Weeb Wars / AnimeGate / #KickVic / #IStandWithVic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

[ZN 322]

 

[GnomeofDoc]

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God damn it I got work in the morning. Ah well I can just coffee it up I guess

 

[gREEEEEEEEEr]

Generally I think you see things like Apologies being part of settlements. But a Trial Judge could and would certainly order the defamatory material be taken down, if it is still publicly published. And give an injunction against further disparagement.

This was more along the lines of what I was originally thinking as far as the court ordering a retraction. It couldn't compel a defendant to say something that the defendant didn't want to say, but it could obviously order them to delete the defamatory statements, if they hadn't.

In fact, I wonder if the court could be inclined to just side-step the defendant and order the service (Twitter, for instance) to delete the defamatory statements. I think there would definitely come a point where this could happen if the defendant steadfastly refuses to delete them, and the defendant already has to get an initial letter demanding a retraction under Texas defamation laws (which @AnOminous posted, and Nick also mentioned it in I believe a couple of the panels he's held).

 

[GethN7]

Here is another more infamous case were the retraction was part of an actual legal settlement: https://money.cnn.com/2018/10/01/media/washington-times-aaron-rich/

Note in both cases I noted, a retraction was indeed one of the things requested by the plaintiffs, both in the actual lawsuit and prior to it. And said retractions were part of the ultimate conclusion of both situation. This would suggest that a retraction is indeed something that can be requested during the course of lawsuit. Of course it would only be logical for that to be the case. Why sue someone over an article calling you a rapist if said article calling you such is left up, untouched, in the aftermath? It would defeat the purpose of the lawsuit. As you said, the supreme court has never ruled on this (the one case to reach the supreme court where a retraction was requested, New York Times v. Sullivan, saw the court not even rule on whether or not a retraction was possible). However, there is no first amendment issue here anyway; the first amendment doesn't cover slander or libel, or defamation.

New York v. Sullivan, while it led to a lot of press bullshit I don't like today, still established an important precedent for a free press.

In the absence of provable malice, assertions made based on honest assessment of known facts are not legally considered defamation, with the key word being FACTS, or objective evidence. If the written commentary by the press (such as that case) was erroneous yet done based on what they knew at the time in good faith, then no deliberate malice was intended and hence no intentional defamation intended.

However, Vic's case is different. His career and good standing are being tainted by accusations he is willing to denounce as false in open court, which means either people making the accusations need to pony up actual proof in legal response the accusations were made in good faith based on provable evidence, or their ass is gonna be fried legally.

A retraction of deliberate libel would nigh certainly be considered appropriate legal remedy if Vic is completely innocent of the claims.

 

[5t3n0g0ph3r]

God damn it I got work in the morning. Ah well I can just coffee it up I guess

If you're American, don't forget that Daylight Savings Time begins, too.

 

[Captain Manning]

I could be wrong, but I could swear someone at some point estimated at least one of their net worth at several million USD? So in the same general ballpark as Vic. Certainly either likely have the $30-$50,000 needed to stage an individual defense or reach a settlement. It is a Judgement that will ruin them. Not the lawyer costs.

Vic's net worth is reported to be about 4 million. I dunno about the rest.

Ron claims he makes more than Vic, but Ron has been so full of shit I wouldn't take anything he says as truth. I know some higher end mortgage brokers can pull in six figures a year. Question is, is he one?

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Spoiler: It's labor unions. California's entertainment industry is unionized up the ass.

 

[Monkey Prick]

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Thank fuck this UFC card was earlier than usual today.

 

[RodgerDodger]

New York v. Sullivan, while it led to a lot of press bullshit I don't like today, still established an important precedent for a free press.

In the absence of provable malice, assertions made based on honest assessment of known facts are not legally considered defamation, with the key word being FACTS, or objective evidence. If the written commentary by the press (such as that case) was erroneous yet done based on what they knew at the time in good faith, then no deliberate malice was intended and hence no intentional defamation intended.

However, Vic's case is different. His career and good standing are being tainted by accusations he is willing to denounce as false in open court, which means either people making the accusations need to pony up actual proof in legal response the accusations were made in good faith based on provable evidence, or their ass is gonna be fried legally.

A retraction of deliberate libel would nigh certainly be considered appropriate legal remedy if Vic is completely innocent of the claims.

It should also be noted that the Officially Published "Journalistic" pieces from ANN and io9 may have a good faith problem. There is an underlying and unstated relationship and communications with at least one of the likely Defendants. Marzgurl. These communications would appear to be prior to the #kickvic Hashtag campaign and as it launched. Inclusding one of the authors being the first people to Tweet in the Hashtag. Which they then covered the Hashtag and scandal as news. There is a clear conflict of interests in those pieces. Which may cause some real problems for them.

 

[DanteFraco]

Btw the way guys, wanted to let all know something, i'm the one that sent nick the perttylittleuglyliar link that he use to make the tweet post that day.

 

[FH 721]

Actually there's a good chance you were blocked before, look up Steve Shives and see if you were blocked by him.

If you're on Twitter and have not yet been blocked by Steve Shives, you're doing something wrong with your life.

 

[Le Pew]

It should also be noted that the Officially Published "Journalistic" pieces from ANN and io9 may have a good faith problem. There is an underlying and unstated relationship and communications with at least one of the likely Defendants. Marzgurl. These communications would appear to be prior to the #kickvic Hashtag campaign and as it launched. Inclusding one of the authors being the first people to Tweet in the Hashtag. Which they then covered the Hashtag and scandal as news. There is a clear conflict of interests in those pieces. Which may cause some real problems for them.

IO getting Hulk Hogan'd by Vic would be the absolute funniest thing ever.

