Star Wars Griefing Thread (SPOILERS) - Safety off

Looks like the official SW page on Twitter made a poll for "International Friendship Day" to have people vote for their favorite BFFs in Star Wars, and it appears they were banking on disney sequel BFFs winning the poll considering how much they were shilling them. Imagine their shock and the shock of their nu-fans when Disney BFFs got BTFO by OT BFFs in the polls. The comments are amusing too for the most part.

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And this is also after their character assassination attempts on Han Solo and turning Chewie into a dog btw.

Anyways, let's write more for this movie idea that will never be...
So Last Jedi opens a month or two after the Raid on Starkiller Base, on a cold steppe planet rife with ruins and giant tree colonies. FN is still grieving for Rey, given he like many of the Republic forces sent to break out the bases' prisoners, thinks she was killed when the Star Destroyer tagged her. His mood's made somewhat worse as he isn't exactly trusted by many of the forces present, who sneer and remark he's "a throwback to the Empire", they clearly don't trust him for the most part. He does however have the trust of General Organa, who picks his brain for as much info as he can provide. He also still has Chewbacca, who both share in drinks due to their shared grief.

He slowly begins to develop a complicated but growing relationship with Temmin, as the two often are both similar to but different to each other. FN and Temmin are both loyal to a fault, care deeply about their allies and friends, and give their all for the mission. But where FN is a cooler head and far thinker, Temmin is hot-headed and very in the moment. You can see the nucleus of a friendship, but it isn't there yet due to their personality clashes.

The two are called in to the war room, where Leia, Ackbar, as well as Leia's XO Holdo are planning over something. Both FN and Admiral Ackbar had good intel on the First Order's main assets, of which includes one of the few good sized shipyards they control located on [Insert Midworld Here]. Ackbar himself was caught while on a raiding mission in the Mid-Rim and was the main spotter of it along with his crew. FN himself verifies it, since Commander Hux and his unit in general had to quell dissidents in the region and had to drydock there once due to a surprise Y-Wing bomber run.

Temmin himself advocates for an approach given his status of Chief Flight Officer, but Holdo and Ackbar are more cautious. Holdo comments that it may be a trap of some sort, showing a bit of disdain for FN and claiming an FO asset can't be taken for his word, which makes Leia frown, but Ackbar backs up her first point. He noted that its location is near a Hyperspace lane, and that makes it a good point for fast responses; they are already under supplied as is thanks to the Republic's growing financial crisis and the Cold War with the Hutts. He presses that they send a message to Coruscant for more troops.

Temmin disagrees, pressing that if they don't strike now, then the First Order can produce more Star Destroyers and other capitals; strike now and the Space War is in the Republic's favor and a rising threat crushed. FN actually backs this up himself, mentioning that the reason that the First Order has been doing so well in their fight to bring back an Empire is that mobility was their key. They design most everything to be transportable, and he imagines the Shipyard is likely to be towed away soon, possibly to Hutt Space since they take advantage of their independence and dislike of the Republic. Leia after much thinking agrees to the idea, though she doesn't like the gamble.

With their plans set, they get ready to set out for planning that raid.

As this happens, Rey finds herself awakening in a rough, but comfortable bed. She is still bandaged, but feels probably the best she's ever felt, made all moreso by her feeling safe for the first time in years. She's immediately suspicious, and tries to sneak out of said hut, attempting to not awaken a robed figure sleeping on the ground. It doesn't quite work when a series of whirring and beeping cause her to gasp and stagger on her butt.

It turns out its a rather amused R2 unit, beeping and jittering at her in a mix of exasperation and excitement, and she hears a figure stir near the floor. She then tries to threaten the man with a stick, which causes him to lightly pull it from her and thwack her softly in rebuke, a mild chuckle coming out at the amusement. The man casually uses the force to light a torch in a sconce, and you see it's Luke Skywalker. He's scarred up, weathered from age, is weighed somewhat from guilt, but you can't help but note throughout all of that, he is still smiling.

He tries to calm down Rey, but the long time out, her emotional state since Han died, and the fact she's not thinking straight just causes her to freak, and she tries to force push him. He is surprised for a bit and is knocked back slightly, and she tries to run.

The key word is she tries to run, as she finds out that she is on a fairly small island, and her ship is beyond damaged. She's trapped here. Again. Alone. Abandoned. She turns around when Luke comes towards her. She reels back before she finally just gives up, and begins to let out years of frustration, self-loathing, fear, and loss. Luke brushes past the force fireworks, and just proceeds to hold her, comforting her as he uses years of experience with kids to calm her down. He remarks that she lost so much, based on her ties to the Dark Side of the force. He can feel a variety of griefs, disappointments, and upsets.

He also provides an ear to listen to and offers her some blue m1lk, as it's always been something that he found helped during times of grief. She doesn't quite feel like it, but tired, she decides to do so.

