Diseased #Comicsgate - The Culture Wars Hit The Funny Books!

[RodgerDodger]

https://boundingintocomics.com/2018...ed-out-for-bad-behavior-then-he-plays-victim/ (Archive)

Honestly, I think Jon has something of a point on this one, as like GG, CG has their own cruft that use it as an excuse/reason to engage in said x-phobic attitudes/behaviors (though both sides are guilty of having its extremists and awful people). And frankly, Bounding Into Comics are a bunch of easily provokable, overreactive spergs who are pretty much the ideological opposite of Bleeding Cool, and John Trent and Co. are lolcows in their own rights IMHO. They're fooling themselves if they think they're some paragons of virtue in this whole mess, especially since they chimp out at the smallest perceived sight. No different than Bleeding Cool, IMHO.

Plus, they bootlick Vox Day and shill his steaming hot turds, so make of that what you will.

I mean, whether you agree with Jon or not, this article does reek of "I'm not saying you should complain to IDW/Sega to get him fired, buuuuuuuuut...." hit piece, even though of all the things said about CG supporters, Jon's comments are arguably the least offensive/incendiary if you ask me.

Boot lick Vox Day? The Comicsgate people curb stomped Vox Day and drove him from the public square the moment he showed up?

 

[NG 070]

Boot lick Vox Day? The Comicsgate people curb stomped Vox Day and drove him from the public square the moment he showed up?

IIRC, Bounding was the only CG-affiliated site that didn’t roundly condemn Vox or try to drive him out when the whole “ComicsGate Comics” imbroglio happened. They also have had “exclusive” interviews with him from time to time, and often advertise his comics.

I think they’re also buddies with another one of Vox’s toadies, John del Arroz.

Perhaps I’m looking too much into things, but the oft glowing praise they have for Vox and his ilk (I don’t think anyone there has said a negative word about him) and the free publicity every time he shits out one of his crappy comics does make my tin foil hat twitch.

 

[Flexo]

There's a point where you gotta realize you have something that just won't stick, no matter how hard you try. I admire their Glass Joe esque persistence, but there's a point where you just gotta let poor Carol go.

I get why they're pushing her so much: they want their own Wonder Woman, since all the female heroes Stan Lee created in the 60's A) started out terrible (tho they got better as time went on), B) were a part of teams so they couldn't have their own solo series, and C) are currently owned by other people, save the Wasp. I mean, Rogue and Storm are pretty good characters, and again, those characters from the 60's got better, but they never really had the same punch as Wondy.

All this trouble, completely erasing a legacy character that has been around since the 60's, just so they can have their very own strong independent womxyzn.

Which is funny because Wonder Woman is only kind of part of the DC trinity by affirmative action sort of. Can anyone name much of her rogue's gallery? Her supporting cast? Especially compared to Superman & Batman? She's on Flash's & Green Lantern's tier if we're being honest.

Though I'd argue historically Marvel just also has a problem with strong, independent MEN just as much - excluding Spider-man. Spidey has at least the pop culture penetration that Supes and Bats does. The others at Marvel getting close to that level were the teams like xmen.

Now with the MCU it does look like things are going to be turning around for some of those figures. Time will tell.

IIRC, Bounding was the only CG-affiliated site that didn’t roundly condemn Vox or try to drive him out when the whole “ComicsGate Comics” imbroglio happened. They also have had “exclusive” interviews with him from time to time, and often advertise his comics.

I think they’re also buddies with another one of Vox’s toadies, John del Arroz.

Perhaps I’m looking too much into things, but the oft glowing praise they have for Vox and his ilk (I don’t think anyone there has said a negative word about him) and the free publicity every time he shits out one of his crappy comics does make my tin foil hat twitch.

I think they just post any and all news outside of the major publishers in a "enemy of my enemy" kind of philosophy. If KiwiFarms was to release an IGG campaign for the "Stories from the Salt Mines" comic it would probably give us coverage.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

As @Debrotherized Luigi said, both sides have their bad actors and it would stand to reason that CG would have their own spergs. However, I see it as a reaction to the high and mighty rhetoric of the professionals and SJWs who have turned the industry into their own ideological playground. If Bounding Into Comics are sucking up to Vox and his cronies, I'll stop playing attention to them.

