S.401 - Fair Access to Banking Act

[The Paranoid Organ]

These companies are RAPING you, they are RAPING the country, they are PILFERING businesses of all sizes for billions of dollars a year, and then they use that power to break the back of alt-tech, blackball individuals from the global economy, and fund DEI initiatives, mass immigration initiatives, and child genital mutilation surgeries. You, when you swipe a Visa/MasterCard, pay for little boys to get castrated in the US.

Well that is fucking grim there Null. It's gets harder and harder NOT to see this as a spiritual conflict on the personal level. I guess 'winning' right now is to just persist and limit the energy/currency you give the demons until the inevitable paradigm shift. So cash, checks, precious metals are the core transaction medium (as it should be) and absolutely minimise use of anything that hits the payment processors.
Are there any good guides to dodge payment processors, like services or alternative financial transaction networks that are out there?

 

[Null]

what is actually involved in setting up a payment processor

you need $80 million to get licensed.
you need partnerships with underwriting banks.
you need agreements with payment processors.
you need cardholders to somehow stay solvent with aforementioned.

you're talking $100+ million to even get started and then you better somehow have enough volume that scraping 3% off each tx keeps you afloat. I imagine you'd probably need to charge even more than 3% to get off the ground but having higher fees means fewer businesses will even take you.

Then you're competing in an ecosystem where there is no actual advantage. One of the main reasons why you can't pass off fees to the customer but can do cash advantages is that when you do 5% off for cash, you are treating all card networks the same. If you transparently showed your MasterCard fee is $3.20, your Visa fee is $3.50, and your Amex fee is $5.50, then consumers would choose the lowest priced network if they didn't have cash.

But that's not how it works, by design. If they're checking out, do they choose the MasterCard, Visa, Discover, Amex, or KiwiCard? Well, there's no distinction in practice, so why not just use your Visa debit card? That's what most people would do. They might use their Amex if they're saving points for a trip or something. That's the consumer's mindset, not what is the most fair to the business, or what creates the most liberty.


Here's a good example: Discover card. Discover is a merger of Discover (Sears, 1980s) Diner's Club (International, 1950s) and JCB (Japan, 1960s - which is why Discover card is accepted throughout Japan and every 7-11's ATM also lets you take cash advances from Discover). Discover has the lowest market share of the main four card networks at under 5% total marketshare (which didn't stop them from banning Dick Masterson's New Project 2 from accepting cards from any network, by the way).

So despite competing for decades and being a merger of several smaller card networks, Discover has never seen significant market share. In fact, listening to the radio recently, I have heard actual advertisements from Discover that go along the lines of:
"ay gurl whatchu doin?"
"shawpin gurl"
"wit cho discover card??? nobody accepts that!"
"it ain't tha nineties anymore gurl! Discover is accepted at 99% of retailers now!"
"sheeeeeeeeeet"

That's not hyperbole, Discover has been around for half a fucking century and is still trying to convince people you can use it to buy things despite being owned by fucking Capital One. How do you think KiwiCard fairs?

 

[Waffle Iron]

"You can't use your own money in society because you said no no words and kept receipts against us" is the gayest CCP adjacent nanny state shit ever. Full stop.
It's even more insane when you realize they have the power to do this at will to people who they deem are rocking the boat too hard, but mysteriously lack this banking based super power when convicted diddlers and actual violent individuals with cases are free to do whatever.

There is no meme, I am just mad and not at the internet but at the state of things.

Reminds me of this moment. It is absolutely insane payment processors can blackball individuals, companies or even countries and everyone thinks it is okay. They abuse this semi-governmental position. They're not a government organ, so they can't be held liable for suppressing free speech, but they are also supported by the government and laws are used to censor people.

Payment processors "we're just abiding by the law sorry"
Government "they're private instititutions they can serve whom they want"
But as long as it's le evil doxxing man or the evil empire no one gives a fuck.

That's interesting. To my knowledge these processors avoid any sexual explicit content in the case of steam so it makes no sense why support one and not the other.

There is a podcast called hot fuzz (i think) which talks about this. Processors are cagey about financing porn, but if it is a small enough % of your total revenue they allow it. This is why onlyfans was pushing non-porn creators so hard. Why patreon pushes the porn patreons off the front page. Why steam can allow porn without getting cut off.

 

[ScatmansWorld]

One thing that makes me hopeful that these obstructive payment processing companies will lose is that at the end of the day, for better or worse, governments gravitate towards whatever gives them the biggest and most consistent income stream.

