries about McCarthy grooming a vulnerable and abused underage fan of his.
 
I'm also wondering if anyone else in this thread has read other works by McCarthy. I read The Road and Child of God and enjoyed them significantly less than Blood Meridian.
 
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I'm also wondering if anyone else in this thread has read other works by McCarthy. I read The Road and Child of God and enjoyed them significantly less than Blood Meridian.
I've read everything except for his final two books, which I'm still working through. I've loved or liked it all. (The Road is a masterpiece.)

I would suggest you try The Border Trilogy. Everyone seems to prefer All the Pretty Horses, but the second of those books, The Crossing, is one of his best novels, period. And those books are fairly accessible in terms of content.
 
I'm also wondering if anyone else in this thread has read other works by McCarthy.

I read "The Road" three or four years after it came out when I was a lot younger. It was the first fiction book I had ever read that had real-life recognizable elements to it. When the man and boy walk by a "See Rock City" painted barn I fell in love with the book and I could literally see the rolling hills and hollers they have to go through at the beginning. I should probably re-read it now that i'm older.

I've read "Outer Dark" which was great cause it's just a tale of two people travelling through turn of the century (1900) Tennessee and even mentions places that I've been too.

I got halfway through "Suttree" before putting the book down and never finishing it. I will one day.

Other than "Blood Meridian" I haven't read any of his western books. His Tennessee books have a special connection with me. I don't have to imagine the places that his characters go, I can see them, or have been to them.
 
I've read everything except for his final two books, which I'm still working through. I've loved or liked it all. (The Road is a masterpiece.)

I would suggest you try The Border Trilogy. Everyone seems to prefer All the Pretty Horses, but the second of those books, The Crossing, is one of his best novels, period. And those books are fairly accessible in terms of content.
I found The Road to be massively dull. I think it would have been better served as a short story. This might be partially due to my upbringing and background.

I've been a Christian my whole life, so the idea that men have endless capacity for evil/cruelty, and that the world is heading toward an apocalypse with disease/famine/natural disasters, is not new to me and was something I was exposed to from a very young age. I also am (unfortunately) no stranger to human suffering so McCarthy's themes of the nature (and possible futility) of good vs evil and the fragility of human civilization were a bit banal. I also think his descriptive prose is much better in Blood Meridian.

I think I disliked Child of God for similar reasons. I will check out The Border Trilogy though; you're not the first person to recommend it to me.

I read "The Road" three or four years after it came out when I was a lot younger. It was the first fiction book I had ever read that had real-life recognizable elements to it.
What do you mean by "real-life recognizable elements?"
 
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I found The Road to be massively dull. I think it would have been better served as a short story. This might be partially due to my upbringing and background.
I could not disagree more. Different strokes and all that.

The setting and the events of The Road are about an unnamed apocalypse and the worst of human nature, sure, but I think it's thematically about McCarthy's feelings about his youngest son, John. McCarthy had him at an advanced age (in his 60s, I think), and so he had to face much earlier what all parents (if they are lucky!) eventually have to face: the prospect of leaving your child alone in a dangerous world you wish you could protect him from forever.

McCarthy said contradictory things about his own spirituality. He said the Bible was the greatest work of English literature. He preferred the company of scientists to anyone else, and at one point he said he was basically a materialist. But he also said he felt differently every day about it and that it was good to pray. I think The Road was, in part, his attempt to explore his own uncertainty about the nature of reality and to find hope even in a world without a certain God. That's the meaning of the ending, in my mind: pledging himself to goodness.

I also really, er, "enjoyed" Child of God as horrific as the subject matter was. As a character study I found it strangely moving: a hopelessly monsterous person who, after all of it, was (as the recurring titular phrase says) a child of God like the rest of us and who was thrown away in the garbage at the end of his life. What a sad waste of a human life.

I guess my point is I see a lot of beauty in these books filled with ugliness. I am not surprised when anyone disagrees, though.

Based on your expressed feelings, I would not recommend Outer Dark. It's the first book where the author finds his voice, but I don't think you would appreciate the odd bleakness. Though you might put up with it for his prose, I suppose. IIRC, it's one where he uses his more intricate writing style.
 
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I am enjoying our conversation immensely

The setting and the events of The Road are about an unnamed apocalypse and the worst of human nature, sure, but I think it's thematically about McCarthy's feelings about his youngest son, John. McCarthy had him at an advanced age (in his 60s, I think), and so he had to face much earlier what all parents (if they are lucky!) eventually have to face: the prospect of leaving your child alone in a dangerous world you wish you could protect him from forever.
I did not know this, and it makes sense. I still think the story would have been better served as a short story rather than a novel, but I appreciate this insight.