As for Jon Gray, I used to talk to him on instant messenger fifteen years ago when he was working on his webcomics. Funny guy and a bit off the wall during our few interactions. It saddens me to see that he chugged down the SocJus flavor-aid. I picked up IDW Sonic the Hedgehog #1 and found it quite lacking as I enjoyed the world building of its predecessor while this version felt sparse. As to whether Jon Gray, Ian Flynn, and company should get canned... I get the distinct impression that the point will moot as IDW is bleeding cash right now I'm surprised if they will be able to afford to renew any of their licenses.

 

[Mola Ram]

Which is funny because Wonder Woman is only kind of part of the DC trinity by affirmative action sort of. Can anyone name much of her rogue's gallery?

Well, there's the various incarnations of the Cheetah, who makes Mola Ram feel as funny as Mola Ram's Halloween avatar is making a bunch of you feel. But my favorite would be ... Egg Fu:

I rather suspect he wouldn't fly in 2018.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

Honestly, I think Jon has something of a point on this one, as like GG, CG has their own cruft that use it as an excuse/reason to engage in said x-phobic attitudes/behaviors (though both sides are guilty of having its extremists and awful people)...

I've said it before and I'll say it again - when 80-90% of the lunacy is coming from one side it's a tad disingenuous to handwave it away and say "they all do it". Well one side does it... A LOT...the other side does it... OCCASIONALLY. What say we work on the former first then we'll get to the latter.

 

[Jetpack Himmler]

Which is funny because Wonder Woman is only kind of part of the DC trinity by affirmative action sort of. Can anyone name much of her rogue's gallery? Her supporting cast?

Her rogues gallery: Ares, Cheetah, Doctor Psycho, Silver Swan, and the aforementioned and criminally under appreciated Egg-Fu.

Her supporting cast: Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Donna Troy, Cassie Sandsmark (unclear as of Rebirth), the Greek pantheon and Amazons.

But I am :autism: about DC Comics, so take that as you will. I could tell you about all about Firestorm's rogues and supporting cast if you have the time.

 

[One Man Bland]

I doubt any of us are shocked by the (alleged) news that Kickstarter rejected Jawbreakers on the flawed premise that the project itself promoted racism.
View attachment 556045 https://twitter.com/rpace/status/1046641252131729408
(https://archive.li/34aAT)

Spoiler

View attachment 556046

The wording isn't clear on how he received the screenshot:
View attachment 556047

I’m still not sure why exactly they’re hung up on this or what they think it proves. They seem to be trying to insinuate that it reflects poorly on D&C that he didn’t mention this or that he claimed that he preferred IGG instead of mentioning the Kickstarter thing to explain the brief delay, but what does it matter when his campaign was successful and he’s fulfilled the campaign promises so far?

Are they mad because he didn’t make a big stink about it all over Twitter just quietly moved on to another platform instead of wallowing in controversy? How the hell does that reflect badly on him in relation to the Waid case?

 

[NG 070]

As @Debrotherized Luigi said, both sides have their bad actors and it would stand to reason that CG would have their own spergs. However, I see it as a reaction to the high and mighty rhetoric of the professionals and SJWs who have turned the industry into their own ideological playground. If Bounding Into Comics are sucking up to Vox and his cronies, I'll stop playing attention to them.

I completely agree, though: BOC’s approach/attitude is a reaction to the industry, but I think they tend to sperg out a little too hard sometimes, not to mention they selectively cherry pick certain things to suit their narrative (see any post they make about Kelly Marie Tran; the only reason we don’t see more of her harassment is because she’s nuked all her social media accounts). Which, to be fair, sites like Bleeding Cool and CBR do as well. Still not a good look, though.

But I think anyone heavily involved in this are idiots. I’m only following this train wreck to laugh at people getting their shorts in a wad over capeshit.

 

[damian]

https://twitter.com/jawbreakersart/status/1047338861381050368

Spoiler

Are they mad because he didn’t make a big stink about it all over Twitter just quietly moved on to another platform instead of wallowing in controversy? How the hell does that reflect badly on him in relation to the Waid case?

Since they have absolutely nothing, they’re just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Again, these people are unbelievably petty and dumb as fuck.

“D&C quietly changed platforms, therefore he’s hiding it”, but also remember that “he’s monetizing outrage from his fans”. So which is it? If he’s monetizing outrage from his fans, why did he keep quiet about it?