A Chinese official named Feng Shixin once proposed new regulations to gatcha games that would essentially make them illegal, and he was promptly fired because they realized how much tax money they would lose due to those proposed changes.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-removes-official-after-video-games-rules-spark-turmoil-sources-2024-01-02/

Pennsylvania has operated a state monopoly on liquor sales for decades and have considered loosening the laws multiple times to allow the creation of privately owned liquor stores, but they've always fallen through because the state makes so much money off of their monopoly. Ironically, California has banned any state owned building from selling alcohol due to the conflict of interest it creates like in Pennsylvania.

Once the government realizes how much money they miss out on from payment processors being the arbiters of law and morality, they will most likely do anything they can to stop them from blocking payments and keep the money flowing, as long as Uncle Sam gets his pound of flesh too. Of course, this also means extra fees are a much harder front to fight, because in theory they mean more tax money going to the government as well. You'd have to convince them that these extra fees lead to less money overall, and are more trouble than they are worth.

 

[Overly Serious]

I can think of few things that are more potentially unifying to disparate groups than access to being able to buy and sell. There's nobody that doesn't need this. Whether you're Null, some deplatformed Radfem, or God help you, somebody trying to buy an erotic game on Steam - this is something you care about. Money is meaningless without the ability to send or receive it. Stage one is to get this message out of just the Farms and to as many places outside as possible.

Debanking (I know a misnomer but anyway) had a bit of a blip in the UK when British politician Nigel Farage was debanked for his political activities and opinions. In Canada, truckers were debanked for Covid protests. It's a tactic seeing growing use as more and more transactions become digital. Now is really the time to push this.

 

[StacticShock]

2 activist groups advocating for the same thing but for different reasons is better than 1. no reason women can't lead their own payment processor accountability group.

women and accountability are oxymorons though.

Congrats to the people in this thread who read Null's carefully crafted essay about payment processors and immediately made it about gender sperging because Lidl said something dumb. Your rights are being eroded and you want to argue technicalities of language with internet randoms. Dumb fucks.

not all kiwis live in burgermerica so the best thing any such kiwi can say is do what jersh says and keep the pressure on your representatives.

so yeah, do what jersh says and keep the pressure on your representatives.

 

[Null]

Once the government realizes how much money they miss out on from payment processors being the arbiters of law and morality, they will most likely do anything they can to stop them from blocking payments and keep the money flowing, as long as Uncle Sam gets his pound of flesh too. Of course, this also means extra fees are a much harder front to fight, because in theory they mean more tax money going to the government as well. You'd have to convince them that these extra fees lead to less money overall, and are more trouble than they are worth.

The thing is, nobody wants this. We have FedNow, whose existence I have been tracking since it was announced before COVID. It is effectively just a bank2bank system at the moment but theoretically if the Federal Reserve tried to introduce FedNow as a card, I think a lot of people would chimp out because it means providing the Federal Reserve directly their entire purchase history. Now, the card networks already work interoperable as government services, but as private businesses they don't have any constitutional restraints, so the government prefers this quasi-public-private grey area they sit in.

The government only benefits from subservient private enterprise. Through regulations that act as effective monopoly charters, compliant companies like Visa and MasterCard create a necessary service that has all the downsides of a government public service with none of the upsides (such as due process, constitutional protections, public access requirements, etc).

The purpose of a system is what it does.


Now a STATE card? I don't know. There's technically a bank in North Dakota we've talked about before but it doesn't have any e-banking features because it is deliberately uncompetitive in the market. It would be cheeky to see something like Mountain Momma Card for West Virginia LLCs, but I don't think that is .. in the cards.

 

[Do Not Touch Me Pls]

Once the government realizes how much money they miss out on from payment processors being the arbiters of law and morality, they will most likely do anything they can to stop them from blocking payments and keep the money flowing, as long as Uncle Sam gets his pound of flesh too. Of course, this also means extra fees are a much harder front to fight, because in theory they mean more tax money going to the government as well. You'd have to convince them that these extra fees lead to less money overall, and are more trouble than they are worth.

The governments and the payment processors are one and the same, unfortunately. The payment processors are assuredly not on top of the chain of command. This is not new, the same commonwealth countries behind entire banwaves of violent video games in their own turfs are behind it. They just have a way to exploit the system to enforce it overseas.

Also they won't understand stuff in a monetary perspective, this is the reason why EA and Activision are undead companies that should be going out of business a decade ago. You need to make the Commonwealths realize that prohibiting pixels is pointless so the number of victims vastly decrease or are at the least returning to a local scale. It has happened to the EU by the end of the 90s, it has to happen here as well.

It is absolutely insane payment processors can blackball individuals, companies or even countries and everyone thinks it is okay. They abuse this semi-governmental position. They're not a government organ, so they can't be held liable for suppressing free speech, but they are also supported by the government and laws are used to censor people.

