George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

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"Dark Winds" is mid and he needs to finish his own shit before fucking up someone else's.
 
LORD IMPERATOR said:
One thing that makes me wonder is why Lyonel BARATHEON couldn't just fill Ser Duncan's entire roster with Stormlands knights. I mean, he is the heir to Storm's End, and many Stormlands knights were probably at the tourney, since this takes place in the Reach and the Stormlands are right next door to them. They even share a hatred for Dorne. So if anything, them being one man short made no sense.
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It also makes no sense in terms of where House Targaryen is in terms of power. They have no dragons and half of them are openly incompetent or too young to know how to maintain power and rule. It's the perfect opportunity to test the waters openly against them but in the safest way possible because you're fighting in a trial by combat where even if you kill a Targaryen there cannot be direct consequences. The most powerful house had the opportunity to throw its best six knights into the fold and have a massive political power boost for humbling the Targaryens.
 
TheHarbinger said:
It also makes no sense in terms of where House Targaryen is in terms of power. They have no dragons and half of them are openly incompetent or too young to know how to maintain power and rule. It's the perfect opportunity to test the waters openly against them but in the safest way possible because you're fighting in a trial by combat where even if you kill a Targaryen there cannot be direct consequences. The most powerful house had the opportunity to throw its best six knights into the fold and have a massive political power boost for humbling the Targaryens.
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Not only that, but the Targaryens were morally and legally in the wrong, going against their mandate of being pillars of society by picking on a hedge knight and a puppeteer, crippling the latter and trying to kill the former. So if a high lord and six of his knights manage to humble them in trial by combat by taking Ser Duncan's side, not only would that be a prestige win, but it would also be a religious win, since God sided with the just, and the just person so happened to be this lord and his knights.

Especially since, as Prince Baelor highlighted, the Trial by Seven is an even more religious version of trial by combat, where both teams have seven men to each honor the seven gods of the Andals, so not only would you gain prestige over the royal family, but it would be religious prestige, which is even more powerful in an age of faith. "God sided with you against the royal family" is one hell of a morale and prestige boost for any noble family.
 
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Absolutego said:
I thought it was three, not four. Fun fact I cottoned on to, once I read the Dunk books:

You know how he always refers to himself as "thick as a castle wall" in his internal narrative? There's 3 characters described that way at one/multiple points in the ASOIAF books:
- Brienne
- Hodor
- Small Paul (the big dude on the Night's Watch)
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Timeline doesn't work for Hodor. Old Nan is indeed too old for that to work
 
LORD IMPERATOR said:
One thing that makes me wonder is why Lyonel BARATHEON couldn't just fill Ser Duncan's entire roster with Stormlands knights. I mean, he is the heir to Storm's End, and many Stormlands knights were probably at the tourney, since this takes place in the Reach and the Stormlands are right next door to them. They even share a hatred for Dorne. So if anything, them being one man short made no sense. I can just imagine them being one man short, then Lyonel goes over to the knights who jousted in the previous day and pulls some favor with some knight who served a lord that was sworn as a vassal to his family.
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Because the trial was about honor, about believing whether Dunk was innocent or not. The Kingsguard are different because they're sworn to defend the royal family, but you can't force people to do what they might not like or believe.

IICR, Frey didn't support the Tullys until a marriage was agreed. Tywin didn't send men to help Aerys either.
 
Tasty Tatty said:
Because the trial was about honor, about believing whether Dunk was innocent or not. The Kingsguard are different because they're sworn to defend the royal family, but you can't force people to do what they might not like or believe.

IICR, Frey didn't support the Tullys until a marriage was agreed. Tywin didn't send men to help Aerys either.
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I'm pretty sure you can influence several lords or knights; especially since the Targaryens aren't necessarily popular in the Reach and Stormlands for making peace with Dorne. More than a few still bear the scars of war from the Dornish wars and the first Blackfyre Rebellion, the latter of which involved Targ bullshit causing the realm to splinter in half for the second time. Third, if you count Maegor vs. the faith. At that point, not only can Baratheon influence Stormlander knights to join, but more than a few lords and knights who are tired of Targ bullshit would also join.

Also, Aerys wasn't in a position to demand shit, since his army was lost. As for Frey, he wasn't clear if Robb would win against Tywin, especially since he also swore oaths to the throne. That, plus Tywin and Walder are prickly, self-serving men who don't give two shits about honor outside of protecting their family name. Walder and Tywin would've just hanged Ser Duncan and be done with it.
 
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Based purely on the helmets, rate the rank and file for each faction:

Stark
images (2).jpeg

Lannister
helmet.png

Baratheon
Stannis-Baratheon-game-of-thrones-s5.webp

Bolton
p05rkaH.jpeg

Arryn
CMHQkzD.png

Greyjoy
87va275hk9ue1.jpeg

Tyrell
f07f4ca1d2529e0a949f0ac0efde548a.jpg
 
Hugbox Kommissar said:
Based purely on the helmets, rate the rank and file for each faction:

Stark
View attachment 8711436

Lannister
View attachment 8711437

Baratheon
View attachment 8711438

Bolton
View attachment 8711439

Arryn
View attachment 8711440

Greyjoy
View attachment 8711441

Tyrell
View attachment 8711482
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Lannister helmets are just fucking stupid. I can see no real-world comparison, and the face guard would make it impossible to see Jack and shit, even for an enclosed helmet. F-Tier, fitting for the dumbest of the Great Houses.

