Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

[BrunoMattei]

The thing about Mark that I really like is that he seems genuine about almost every role he plays. He really cares about these characters and what makes them tick. That's why it's hard to watch him shill what Rian did to Luke because you know he hates it just as much as we all do.

Honestly, him playing the Joker for 20+ years has brought him more joy than the sudden crash and burn of playing Luke again.

He was fun to watch in The Guyver too.

 

[Flexo]

He was fun to watch in The Guyver too.

For those who don't know.

 

[Somar]

So Ant Man and the Wasp just passed Solo's domestic box office total

Even if it's only slighty, it still shows just how damaged Star Wars is when even a film about arguably the MCU's least popular character manages to make more money than a film about one of the most beloved SW characters.

 

[Ruin]

The character that wasn't even popular enough to be included in Infinity Wars is beating Star Wars.

 

[Zaryiu]

The character that wasn't even popular enough to be included in Infinity Wars is beating Star Wars.

Fucking hell i wish they'd take that as the obvious wake up call it is but they won't

 

[Creep3r]

Tell me about it. TFA was a carbon copy of ANH, but it was enjoyable. Back then, I wasn't thrilled with them playing it too safe, but I was looking forward to the new movie, thinking that maybe, if it's not too much like ESB, it might have a chance.
I hoped they'd do something that's not ripping off ESB. Well, guess it just goes to show: "be careful what you wish for, it might just come true".

Personally, I wouldn't have minded if the movie was a carbon copy of ANH or a full blown reboot (I honestly would've preferred the latter since if it was either good or bad, it wouldn't have tarnished the legacy of the characters and the original films). My main problem with film was that it was a soft reboot that nullified the achievements of its predecessor and heroes which only helped to fuel Rian's crazy view that the saga was symbolic of failure and destruction of the old, so JJ's handling wasn't much different.

The tarnishing of the achievements of the heroes like Disney/JJ/Rian/Kennedy have done is what made many casual fans hated the old pre-Disney stories that took place after the OT like the Dark Empire and the Vong because they seemingly nullified the achievements of their predecessors by introducing disasters and tragedies on a grander scale while killing off beloved characters and settings (Chewie, Mara and Coruscant, etc), and then the Disney Trilogy goes and does the same thing but far FAR worse while tarnishing the legacies of its heroes in the eyes of not just their galaxy but in the eyes of the audience/fans.

Now for some parallels and where things get worse:
In the Dark Empire and Vong, Luke briefly falls to the Dark Side (but returns to the light and still manages to bring back the jedi himself without a problem, establishes a whole new academy and jedi order, gets laid, becomes one of the most powerful and celebrated jedi in history and has a great son who even Mark Hamill loved), Han and Leia have marital problems (but they recover and despite having one r-etard son, they still have one good kid to be proud of and Leia remains a beloved and important figure in politics and the royal ruler of New Alderaan), Coruscant seemingly gets fucked and some beloved characters die needlessly (but Coruscant is restored with more greenery and the losses are remembered fondly and died epically ie Chewie and Mara).

In TFA, Luke fails at bringing back the jedi, his jedi academy bombs, he fails his nephew/student and then he goes into hiding like a coward and doesn't bother to contact anyone for ages yet for some reason leaves a bunch of map mcguffins scattered about to find him in case something goes wrong (even though he could've just told someone where he was going and he did in the form of R2 but he shut him down for no real reason) despite going into a self-imposed exile and all of his achievements are treated as the stuff of myth while Han's Kessel Run makes peoples' eyes shine and in TLJ dies a lonely virgin who is such a douchebag he puts the emos on the Dark Side to shame, hell he might've been better off falling to it, and was revealed to be responsible for Kylo's fall because of a moronic vision which prompted him to kill the kid in his sleep for some reason. Han and Leia have only one kid who is a disastrous emo failure and they get a divorce, Leia becomes hated by the very Republic she helped to establish, is reduced to being the meager general of the Ret ard Rebels Resistance and her ex-husband is unable to make a decent living despite of his reputation and is forced to go back into petty smuggling and is hunted down like a dog by others with no fame or rep outside of the Kessel Run, then ends up dying at the hands of his r-etard son and falling into a chasm to be forgotten while Chewie instead of going out like a hero becomes Rey's pet dog who just follows everyone around and stays quiet whilst Leia gives Rey loving hugs despite her barely knowing Han for more than a few days. In TFA they just blow up Coruscant but then decide to retcon that for some reason into being just another generic planet showing they didn't even have the balls to make a drastic change like that despite having the balls to fuck up beloved characters on a grand scale. And then JJ in an interview goes out of his way to say that he doesn't want to diminish Luke and Anakin's roles in the "prophecy" of vanquishing the Sith and bringing balance to the force, but still goes ahead and creates Not-Vader Ren who is basically just as powerful as a sith, if not more so just for the nostalgia factor and then brings even more chaos to the Force with shit like Snoke and if the title of TFA is anything to go by the Force has been asleep for 30 years, effectively nullifying another legacy of the heroes he supposedly wanted to preserve, so in the end both JJ and Rian were terrible choices for the Sequel Trilogy, only made worse by the rumor that now JJ wants to turn Kylo into a sympathetic savior figure.

