The need for Stoicism - Why trannies and incels are miserable.

[Axiomatically Pro-Choice]

I have seen more need for stoicism lately. The greatest examples would be trannies and incels, both hinge their happiness on the behavior of others, breaking the core tenant in stoic philosophy.

Stoic philosophy is very practical tool in our everyday lives, it should be seen more as something you practice and not something you merely think about. It relies on two basic assumption of the world, that we are able to change our disposition and thoughts and furthermore that some things are in our control and some thing are not. Epictetus writes in the excellent short book The Enchiridion:

1. Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.

Given this, we should not worry of things which are not in our control, again Epictetus writes:

But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.

Those interested can read The Enchiridion here.

Now, some trannies hinge their happiness on what pronoun other people use or their behavior around them. This is a clear stoical mistake, you can not control other peoples use of words, they can of course have preferred indifference's; request a usage of a specific pronoun but be indifferent as to whether they actually use it.

The case of incels is even more clear, their entire existence and life joy seems to depend on whether they will manage to get a girlfriend or not, I sympathize with incels but this is a major life mistake. There are those who transcend this, cast away their obsession with women and go their own way MGTOWs but they have their own problems.
Post other examples of people blatantly breaking tenants of stoicism and discuss.

 

[Xiphias]

Finish your post OP. What did Epictetus write?

 

[IV 445]

I dunno, stoicism sounds a lot like apathy and I think the reverse is needed for the two problems you pointed out.

 

[Axiomatically Pro-Choice]

I dunno, stoicism sounds a lot like apathy and I think the reverse is needed for the two problems you pointed out.

The modern view of stoicism has separated a bit from its philosophical roots. A stoic is not apathetic, it has more to do with keeping an emotionally stable keel. If my mother dies I will become overcome with sadness. However it's not a healthy thing to be sad. Furthermore ones personal stoicism does not mean you hold other to the same standards. I could still comfort my siblings as a stoic, I would even be in a better position to do so if I am mentally stable.

 

[ES 195]

The modern view of stoicism has separated a bit from its philosophical roots. A stoic is not apathetic, it has more to do with keeping an emotionally stable keel. If my mother dies I will become overcome with sadness. However it's not a healthy thing to be sad. Furthermore ones personal stoicism does not mean you hold other to the same standards. I could still comfort my siblings as a stoic, I would even be in a better position to do so if I am mentally stable.

Sounds like it's always been a fine line between stoicism and apathy. If that's true then calling for more people to practice is a waste of time since it means most will and never have had the good balance of stoicism.
Trannys and incels have issues with seeing what the real issue is. Troons argue for pronouns because it's easier and makes them feel more special than actually trying to convince people that they're really the opposite gender since one look at them makes it obvious they're lying.
Incels are the same in which they focus on all women as stacies and not the social bonds and maturity that bring people together.
I don't think stoicism is what either of these groups need, I personally think they just need a new perspective.

 

[verissimus]

The modern view of stoicism has separated a bit from its philosophical roots. A stoic is not apathetic, it has more to do with keeping an emotionally stable keel. If my mother dies I will become overcome with sadness. However it's not a healthy thing to be sad. Furthermore ones personal stoicism does not mean you hold other to the same standards. I could still comfort my siblings as a stoic, I would even be in a better position to do so if I am mentally stable.

Yes, but I think the simpler way to look at it is that the Stoic recognizes pain and feelings of it, but they believe that at some point you just have to suck it up and power on through.

Also, never forget the contribution to Stoicism by the emperor Marcus Aurelius.

 

[Oskar Dirlewanger]

Stoicism was created by and for free men. Women and slaves weren't its target. A free man could use philosophy as a tool to further his perfection. But in modern day, the great majority of people, especially in the West, are on the level such that even the most debased slave from antique era would spit on them and consider them more disgusting than any being. If you combine an ideology that considers weakness as a sacrum with technological advancement allowing for unnaturaly low infant mortality, the result is total hijacking of civilization and turning it into a life support for people who are literally unfit to live, and a breeding ground for a new race that will be an experiment in how low humanity can go.