During this impromptu meal, she 's mostly silent, before she haltingly asks who he is. He chuckles a bit and simply states an old war dog who was left behind by others. He gets into a bit of a row with R2 and argues a bit with the droid, both on wanting to just do as his previous masters did and it being tradition. Sighing, he then decides to ask who Rey is, trying to get out of the brewing argument. She takes some time to explain why she landed here, halting here and there when wounds were too fresh. The game ends when Luke learns about what happened to Han and who killed him. He himself begins to tear up, before he sighs, washes away most of the grief, and murmurs that "Ben, you were always my most difficult student... I wish it never came to this".

This familiarity baffles her and she inquires as to how he knew Kylo Ren's real name, until he gives up the game and reveals that he is in fact Luke Skywalker, at the moment the titular Last Jedi.
Rey is at first disbelieving that this is Luke, given that to most of the galaxy he died ten years ago while out in the Outer Rim establishing a New Jedi Academy. But, according to her intuition, guided by the force, she realizes that this is true. She gets pissed at this point and slaps him, demanding why he's been hiding all this time. Luke then comments that he really had no choice, as he then shows her his damaged beyond repair X-wing. He admits that Ben thought he killed him and took his students using their transport ship, but not before destroying everything on this planet. The planet being as sparse as it was, he probably was missed by scanners and thought dead.

He is frowning at this point before a smile comes back onto his face. He then admits that her own craft is salvageable, and that with parts from the X-Wing, they can both get off this planet. But he confesses a minor reluctance to do so until she promises one thing. Annoyed and suspicious, she asks what that could be. Luke then comments that he wants to train her to use the force as they work on the ship, as she shows a pretty strong connection to it but needs to be careful about the temptations of the Dark Side, which seem to be worming their way into her based on how badly disturbed she was.

She's dismissive at first, commenting that it was just a tool to be used, like her blaster and repair kit. Luke gets serious though and states that she should think back on her behavior and actions; in particular about her feelings. He asks if she always was so affected by her problems as before she tapped into her gift. She thinks a bit on it and realizes that she has been more impulsive and prone to lashing out than ever since Han died and she learned to bastardize one or two force techniques, but she saw it as how she grieved at the time.

Luke then admits that it's not bad to feel emotions, but the temptations of letting them rule you means you open yourself to the seductions of the Dark Side. Once ensnared, you tend to make mistakes you'd never wish to make. Ben learned that the hard way when he killed Han, based on the shift in the force that he felt and from what Rey said. Rey looks more uncertain now, and then reluctantly agrees to at least try to learn under Luke, who smiles as they shake hand and robot hand.

Speaking of Kylo Ren; he's actually getting chewed out by Snoke (who due to a coin flip, yes it's Jar Jar Binks) for making such mistakes at Starkiller Base. Ren is able to take it as it is something he's mostly used to by this point, but you can still see he's somewhat conflicted with emotions due to killing his father and due to being an insolent shit to a degree. Snoke then changes his tune however and comments that he is actually proud of him for managing to find the hate to kill his own father, as being able to cut ties like that is required as a lord of the Sith. Ren feels a mix of pride and disgust at feeling pride, as he thanks his master for the praise, but not before Snoke comments that he will soon be ready for one more task.

Ren goes out and his mood is made worse by Hux, who suggests where he and his "failed Jedi" can find the most uses. Ren tries to take out some of his frustration by verbally sparring with the man, referencing his failure in conditioning his soldiers given FN's betrayal. Hux doesn't bite to that and simply states that his track record still runs higher than Ren's given how he handled Starkiller Base; at least he was able to evacuate their jungle garrison. The two are just barely taken out of going into violence by the appearance of one of the Knights of Ren, who kneels like a feudal knight to Kylo and announces that one of their scout vessels has spotted a Republican scout in response. The two commanders then bury the hatchet and begin to plan together, Hux rather smugly hiding a weapon he's aware of.

The film would cut back to FN and the Republic at this point; the plan to take on the shipyard is a bold one, as Temmin and to a degree Leia were the ones to plan it out. The idea is to plan to take out that shipyard in a Pearl Harbor-esque way. The Mon Calamari ships will launch out their mixture of K, B, and Y wings in a bomber rush. The K-wings are to pin point bomb the dockwork tools and other important supply elements, while the B's and Y's focus on taking out unaware craft or under construction ships. They will be backed by a mix of A, E, and X wings.

The A wings will take advantage of their speed to scout and intercept any TIE fighters that go after the bombers, while the E's will escort the bombers directly. The X's will serve in their role as the allrounder fighter that made them still being used. The idea is to hit fairly quickly and then with some luck ready a second attack with their own defensive CAP if possible. It leaves the cruisers and frigates low on eyes and pinpoint defense, but it should be fine.
Rey and Luke split between fixing her ship and doing basic training to refine her force powers. One of the first examples of this training is actually a trick he picked up from Obi-Wan, where he blindfolds her and tells her to tap into that intuition to predict and move as he tries to thwack her with a stick. She's annoyed at first because he keeps hitting her, but he just chuckles and states he felt similar when he went through it, and notes at least it's not getting hit with a stun setting probe droid.