It reminds me of the Medieval Dark Ages where the church can rape entire harems of little boys, but the moment you start researching planets you're instantly executed for heresy (astrology and witchcraft specifically).

 

[Waffle Iron]

I can think of few things that are more potentially unifying to disparate groups than access to being able to buy and sell. There's nobody that doesn't need this. Whether you're Null, some deplatformed Radfem, or God help you, somebody trying to buy an erotic game on Steam - this is something you care about. Money is meaningless without the ability to send or receive it. Stage one is to get this message out of just the Farms and to as many places outside as possible.

Debanking (I know a misnomer but anyway) had a bit of a blip in the UK when British politician Nigel Farage was debanked for his political activities and opinions. In Canada, truckers were debanked for Covid protests. It's a tactic seeing growing use as more and more transactions become digital. Now is really the time to push this.

Most normal people aren't affected. They need to pay rent/mortgage, groceries, petrol gas and tickets to the game. Tentacle porn, radfem podcasts and e-celeb gossip forums aren't things the vast majority of people care about.

Even when they publicly show how truckers in Canada suddenly had their ability to live their life destroyed because they couldn't do digital transactions, people still sleep. And the government likes the current configuration. They like that they can ice Farage, truckers and other discontents.

 

[Tarlach]

Keep swiping and they'll keep funding child mutilation you sad little cardcattle slave

I don't like you much but I genuinely admire the self control you have to not just nighitler1488 anyone who gives you shit on your own website. Carry on.

 

[Maeis]

I can think of few things that are more potentially unifying to disparate groups than access to being able to buy and sell. There's nobody that doesn't need this. Whether you're Null, some deplatformed Radfem, or God help you, somebody trying to buy an erotic game on Steam - this is something you care about. Money is meaningless without the ability to send or receive it. Stage one is to get this message out of just the Farms and to as many places outside as possible.

The thing that has let the payment processors "get away" with it for so long is that debanking or deplatforming because of these processors never actually hits normies. Yes, porn addicts are normies now. So when they tried to do this, I have to assume they calculated the risk to their perception poorly. For example, before this outrage the processors went after Japanese adult retailers selling lolicon. Even some people on this site who I consider to be more intelligent about niche nerd shit think lolicon is just as bad as real CP. If kiwis are saying that what hope does the jap lolicon merchant have with normies?

 

[regalterry]

It reminds me of the Medieval Dark Ages where the church can rape entire harems of little boys, but the moment you start researching planets you're instantly executed for heresy (astrology and witchcraft specifically).

This is such a retarded, ignorant take. I hate to go off topic, but what the fuck?

While the Church has failed many times in protecting innocents from their own clergy, the number of abuse cases committed by priests pales in comparison to that of school teachers, by orders of magnitude yet nobody ever talks about those.

Also, Galileo didn't get fucked over because he said the Earth wasn't the center of the Solar System, but because he was a dick, and a dick to the Pope specifically.

And even then they didn't kill him, just told him to fuck off.

The Vatican has been responsible for a lot of scientific discoveries and are not adverse to scientific progress.

There's plenty of reasons to dislike the Vatican, but they are not the pop culture caricature you make them out to be.

 

[Maeis]

This is such a retarded, ignorant take. I hate to go off topic, but what the fuck?

While the Church has failed many times in protecting innocents from their own clergy, the number of abuse cases committed by priests pales in comparison to that of school teachers, by orders of magnitude yet nobody ever talks about those.

Also, Galileo didn't get fucked over because he said the Earth wasn't the center of the Solar System, but because he was a dick, and a dick to the Pope specifically.

And even then they didn't kill him, just told him to fuck off.

The Vatican has been responsible for a lot of scientific discoveries and are not adverse to scientific progress.

There's plenty of reasons to dislike the Vatican, but they are not the pop culture caricature you make them out to be.

To be fair, that belief is very commonly taught in school/in media. I thought the exact same shit.

 

[Looseleaf Paper]

Null, I have a plan but you will have to play the long game.
1. You MUST have passionate sex with a big booty, spicy, Floridian, Latinx. She will then birth your son.
2. You then raise your son for one purpose, become a employee of Visa Card and use his Latinx "Brownie" points to move up in the company.
3. Once he becomes an executive, he can gut the belly of the beast from the inside, and you will be able to watch on your death bed as Visa collapses, and he bring the rest of them down with it.

Now to keep my post on Topic:
If your first born in a daughter you will have to start over because lord knows a worthless hole woman could never execute the plan correctly.

 

[Hey Johnny Bravo]

That's not hyperbole, Discover has been around for half a fucking century and is still trying to convince people you can use it to buy things despite being owned by fucking Capital One. How do you think KiwiCard fairs?