Also I found it hilarious that KickStarter is obviously ran by the WOKEtards and because of their virtue signalling it costs them around $40K. Like the saying goes GetWokeGoBroke

(Correct me if I’m wrong, I think the fees and processing are around 8% for KS)

 

[RodgerDodger]

Well, there's the various incarnations of the Cheetah, who makes Mola Ram feel as funny as Mola Ram's Halloween avatar is making a bunch of you feel. But my favorite would be ... Egg Fu:

View attachment 557877

I rather suspect he wouldn't fly in 2018.

Let's not forget the evil puny Dwarf that she regularly beats up. Dr. Psycho.

Because nothing says "Strong Independent Woman" quite like routinely kicking the living shit out of Peter Dinklage in public.

 

[Flexo]

But I am :autism: about DC Comics, so take that as you will. I could tell you about all about Firestorm's rogues and supporting cast if you have the time.

Ah you too? When we kill all humans, I'll make sure to kill you last.

But the key difference is the autistic spergs vs the normies. Normies could at most name cheetah (because of internalized fur faggotry) and steve trevor.

 

[RockVolnutt]

Which is funny because Wonder Woman is only kind of part of the DC trinity by affirmative action sort of. Can anyone name much of her rogue's gallery? Her supporting cast? Especially compared to Superman & Batman? She's on Flash's & Green Lantern's tier if we're being honest.

Though I'd argue historically Marvel just also has a problem with strong, independent MEN just as much - excluding Spider-man. Spidey has at least the pop culture penetration that Supes and Bats does. The others at Marvel getting close to that level were the teams like xmen.

Now with the MCU it does look like things are going to be turning around for some of those figures. Time will tell.

Ackshually that's not the case and the Trinity wasn't chosen at random. What Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all have in common is they were the only capes at DC to still have their own comic published after superheroes lost their popularity in the late 40s and survived into the boom of the Silver Age. Green Arrow and Aquaman also never stopped being published but they existed as back-up features rather than main stars.

So it might've lost meaning over decades but the only way this Captain Marvel or any nuMarvel character gets comparable to Trinity status is if their book survives a (metaphorical) apocalypse.

 

[damian]

Ackshually that's not the case and the Trinity wasn't chosen at random. What Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all have in common is they were the only capes at DC to still have their own comic published after superheroes lost their popularity in the late 40s and survived into the boom of the Silver Age. Green Arrow and Aquaman also never stopped being published but they existed as back-up features rather than main stars.

So it might've lost meaning over decades but the only way this Captain Marvel or any nuMarvel character gets comparable to Trinity status is if their book survives a (metaphorical) apocalypse.

For Marvel maybe Wolverine and Spider-Man, I can't think of any other top-tier female heroines that aren't tied to X-Men teams that survived the Marvel bankruptcy in the '90s. All the best heroines from Marvel come from team books. I think Black Widow would be the closest Marvel has come to having their own WW, she's very well liked by both comic and movie spergs.

 

[RockVolnutt]

For Marvel maybe Wolverine and Spider-Man, I can't think of any other top-tier female heroines that aren't tied to X-Men teams that survived the Marvel bankruptcy in the '90s. All the best heroines from Marvel come from team books. I think Black Widow would be the closest Marvel has come to having their own WW, she's very well liked by both comic and movie spergs.

Not apocalyptic enough. I'm talking about if Marvel right now imploded and was reduced to like 7 books while Superheroes no longer were the "in" thing. However you are right on Spider-Man being guaranteed as he's still usually their best seller while these new characters can barely ship a few thousand as "superheroes are the most popular they've ever been".

 

[AnOminous]

Are they mad because he didn’t make a big stink about it all over Twitter just quietly moved on to another platform instead of wallowing in controversy?

Using a different crowdsourcing platform didn't cost him anything but a bit of inconvenience.

Interfering with his contract with Antarctic, forcing him to self-publish and self-distribute, did so in an objectively measurable and legally actionable way.

 

[RodgerDodger]

For Marvel maybe Wolverine and Spider-Man, I can't think of any other top-tier female heroines that aren't tied to X-Men teams that survived the Marvel bankruptcy in the '90s. All the best heroines from Marvel come from team books. I think Black Widow would be the closest Marvel has come to having their own WW, she's very well liked by both comic and movie spergs.

Strangely everyone forgets that Spider-Woman had quite a Media presence and even her own Saturday morning cartoon.