Eventually she gets annoyed, but then Luke mentions she's putting too much thought into it and the cynical act isn't going to help her; you have to trust in yourself and in the Force before you can really tap into it. Eventually she takes his advice and is able to swoop, dodge, and even jump over R2 who decides to join in the fun by trying to trip her. She also has her blaster out and it's aimed right at Luke's heart. He congratulates her and remarks she's a pretty fast learner.

Their relationship in a way is a mirror to Han and Luke given she in many ways is like Han, forced to grow up too fast when her parents sold her to slavery, had to escape and forge her own way as a junk dealer with trickery, and even not above grifting or even killing people. She clashes with Luke a lot at first, but slowly eases down as he continues to mentor her as they continue to work on the ship. She really struggles the most with understanding that the Force is not a tool; its in a way the spiritual background of the Galaxy, flowing through and guiding actions. Luke however, seems able to get through to her, mainly because she reminds him of a Ben that didn't give up hope yet and he was the best at getting to him before his fall.

Other touches you see is her shock and surprise at seeing large bodies of water for the first time, joy at seeing rain, and many other weather phenomenon that Luke and her decide to enjoy together, as they both hail from desert worlds. She's begun to heal emotionally and Luke deems her ready for one last test before they take off, as both he and she are impatient to get back, and he can still help train her during that time.

He takes her to the Dark Well, a strange object on the planet he found when building the temple. It was possibly the lair of one of the Old Sith at one point, as it naturally exudes the Dark Side of the force. He warns her that her greatest fears will be in there, but do not worry, it will not hurt her.

The Dark Well shows her to her horror herself killing FN, Chewie, and later Luke, under the purview of Ren as one of his Knights. She begins to panic, as she thinks she's seeing the future. But then she taps into her intuition and realizes that this isn't really a prophecy, it's her fear of becoming like Ren and killing those she cares about. She steps out of the well, shaken, but fine. Luke admits that this was a test that he himself didn't enjoy either, but she passed it just as well. With that final test, they head off to where the fleet was supposed to head post Starkiller Base Raid.

Speaking of that raid; for the first half hour it's going well, Temmin himself is flying alongside his wing and doing good point protection of the bombers, while FN himself is in an E Wing. Chewie is among the bombers, using the Falcon to join in the B and Y wings. He does however note that the dockyard seems to have less ships being built than he thought, but assumes it has something to do with it being transported soon. Things then turn when a new ship pops into the area.

It's an extremely large ship that vaguely looks like a Super Star Destroyer, but with less weapons. Temmin mocks it at first until it floods the area with hundreds of both TIEs and some new model of fighter, the very first Preybirds. The Dreadnought may be named after a battleship, but in this case it's a massive carrier that can flood the area with fighters and bombers. Things get worse when the fleet is spotted by hordes of Bounty Hunters, who were hired from Hutt Space and join in the hunt.

Dozens and dozens of men and women are killed in the slaughter; made all the worse when their home fleet is getting attacked. Several cruisers get raked with fire, and some of them begin breaking up. The CAP protection isn't enough, and these Bounty Hunters are some of the most hardened scum in the galaxy.

Leia demands that the attack force fall back, but Temmin refuses to let his crew die without a purpose; they have to win SOMETHING today. Holdo snaps back at him that this is a direct order from their commanding officer before he snidely cuts off her channel and directs some of the Y-wings to gun for the Dreadnought's engines, while the Bs and Ks are to finish off the dock. Holdo turns to Leia demanding she directly order him back, since they'll lose most of their projection power, but Leia sighs and confesses he's doing what she'd do in that spot, and orders the fleet to stick it out and move. Ackbar himself takes a risk by directly supporting their ships, dodging and weaving past fire and taking pot shots at the Dreadnought and taking pressure off the bombers.

It cuts to Hux being rather pleased with himself on the bridge, his negotiations with some of the greedier Hutts allowed this pincer move to happen; a new Axis of Evil if you will. This fleet gets wiped, and the First Order can essentially be free to run through the Mid Rim, as the weakened Republic will further spread itself too thin to contain what will surely be a two front war. He notices that some of the fighters and bombers are going for his engine and orders some of the fighters to come back to fight off this incursion.

Ren himself and his Knights are ripping through the bomber fleet, their sinister Preybird ships being the fastest sprinters in the First Order Arsenal. When he sees the Falcon however, Ren blanks for a moment as his emotions battle within him, and is nearly shot at by FN were it not for his force reflexes. He decides to further bury the legacy of his dad to get rid of that pain, and gets into a dogfight with the both of them.

FN is a pretty good pilot, but Ren himself is an expert, and he's clearly outmatched at first. Then he realizes something after getting hit and his engines begins sparking. These new fighters are fast, maybe even moreso than the A Wings, but their maneuverability is mediocre. He begins by trying to turn the fight into a turn battle, and is helped out by other wingmen when he tries radio'ing them about this. It's hard, but he manages to hold the Knights until the Dockyard crumbles at great cost.