For example, infants who are fed "infant formula" instead of being normally breast fed (or even fed good old cow milk), have estrogene levels 17,000 (seventeen THOUSAND) times higher than normal. If you have estrogene levels that high during infancy when your brain and entire organism is developing, you WILL turn into a troon, incel or other subgenre of faggot when you are adult. No amount of philosophy could help incels etc. because they are endocrinal jokes. Comparing the two, troons are somehow more rational because they at least acknowledge they are unfit to be men, while incels still want to live under the illusion that it's just cultural things that keep them from being normal men.

 

[Axiomatically Pro-Choice]

Sounds like it's always been a fine line between stoicism and apathy. If that's true then calling for more people to practice is a waste of time since it means most will and never have had the good balance of stoicism.
Trannys and incels have issues with seeing what the real issue is. Troons argue for pronouns because it's easier and makes them feel more special than actually trying to convince people that they're really the opposite gender since one look at them makes it obvious they're lying.
Incels are the same in which they focus on all women as stacies and not the social bonds and maturity that bring people together.
I don't think stoicism is what either of these groups need, I personally think they just need a new perspective.

I found this explanation on the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, it nails down exactly what I think troons and incels need.

Thus, the view that one should be ‘apathetic,’ in its original Hellenistic sense, is not the view that you shouldn’t care about anything, but rather the view that you should not be psychologically subject to anything – manipulated and moved by it, rather than yourself being actively and positively in command of your reactions and responses to things as they occur or are in prospect. It connotes a kind of complete self-sufficiency.

Stoicism was created by and for free men. Women and slaves weren't its target. A free man could use philosophy as a tool to further his perfection. But in modern day, the great majority of people, especially in the West, are on the level such that even the most debased slave from antique era would spit on them and consider them more disgusting than any being. If you combine an ideology that considers weakness as a sacrum with technological advancement allowing for unnaturaly low infant mortality, the result is total hijacking of civilization and turning it into a life support for people who are literally unfit to live, and a breeding ground for a new race that will be an experiment in how low humanity can go.

For example, infants who are fed "infant formula" instead of being normally breast fed (or even fed good old cow tard cum), have estrogene levels 17,000 (seventeen THOUSAND) times higher than normal. If you have estrogene levels that high during infancy when your brain and entire organism is developing, you WILL turn into a troon, incel or other subgenre of faggot when you are adult. No amount of philosophy could help incels etc. because they are endocrinal jokes. Comparing the two, troons are somehow more rational because they at least acknowledge they are unfit to be men, while incels still want to live under the illusion that it's just cultural things that keep them from being normal men.

I mostly agree with you, there is probably no stopping people from trooning out or becoming incels. And most overstate the effects of our current society, stating that everything is social etc. However I think some stoicism can go a long way into them establishing their own agency and not merely be taken with the stream. MGTOWs, while being retarded at least set out to achieve something that's in their own control. Another point to add is that Epictetus was born a slave and later became a cripple, still he later became somewhat of an equivalence to a philosophy professor.

 

[wylfım]

For example, infants who are fed "infant formula" instead of being normally breast fed (or even fed good old cow tard cum), have estrogene levels 17,000 (seventeen THOUSAND) times higher than normal.

Holy shit, sauce on that?

Anyways, if anyone's interested, this video is actually very well made, and details a bit of the development of, and the tenets of, stoicism.

 

[oldTireWater]

Seeking guidance or validation in the study of philosophy is a sign of emotional weakness. We all go through that phase in one way or another. Once you grow to be an adult and find yourself, the angsty musings of philosophers lose their interest.

 

[Wallace]

Unfortunately, it's not as easy as standing up and saying, "I'm going to be a Stoic!" If freeing ourselves from desire was a matter of reading a few books or listening to a few podcasts, we'd all be Buddhas.

Troonery and inceldom are both malign coping mechanisms, they are ways of dealing with your bad feelings by projecting them onto others. There's a secondary benefit to troonery/inceldom that soothes emotional upset, and trying to give it up cold turkey is like trying to go cold turkey from heroin.

