Democracy

[Godjesus]

Interesting video. The more critiques I see critiques of democracy, the more I'm convinced a well-educated, well-informed, rights respecting populace is absolutely required for it. I definitely think that is something we are moving away from.

 

[exball]

You shut your dirty commie mouth.

 

[Sweet and Savoury]

The trouble with democracy is that it relies on the average person to make long term choices about the future.

The average person is a retard who cannot balance thier own life.

Do you see the issue here?

 

[Godjesus]

The trouble with democracy is that it relies on the average person to make long term choices about the future.

The average person is a exceptional individual who cannot balance thier own life.

Do you see the issue here?

I think it may be optimistic to say average people will vote for even average leaders. There has been so much corruption in American government since its inception and the problem gets worse when government has extended their reach. I am convinced democracy is not in any way compatible with large government.

 

[The Dude]

The US started out as a Republic, then a Democracy, and now it's neither. It's a Corporatetocracy. The banks and big businesses own this country. The Government got bigger, they got further into bed with businesses and banks, and then they started fucking people over. I used to be a Republican, but about ten years ago I got sick of their shit, so I became an independent-leaning-to-libertarian. I'd like to see the USA go back to a smaller Federal Government Republic with libertarian ideals. That means respecting people's personal liberties, getting out of their lives, stop telling people who they can or cannot marry (I'm pro-LGBT rights), and getting out of bed with big business and ending the Federal Reserve. I can't stand the Democrats or the Republicans, but I sure as hell don't want my country to become some socialist or communist shithole. History has proven those forms of government always end in totalitarianism. I want people to be free, not slaves to their governments.

 

[Picklechu]

Representative democracy = good.
Direct democracy = bad.

 

[Arctic]

As for as I know, most people who criticize democracy are edgelords who have no experience with alternatives. The fossilized, poorly-functioning democracy in the US doesn't automatically render democracy as a whole a bad option. There are plenty of well-functioning democracies in western Europe and eastern Asia. Maybe this is just my inner eurofag speaking, but it gets really tiring when people criticize something as far-reaching as democracy and only give examples from the US.

 

[Marvin]

As for as I know, most people who criticize democracy are edgelords who have no experience with alternatives. The fossilized, poorly-functioning democracy in the US doesn't automatically render democracy as a whole a bad option. There are plenty of well-functioning democracies in western Europe and eastern Asia. Maybe this is just my inner eurofag speaking, but it gets really tiring when people criticize something as far-reaching as democracy and only give examples from the US.

Hmm? You serious? Democracy in the US works very well.

 

[Arctic]

Hmm? You serious? Democracy in the US works very well.

Maybe I spent too much time on Youtube, everyone there seems to hate it.

 

[Marvin]

Maybe I spent too much time on Youtube, everyone there seems to hate it.

Local politics are more important in the US, I think. There are larger, federal issues, but honestly they don't affect my day-to-day life that much. (And even then, the decisions the federal government makes are rarely aggressive in any given way that'll seriously piss off your average citizen.)

Heh, also, marijuana legalization efforts here are seeing success. That's an inspiring example of successful democracy to me.

 

[Holdek]

Compared to what? Utopia? No. Every historical alternative? Yeah.

 

[Godjesus]

Local politics are more important in the US, I think. There are larger, federal issues, but honestly they don't affect my day-to-day life that much. (And even then, the decisions the federal government makes are rarely aggressive in any given way that'll seriously piss off your average citizen.)

Heh, also, marijuana legalization efforts here are seeing success. That's an inspiring example of successful democracy to me.

Sure it just depends on what you value. But it was the same democracy that made it a schedule 1 in the first place.

Compared to what? Utopia? No. Every historical alternative? Yeah.

Maybe. How can you know?

 

[Marvin]

Sure it just depends on what you value. But it was the same democracy that made it a schedule 1 in the first place.

If the people decide that's what they want, then democracy is working, I suppose.

A lot of improvement we need will be cultural. If the democratic system we have accurately reflects the culture, then it'll have done its job.

Like, for example, DC tried to legalize marijuana this past election. It passed with ~70% of the vote. But because of DC's legal status, congress has the power to overrule the voters. DC voters don't have the same representation that voters in Maryland or Virginia do.