On the flipside, the Stormland Baratheon troops have something that actually looks like a Burgundy Sallet, and those things were cool. Definitely top of the list. Honorable mentions to the Starks for using a more conventional Italian sallet, and it is interesting to give the Boltons what look like cabassets. Mildly surprised there wasn't a notable usage of kettle helms, considering that the show is supposedly set during a time and place that would analogous to when and where they were most common.
 
Flaming Insignias said:
Lannister helmets are just fucking stupid. I can see no real-world comparison, and the face guard would make it impossible to see Jack and shit, even for an enclosed helmet. F-Tier, fitting for the dumbest of the Great Houses.
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I appreciate that they were trying to go for something more oriental/fantastic and actually cover up their eyes since the Lannisters are the Bad Guy House, but it simply does not work. I remember a behind the scenes bit where they were super proud of how it resembled a kabuto, especially when the mask was open/flared out, but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
Absolutego said:
I appreciate that they were trying to go for something more oriental/fantastic and actually cover up their eyes since the Lannisters are the Bad Guy House, but it simply does not work. I remember a behind the scenes bit where they were super proud of how it resembled a kabuto, especially when the mask was open/flared out, but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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It only looks like a kabuto if you really squint, but even then it just feels stupid. That crest is thoroughly unforgivable in my opinion, and the mask just makes them like utterly dopey for what is supposedly the proud army of a notoriously relentless house.
 
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Hugbox Kommissar said:
Based purely on the helmets, rate the rank and file for each faction:

Stark
View attachment 8711436

Lannister
View attachment 8711437

Baratheon
View attachment 8711438

Bolton
View attachment 8711439

Arryn
View attachment 8711440

Greyjoy
View attachment 8711441

Tyrell
View attachment 8711482
Click to expand...
from the show design, i only really like bolton, and lannister's ok but i share the thread opinion of it. from the art of the gacha phone game at least that seemed to use better proportions, bolton's armor etc can look pretty sick and "real", while lannister is like a dollar tree stormtrooper, but it wins out by that. none of the rest are very unique, they didn't rip off any of the more iconic classical irl designs, and they also don't theme factions very well. big boys like sandor have the unique helmets but otherwise it's hard at a glance to go "oh they're x", besides bolton and lannister essentially.

i suppose it would have also been tacky, but there's a decent amount of room to have very easily had factions' gear divided more into "themes" and looked better. like lannister, i generally imagine them having more "rich people" type plate and armor, best money can buy, significant defense etc, but also with a focus on more roman-esque decorative shit for dick swinging, the lion-symbolism etc. cruel but grand.

greyjoy i think have missed opportunities to be more visually interesting; which is their "iron price" for jewelry. it could be interesting if instead of generic vikings or pirates, you adopt that to their armor etc; mishmashes of various people they kill, the best parts or the best they found. almost like goblins or orcs from some lotr designs, just "ima take that niggas shoes/helmet". leader might have lannister/bolton armor, fodder might have leather etc. maybe not EXCLUSIVELY, like basic gear too, but it just seems like something that'd naturally click into their culture and should be more prominently seen. trophies etc.

damn near everything with tyrell is described as flowery and sexy and beautiful, imo bare minimum they should have similar shit to griffith's armor from berserk, closer to more style than substance. their helmets are shit and i hate them tbh. loras looks pretty good in the show but the rank and file look trashy.

i think bolton was done pretty well, but i think they/martin really should have leaned more into vlad the impaler influence, like a focus on curved instead of straight swords for bleeding opponents. more "cruel" armor would probably get kind of retarded but when the entire faction is the land of the sadomasochists, i'd kind of expect more spiky shit. they're like walking war crimes. utility and inflicting pain over style or honor etc.

stannis's armor's pretty fucking lame. he's supposed to be essentially king arthur, and the heart/redness should have a lot more OOMPH. like crusaders. maybe even lean into the spanish inquisition's gear and conquistador's sets. but from what they present they're basically fully behind r'hllor, then melisandre, then stannis in that order. religious symbols/colors should be VERY fucking obvious, and stannis' armor doesn't look kingly, it doesn't even really look *finished*. it's like he threw off some of it to look cooler. they all look like that without the robe shit, like awful human nazguls. the big boy unique armors with antlers etc are cool but basic armor's just shitty imo.
 
Birthday Cat said:
i think bolton was done pretty well, but i think they/martin really should have leaned more into vlad the impaler influence, like a focus on curved instead of straight swords for bleeding opponents. more "cruel" armor would probably get kind of retarded but when the entire faction is the land of the sadomasochists, i'd kind of expect more spiky shit. they're like walking war crimes. utility and inflicting pain over style or honor etc.
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I really like the Bolton's kettle helms but they were definitely done dirty by the costume department just shoving everyone into black/brown leather post season 4. Fwiw the minis skirmish game does have them as a "heavy" faction: heavy armored cavalry, footmen with spiked shields and war flails, war dogs etc.
 
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