McCarthy said contradictory things about his own spirituality. He said the Bible was the greatest work of English literature. He preferred the company of scientists to anyone else, and at one point he said he was basically a materialist. But he also said he felt differently every day about it and that it was good to pray. I think The Road was, in part, his attempt to explore his own uncertainty about the nature of reality and to find hope even in a world without a certain God. That's the meaning of the ending, in my mind: pledging himself to goodness.
He was clearly fascinated by the depths to which mankind can sink, and I don't think you can dwell on such topics for long without wondering if there is infinite evil and therefore some form of infinite good. Doesn't The Road end with a fish in a river?

I guess my point is I see a lot of beauty in these books filled with ugliness. I am not surprised when anyone disagrees, though.
I can see that. IMO in The Road and Child of God the ugliness and... languid pace of the plot far outweighs the glimpses of beauty, but that is just my opinion.

I also really, er, "enjoyed" Child of God as horrific as the subject matter was. As a character study I found it strangely moving: a hopelessly monsterous person who, after all of it, was (as the recurring titular phrase says) a child of God like the rest of us and who was thrown away in the garbage at the end of his life. What a sad waste of a human life.
I remember interpreting the title as ironic, a reference to the absence of God or the main character's abandonment, but tbf I do not remember Child well in general. I can see and respect your interpretation but this would be another area I am accustomed to due to my upbringing. Prior to the Apostle Paul's conversion, he arrested and imprisoned Christians and voted for their deaths at their trials. King David raped a woman and then had her husband killed.

Based on your expressed feelings, I would not recommend Outer Dark. It's the first book where the author finds his voice, but I don't think you would appreciate the odd bleakness. Though you might put up with it for his prose, I suppose. IIRC, it's one where he uses his more intricate writing style.
I might check it out. I haven't sworn off McCarthy yet.
 
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He was clearly fascinated by the depths to which mankind can sink, and I don't think you can dwell on such topics for long without wondering if there is infinite evil and therefore some form of infinite good. Doesn't The Road end with a fish in a river?
I was referring to the boy finding other people. Readers I know were conflicted by the ending because it seemed to good to be true.

The final sentences you're referring to
are describing an image of life from a world that is gone forever. I think he put that in to "soften the blow" of the "happy" ending: oblivion has merely been delayed, and the most tragic events might be coming, because now the boy has even more to lose in a dying world. .. but that's how life is, isn't it?

The Road is a hard book. McCarthy's books always threatened to hurt me when I read one for the first time, but they don't hurt that much less the second time. I've found The Road deeply affecting every time I've read it, and I always find more in it.

The movie by John Hillcoat is, by the way, decent. Not great, but a competent version of the story. The ending anyways gets me.

I have no hope at all for the planned film version of Blood Meridian. There's talent behind it, but I don't think it's filmable, and not just because of the violence.
 
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I've read it all
What'd you think of The Passenger / Stella Maris? I absolutely hated this bullshit method of writing conversation throughout the entirety of both books
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It could be fine if the narrative was more compelling but the only fun parts were his sister's hallucinations, otherwise it was pointless TL;DR theoretical physics babble and dude lamenting over wanting to bang his little sister. Thankfully these will likely be his last books because it feels like the ramblings of an Alzheimer's patient.
 
What'd you think of The Passenger / Stella Maris? I absolutely hated this bullshit method of writing conversation throughout the entirety of both books
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It could be fine if the narrative was more compelling but the only fun parts were his sister's hallucinations, otherwise it was pointless TL;DR theoretical physics babble and dude lamenting over wanting to bang his little sister. Thankfully these will likely be his last books because it feels like the ramblings of an Alzheimer's patient.
I misspoke earlier, slightly. I've read everything before those, and I am still working on them. (And my piles of other unread books...)

Honestly, I love how he wrote dialogue without quotation marks. It forces you to pay closer attention and to process what you're reading in a different way. It might be self-indulgent to some, but art is self-indulgent.

My suspicion is Stella Maris was something McCarthy literally dictated to his family as a way to get a final, unexpected book out. I think I read something indicating that, but I might be making it up.

He died in 2023, so these are indeed his final works.
 
Honestly, I love how he wrote dialogue without quotation marks
I don't mind the lack of quotation marks, it's how conversations go for pages with very little context as to who's speaking. It'd be fine if those conversations really mattered but when a quarter of the book is about some so relatable as quarks and flurks or whatever I just checked out
 
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What do you mean by "real-life recognizable elements?"