 

[Oskar Dirlewanger]

Holy shit, sauce on that?

Exposure of infants to phyto-oestrogens from soy-based infant formula. - PubMed - NCBI

Mean (SD) plasma concentrations of genistein and daidzein in the seven infants fed soy-based formulas were 684 (443) ng/mL and 295 (60) ng/mL, respectively, which was significantly greater (p < 0.05) than in the infants fed either cow-milk formulas (3.2 [0.7] and 2.1 [0.3] ng/mL), or human breast-milk (2.8 [0.7] and 1.4 [0.1] ng/mL), and an order of magnitude higher per bodyweight than typical plasma concentrations of adults consuming soy foods.

The daily exposure of infants to isoflavones in soy infant-formulas is 6-11 fold higher on a bodyweight basis than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods. Circulating concentrations of isoflavones in the seven infants fed soy-based formula were 13000-22000 times higher than plasma oestradiol concentrations in early life.

I remember another similar study made on a larger number of cases which averaged on 17000 hence why I put that number, also another one that specifically cross referenced the results with data not only from infants on breast/cow milque but also with adults on different diets (normal/asian/vegan) and while becoming a vegan in adulthood will just make you slightly more weak and idiotic, feeding babies infant formula will inadvertedly DOOM THEM TO BE TOTAL FUCKUPS.

Adult organism learns to respond to xenoestrogenes and diminish their effects. Animal hormones like in bovine milque are quickly identified for what they are and won't ruin the endocrine homeostasis. Phytoestrogenes are quite a harder job, but it's still unlikely to become a tranny by drinking lots of beer (though if you drink IPA you will certainly start craving dick in your ass after some time), and synthetic xenoestrogenes coming from plastsic etc. are the worst in terms of endocrine disruption, but still nowhere nearly as damaging as literally pumping the baby with liquid titty skittle from day one.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

The modern view of stoicism has separated a bit from its philosophical roots. A stoic is not apathetic, it has more to do with keeping an emotionally stable keel. If my mother dies I will become overcome with sadness. However it's not a healthy thing to be sad. Furthermore ones personal stoicism does not mean you hold other to the same standards. I could still comfort my siblings as a stoic, I would even be in a better position to do so if I am mentally stable.

Also (using personal examples)

My grandfather died of a degenerative neurological disorder that robbed us of his mind and his person. [In his early 90s] My grandmother died of grief, old age, and the consequences of decades of bad health choices (smoking) also in her early 90s.

They are gone, I miss them.....but they were at the age where IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN SOON. So I couldnt be super duper sad about it. I was more annoyed by all the drama my relatives created because they didnt embrace a rationalistic approach to their death and were lashing out at each other.

I was comforting to them for their loss if they werent being abusive to each other

 

[Axiomatically Pro-Choice]

Seeking guidance or validation in the study of philosophy is a sign of emotional weakness. We all go through that phase in one way or another. Once you grow to be an adult and find yourself, the angsty musings of philosophers lose their interest.

Unfortunately, it's not as easy as standing up and saying, "I'm going to be a Stoic!" If freeing ourselves from desire was a matter of reading a few books or listening to a few podcasts, we'd all be Buddhas.

Troonery and inceldom are both malign coping mechanisms, they are ways of dealing with your bad feelings by projecting them onto others. There's a secondary benefit to troonery/inceldom that soothes emotional upset, and trying to give it up cold turkey is like trying to go cold turkey from heroin.

Yes thinking mere labels and theoretical knowledge will make it any better is naive at best. What I personally find appealing with stoicism is that it is something you practice, theory is at most useful as guidance. But it is oneself that should actively avoid getting distraught by that which is outside your control. Of course this is not easy or just a matter of what you call yourself, stoicism is something you practice and do.

 

[Slap47]

1.

Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.

The modern view is that you can control these things through state force and social engineering. Whether or not that is true shall be decided in the coming centuries.

 

[mindlessobserver]

The modern view is that you can control these things through state force and social engineering. Whether or not that is true shall be decided in the coming centuries.