"With KiwiCard, you choose that Jews lose!" You'll become the payment processor for the entire Middle East.

 

[StacticShock]

I wonder if Trump's obsession with "stablecoins" is actually an anti-Visa/MasterCard thing.

there is a thing some people mention that may be true or not but credit transactions are a tax cutoff that never goes back to the guberment, so much so bananaland has a law that credit purchases can be charged whatever extra price the seller feels like it, money and bill purchases can be given up to a 5% discount and PIX purchases up to 15% discount.

pix might look like the best option but once you realize it is a digital transaction that every receipt is sent directly to the central bank it all makes sense as it makes tax evasion really hard to do.

if Trump manages to get stablecoins adopted then it's good from a tax perspective as the money won't be fleeced by jewish credit magics.

Then is it literally just the rush of power of being able to deny people they don't like? I just figured it was more complicated than that.

jews are retarded, there isn't much to it.

 

[Do Not Touch Me Pls]

To be fair, that belief is very commonly taught in school/in media. I thought the exact same shit.

And schools do not teach real history, they teach revisionist history.

All in all the situation is the exact same here (this is to bring it on topic).

The ruling class can ruin your life and curate you for the most pettiest reasons imaginable while they engage in things arranging from pedophilia and genocide. It's a huge contradiction that has been happening since millennia and only happens with the Jews and Zionists and nowhere else.

This is such a retarded, ignorant take. I hate to go off topic, but what the fuck?

While the Church has failed many times in protecting innocents from their own clergy, the number of abuse cases committed by priests pales in comparison to that of school teachers, by orders of magnitude yet nobody ever talks about those.

Also, Galileo didn't get fucked over because he said the Earth wasn't the center of the Solar System, but because he was a dick, and a dick to the Pope specifically.

And even then they didn't kill him, just told him to fuck off.

The Vatican has been responsible for a lot of scientific discoveries and are not adverse to scientific progress.

There's plenty of reasons to dislike the Vatican, but they are not the pop culture caricature you make them out to be.

This is what (((they))) want you to think. The Medieval Era is ass backwards compared to Ancient Rome. Knowledge and scientific progress is eschewed for serfdom and rat plagues. Entire faiths are burnt down because their faith is not those of the King of Israel.

Also Galleo is not an appropriate example because during the time Galleo was a thing (this was around 1600) the church's control is much weaker compared to the period I am describing. I'm talking about 500 AD to 1500 AD where the church is the absolute moral, spiritual and political authority.

jews are retarded, there isn't much to it.

When your entire purpose is to forcefully obliterate and convert everything better than you came up and do, then you do not need to be smart. You only need to do harm.

---

Also I've heard the "building your own payment processor" and "use crypto" argument here. Even when disregarding how impractical and cope this entire idea is, it does not work and does not solve the root issue.

Most of the people who consume the sort of media have no idea how to search for alternatives and there is no way most of them know how to use crypto. Things like Gab or Odysee fail and become echo chambers because no normie will see it on purpose. You need to think from the perspective of someone that is not tech savvy, it's going to make things more complicated to stave off an institution that will inevitably get to you. It's just running away from the issue at hand and it's extremely impractical.

 

[Maeis]

jews are retarded, there isn't much to it.

My knee-jerk reaction to stuff like this is "okay, why is it the jews and if it is, what do they get out of it?"

 

[Maxtrot]

View attachment 7677111
Reminds me of this moment.

Completely deserved, btw. Russians spend an endless amount of time talking about their alternatives to western services that leave or attempt to leave them, like the massive shill campaign for VK Play. You'd think a nation that shrugged off sanctions, leads it's own power bloc and has a respectable economic output would back up its boasts. All they've done so far is deliver underwhelming "solutions" and suck cock like everyone else.

 

[Overly Serious]

The purpose of a system is what it does.

More people need to understand this. It should be popularised as common wisdom.

Most normal people aren't affected.

The thing that has let the payment processors "get away" with it for so long is that debanking or deplatforming because of these processors never actually hits normies.

To both of the above, it doesn't require "most" people to be affected. Large changes in society routinely come about through the determined action of a minority. My point, and it stands, is that there are very few causes that are as broad-reaching and unifying as the ability to make everyday transactions. The Left routinely attempts to co-opt any minority group it can imagine no matter how disparate, to achieve its ends. It'll even try to create a banner that incorporates LGBTQ and Islam. How much easier to get people on board when they actually do have a genuine need in common? Spread this and spread it wide, help it escape the bounds of KiwiFarms.

People who say you can't get change unless everyone acts, I want to smack upside the head with a history book.