Carl Benjamin / Sargon of Akkad / Akkad Daily / The Thinkery / @not_sargon / @WarPlanPurple - Leader of the "Liberalists" & Droning Pseudo-Intellectual Boomer anti-SJW Activist, Applebees Waiter, Mass Shooter Whiteknight

[Sheryl Nome]

wait what

Sargon has been praising the movie this whole time? THE MOVIE THAT INTENTIONALLY MAKES STARSHIP TROOPERS A FASCIST GOVERNMENT?
Is he literally retarded?

 

[White Devil's Advocate]

Just replace the word democracy with fascism, or better yet Kekistan.

 

[Mr. Duck]

Has Sargon been doing coke again?, because that Starship Troopers video was just fucking r.etarded, even for him.

 

[Clorex]

I've been looking at the soygon 'art' the spergs post on DA, this one seems fitting for the current conversation.
https://www.deviantart.com/redamerican1945/art/Go-back-to-school-Carl-714672293

 

[Buer]

Wasn't the original Starship Troopers book actually praising it's militaristic/fascist regime though instead of making fun of it? I could think that Sargon might've just read the book and the movie(who doesn't have the same direction as the book)was just something he skimmed over completely missing that it was kinda making fun of itself?

 

[Sheryl Nome]

Wasn't the original Starship Troopers book actually praising it's militaristic/fascist regime though instead of making fun of it? I could think that Sargon might've just read the book and the movie(who doesn't have the same direction as the book)was just something he skimmed over completely missing that it was kinda making fun of itself?

I'm pretty sure he just watched the movie and read the book's wikipedia article

 

[shartshooter]

Sargon's video about Starship Troopers is only 8 minutes shorter than the film Starship Troopers.

 

[mindlessobserver]

Wasn't the original Starship Troopers book actually praising it's militaristic/fascist regime though instead of making fun of it? I could think that Sargon might've just read the book and the movie(who doesn't have the same direction as the book)was just something he skimmed over completely missing that it was kinda making fun of itself?

Starship troopers was written by Heinlein as a reaction to what he saw as communist utopianism in Science fiction. Anyone who opposed commies is default a fascist (as is tradition), but his book was not fascist. He modeled the Terran Federation off of the Roman Republic, but with the "reform" that Roman citizenship was open to anyone willing to serve. And like Rome, even non citizens were entitled to the protection of the State. Heinlein believed that the western democracies would inevitably degenerate morally, culturally and politically as the universal franchise encouraged people to vote for what they wanted rather then what they needed. The exact opposite of the Utopian Science fiction of the time. He believed however that the liberal democracies militaries (unlike the Roman ones) believing in the principles if not the practice of their States governing philosophies would step in and restore order along with a new liberal world order based on shared responsibility as opposed to shared rights.

That is a tad optimistic IMO, but the tl;dr is no. Heinlein was not Fascist. He was an Ayn Rand style libertarian utopian, with his focus more on the military hero then the industrial hero.

 

[instythot]

wait what

Sargon has been praising the movie this whole time? THE MOVIE THAT INTENTIONALLY MAKES STARSHIP TROOPERS A FASCIST GOVERNMENT?
Is he literally exceptional?

Pure unfiltered retardation, brought to you by the mind that brought you Gamergate, Liberalistism and Gamergate 2

Sargon's video about Starship Troopers is only 8 minutes shorter than the film Starship Troopers.

Me noticing that his video on one aspect of a feature film was as long as the average feature film composed of several aspects was the exact point where I said "I am fucking done with this shit"

 

[SuperDeeDuper]

That is a tad optimistic IMO, but the tl;dr is no. Heinlein was not Fascist. He was an Ayn Rand style libertarian utopian, with his focus more on the military hero then the industrial hero.

however, we should give the caveat that 'libertarian' in heinlein's time was very different from 'libertarian' as we know it now. 'libertarians' as they exist now are part of the moral decline that heinlein predicted.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

inb4 Sargon becomes Nostalgia Critic 2.0

Do you have examples of his lolcowish behavior that go beyond "he doesn't like SJWs/feminists"?

I wonder how people who wrote comments like this feel now.

 

[Berrakh]

If you read Starship Troopers, everyone is like brown and multiracial. He isnt le fascist but I mean the system is most similar to a fascist society still. Or a really GOP-conservative-libertarian minarchist one but fascist captures its essence better.

 

[Iron Father]

I don't really know if I would say it's fascist but since the world it is set in is fundamentally an existential crisis setting, many fascistic elements will naturally be in it. It's the same thing with the Warhammer 40k world.

Fascism is seen as very unreasonable in comfortable times but if the entire species is at risk of complete annihilation every 10 seconds it probably becomes less about fascism as a specific ideology and more about pragmatic survivalism.

I haven't read the Starship Troopers book in awhile though so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.

 

[shartshooter]

I don't really know if I would say it's fascist but since the world it is set in is fundamentally an existential crisis setting, many fascistic elements will naturally be in it. It's the same thing with the Warhammer 40k world.

Fascism is seen as very unreasonable in comfortable times but if the entire species is at risk of complete annihilation every 10 seconds it probably becomes less about fascism as a specific ideology and more about pragmatic survivalism.

I haven't read the Starship Troopers book in awhile though so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.