To sum it up, the heroes become losers and then die like losers, except Leia because Kennedy has a boner for her or something (so they have to keep dragging around that corpse), and have their legacies ruined only for these new nobodies to come along and fix their mistakes because they're so much better than the heroes that came before them (because Disney really wants to make sure they get exclusive royalties for all the new stuff). I could go on but I don't want this wall of text getting any longer. Fuck me, I always had issues with the Dark Empire and absolutely hated the Vong storyline with an unbearable passion, but Disney has actually made me prefer that old dim future (and actually love Dark Empire) of old post-OT lore which now looks like sunshine and sparkles compared to the endlessly dark and fart-infested future Disney has created.

 

[Mola Ram]

Luke fails at bringing back the jedi, his jedi academy bombs,

This is possibly the single biggest misstep of the sequels, and the error from which all the other garbage sprang. Everyone wanted to see what kind of restored Jedi Order Luke would have managed to forge, and even if you think subverting the audience's expectations is always the way to go, then what exactly was the point of RETURN of the Jedi? Why bother with all the hoopla? Shall we extend the title to Return of the Jedi for a Few Brief Months Before Luke Fucks It All Up?

 

[JohnDoe]

This is possibly the single biggest misstep of the sequels, and the error from which all the other garbage sprang. Everyone wanted to see what kind of restored Jedi Order Luke would have managed to forge, and even if you think subverting the audience's expectations is always the way to go, then what exactly was the point of RETURN of the Jedi? Why bother with all the hoopla? Shall we extend the title to Return of the Jedi for a Few Brief Months Before Luke Fucks It All Up?

As much as the SJW excuse brigade tries to build the strawman that fans wanted Han, Luke and Leia to be exactly the same as at the end of RoTJ, its just not true. Fans would have LOVED to see Old Sage Jedi Master Luke with a new academy and generation of knights (Also Mara Jade is totally his still-hot wife). That was the direction his arc was heading and it naturally dovetails with the passing of the lightsaber/heroship to a new actor. Aside from having that be the source of the Jedi character in the sequel trilogy you could do an entire spin-off movie or trilogy just about the Academy. People would line up around the block for that, even in China!

But you know, Disney.

 

[Creep3r]

As much as the SJW excuse brigade tries to build the strawman that fans wanted Han, Luke and Leia to be exactly the same as at the end of RoTJ, its just not true. Fans would have LOVED to see Old Sage Jedi Master Luke with a new academy and generation of knights (Also Mara Jade is totally his still-hot wife). That was the direction his arc was heading and it naturally dovetails with the passing of the lightsaber/heroship to a new actor. Aside from having that be the source of the Jedi character in the sequel trilogy you could do an entire spin-off movie or trilogy just about the Academy. People would line up around the block for that, even in China!

But you know, Disney.

I wouldn't even have minded them killing Luke (okay maybe a little) or having Rey still exist as the ultimate Mary Sue (only a little) so long as we got to see him managing a glorious jedi academy and him being a proud old man with a hot gilf wife and a son he was proud to name his successor. Hell give me the Academy Trilogy any day over this.

 

[BrunoMattei]

As much as the SJW excuse brigade tries to build the strawman that fans wanted Han, Luke and Leia to be exactly the same as at the end of RoTJ, its just not true. Fans would have LOVED to see Old Sage Jedi Master Luke with a new academy and generation of knights (Also Mara Jade is totally his still-hot wife). That was the direction his arc was heading and it naturally dovetails with the passing of the lightsaber/heroship to a new actor. Aside from having that be the source of the Jedi character in the sequel trilogy you could do an entire spin-off movie or trilogy just about the Academy. People would line up around the block for that, even in China!

But you know, Disney.