Hux frowns at this, knowing that Snoke will not be pleased, but he commits to wiping out the main fleet. It goes well too, as a few cruisers and frigates light up; even if they lost the dockyard, this means the First Order now has fleet superiority in the region. At this point Leia begins to make an official order to fall back, the mission is over, but she is cut off by a direct hit to the superstructure and is injured along with Holdo and most of the crew. Morale plummets as they think she's dead.

Temmin sees the fireball, and commits to the engine attack. He takes great risks with his wingmen, and the mad lads dance through the flak field, his team dropping but still going to the horrified gunnery and fighter crews. He makes the attack run, and manages to damage some of the engines before skating off, thinned badly, but intact. At this point Ackbar takes command at the moment since it sounded like Leia and Holdo were killed, and orders a retreat; staying in risk range until as much of the pilots he can save falls back.

They won, but really, what price was this victory?
The Republic fleet limps out of the fight, having to play careful due to the bounty hunters still stalking them through the Mid Rim. The damage to the Radus wasn't as bad as thought, but most of the bridge crew are dead and her engines are leaking power a bit, slowing her down. Leia is barely alive, and Holdo herself just barely out of recovery. This leads to a very strained situation between the officers, as Holdo blames Temmin for this destruction of the fleet and how he could only spot the target, not realizing he handed the First Order a win. Temmin himself is angry, and tries to argue why he needed to take out that dockyard, but you can tell that he's conflicted, as he realized that the short term win might be demolished by their long term losses.

The biggest point of contention is this: both Holdo and Temmin share a similar rank and were deemed commanders in their respective fields. On the one hand, Holdo's technically now acting Fleet Admiral, given she was Leia's XO. But Temmin is loved by his crews and he leads their pilot forces and in the Republic, both would be of equal rank, despite his young age. Ackbar and FN are trying to play the peacemaker between the two, but it's clear that the two aren't willing to listen right now, and Holdo still dislikes and doesn't trust FN in the slightest. He sighs and just remains there to prevent a brawl or mutiny to happen.

Surprisingly it's Temmin who breaks, as Holdo does hold one last advantage; traditionally Fleet units are given higher seniority over the chief flight officers. He reluctantly acknowledges this, and she decides to confirm it by forcing him to stay grounded for a time, with an inquiry over his actions to be planned for later. Temmin is boiling with rage, but just accepts it and asks what their next stage of plans is. Holdo smirks and simply states that he'll find out later.

Hux reports directly to Snoke (Jar Jar) to give his after action report alongside Kylo Ren. Snoke muses for a time before first injuring them for damaging their newest weapons and losing a key strategic resource. He then chooses to reward both of them with praise and sparing their lives, as both managed to succeed in their own respective ways. The Fleet is in retreat, the First Order can now fight in parity for now, and many Hutts have alligned to his goals, giving him enough assets to potentially storm the Core Regions. He sends Hux off, but asks Kylo to stay.

Kylo manages to contain his annoyance and envy that Hux got the lion's share of the reward, but Snoke comments that Kylo became his prized pupil for a reason. But he still needs more refining, as he can sense his emotions, always so volatile and what made him his best, lack the conviction he once had. With that in mind, he asks Ren to look to his feelings deep within, and to sense out for a certain presence. Ren does so, and gasps and reels as he realizes something: his ex-master is alive. Snoke smiles and says his final test is to do one thing: eliminate Skywalker. Once he can do this; then he shall be complete and worthy of becoming a true Sith.

Rey and Luke meanwhile are just trying to find ways to stave off boredom before they come back to their pre-assigned fallback point. The two shudder in horror when they realized hundreds of thousands of lives were rapidly being snuffed out, and Rey feels the roiling fears, uncertainties, and dark emotions of her friends. The two of them must turn to them, and so redirect their course to follow them.

The sparks between Holdo and Temmin still fly during all of this; Temmin is getting frustrated with this long retreat and his period of grounding. He grows more and more angry as former crewmembers don't come back during recon, and he hates how there doesn't seem to be any hope. He wants and feels the need to know what the hell they're doing, where they're going. Morale is dropping because of this spat, and Leia isn't getting much better from her injuries. Temmin begins to muse on whether or not he should stage a mutiny, with FN being his last latch onto sanity.

FN himself is also getting annoyed; he gave up his own life and comrades to join the Republic out of a sense of right and wrong, and he's spent most of his time washing the brig and being kept out of the loop. He mainly complains to Chewie; who grunts in agreement at how bad the situation is. Things only start to change when Holdo finally announces to the group what the hell they're doing.

It turns out she was in secret communication with an old family friend and a lower ranking admiral of another fleet to send out a small reinforcement force. She kept their movements quiet since she also was using her connections to an old contact tied to the Hutts to use his planet to refit in exchange for some certain provisions. She kept mum until they were as safe as can be, especially given the new ground situation. Temmin is both annoyed and relieved, since at the very least he could understand why she did this and it wasn't a bad idea. FN also comments that he imagines it's because Temmin was friends with him, and she was just being paranoid. Chewie however looks suspicious...