It's not true and it will be decided in the coming decades. For all their intelligence the academic and economic elite of today are no more in charge then the feudal and religious elite of the past. It's the nature of all human societies to form a hierarchy. It is also the nature of human societies to burn the fucking thing the ground every now and again.

Stoicism is a good philosophy for dealing with random petty shit but it's not a good philosophy for dealing with social issues. I would even take the OPs argument and turn it on its head. A stoic Transsexual is one who rather then hide behind the facade of his biological gender would instead strongly assert the gender he feels he is, despite the social ramifications of doing so.

People also assume that transsexuals are a new phenomenon. They are not. It's been something human society has dealt with since we have had society. What is new is the idea that it's a unique status deserving special rights, and this is a modern phenomenon born from the fact that multi million dollar Gay Rights Charities and NGOs needed a reason to exist after they had won the war for Gay Rights.

Dave Chapelle really said it best when he commented that the T in LGBT didnt really want to go where the car driven by the G was going, and that both the L and the G didnt want the T in the car in the first place.

 

[Emperor Julian]

It's certainly worth looking into philosophy in general since it's looking increasingly likely sky dad doesnt exist and hedonism doesnt cut it. But I'm pretty sure a Stoic transexual would proceed with altering their body as the logical resolution to your anxiety.

People also assume that transsexuals are a new phenomenon. They are not. It's been something human society has dealt with since we have had society. What is new is the idea that it's a unique status deserving special rights, and this is a modern phenomenon born from the fact that multi million dollar Gay Rights Charities and NGOs needed a reason to exist after they had won the war for Gay Rights.

What's interesting is how seamlesly both sides shifted when Gay marridge went through. It's almost as though their's a gentlemens agreement on both sides to continue an arguement for the sake of the plebs instead of say addressing something important.

 

[Axiomatically Pro-Choice]

A stoic Transsexual is one who rather then hide behind the facade of his biological gender would instead strongly assert the gender he feels he is, despite the social ramifications of doing so.

Yes, however they would not care for the social acceptance of other people. The point I'm trying to nail down, I think, is this one: the obsessiveness with turning every personal issue into a social issue is detrimental to the individuals well-being. Stoicism backs this, as in we can not control society at large, making moral outrage useless for the individual; you can still be an activist but not be deranged.

It's certainly worth looking into philosophy in general since it's looking increasingly likely sky dad doesnt exist and hedonism doesnt cut it. But I'm pretty sure a Stoic transexual would proceed with altering their body as the logical resolution to your anxiety.

I don't agree, a stoic would not hinge their well-being on boy parts. Epictetus again:

3. With regard to whatever objects give you delight, are useful, or are deeply loved, remember to tell yourself of what general nature they are, beginning from the most insignificant things. If, for example, you are fond of a specific ceramic cup, remind yourself that it is only ceramic cups in general of which you are fond. Then, if it breaks, you will not be disturbed. If you kiss your child, or your wife, say that you only kiss things which are human, and thus you will not be disturbed if either of them dies.

But yes they could also argue that it's just a dick, might as well chop it off.

About a stoic MtF:

The stoic transsexual
Sat and deliberated
Her feeling intellectual
The mind was agitated

About her body
Why not change
It felt shoddy
Time to exchange

She called a doctor
Which rapidly mocked her

Maybe I cant control my genus
After all it is only a penis

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

This stoicism fad is making me facepalm. I mean, it's cool that a bunch of room temp-IQ'ed social media addicts are now interested in Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus for some reason, but it strikes me as a moral and ethical "reboot to last known good configuration"... only, they booted back several configurations too many.

Stoicism was largely subsumed by Christianity and I think was all the better for it. (See: St. Ambrose of Milan, a Stoic that many Stoic-fadders ignore because muh Christianity). Without the telos that Christianity posits, Stoicism becomes an incoherent, decontextualized philosophy of masochism.

 

[Van Darkholme]

Stoicism is very theraputic and I try to insert some degree of it into my daily life. I'd recomend it.
Though I must admit it's hard to be indifferent on certain topics sometimes.
Would it help spergs and troons to not freak out? Probably not.