Unschooling - We don't need no education.

[Jewelsmakerguy]

Lolcows like these are literate, but they don't have a very worthwhile education. Gender studies doesn't mean much, and I've actually never met anyone who studied it, which suggests they aren't actually that common off the Internet.

That's the problem, they're literate. Yet they still feel the need to think they're all that and more. Especially when it comes to topics they have no business talking about. Like education.

 

[Erica]

I keep thinking to the parents approach on skills that you wouldn't necessarily get inside the public schooling system.

For example in order to get better at say, a band instrument such as the flute, the best students in band typically had private lessons after school once a week, since the band wasn't going to take you super far. Would these parents take their kids to private lessons, or is that too close to actual school? Would they ever get to play on a sports team if they wanted, since there would be a coach (homeschools do have their own sports networks and such, for those unaware)?

 

[CatFace]

I keep thinking to the parents approach on skills that you wouldn't necessarily get inside the public schooling system.

For example in order to get better at say, a band instrument such as the flute, the best students in band typically had private lessons after school once a week, since the band wasn't going to take you super far. Would these parents take their kids to private lessons, or is that too close to actual school? Would they ever get to play on a sports team if they wanted, since there would be a coach (homeschools do have their own sports networks and such, for those unaware)?

I doubt most kids who have had basically zero access to any resources would even have an idea that getting a tutor is possible. Unschoolers sound like the type of people who upon hearing their kid likes a subject would do absolutely nothing to help them with it. Maybe if they were specifically asked about it but how does a kid ask something like that?

The sports oriented kids might have a bit more of a chance.

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I keep thinking to the parents approach on skills that you wouldn't necessarily get inside the public schooling system.

For example in order to get better at say, a band instrument such as the flute, the best students in band typically had private lessons after school once a week, since the band wasn't going to take you super far. Would these parents take their kids to private lessons, or is that too close to actual school? Would they ever get to play on a sports team if they wanted, since there would be a coach (homeschools do have their own sports networks and such, for those unaware)?

Formal training isn't really necessary to learn to play an instrument. Practice is what really matters, though I doubt unschoolers are disciplined enough for that.

 

[Wallace]

Formal training isn't really necessary to learn to play an instrument. Practice is what really matters, though I doubt unschoolers are disciplined enough for that.

Between the kids living in a world of instant gratification, and parents keeping them sheltered from anything that might even resemble discomfort, discipline is not a virtue that will develop.

There's the core problem with this kind of parenting; the parent cannot stand to see the child unhappy. If their child is free from all hardship and unhappiness, their natural goodness will bloom and they will love their parent, right?

Wrong. That kind of parenting keeps children at the emotional level of an infant for their entire lives. They never learn how to do things for themselves, how to be independent or even develop a separate identity from overbearing Mommy. It makes me wonder if this isn't a more sinister goal on the parent's side; keeping their child in a state of perpetual infancy in order to reap the benefits of having the child as their--I don't know. Maybe source of attention? Infinite, unconditional love? (And how does that work out in the end, hmm?)

 

[ScrewTheRules]

Formal training isn't really necessary to learn to play an instrument. Practice is what really matters, though I doubt unschoolers are disciplined enough for that.

Actually, it kind of is. Self-taught musicians can pick up a lot of bad habits which can stop you progressing past a certain point, and you can spend years playing an instrument only to realise you have to go back and relearn everything because of a flaw in your technique. If you want your kid to be good enough of a musician to make a career of it, since these kids won't have any other job prospects, you need to spring for lessons.

I keep thinking to the parents approach on skills that you wouldn't necessarily get inside the public schooling system.

For example in order to get better at say, a band instrument such as the flute, the best students in band typically had private lessons after school once a week, since the band wasn't going to take you super far. Would these parents take their kids to private lessons, or is that too close to actual school? Would they ever get to play on a sports team if they wanted, since there would be a coach (homeschools do have their own sports networks and such, for those unaware)?

If they did this then somebody would notice how pitiful the kid's education is, and might try to intervene. The parents won't risk that.

 

[Bungleboy]

This thread just proved to me that we should have violently suppressed the hippies back in the day

 

[Hummingbird]

This thread just proved to me that we should have violently suppressed the hippies back in the day

From what I hear, a chunk of them are nutso survivalists (who are far from the left).

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

From what I hear, a chunk of them are nutso survivalists (who are far from the left).

This one seems a bit like the anti-vaxx crowd, extremists from both sides being able to come together and decide to fuck over their children's futures.

 

[Trilby]

This one seems a bit like the anti-vaxx crowd, extremists from both sides being able to come together and decide to fuck over their children's futures.

So I guess it just kinda comes full circle then.

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

It seems like these people are pretty intent on setting up their children for failure, but TBH I think they should be allowed to do so. However if their kids want to go to school anyway, they should be able to override their parents' decision. I mean these people seem to be predominately exceptional, but I disagree that the state should be able to force schooling on people, I think it's ultimately a bad precedent.

 

[Dysnomia]

It seems like these people are pretty intent on setting up their children for failure, but TBH I think they should be allowed to do so. However if their kids want to go to school anyway, they should be able to override their parents' decision. I mean these people seem to be predominately exceptional, but I disagree that the state should be able to force schooling on people, I think it's ultimately a bad precedent.

