Women with PCOS or CAH have excess testosterone, effects of which include excess hair growth, deeper voices, enlarged clits in CAH, and fertility problems. They are still women because they were born women. The testosterone "changed" their bodies, but didn't turn them into men because it can't.
I'm not claiming he is a women, and I don't think taking testosterone makes a women a man. I think these definitions and distinctions are important, and not at all arbitrary. I fully agree with you.
You're willing to admit that
"The testosterone "changed" their bodies", but then you contradict yourself by saying "It's just cosmetic,
not actual body changes.", but your definition of "actual changes" disregards "actual changes" lol. You see what i'm saying?
If you took Jazz, and you cut him off from his Estrogen, but kept blocking his Testosterone to the levels they are at, his mental state is going to deteriorate rapidly. That's because the Estrogen modulations his mind just as much as it would any biological women. That's not me saying he's a women, mind you, but that's me pointing out that he absolutely has undergone clear feminization through hormone replacement therapy, just as a chick would when going through puberty.
Trans people like to claim that they'll have a "second puberty" on HRT. It's just cosmetic, not actual body changes. A man isn't going to suddenly form ovaries, a uterus, fallopian tubes, etc in his abdominal cavity because he's on estrogen. A woman's clit isn't going to turn into a dick after being on T. Your biology is hard set. Not even surgery can change that. Jazz will never be female (and therefore go through female puberty) because he is a male. All the estrogen did to him was give him tuberous breasts and further shrink his needle dick. You can see the breasts when he doesn't wear a bra. They look like orangutan tits. Estrogen altered his body, but not for the best and certainly not in the way it would to a woman.
PS- a lot of guys on estrogen or have excess estrogen lessen or lose their libido. When Jazz was suggested T to enlarge his dick (for more surgery material) there was also the hope that it'd give him some sense of a libido.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that if you give a woman without Ovaries Estrogen you can stabilize her biology and sexuality to that of normal levels, just as you can give a man without Testicles Testosterone to allow him to achieve orgasms and erections.
Not claiming he isn't. I am saying he has undergone some degree of female puberty.
It's not "waiting" for anything.
Certain biological functions are active or semi-active, depending on the circumstances. If coaxed in the right manner they will activate, as is the case with excessive Testosterone in women and excess Estrogen in men. Why else would men grown breasts when given more Estrogen? Why else would the Clit enlarge in women when given Testosterone? Biology is a menagerie of repurposed organs and vestigial functions all built chaotically over top of each other. It would be more surprising to me that these sorts of things
wouldn't happen when given Estrogen or Testosterone.
...
This is starting to stray into a more generalized discussion of Transgenderism overall though, which isn't my intention, and this isn't the place for that. I do think the definition of "Prepubescent" is a tad narrow, though I can certainly concede that Jazz is neither fully formed in either direction, though I think it's a stretch to say that he is entirely "Prepubescent" by this point after experiencing years of hormone therapy.
I'll leave it at that. It's really just a mild disagreement of syntax and hardly worth sperging over.
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