 

[Captain Manning]

If you're on Twitter and have not yet been blocked by Steve Shives, you're doing something wrong with your life.

Let me check...

Should I kill myself now, or can I fix this transgression with remedial shitposting?

 

[MG 192]

A couple of things,

First, how do we save live streams that other people do? I know that I want to save TUG's live stream where he interviews Deneice.

Second, when people talk about Vic's net worth, is this the site they get it from?

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

I could be wrong, but I could swear someone at some point estimated at least one of their net worth at several million USD? So in the same general ballpark as Vic. Certainly either likely have the $30-$50,000 needed to stage an individual defense or reach a settlement. It is a Judgement that will ruin them. Not the lawyer costs.

Sabat is worth is reportedly around $8 million. I think Jamie is reportedly around $5 million, but I’m not so sure about the source of that and whether it’s up-to-date or not. I have no idea about Rial.

But you might be right, actually. Although, as Nick said, even a successful person in the millions of dollars when it comes to net worth can run into financial troubles with lawsuits, hence some motivation for the GoFundMe.

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I hope he looks at some of the Glassdoor reviews for Funimation. Even some of the positive reviews, if you look at the page, talk about the same stuff.

 

[AnOminous]

It should also be noted that the Officially Published "Journalistic" pieces from ANN and io9 may have a good faith problem. There is an underlying and unstated relationship and communications with at least one of the likely Defendants. Marzgurl.

They weren't just covering a news story. They were deliberately creating one with the openly stated intent of harming the plaintiff.

 

[Son of Sparda 84]

That Michelle chick who said she met Vic before he was famous just met up with Monica

Just accepted the whole archive thing it said it will take a while

 

[Remove Goat]

I hate to be another one of those people, but can I get the bullet points of this whole situation?

FMA is one of my mother's favorite anime and I really want to bring her up to speed.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

The operative word being "settlement." It can be requested. The defendant can agree with that request. It is unlikely that it can be ordered against an unwilling defendant, even one who has lost and, more importantly, that it would be upheld on appeal if it were.

You can have a retraction as part of a settlement agreement approved by the court, but you haven't found a case where the court can ORDER a retraction.

Interestingly, I did find a case where a man was ordered by a state court to retract statements he made on Facebook with another Facebook post and fined him when he refused. Though the order was overturned, it was not for first amendment reasons, but reasons unrelated to the legality of the retraction, though a concurring judge did opine that he felt the retraction was "compelled speech" under the first amendment: https://www.isba.org/ibj/2016/01/court-orderedfacebookpost

In another case, the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California Ordered a company to issue a retraction as part of a contempt order in response to said company issuing public statements in line with a prior agreed upon settlement. The retraction was for the statements not inline with the order. Said Contempt order, including retraction, was upheld by the United States Courts of Appeals for the Federal Circuit: http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/opinions-orders/18-1655.Opinion.2-8-2019.pdf

There was also a case in Georgia where a pastor was required, by the court to retract defamatory statements he had made, and the ACLU didn't like it: https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-asks-judge-reconsider-order-forcing-minister-write-letter-retraction

And in California, a man was ordered to retract libelous statements by an arbitrator. The Los Angeles Superior Court initially vacated the retraction, calling it compelled speech that violated the First Amendment, but this was overturned by the appeals court, which ruled that the arbitrator could order this, whether or not the courts were able to (though did not rule if the courts were able to), but the courts ruled that the man did not have to apologize for his initial statements: http://www.metnews.com/articles/2011/kell041911.htm

When most people talk about retraction in a legal sense, it is usually in regards to a retraction made prior to the court by the defaming parties. In most jurisdictions, retraction is something that is (generally) required to be requested prior to the case, and would possibly allow the mitigation of damages that could be wrung out of the defendants in a defamation suit if carried out.

However the initial two cases I listed, among others, show lawyers requesting retraction a a form of reward from court itself and there are cases showing courts requiring such retractions. Generally, a lawyer wouldn't request something as a reward from the court if he wasn't sure the court could actually deliver it. The fact that in both cases I initially listed retraction was a requested reward FROM THE COURT, alongside other damages suggest that in both cases the lawyers involved believed that the retraction itself could be court ordered. In both cases, the only reason it wasn't is because of settlement or the defendant taking independent action, which is usually what happens in most civil cases.

These four cases I listed here show that the there are courts that are willing to force retractions. Whether they hold up on appeal is another question entirely, but there doesn't appear to be clear case law one way or another, and no court, as far as I can tell, has actually declared that a court ordered retraction would be unconstitutional. As far as I'm concerned, this is no different from the court ordering apologies or ordering Big Tobacco to do an ad campaign talking about the danger of cigarettes.

I say that Ty and the Amazons should request retraction. Maybe set precedent in the process. Wouldn't that be funny if this case set legal precedent regarding whether or not a court could force retractions as a reward for lawsuits? In any case, they should request it to put pressure on the defendants to offer retractions in any settlement.

 

[AnOminous]

I say that Ty and the Amazons should request retraction.

It's pretty likely they already have or, if not, are going to very soon. We'll see what they put in the complaint if there is one.

 

[Mr. Zed da Robot Poon Fed]

They weren't just covering a news story. They were deliberately creating one with the openly stated intent of harming the plaintiff.

Exactly. Even Mike Toole from my understanding had been taking about Vic’s supposed creepiness back in 2011 through his tweets but did not write anything not mentioned anything about it until now. ANNLynzee asked for creep stories in order to help make the ANN piece. This isn’t news.

ANN has been sucking when it comes to news nowadays. They reported voice actress Maeghan Albach’s death a month after she died. Just look at the date she dies and the date that the article was written.

Voice Actress Maeghan Albach Passes Away - News - Anime News Network

archived 10 Mar 2019 03:36:35 UTC

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