But at the age school typically starts a child is too young to understand the consequences of not getting an education. The fact that they are free to snack, play games and watch cartoons all day instead of learning to read and write is seen as awesome when you are five or six years old and would rather play and eat fruit snacks.

Parents that can't see what a disaster they are visiting upon their kids' futures should be held accountable for that. I think compulsory schooling is necessary. Maybe for some teens who are still too young to quit something in the line of transferring to job training instead of standard curriculum would actually be a good idea. But these unschooled kids are pretty much going nowhere in life thanks to their exceptional parents.

I always fear it could be a cover up for abuse in some cases. Just look at the Schofields and their two "schizophrenic" kids. Just heavily medicated zombies whose entire childhoods have been a blur.

 

[friedshrimp]

Would homeschooling be added to this line of thought? I've seen so many homeschooled kids get so defensive about their "education" and how bitter they are for not going to college...

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

This one seems a bit like the anti-vaxx crowd, extremists from both sides being able to come together and decide to fuck over their children's futures.

It allows access to a diversity of views. What happens when the kid whose parents are hippie liberal fruitcakes meet the kid whose parents are anti-government militia nuts? After the militia nut kid's parents move from their trailer/compound in Nowhere, Idaho to California.

Would homeschooling be added to this line of thought? I've seen so many homeschooled kids get so defensive about their "education" and how bitter they are for not going to college...

Depends on the quality of the homeschooling. Sometimes you have people actually qualified to teach do the homeschooling, sometimes you have groups of homeschooling families cooperating on the education (quality variable), a lot of the time you have Christian fundamentalists park their kid down with a mixture of religious texts and creationist propaganda which is really bad even by creationist standards and just have them to the "work" required, occasionally you have the Ku Klux Klan doing homeschooling.

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

But at the age school typically starts a child is too young to understand the consequences of not getting an education. The fact that they are free to snack, play games and watch cartoons all day instead of learning to read and write is seen as awesome when you are five or six years old and would rather play and eat fruit snacks.

Parents that can't see what a disaster they are visiting upon their kids' futures should be held accountable for that. I think compulsory schooling is necessary. Maybe for some teens who are still too young to quit something in the line of transferring to job training instead of standard curriculum would actually be a good idea. But these unschooled kids are pretty much going nowhere in life thanks to their exceptional parents.

I always fear it could be a cover up for abuse in some cases. Just look at the Schofields and their two "schizophrenic" kids. Just heavily medicated zombies whose entire childhoods have been a blur.

I suppose I should clarify;

My thinking is that we should allow for people to carve their own path, mistakes included. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be held accountable for their errors though. I'm thinking education and other similar responsibilities should be packaged with governmental privileges; so if you want society to support you, then you need to educate your child to society's expectations, or if you want to use the roads then you need to pay your taxes, etc.

I feel that people shouldn't be forced into non-negotiable contracts. I mean if some parents want to raise a nonverbal neet who can only communicate through minecraft's scripting language, they should be able to do so, as long as they bear the responsibility of the results. There will be extreme cases, but I think it is not without benefit, as sometimes an alternative learning method may actually produce good results. However, we can't explore that potential if we push everybody down the same path.

I just don't think we should force all people follow to the same path, though I'll acknowledge doing so has some real benefits, and the alternatives have some real problems. I get that children can't be trusted to make good decisions, but that's what parents are for. and if their biological parents aren't allowed to parent them, then the government takes their place, and that isn't always going to be for the better.


For real though, the people brought up in this thread seem to be pretty exceptional.

 

[ScrewTheRules]

I feel that people shouldn't be forced into non-negotiable contracts.

Except that people NEED to be forced into some non negotiable contracts. "I don't murder you and you don't murder me" is an unnegotiable contact; you can't negotiate it down to "you don't murder me and I only murder you a little bit", and if you decide to break that contract then you go to jail. Not being able to deliberately fuck up your children's lives is a non negotiable contact, and if you break it then your children should be taken away. Denying you children fundamental education to which you have access IS deliberately fucking up your children's lives.

 

[Strange Looking Dog]

Except that people NEED to be forced into some non negotiable contracts. "I don't murder yoy and you don't murder me" is an unnegotiable contact; you can't negotiate it down to "you don't murder me and I only murder you a little bit", and if you decide to break that contract then you go to jail. Not being able to deliberately fuck up your children's lives is a non negotiable contact, and if you break it then your children should be taken away. Denying you children fundamental education to which you have access IS deliberately fucking up your children's lives.

Your name is @ScrewTheRules lol

 

[Mrs Paul]

Yeah, let's allow people to fuck up their child, because freedom!

 

[Piga Dgrifm]

Yeah, let's allow people to fuck up their child, because freedom!

I have a constitutional right to destroy other people.

 

[Maggots on a Train]

Kentucky architecture circa 1700s.

The best some lazy ass white trash can cobble together in 2016.

Fuck you, dumpster dad. I hope Indians steal your woman, and I can't even a-log because everybody else is already going to die of dysentery because you literally shit where you eat. Daniel Boone wept.