DC has a bigger population than two US states, Vermont and Wyoming. But they don't have full home rule. I consider that to be a failing of democracy. (Well, more a failing of our specific implementation of democracy as it applies to DC.)

 

[Godjesus]

If the people decide that's what they want, then democracy is working, I suppose.

A lot of improvement we need will be cultural. If the democratic system we have accurately reflects the culture, then it'll have done its job.

Like, for example, DC tried to legalize marijuana this past election. It passed with ~70% of the vote. But because of DC's legal status, congress has the power to overrule the voters. DC voters don't have the same representation that voters in Maryland or Virginia do.

DC has a bigger population than two US states, Vermont and Wyoming. But they don't have full home rule. I consider that to be a failing of democracy. (Well, more a failing of our specific implementation of democracy as it applies to DC.)

Yeah I understand democracy in theory would make the most happy since the most people will decide what they want. The idea that democracy is better than any government tried seems to be a fact in our society but is this idea analyzed fully? Or is it just accepted much like older traditions, religions etc? For instance, if we asked Chinese what the best form of government was, would they say democracy? They would probably say Chinese communism right? Again this is just personal values so the answer would be different for lots of people but on average would probably tend to be in the system you are in if it is perceived to be "working" or not. I think an unquestioned and accepted ideas deserve scrutiny.

 

[Uzumaki]

For instance, if we asked Chinese what the best form of government was, would they say democracy? They would probably say Chinese communism right?

The Chinese in Hong Kong right now sure wouldn't.

You see people spontaneously rising up and demanding democracy all the time. Not just crazy paramilitary groups as with all the other forms of government, but actual regular people.

 

[Godjesus]

The Chinese in Hong Kong right now sure wouldn't.

You see people spontaneously rising up and demanding democracy all the time. Not just crazy paramilitary groups as with all the other forms of government, but actual regular people.

While I personally like the Hong Kong system, you had people demand communism too all over South America, Russian bloc. You had popular facism in Italy and Germany. It doesn't prove anything does it?

 

[Uzumaki]

While I personally like the Hong Kong system,

I sure hope you don't. Google umbrella revolution.

you had people demand communism too all over South America, Russian bloc. You had popular facism in Italy and Germany. It doesn't prove anything does it?

You saw the most popular support for fascism and communism prior to them having been attempted on a large scale. Where are all the popular communist and fascist movements now, after these systems of government have been exposed to the light of day? They're two or three men nutcase militias with shitty websites.

 

[Godjesus]

I sure hope you don't. Google umbrella revolution.

I was not aware of this. But there is an implicit assumption democracy is good for its own sake. Hong Kong was/is a very prosperous city and much of its people. Why should it have changed?

You had crazy paramilitary groups that had to actively recruit people. Not the same thing. Nazism wasn't the result of the German people rising as one and demanding a final solution to the Jewish question.

Are you sure about that? Hitler was popular and a democratic government allowed his election.

You saw the most popular support for fascism and communism prior to them having been attempted on a large scale. Where are all the popular communist and fascist movements now, after these systems of government have been exposed to the light of day? They're two or three men nutcase militias with shitty websites.

Governments have gotten good at crushing opposition, I think that's all.

 

[Uzumaki]

I was not aware of this. But there is an implicit assumption democracy is good for its own sake. Hong Kong was/is a very prosperous city and much of its people. Why should it have changed?

It was the Chinese communist party trying to impose their own retrograde version of fake democracy on the island. The communists are the ones proposing change. It's also in violation of what they agreed to when the island was handed over from Britain. Please, if you're going to argue this stuff do some research.

Are you sure about that? Hitler was popular and a democratic allowed his election.

Yeah, I am. He was elected. That's not the same as a revolution.

Governments have gotten good at crushing opposition, I think that's all.

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[Godjesus]

It was the Chinese communist party trying to impose their own retrograde version of fake democracy on the island. The communists are the ones proposing change. Please, if you're going to argue this stuff do some research.

I wasn't arguing? I told you I was ignorant. I read the reason for the so called protest that's all. I said I liked the system and by that I mean 1998 to before this.

Yeah, I am. He was elected. That's not the same as a revolution.

Hence popular facism.

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Please argue in good faith.