You know? I wouldn't put it past Disney to just pretend Last Jedi never happened. It's not that crazy of an idea, the new Halloween movie is doing that.

The new movie ignores all of the sequels including the idea that Laurie Strode is Myers' sister. And there were talks of an Aliens sequel that ignored the events of Alien 3 and Resurrection. It got scrapped of course but it shows that the studios are willing to do shit like that.

 

[mrdk_04]

TL;DR: Disney wasted the importance and legacy of the OT (and even the PT) because of greed and arrogance.
As bad as Legends got, it never was this bad storywise.

Even the lore has been refitted (Snoke's "light meets dark" speech) to portray a perpetual conflict that will go on forever. Lucasfilm doesn't have the balls to carry out Kreia's will and effectively dooms everyone involved in SW for all eternity.
I think all of us here can unanimously agree on this.

@GeneralFriendliness are you okay?
You really sperged out there.

This is possibly the single biggest misstep of the sequels, and the error from which all the other garbage sprang. Everyone wanted to see what kind of restored Jedi Order Luke would have managed to forge, and even if you think subverting the audience's expectations is always the way to go, then what exactly was the point of RETURN of the Jedi? Why bother with all the hoopla? Shall we extend the title to Return of the Jedi for a Few Brief Months Before Luke Fucks It All Up?

As much as the SJW excuse brigade tries to build the strawman that fans wanted Han, Luke and Leia to be exactly the same as at the end of RoTJ, its just not true. Fans would have LOVED to see Old Sage Jedi Master Luke with a new academy and generation of knights (Also Mara Jade is totally his still-hot wife). That was the direction his arc was heading and it naturally dovetails with the passing of the lightsaber/heroship to a new actor. Aside from having that be the source of the Jedi character in the sequel trilogy you could do an entire spin-off movie or trilogy just about the Academy. People would line up around the block for that, even in China!

But you know, Disney.

I wouldn't even have minded them killing Luke (okay maybe a little) or having Rey still exist as the ultimate Mary Sue (only a little) so long as we got to see him managing a glorious jedi academy and him being a proud old man with a hot gilf wife and a son he was proud to name his successor. Hell give me the Academy Trilogy any day over this.

Thing is, I'm not entirely opposed to Luke hitting rock bottom or Leia and Han being miserable.
It just happened, they die and aside from Luke's """battle""" ( and the nonsensical spreading of that tale as well as the Rebel's escape) with Kylo and Han's death hinting at an instability in Kylo, their legacy and existence means nothing and everything they fought for is worse off than ever, aside from the sacred texts that Rey obtained.

Kylo has now become truly evil, Leia and Han's falling out is irrelevant, the New Republic is dead, the Rebels are essentially dead, the Empire is back and stronger than ever, the Force and the OT's exploits have become myth once more and the entire galaxy is so pathetic that within the span of 2 generations, they let the equivalent of the NSDAP rule the world AGAIN.

If any of the writers of this shitshow were actually fans, or actually cared about these incredibly baseline observations, we might've gotten something bearable.

You know? I wouldn't put it past Disney to just pretend Last Jedi never happened. It's not that crazy of an idea, the new Halloween movie is doing that.

The new movie ignores all of the sequels including the idea that Laurie Strode is Myers' sister. And there were talks of an Aliens sequel that ignored the events of Alien 3 and Resurrection. It got scrapped of course but it shows that the studios are willing to do shit like that.

These situations aren't even remotely comparable.
In both cases there were/are talks about ignoring decade(s) old movies in favor of a fresh start, nu-SW has a span of 2 years. Besides, given the backlash is far more vocal now then before, with the popularity of social media, Disney would be admitting a mistake.
Big companies can't do that unless they have a sacrificial lamb, and RJ will certainly not be led to the slaughter. Perhaps IX will need to appease the gods and JJ's head might roll, but they need to double down on TLJ atm.
They have no other choice.

 

[Creep3r]

You know? I wouldn't put it past Disney to just pretend Last Jedi never happened. It's not that crazy of an idea, the new Halloween movie is doing that.

The new movie ignores all of the sequels including the idea that Laurie Strode is Myers' sister. And there were talks of an Aliens sequel that ignored the events of Alien 3 and Resurrection. It got scrapped of course but it shows that the studios are willing to do shit like that.

