Terminator: Dark Fate - Cause we need another one of these apparently.

[Krokodil Overdose]

Better than Moviebob’s Terminator script, at least.

Damning with faint praise.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

I think the series will be on ice for a long ass while if not being terminated altogether. I can only see maybe a future war movie but outside of that....what the FUCK can they do that doesnt feel like a broken record?

No one wants a future war movie

A war in time with both sides doing moves and counter movies is the way to go.

Alternatively: They need to go back to their horror roots [The lack of horror is the common tie between all not T1 and T2 movies in this series]

So to sum up, a group of top (white) men managed to churn out a disappointingly safe and incompetent screenplay for a Terminator film, amid frequent tensions between a newbie director and an industry legend who originated the franchise.

The story structurally was ok. The moving parts of the story were bland and didnt make internal sense. The lack of internal sense shows they didnt even half bake their ideas

As a worst example of non-baked ideas: Why was Danni a illegal alien "Hey you guys...look at how militarized the border has become. Arent we already in a Dystopia?" Thats kinda dumb bro. She came from a middle-class family in Mexico City. Now if she lived in Cartel territory and she was a little savy and streetwise THEN her being an illegal alien would be about her having some survival skills which would serve her in her ultimate destiny. But no she was an illegal for a cheap political message that didnt fit into the story's broader narrative.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

Unpopular opinion: Deadpool is overrated, both the movie and character. She Hulk was doing his gimmick decades before (and was pure eye candy while doing it)

I thought Deadpool 1 was way better than 2, but even still I'd be interested in bringing back sexy She-Hulk to compete with him, in place of the woke "Why So Serious" hambeast we have now. I'm already tired of Ryan Reynolds playing his Deadpool lolsorandom persona in every movie (Hobbs & Shaw being the most recent example), and She-Hulk was before my time.

Flip the script: in the future, humanity is on the brink of defeat at the hands (or whatever) of Legion. As a hail mary play, a human warrior sent back in time to awaken another AI and prevent the rise of Legion, and a Legion terminator (not shit this time kthx) sent back to stop him. Human warrior ropes in the memberry cast because hey, they're the people who know about all this future shit, they should be able to help. This gives our cast a dilemma: stop him and try to fight Legion in the future, or help him and prevent Legion, but get a different Judgement Day now. This is kind of a mean idea, since the Skynet future was better (humanity was on the brink of victory) but it makes for a more interesting plot than "break the robot."

Still sounds a little overthought and derivative, but you could still probably make a really good movie out of it and not another Genisys. Plus John would still be alive and Sarah would've been allowed a normal life again.

No one wants a future war movie

People wanna see the pew-pew laser fire at night in a Fallout setting with Brad Fiedel music. Anything less than that and I'd agree.

The risk is fucking up the Future War, but Salvation didn't do that bad a job. The only way for it to work is to either have genuine fans calling the shots, or forcing competent writers & directors to make a movie that their audience wants even if they think it's boring or isn't daring enough. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this excuse for movies/shows that did poorly or pissed off fans, but enough to remember that sometimes you need to suffer to put out good work.

A war in time with both sides doing moves and counter movies is the way to go.

I like the idea. Reminds me of the Terminator boardgame:

This could fit in nicely into the time loop framework of Terminator/T1, with T2 being the real final battle.

The Terminator: The Official Board Game

Description from the publisher: The Terminator: The Official Board Game is an asymmetrical strategy game played across two boards: one in 1984 and one in 2029. One player takes control of all the forces of the machines — Hunter Killer flying machines, Terminator endoskeletons, and new robots...

boardgamegeek.com

Alternatively: They need to go back to their horror roots [The lack of horror is the common tie between all not T1 and T2 movies in this series]

If ever they were to decide to reboot this franchise with The Rock as the new Terminator, this would be vital to it's success: low-budget and a hard R, not a wishy-washy "We'll make it R in post with CG blood and swear words."

As a worst example of non-baked ideas: Why was Danni a illegal alien "Hey you guys...look at how militarized the border has become. Arent we already in a Dystopia?" Thats kinda dumb bro. She came from a middle-class family in Mexico City. Now if she lived in Cartel territory and she was a little savy and streetwise THEN her being an illegal alien would be about her having some survival skills which would serve her in her ultimate destiny. But no she was an illegal for a cheap political message that didnt fit into the story's broader narrative.

Yeah, it was a blatant shoehorn in for it's own sake, not for the plot or the franchise. Hopefully if this movie tanks hard enough they'll get the message that their audience is not woke TDS-tards no matter how much they want them to be.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

People wanna see the pew-pew laser fire at night in a Fallout setting with Brad Fiedel music. Anything less than that and I'd agree.