It then cuts to Hux finishing a conversation with a figure you can't quite see who it is, before addressing his troopers. He gives a very strong speech about their progress in restoring law to this galaxy; that for too long corrupt Moffs and Senators would not care about the safety of their people. With this last strike; they will be able to free the Mid Rim from the tools of industrialists and nobility that call this region their plaything. Among the crowd is TR-8R, who cheers the loudest, baying for the blood of the man he once called friend.
 
Han is portrayed like a chicken shit while yellow yoda steals the glory and goes in guns ablazing and she's also better friends with Chewie and has known him longer... They even made her older... Instead of being 900 she's now over 1000+ years old and is implied to have existed since the era of the Old Republic/KOTOR.

Leave it up to Disney to shit on yet another loveable OT/PT character in Yoda by having Maz Kanata usurp his position, knowledge, and history. Sad part is that I, and possibly many other fans, would have liked to have seen and known how the pair interacted had they known each other well in centuries past.

The comic also implies that she's a "gray force user" who is not on the side of the jedi or the sith but who preserves the balance and knows all the ancient shit better than Yoda.

This certainly wouldn't conflict with Empire Strikes Back where the implication is that only Luke and Leia are the last two known Force-sensitives to both Yoda and Obi-Wan's Force ghost.

I still can't believe that The Last Jedi gave us not one, not two, but THREE characters that irritated me more than Jar Jar Binks ever did.

It's one thing for a movie to have an undeveloped or shit-tier character. To stay as succinct as possible: Episodes 7 & 8 have given us a steady diet of shit-tier, irritating characters with very few new characters that seem likeable or relatable to fans. In Jar-Jar's defense, at least he provided some semblance of comic relief. These ST characters are more cringe-worthy than anything.
[E: Spelling]
 
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I seethed in the movie theater every time General Hux was on screen, I rolled my eyes at everything involving Holdo (I saw that "twist" coming from a mile away, given the obvious setup with Poe and Leia), and I was constantly screaming internally with every line that Rose had.
Hux is emblematic of the utter disjointedness of the sequel trilogy. What a brilliant subversion, turning your space Nazi Tarkin-clone into a joke character on the level of Jar Jar and expecting the audience to eat that shit up. I swear, people would not have hated this nearly as much if it were just "backdoor OT remake" provided JJ or whoever didn't do the same shit he did with his Wrath of Khan "remake", which granted he probably would've done if he were in charge of Episode 8. I guess that movie was fucked no matter what, either pick your Ruin Johnson epic subversion of expectations or take the dumbest fucking knockoff of Empire Strikes Back you could ever imagine.

Seriously, fuck Star Trek Into Darkness. That movie was nothing but taking a giant shit on Wrath of Khan (although I liked original Spock's part shitty as it was that Nimoy' last role). I really wonder if the audience would've hated a Jar Jar Abrams Episode 8 which was to Empire Strikes Back as Into Darkness was to Wrath of Khan as much as they did TLJ. Imagine Finn and Rose re-enacting the carbonite scene but with shitty quips and the movie screaming at the audience as loud as it can without the characters breaking the fourth wall "HEY REMEMBER THIS SCENE REMEMBER THIS?"
 
Hux is emblematic of the utter disjointedness of the sequel trilogy. What a brilliant subversion, turning your space Nazi Tarkin-clone into a joke character on the level of Jar Jar and expecting the audience to eat that shit up. I swear, people would not have hated this nearly as much if it were just "backdoor OT remake" provided JJ or whoever didn't do the same shit he did with his Wrath of Khan "remake", which granted he probably would've done if he were in charge of Episode 8. I guess that movie was fucked no matter what, either pick your Ruin Johnson epic subversion of expectations or take the dumbest fucking knockoff of Empire Strikes Back you could ever imagine.

Seriously, fuck Star Trek Into Darkness. That movie was nothing but taking a giant shit on Wrath of Khan (although I liked original Spock's part shitty as it was that Nimoy' last role). I really wonder if the audience would've hated a Jar Jar Abrams Episode 8 which was to Empire Strikes Back as Into Darkness was to Wrath of Khan as much as they did TLJ. Imagine Finn and Rose re-enacting the carbonite scene but with shitty quips and the movie screaming at the audience as loud as it can without the characters breaking the fourth wall "HEY REMEMBER THIS SCENE REMEMBER THIS?"
Or we get them doing Hoth again but with a character all but looking straight at the camera to tell you that it's salt and not snow this time - wait....
 
It's one thing for a movie to have an undeveloped or shit-tier character. To stay as succinct as possible: Episodes 7 & 8 have given us a steady diet of shit-tier, irritating characters with very few new characters that seem likeable or relatable to fans. In Jar-Jar's defense, at least he provided some semblance of comic relief. These ST characters are more cringe-worthy than anything.

Hux made the villains of the movie a fucking joke and not threatening at all despite the supposedly dire situation happening throughout the movie, Holdo was Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson teaching us a lesson about mansplaining, and Rose was painted to be the "moral backbone" of the movie even though she was astoundingly idiotic.