Unlikely. Disney already invested billions in a new park based around TFA, Rogue One and TLJ (among other things) and other than that, if they retcon this it'd basically be them admitting to their audience and their investors/partners that they were wrong and foolish. Disney execs would never allow themselves to admit that they made themselves look like fools to their partners or rivals unless they absolutely had to. They'd rather go on with the "I was only pretending to be r-etarded/All part of the master plan" narrative and claim that their short comings with these films was fueled by virtuous politics and artistic/creative integrity rather than incompetence and greed.

 

[Zaryiu]

Personally, I wouldn't have minded if the movie was a carbon copy of ANH or a full blown reboot (I honestly would've preferred the latter since if it was either good or bad, it wouldn't have tarnished the legacy of the characters and the original films). My main problem with film was that it was a soft reboot that nullified the achievements of its predecessor and heroes which only helped to fuel Rian's crazy view that the saga was symbolic of failure and destruction of the old, so JJ's handling wasn't much different.

The tarnishing of the achievements of the heroes like Disney/JJ/Rian/Kennedy have done is what made many casual fans hated the old pre-Disney stories that took place after the OT like the Dark Empire and the Vong because they seemingly nullified the achievements of their predecessors by introducing disasters and tragedies on a grander scale while killing off beloved characters and settings (Chewie, Mara and Coruscant, etc), and then the Disney Trilogy goes and does the same thing but far FAR worse while tarnishing the legacies of its heroes in the eyes of not just their galaxy but in the eyes of the audience/fans.

Now for some parallels and where things get worse:
In the Dark Empire and Vong, Luke briefly falls to the Dark Side (but returns to the light and still manages to bring back the jedi himself without a problem, establishes a whole new academy and jedi order, gets laid, becomes one of the most powerful and celebrated jedi in history and has a great son who even Mark Hamill loved), Han and Leia have marital problems (but they recover and despite having one r-etard son, they still have one good kid to be proud of and Leia remains a beloved and important figure in politics and the royal ruler of New Alderaan), Coruscant seemingly gets fucked and some beloved characters die needlessly (but Coruscant is restored with more greenery and the losses are remembered fondly and died epically ie Chewie and Mara).

In TFA, Luke fails at bringing back the jedi, his jedi academy bombs, he fails his nephew/student and then he goes into hiding like a coward and doesn't bother to contact anyone for ages yet for some reason leaves a bunch of map mcguffins scattered about to find him in case something goes wrong (even though he could've just told someone where he was going and he did in the form of R2 but he shut him down for no real reason) despite going into a self-imposed exile and all of his achievements are treated as the stuff of myth while Han's Kessel Run makes peoples' eyes shine and in TLJ dies a lonely virgin who is such a douchebag he puts the emos on the Dark Side to shame, hell he might've been better off falling to it, and was revealed to be responsible for Kylo's fall because of a moronic vision which prompted him to kill the kid in his sleep for some reason. Han and Leia have only one kid who is a disastrous emo failure and they get a divorce, Leia becomes hated by the very Republic she helped to establish, is reduced to being the meager general of the Ret ard Rebels Resistance and her ex-husband is unable to make a decent living despite of his reputation and is forced to go back into petty smuggling and is hunted down like a dog by others with no fame or rep outside of the Kessel Run, then ends up dying at the hands of his r-etard son and falling into a chasm to be forgotten while Chewie instead of going out like a hero becomes Rey's pet dog who just follows everyone around and stays quiet whilst Leia gives Rey loving hugs despite her barely knowing Han for more than a few days. In TFA they just blow up Coruscant but then decide to retcon that for some reason into being just another generic planet showing they didn't even have the balls to make a drastic change like that despite having the balls to fuck up beloved characters on a grand scale. And then JJ in an interview goes out of his way to say that he doesn't want to diminish Luke and Anakin's roles in the "prophecy" of vanquishing the Sith and bringing balance to the force, but still goes ahead and creates Not-Vader Ren who is basically just as powerful as a sith, if not more so just for the nostalgia factor and then brings even more chaos to the Force with shit like Snoke and if the title of TFA is anything to go by the Force has been asleep for 30 years, effectively nullifying another legacy of the heroes he supposedly wanted to preserve, so in the end both JJ and Rian were terrible choices for the Sequel Trilogy, only made worse by the rumor that now JJ wants to turn Kylo into a sympathetic savior figure.

To sum it up, the heroes become losers and then die like losers, except Leia because Kennedy has a boner for her or something (so they have to keep dragging around that corpse), and have their legacies ruined only for these new nobodies to come along and fix their mistakes because they're so much better than the heroes that came before them (because Disney really wants to make sure they get exclusive royalties for all the new stuff). I could go on but I don't want this wall of text getting any longer. Fuck me, I always had issues with the Dark Empire and absolutely hated the Vong storyline with an unbearable passion, but Disney has actually made me prefer that old dim future (and actually love Dark Empire) of old post-OT lore which now looks like sunshine and sparkles compared to the endlessly dark and fart-infested future Disney has created.