I phrased that rather poorly lol. To me reading McCarthy's Tennessee books is like having a famous author describe your hometown, the surrounding area, and the people that inhabit it. Those "See Rock City" barns I was talking about are only in one very small portion of the country and I saw many of them when I was young. I've been to "Rock City" lol.
 
gave up on it after the second time I read past the dead baby tree and realized I hadn't noticed it because I was so checked out.
Yeah it’s just all so tiresome.
I put my copy of “It” down when I got to the child orgy part and said to myself “This Stephen King guy is an insane creep.” and never read any of his stuff again.

The only thing remotely worthwhile about Blood Meridian would be if a pro wrestler with an evil heel cowboy character used it as the name of his finishing move. That’s it.
 
I really like the book, it's one I go back to from time to time and skim through just to see my favourite passages

I know the real Judge Holden was referenced in two books. My Confession by Samuel Chamberlain which was about the Glanton Gang and no doubt a primary influence on Blood Meridian, and also briefly mentioned in Tales from the Big Bend by Elton Miles. I haven't read My Confession yet, but here is the description from the book as per Wiki

The second in command, now left in charge of the camp, was a man of gigantic size who rejoiced in the name of Holden, called “Judge” Holden of Texas. Who or what he was no one knew but a cooler blooded villain never went unhung; he stood six feet six in his moccasins, had a large fleshy frame, a dull tallow colored face destitute of hair and all expression. But when a quarrel took place and blood shed, his hog-like eyes would gleam with a sullen ferocity worthy of the countenance of a fiend. His desires was blood and women, and terrible stories were circulated in camp of horrid crimes committed by him when bearing another name, in the Cherokee nation and Texas; and before we left Fronteras a little girl of ten years was found in the chapperal, foully violated and murdered. The mark of a huge hand on her little throat pointed him out as the ravisher as no other man had such a hand, but though all suspected, no one charged him with the crime.

Holden was by far the best educated man in northern Mexico; he conversed with all in their own language, spoke in several Indian lingos, at a fandango would take the Harp or the Guitar from the hands of the musicians and charm all with his wonderful performance and out-waltz any poblana of the ball. He was “plum center” with a rifle or revolver, a daring horseman, acquainted with the nature of all the strange plants and their botanical names, great in geology and mineralogy, in short another Admirable Crichton [sc., the 16th-century Scottish prodigy and polymath], and with all an arrant coward.

Not but that he possessed enough courage to fight Indians and Mexicans or anyone else where he had the advantage in strength, skill, and weapons. But where the combat would be equal, he would avoid it if possible. I hated him at first sight and he knew it, yet nothing could be more gentle and kind than his deportment towards me; he would often seek conversation with me and speak of Massachusetts and to my astonishment I found he knew more about Boston than I did.


He is mentioned in passing in Tales from the Big Bend, where it references his huge size, that he raped and murdered a 10 year old, that he was highly-educated and had many different skills including guitar and harp
 
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I read the book before Wendigoon's video came out. On my read of the ending, I thought that it was some fourth wall breaking shit. The Judge is talking about everyone being gathered to this place and not knowing why, he points to an idiot drooling and mumbling to himself and asks The Man why he is there and The Man has no answer. The Judge talks about a ritual that needs to take place. I thought it was a wink to the camera. The Judge is a demon that has realized he has been written into a book and is trying to find away to escape at the end of the story.

That's just crazy though.... right?
The ritual is a nod to the Danse Macabre, the eternal death dance that represents the back and forth war and struggle that is life. The judge is a Grim Reaper/Odin figure who needs recruits for Ragnarok, a cyclic eternal war.
Requiem (Detail), 2018 - Oil on canvas by Ignacio Trelis (Spanish, b.1960)..webpGMmy5rhWUAEGT0p.webp9B1F41F2-5124-4076-A43F-6DE69A167A3C-16159-00000DBBEC1A20EC.webp
 
I like Blood Meridian. The prose is gorgeous and the characters are good. While the themes are fun to discuss, and are brought through the plot and characters well, it's also not particularly groundbreaking. People have infinite capacity for evil, news at 11.
I think the issue with a lot of the discussion around Blood Meridian is that it is so easy to discuss the obvious stuff and ignore the more interesting bits.


This specific section has so many layers I can't even begin to explain why I love it so much.
 
This is the most important scene in the book.

And this is a great reading of it. Is this an amateur narrator?
It's the standard audiobook. I actually bought the book on audible but they made it "unavailable" for whatever retarded reason after Mccarthy died. You can find the same thing on youtube if you search "Blood Meridian audiobook" if you would like to find it.

Honestly Blood Meridian is the single best audiobook I've ever heard, as the way the book is written lends itself really well to an audio format.

Also there are many important scenes. I am partial to the ending scene where the Judge and the Man are in the bar.
 
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