Jar Jar is nothing more than a swing and a miss at comedy. That's literally it. He is easily far less insufferable than the three other characters I've mentioned.


Hux is emblematic of the utter disjointedness of the sequel trilogy. What a brilliant subversion, turning your space Nazi Tarkin-clone into a joke character on the level of Jar Jar and expecting the audience to eat that shit up. I swear, people would not have hated this nearly as much if it were just "backdoor OT remake" provided JJ or whoever didn't do the same shit he did with his Wrath of Khan "remake", which granted he probably would've done if he were in charge of Episode 8. I guess that movie was fucked no matter what, either pick your Ruin Johnson epic subversion of expectations or take the dumbest fucking knockoff of Empire Strikes Back you could ever imagine.

Seriously, fuck Star Trek Into Darkness. That movie was nothing but taking a giant shit on Wrath of Khan (although I liked original Spock's part shitty as it was that Nimoy' last role). I really wonder if the audience would've hated a Jar Jar Abrams Episode 8 which was to Empire Strikes Back as Into Darkness was to Wrath of Khan as much as they did TLJ. Imagine Finn and Rose re-enacting the carbonite scene but with shitty quips and the movie screaming at the audience as loud as it can without the characters breaking the fourth wall "HEY REMEMBER THIS SCENE REMEMBER THIS?"

It took me a few years to see the 2009 Star Trek movie. I remember not having any time at all to see it when it was in theaters, and I remember people going absolutely nuts over it, saying it was the best thing since sliced bread. Anyway, the movie just managed to escape me for a while. It happens.

Then my husband (boyfriend at the time) showed interest in seeing Into Darkness. Since I had not seen the first one, I saw the 2009 movie literally right before seeing Into Darkness in theaters. My initial reaction to it? I thought it was an enjoyable enough action movie (see what I did there?) with a pretty cookie cutter story; thought the pacing of the film was really "off" considering the ENTIRE movie followed a formula of "Kirk does something rebellious, conflict happens, conflict gets resolved, rinse and repeat." It was a movie that I thought was overrated.

Then I saw Into Darkness and almost cringed myself into a coma. Not only were my problems with the 2009 movie somehow infinitely worse in Into Darkness, but I thought the "plot" of the movie was beyond insulting to anyone's intelligence (Kurtzman and Orci are the banes of my existence when it comes to entertainment, btw). I remember that during the "KAAAAHHHHNNNNN!" moment, the audience in the theater audibly groaned.

Keep in mind that I wouldn't call myself a Trekkie (though, I have actually become what I would consider to be a casual fan of Star Trek shortly after seeing Into Darkness-- I've become quite the fan of TNG and DS9 especially), but I was SO pissed for the Star Trek fans at the time, because I just knew that they hated it. The movie was flat-out embarrassing.
 
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With the Star Trek park, I think with both CBS and Paramount coming back together, I think they can use all the good elements to draw in people with the original show and TNG. What they should do is have the layout be similar to the Lucasland version.

All Universal have to do to batter Galaxy's Edge is have a 'Whack-a-Neelix' stand
 
I just worry the Star Trek park will make the same fuck up as GE and be based solely on JJ Trek or Discovery rather than shit people actually want, like TOS, TNG or DS9. I want to have a drink with Bones and Quark while watching green Orion girls dance, have my picture taken with the crew of the original Enterprise while sitting on Kirk's chair or ride a roller coaster through V'GER's core or a Borg ship ffs. Not go on a shitty time traveling simulator with Spock's "sister" while being blinded by lens flare effects.
Imagine a Star Trek park where you have that ad that plays everytime you get close to a screen:

A Star Trek park could be interesting but I don't know what they could do with it. A roller coaster through a battle during the Dominion War? A TNG experience where people can visit the Enterprise D and random events can happen like a Borg intrusion and you would see the Starfleet personel guide the visitors while protecting them from the Borg? Or you enter the holodeck and you're in a Moriarty simulation? Also I don't know it would be successful, I mean Trek is more niche than Star Wars.
 
It took me a few years to see the 2009 Star Trek movie. I remember not having any time at all to see it when it was in theaters, and I remember people going absolutely nuts over it, saying it was the best thing since sliced bread. Anyway, the movie just managed to escape me for a while. It happens.

Then my husband (boyfriend at the time) showed interest in seeing Into Darkness. Since I had not seen the first one, I saw the 2009 movie literally right before seeing Into Darkness in theaters. My initial reaction to it? I thought it was an enjoyable enough action movie (see what I did there?) with a pretty cookie cutter story; thought the pacing of the film was really "off" considering the ENTIRE movie followed a formula of "Kirk does something rebellious, conflict happens, conflict gets resolved, rinse and repeat." It was a movie that I thought was overrated.