Welp i'm breaking out the whisky, maybe i 'll get to see Darkness my old friend. Seriously this is really, really depressing to me

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Perhaps IX will need to appease the gods and JJ's head might roll, but they need to double down on TLJ atm.

It's insane how much hinges on IX being successful financially. With Solo a bomb and fans being pissed at TLJ, IX somehow has to clean up this mess and it has to be insanely successful at the box office. Essentially, it has to pick up the slack after Solo bombed and the spin-off movies were put on hold and has to cover for their lack of income, too. How that is going to be done is anyone's guess, but the way it is looking now, Disney isn't going to make much money off of their franchise here.

My main problem with film was that it was a soft reboot that nullified the achievements of its predecessor and heroes which only helped to fuel Rian's crazy view that the saga was symbolic of failure and destruction of the old, so JJ's handling wasn't much different.

The thing is, if they hadn't continued to fuck up in TLJ, Han and Leia being back at square one might have been bearable. It would still have sucked and these characters would have deserved to be happy, but it would have been bearable. But with Luke being an utter failure and pretty much the antithesis to what he used to be... yeah, that's not acceptable.

As many said, Hermit Luke could have worked as a concept, but if all he plans to do is to sit idly by while the world burns down in the flames that he himself started... yeah. Fuck nu-Luke. Fuck that plotline. The result was just garbage. Luke is a sad old man, living alone waiting to die.
And he does so in some ancient Jedi temple that looks like the Gummi-Bear-cave after a severe drought.

They have this amazing new CGI tech and they put Luke on some desolate island in the middle of nowhere. Granted, the closing shot of TFA looked really nice and the location is amazing, but the alternative would have been to put Luke on a planet with an actual, massive deserted Jedi Temple complex. Think Jedi-style Angkor Wat. Massive buildings that used to be home to thousands of Padawans and hundreds of Jedi masters.
I think a lot of fans would have been really happy if it had turned out that Luke wasn't a sad lonely hermit, but instead was actually training many new padawans in isolation to prevent outside influence. It would make sense if it's established that Kylo fell to the dark side due to said outside influence.
That way, Luke wouldn't be sad sack of shit that's completely unwilling to take responsibility for the shit he did and caused.

 

[Emperor Julian]

I think on the problems in both the EU and Disney is an unwillingness to push beyond the origonal trilogy, not in a thematic "arnt I clever for making luke a loser" way, more a structural way. Both settings have been effective perpetual warfare for decades at to the point where it's become pure contrivance.
EU for all it's many many many faults at least acknowlaged organic development of the political map to continue the conflict, sure the Yuzan vong where obnoxious and the 2nd galactic civil war made no sense whatsover but at least they indicated that the Empires crushing defeat did actually have ramifications. From a story perspective the the situation has effectively been re-set to just after a new hope except slightly worse. Effectively nothing has happened except the origional protagonists and antagonists are mostly gone. Leaving little incentive to continue the story.

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

 

[TinCan Wizard]

That baby headed freak has some serious skeletons in his closet.

 

[Antipathy]

That baby headed freak has some serious skeletons in his closet.

He deleted a rather large amount of tweets for some reason.
Perhaps they would have provided insight.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

I just wish they gave Han a better ending than TFA. Harrison Ford's last appearance as Han Solo should have been way better, and would have been perfect to tie him into the Starkiller Base plotline. Maybe he could have been Poe's mentor or something, and in the end, we could have had Han and Nien Nunb (or however his name is spelled, you know, the alien who's Lando's copilot in Return of the Jedi) taking out Starkiller Base and saving everyone, with Poe guiding him in, but at the cost of Han's life (and the Falcon's destruction). He still would get that scene with Kylo Ren in that one room, but Kylo spares him since he knows he's too much of a pussy to kill his father at that moment. Sure would've made the Starkiller Base thing feel a lot more than a tacked on subplot.

Do something like that, and have the Rey/Finn vs Kylo Ren duel be less one-sided, and TFA would be a hell of a lot better and wouldn't feel like such a ripoff.

 

[friedshrimp]

^Yeah, I like what you're saying. Poe at times seems to replicate much of Han's old appeal so I could've liked to see that developed further.