Of course I'm painting with a broad brush, we're discussing the broad strokes and for that it would be useless to discuss the fine print until you have reason to zoom in into part of it. I always try to use the correct level of magnification in discussing something.
Fair enough, I suppose I should have considered your perspective first.
I could link to the studies, but from previous discussions I find that this video communicates it better for general purposes:
-SNIP-
Thanks for the link, I hadn't heard of Plomin's studies and it does communicate your point rather well. Plomin's take of potential and inheritability of IQ/behaviors does make good biological sense, but could generally be applied between any two people, even of the same race. I understand you're arguing that the differences between two racial groups would be different anyway (based on the genetic culture model), and I can understand that.
Early on, I kinda got the sense that Plomin would be making a arguments for eugenic sciences, but he was genuinely just studying the genetic factors, so that was a pleasant surprise. It's a good take, and I hope it won't be received like
The Bell Curve has been.
You instead attribute this to environment/culture. I don't think you will continue that view if you read Plomin's work and consider its implications.
Well, not entirely, it'd be hard to argue that it's ONLY environment and cultural factors at play, when we know that personality is influenced by genetics. Mainly though, I had never experienced the whole "genetic culture" thing in my personal life, infact , it has been always the opposite. For example, one of my best friends growing up was a born-in-Norway Norwegian, but he moved to the states at a fairly early age, and he behaved as American as the rest of us yanks (didn't even know or bother learning his family's language or traditions), even though his family still retained their old values.
With this in mind, I'm not really quite sure how to feel. On one hand, I know there is truth to the genetics angle, on the other, I feel that both still need be considered. As a biology major (Forensics) I would have thoughtlessly contributed this to personality genetics, rather than cultural.
If you can improve on that work, I would be glad and open and happy to learning about it.
I don't have anything to add, currently, besides personal anecdotes. Once I get the chance, I'll see if I can dig up some of my older studies on the subject, and see what your take is.
Since integration is failing practically everywhere, we'll continue seeing more and more forced integration.
Do you mean between refugees and migrants? or the countries' native populations? I'm witnessing more of a problem with the former than the latter, and would agree it's not going well (See: The mosque fiasco and fallout)
I think forced integration is the more hateful of the two, one that leads to lower trust and social cohesion, as we know from putnam's study. Very different from elective integration, something that I personally am the product of. Though the difference as far as I can tell are moral rather than difference of result.
Certainly, forcing
anything is going to be met with some protest and feelings of discomfort. However, while I'm not fond of forcing people together that don't necessarily want to be (excluding things like the Civil Rights movement), I'm not a fan of forcefully parting them either. You're a European, yes? Over here, things are not quite as bad as media would portrays them. There aren't massive racial marches in the streets everyday, and even in the deep American south (a place known for it's racial issues), you can witness people of many different colors coexisting, at least those that share the same cultural values.
Most don't consider this, and think that just because some behave like cretins, it needs to be the absolute end of us getting along. I've even see people arguing on this forum that slavery/segregation shouldn't have been abolished (which disgusts me), simply because some half-wit on twitter likes complaining about race or whatever. It's heartbreaking because all I can see is a bunch of conflict-seekers ripping apart the very country I grew up loving so much. I'd rather die/not exist than to watch it unfold that way.
Would you define a group of black people who want an all black college as inherently hateful? Is segregation hateful by definition? And if it is, who has the moral authority to impose integration?
Not inherently hateful, no, but stupid in a few ways.
1. With such a homogeneous group, you're losing out on a lot of perspectives you would otherwise hear, challenge or agree with.
2. American Black culture, for the most part, is damaging and dangerous
even for black kids. I think I would know better than most, my last few years in high-school, a good portion of our school were from the inner-city. Pretty much all of the black kids absolutely despised me (a "fellow" darkie, for you tribalists out there), I got called an uncle tom, a white devil sellout and even a house nigger. It's incredibly toxic, and the black kids who want to do well would absolutely be better off without that sort of homogeneity.
3. You might not define segregation as hateful, but most normal people do. Like I said, no one should be forced to mingle with others if they so choose, but no government or authority should be forcing them apart either. I mentioned those education-seeking black kids earlier, well, imagine that they absolutely
can't go to a different school because most of them are white-owned, why should they have to endure poor-quality schools because their peers acted like fools? If we're going to accept that whites shouldn't be blamed for each others actions, past and present, then no other group of people should be blamed for the actions of others in their circle, either.
One more thing, if a man shares all of your values, your culture, your intelligence and ideals (and yes, I realize this is uncommon), does his skin color still matter? Further, do you believe we should be allowed to separate by gender, class or sexual orientation? This isn't an argument, but I'm simply curious what your thoughts are.
I've been enjoying our discussion thus far, and you seem like you'd be a good person to wax about life with.