Then I saw Into Darkness and almost cringed myself into a coma. Not only were my problems with the 2009 movie somehow infinitely worse in Into Darkness, but I thought the "plot" of the movie was beyond insulting to anyone's intelligence (Kurtzman and Orci are the banes of my existence when it comes to entertainment, btw). I remember that during the "KAAAAHHHHNNNNN!" moment, the audience in the theater audibly groaned.

Keep in mind that I wouldn't call myself a Trekkie (though, I have actually become what I would consider to be a casual fan of Star Trek shortly after seeing Into Darkness-- I've become quite the fan of TNG and DS9 especially), but I was SO pissed for the Star Trek fans at the time, because I just knew that they hated it. The movie was flat-out embarrassing.

I thought Trek 2009 had a fairly simplistic story, but I thought it would be a greater jumping off point for more cerebral stories, I liked the cast, there was a world of potential.

But Into Darkness was fucking awful, fucking hell did I hate sitting through that shitpile, it was so bad I skipped Beyond even though I heard it was better, but I just didn't care by that point.

It's the same deal with Disney's Star Wars funnily enough, I knew TFA had a very mediocre story, but I saw potential as a springboard for future stories, but history repeated itself and they totally cratered any potential with the second entry.
 
I never understood the love for Star Trek 09. It wasn't an utter clusterfuck but by no means would I call it good.

It was like a fanfic written by a promising kid. It did a lot right.

It's kind of amazing how Abrams got to make films in the biggest franchises in entertainment when the best I can say about him is that he shows some potential.
Pretty much this. It's JJ Abrams writing ST fanfic. He loves what he's doing (which is a plus)... but he's not nearly as good at it as he THINKS he is.

Still, the casting isn't bad. Karl Urban really is an amazing actor, Chris Pine was solid enough, and Zachary Quinto does a pretty good Nimoy impersonation.
 
Fuck, who was the protagonist in Force Awakens? I can tell you it’s not Rey. The fact that she’s unstoppable without any character development nor trial makes it impossible to root for, plus she’s fucking boring herself. It’s not Fin, given he has more background than Rey and tries to grow as a character but is sidelined later as a comic relief idiot. It’s definitely not Poe, since he’s hardly in the movie. So really, Force Awakens has no protagonist, and with no protagonist, there’s no story, which is what this movie suffers from the most. Same with Last Jedi, as none of the main three never progress at the end as the same time there’s no plot.
 
I thought Trek 2009 had a fairly simplistic story, but I thought it would be a greater jumping off point for more cerebral stories, I liked the cast, there was a world of potential.

But Into Darkness was fucking awful, fucking hell did I hate sitting through that shitpile, it was so bad I skipped Beyond even though I heard it was better, but I just didn't care by that point.

It's the same deal with Disney's Star Wars funnily enough, I knew TFA had a very mediocre story, but I saw potential as a springboard for future stories, but history repeated itself and they totally cratered any potential with the second entry.

I have quite a few close friends who are Trekkies. When Star Trek 2009 came out, they raved about it. Not because the movie was "the most amazing thing ever," but because the movie had a great cast and it showed promise for those future "cerebral" Star Trek movies while making the brand palatable to normies. Lots of Trekkies I know were all like "Oh my goodness, I've been made fun of for loving Star Trek all my life ... Is Star Trek about to become cool?!" back then.

Then Into Darkness came out and my friends were so, so angry. Haha.
 
I was talking with some friends last night and we were discussing things Disney could have done with the ST.

We got around to Zonama Sekot being worked into the films. FYI, ZS is basically the Jedi equivalent of what Mogo is the Green Lanterns.

Somehow, a sentient Jedi planet seems a lot less silly when you consider Time Travel is all but confirmed to be making it into IX, lol.
 
A Star Trek park could be interesting but I don't know what they could do with it. A roller coaster through a battle during the Dominion War? A TNG experience where people can visit the Enterprise D and random events can happen like a Borg intrusion and you would see the Starfleet personel guide the visitors while protecting them from the Borg? Or you enter the holodeck and you're in a Moriarty simulation? Also I don't know it would be successful, I mean Trek is more niche than Star Wars.
I admire your optimism but let's not kid ourselves, it would be Michael Burnham, klingorcs and "I fucking love math" all the way down.
 
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Looks like the official SW page on Twitter made a poll for "International Friendship Day" to have people vote for their favorite BFFs in Star Wars, and it appears they were banking on disney sequel BFFs winning the poll considering how much they were shilling them. Imagine their shock and the shock of their nu-fans when Disney BFFs got BTFO by OT BFFs in the polls. The comments are amusing too for the most part.

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Rey & Finn vs 3 pairs who had years together. (Yeah, even though we haven't seen it, Finn & BB are implied to be like han & chewy - together for awhile.)
 
Coming out of TFA, aspects I disliked the most were Starkiller Base (Death Star knockoff) and Snoke (Emperor knockoff)

So when TLJ rolled around, I actually liked that Rian threw Snoke away like he was nothing because, to me, he shouldn't have been there in the first place, lol.