The Starship trooper world didn't go fascist because of space bugs, it went fascist because of WW3 with communists after liberalism weakened and collapsed society. The Chinamen had been eliminated and society was rebuilt from the understanding of past mistakes. At the start of the book it's been peace for so long that people are starting to go soft again and complaining about military expenditure.

It's important to remember about the book was written directly in response to hippie counter-culture and the peace movement. Particularly the nuclear disarmament movement during the Cold War. Heinlien wanted to question if that idealism was truth or a historical aberration and hubris. The book looks to the past as much as it presents a different future ideal. It resonates today partly because it discusses fundamental truths discussed nowhere else, partly because 70s counter-culture is now establishment and intergalactic war with bugs would be preferable.

One thing the book got wrong though is women made the best space pilots because of their 'naturally superior reflexes' or some bullshit. I guess even in a thought experiment you gotta keep some modern egalitarian virtue.

 

[Iron Father]

The Starship trooper world didn't go fascist because of space bugs, it went fascist because of WW3 with communists after liberalism weakened and collapsed society.

WW3 would be an existential crisis situation. My reference to the elimination of the species is about Warhammer 40k.

This is making me want to re-read Starship Troopers though.

 

[instythot]

"Premiering" his aforementioned Starship Troopers video right now.
It's about politics, so since he mentioned it during his phase 2 video that proves once and for all that he was never serious about taking a break from them.

God damn. Hoping it might make more sense, I tried watching this from the beginning instead of jumping in at some random point and giving up during the premiere.

I endured under five minutes before giving up.

Three takeaways:

Opening an "intellectual" film analysis with a montage of what a bunch of pop culture critics who aren't you think signals "I have nothing important to say"

"I will now talk about this at length and in pedantic detail, because I really enjoy doing that"... my deepest sympathies to you having to live with this, Mrs. Akkad

If you need to start off film analysis with a recap of 500 years of European history instead of anything at all about the film in question, I question whether you have truly understood the point of the film

 

[mindlessobserver]

however, we should give the caveat that 'libertarian' in heinlein's time was very different from 'libertarian' as we know it now. 'libertarians' as they exist now are part of the moral decline that heinlein predicted.

True. And a big difference between then and now is that Heinlein did not believe rights were "natural". Rights were things we gave to ourselves, and it fell upon the State (albeit with a limited government) to hold the monopoly of force to protect them. Yet how do you balance a desire for a small government that protect rights with an entity that holds a monopoly on force, the final method of political persuasion after reason and consensus go out the window? Heinlein created the Terran Federation with this in mind. His Federation is not averse to using Force to protect humanity (and its Rights). Quite the opposite in fact, it has zero moral hangups over it. But the limited Franchise, and the exclusionary process wherein the only people who can wield political power are the ones who have endured years of crap to prove they "had what it takes" would in Heinleins view sort out the corrupt opportunists who would abuse the system,

This is a huge difference from Ayn Rand who believed everyones enlightened self interest and respect of not initiating force would usher in the libertarian utopia. Rand idolized the wealthy industrialist but Heinlein disdained them. To Heinline, John Galt could never have the success he did without the State being present to protect his right to pursue profit and personal self advancement. Rico's father is essentially John Galt in Starship Troopers. A wealthy and successful businessman. But he is a civilian not a citizen because his enlightened self interest focused only on himself and not the bigger picture. It should be noted however that there was nothing wrong with Ricos dad doing this. Indeed it was actively encouraged, and allowing the space for successful civilians to find success like Rico's dad was considered part of the duty and sacrifices a citizen takes on when they earn the franchise.

 

[Iron Father]

i think such a system could be beneficial even in peace time for a few reasons - it would foster a culture of preparedness and responsibility even if there's no imminent threat. the danger is that you go down the neo-liberal path and start getting into wars for purely economic rather than survival reasons.

I don't know that there is any example of fascism working on any kind of pragmatic level, but it obviously does have some benefits in certain situations. I mean, just right out the gate having a society with a heavy focus on the military and military service will make any antagonistic state think twice about attacking you or trying to strong-arm you on foreign policy and will maintain a certain degree of social civility if a good deal of the men are servicemen and the women are military wives and servicewomen.

Personally I don't think humanity has experienced anything dire enough to justify fascism. If the planet is invaded by a ruthless alien force I'll probably support fascism, especially because I can totally get behind speciesism.

During peace time though? Well, I'm more interested in realpolitik more than I am any kind of partisan politics and IMO through that lens there really is no such thing as peace time. Peace time seems like a mainstream media platitude to me, there's always something going on but we seem to define peace time by whether or not there's a story in it for the media to regurgitate to the nation. That might be cynical... haha.

 

[HG 400]

shut up you big-brain faggots

 

[SuperDeeDuper]

During peace time though? Well, I'm more interested in realpolitik more than I am any kind of partisan politics and IMO through that lens there really is no such thing as peace time. Peace time seems like a mainstream media platitude to me, there's always something going on but we seem to define peace time by whether or not there's a story in it for the media to regurgitate to the nation. That might be cynical... haha.

it is somewhat cynical, but i would tend to agree, hence my position leaning towards preparedness.

starship troopers (as depicted in the book, not in carl's memes) is basically my ideal system. i would be fine with giving up my right to vote (or serving to get it back) if it meant having such an orderly and well-guarded society.