Here’s the gods honest truth regarding female Super Hero books. It is next to impossible to have a long term success with a solo book, because you are greatly limited in the lack of horrible things you can do to the main character. You can’t abuse a female character in the ways you can a male. Which tends to restrict the drama over time. Wonder Woman has really been the lone standout. For most other successful female led solo books you either need humor, or targeting a much younger demographic. Otherwise you end up with things like Captain Marvel’s Seven Relaunches in Five Years because they can’t hit basic sales thresholds.

 

[Flexo]

As @Debrotherized Luigi said, both sides have their bad actors and it would stand to reason that CG would have their own spergs. However, I see it as a reaction to the high and mighty rhetoric of the professionals and SJWs who have turned the industry into their own ideological playground. If Bounding Into Comics are sucking up to Vox and his cronies, I'll stop playing attention to them.

Part of the problem is that nowadays with the ability of social media it is literally impossible to "gatekeep" a movement. With an hour's time, a person could create an account, claim their a part of "the basket weavers fan club" and then post the worst stuff ever in their name. You can try and "police" the ranks if you want but eventually you'll find yourself fighting against your own side more than the enemy.

And this will probably get worse long before it gets any better.

 

[Least Concern]

Let me put it this way. Why do Catholic priests rape children? They don't. What happens is child rapists become Catholic priests because it gets them access to children.

Spoiler: :offtopic:

As a several-time lapsed Catholic, I'd disagree with you there. I think the number of priests who harm children after becoming a priest and then falling prey to baser instincts is probably several times greater than those that harm children and then decide to become a priest for some reason. At any rate, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I'm willing to bet children are at far greater risk in a classroom or on a little league team than in a Catholic church, even after the revelations from earlier this year.

View attachment 557877

I rather suspect he wouldn't fly in 2018.

Oh my God, I had no idea of that one. That's, like, not even a lazy idea, like a megalomaniac with unlimited funds (somehow) who wants to take over the world (for some reason). A giant egg with racist Asian stereotypical features is straight up a mixture of creative effort and bad judgment.

I completely agree, though: BOC’s approach/attitude is a reaction to the industry, but I think they tend to sperg out a little too hard sometimes, not to mention they selectively cherry pick certain things to suit their narrative (see any post they make about Kelly Marie Tran; the only reason we don’t see more of her harassment is because she’s nuked all her social media accounts).

I don't think the comics community in particular cared much about Tran; it was more the Star Wars fans, though of course there's some overlapping on that Venn diagram (see EVS, and even he seems careful to distinguish his dislike for Tran's character from Tran herself). At any rate, as with most cases where the press goes crazy about someone being harassed by them durn alt-right natsies, I'll bet you a hundred dollars there were more outraged articles written about the harassment than actual instances of harassment.

 

[NG 070]

Here’s the gods honest truth regarding female Super Hero books. It is next to impossible to have a long term success with a solo book, because you are greatly limited in the lack of horrible things you can do to the main character. You can’t abuse a female character in the ways you can a male. Which tends to restrict the drama over time. Wonder Woman has really been the lone standout. For most other successful female led solo books you either need humor, or targeting a much younger demographic. Otherwise you end up with things like Captain Marvel’s Seven Relaunches in Five Years because they can’t hit basic sales thresholds.

This, sadly, is rather true. There are exceptions to this... but they're firmly outside of the capeshit genre ('Love and Rockets' and 'Strangers in Paradise' come to mind for me).

Strangely, I don't see anyone on either side of CG pointing out books like Terry Moore's bibliography or the Hernandez Brothers' magnum opus as examples of books with genuine diversity and themes that would otherwise be classified as socjus pandering. Much less other comics/graphic novels, like 'Fun Home' (which has a hugely popular Broadway musical adaptation), 'Persepolis', Rana Telegmeier's entire bibliography (which outsells capeshit by a huge margin), 'American Born Chinese', 'Saga', etc. Even 'Meg, Mogg, & Owl', ffs. I guess if it's not capeshit, it doesn't fit either narrative.

And really, that's what this largely boils down to: cape comics are the big genre when it comes to Western comics, ergo the socjus types believe that crowbarring their ideology into it will do... something. They don't see the forest for the trees, and don't lift up the creators and titles that actually check off all the boxes next to their demands. And the pro-CG crowd aren't pointing these aforementioned titles out as good examples of what the comics medium is capable of and encouraging them to do what they're doing: make/crowdfund their own comics with the stories they want to see.