My initial idea for Kylo when the first teaser trailers started coming out was that he was a self taught Sith, that tried to learn all he could by collecting what little information was left behind from the near Sith extinction from the Old Republic days and what little was left behind when the Empire fell. That's why his lightsaber looked like a mess...because he had to learn how to make a saber by himself from poorly cobbled together notes from various sources. That's why he has Darth Vader's helmet...he is collecting as much knowledge on the Sith as he can.

That sort of played into my original idea for the ST: There is no Republic. No Empire. No unified government. The galaxy has been torn apart by war and its just two armies fighting for territory with many planets caught in the middle or disconnected from the rest of the galaxy and an entire generation that heard the stories of the wars as bedtime stories. It is almost post apocalyptic in a way. I don't know, but seeing the crashed Star Destroyer in the desert on that first teaser really got my brain going on that idea.

Having Snoke thrown into the mix only created the Emperor/Vader dynamic again, which only fed into the Empire Vs. Rebels conflict being rehashed again, and that was just boring to me. I was actually hoping, at the very least, Snoke would be revealed as a "Wizard of Oz" type, a liar that claims to have amazing power, but really doesn't, and it would turn out he was a military leader that wanted The Empire back and used parlor tricks to convince Kylo to help him. Maybe I was just hoping he would be revealed to be Thrawn since I really would have wanted him over an Emperor knock off from the start, but hey, lol.

My point is, there are plenty of different things they could have done
 
Coming out of TFA, aspects I disliked the most were Starkiller Base (Death Star knockoff) and Snoke (Emperor knockoff)

So when TLJ rolled around, I actually liked that Rian threw Snoke away like he was nothing because, to me, he shouldn't have been there in the first place, lol.

My initial idea for Kylo when the first teaser trailers started coming out was that he was a self taught Sith, that tried to learn all he could by collecting what little information was left behind from the near Sith extinction from the Old Republic days and what little was left behind when the Empire fell. That's why his lightsaber looked like a mess...because he had to learn how to make a saber by himself from poorly cobbled together notes from various sources. That's why he has Darth Vader's helmet...he is collecting as much knowledge on the Sith as he can.

That sort of played into my original idea for the ST: There is no Republic. No Empire. No unified government. The galaxy has been torn apart by war and its just two armies fighting for territory with many planets caught in the middle or disconnected from the rest of the galaxy and an entire generation that heard the stories of the wars as bedtime stories. It is almost post apocalyptic in a way. I don't know, but seeing the crashed Star Destroyer in the desert on that first teaser really got my brain going on that idea.

Having Snoke thrown into the mix only created the Emperor/Vader dynamic again, which only fed into the Empire Vs. Rebels conflict being rehashed again, and that was just boring to me. I was actually hoping, at the very least, Snoke would be revealed as a "Wizard of Oz" type, a liar that claims to have amazing power, but really doesn't, and it would turn out he was a military leader that wanted The Empire back and used parlor tricks to convince Kylo to help him. Maybe I was just hoping he would be revealed to be Thrawn since I really would have wanted him over an Emperor knock off from the start, but hey, lol.

My point is, there are plenty of different things they could have done
That’s how I feel about Rian when he was given shit from JJ and decided to wing it. Granted, he fucked up hard, but there’s wasn’t anything decent for him to work off of.
 
I never understood the love for Star Trek 09. It wasn't an utter clusterfuck but by no means would I call it good.

It was like a fanfic written by a promising kid. It did a lot right.

It's kind of amazing how Abrams got to make films in the biggest franchises in entertainment when the best I can say about him is that he shows some potential.

What made Star Trek 09 impressive was simply novelty, it was the first of these big, splashy Hollywood adaptations of ultra nerdy non-comic book franchises.

I was basically the target audience, someone who knew Star Trek from cultural osmosis but hadn't really experienced it firsthand, it was exciting to see those characters and that world portrayed in a way that felt very modern, hip and fresh.

I remember while watching the movie stopping and thinking to myself just how cool it was to see Leonard Nimoy portraying Spock again, that they found a way for him to be a part of it and it was a respectful tribute to him.

Sure the simple "bad guy wants to take over the universe" plot was just that, simplistic, but fine to just get things off the ground, the real story was simply how the crew first met and assembled.

When the movie ended with the Enterprise flying off into space I genuinely believed it would lead to a bold, cerebral story next time, since one of the cultural osmosis things I knew about Star Trek as a franchise was it was supposed to be smart... right?

You also have to keep the movie in context of the vibe of what things were like a decade ago, it was the first year of Barack Obama, it felt like we were finally entering the "post-post 9/11" era, the Iraq war was winding down and suddenly geek culture was fast becoming "cool", while sure everyone was worried about the recession, you had reason to be hopeful things would work out ok, it was overall an exciting time and Star Trek 09 was very much the movie of the moment, I remember seeing a photo that someone made of Obama photoshopped to look like Spock, which really summed it all up.

So in other words, it wasn't that great of a movie on it's own but it had potential to lead to great things, just like 2009 wasn't that great of a year on it's own, but there was potential for great things in the future, which is more than what we can say for now, ten years later.
 
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