The risk is fucking up the Future War, but Salvation didn't do that bad a job. The only way for it to work is to either have genuine fans calling the shots, of forcing competent writers & directors to make a movie that their audience wants even if they think it's boring or isn't daring enough. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this excuse for movies/shows that did poorly or pissed off fans, but enough to remember that sometimes you need to suffer to put out good work.

But whats the STORY of a future war movie?

Salvation ALMOST was on point [IMO] but it didn't really have a strong identity of what it wanted to be about. But its original plan was to replace John. So since T3 they've been trying to get rid of John.....its weird how getting rid of John leads to the movies falling apart. makes ya think.

I like the idea. Reminds me of the Terminator boardgame:
View attachment 993124

This could fit in nicely into the time loop framework of Terminator/T1, with T2 being the real final battle.

The Terminator: The Official Board Game

Description from the publisher: The Terminator: The Official Board Game is an asymmetrical strategy game played across two boards: one in 1984 and one in 2029. One player takes control of all the forces of the machines — Hunter Killer flying machines, Terminator endoskeletons, and new robots...

boardgamegeek.com

Like yeah a Survival horror game but set in the modern day. Where you have a team from the future trying to secure necessary resources for survival of humanity. You have a terminator trying to hunt them down and kill them....and you have cops and normies who are all like "WTF is wrong with you" who discover the horror of the terminators [which leads to those people becoming crucial figures in the resistance in the future]

do it on MAX 100mil budget

If ever they were to decide to reboot this franchise with The Rock as the new Terminator, this would be vital to it's success: low-budget and a hard R, not a wishy-washy "We'll make it R in post with CG blood and swear words."

It doesnt need to be the Rock but what successive Terminators have had is a problem NONE of them have "Smoldering Intensity."

None of them have the "I am a kill bot who is going to F you up"
And they try to make them talk to much.

Even Arnie in T3 talked to much. So if you cast the Rock your going to want him to talk and thats going to screw it up.

But some one who can carry an intense and terrifying physical presence while flipping the switch and being a normal [infiltrator]

Yeah, it was a blatant shoehorn in for it's own sake, not for the plot or the franchise. Hopefully if this movie tanks hard enough they'll get the message that their audience is not woke TDS-tards no matter how much they want them to be.

And they COULD have made it interesting: Have terminators rounding people up be like how illegal alien processing works. Have grace pop some PTSD and have Sarah help her through it. But that would have been making a clear opinion. Instead it chooses to IMPLY and INFER shit which is frankly more offensive

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

But whats the STORY of a future war movie?

Yeah, that's the big question. It could be a smaller story in the context of the greater conflict, or it could just follow the principal characters at a given phase: the attack on the Colorado complex, seizing the time displacement device, following Kyle before he's sent back & fleshing out his future flashbacks from T1, or ... hey, here's a thought:

What about a film with the same format as T1/T2: future war scenes interspersed with scenes from the past, but this time it's about John as an adult before the war starts. Maybe he is that politician with a family but he failed to stop Judgment Day, or maybe its the first timeline where his dad wasn't Reese but an MIC guy, and SkyNet is born for the first time. Either way, the movie's could now follow the birth of SkyNet and John Connor's role more closely, while giving us more Future War scenes as if they're nightmares, or perhaps "memories from a past timeline". Don't take that last part literally, it's more in a poetic sense.

So that idea I proposed a while ago--about a dark military industrial horror origin film for SkyNet--could be touched on or retooled for this movie.

Salvation ALMOST was on point [IMO] but it didn't really have a strong identity of what it wanted to be about. But its original plan was to replace John. So since T3 they've been trying to get rid of John.....its weird how getting rid of John leads to the movies falling apart. makes ya think.

Really gets the noggin going for a joggin.

Like yeah a Survival horror game but set in the modern day. Where you have a team from the future trying to secure necessary resources for survival of humanity. You have a terminator trying to hunt them down and kill them....and you have cops and normies who are all like "WTF is wrong with you" who discover the horror of the terminators [which leads to those people becoming crucial figures in the resistance in the future]

do it on MAX 100mil budget

This could easily be it's own original film inspired by Terminator, but without any of the baggage. Either that or a Terminator AU where John and/or SkyNet use time travel much earlier in the war, before a decisive victory for either side is reached. It'd basically be like implementing the gameplay and plot device of time travel machines in Command & Conquer: Red Alert.

Even Arnie in T3 talked to much. So if you cast the Rock your going to want him to talk and thats going to screw it up.

Oh no, I don't want him to talk. I just think The Rock is an ideal successor to Arnold in his heyday, and I would love to see him as the same kind of cyborn Arnie played in T1: huge, robotic, talks little if at all, and only a few well-placed gags here and there. Maybe an "I'll be back", but for the love of god don't put it in any trailers or teasers. NO. Let it be a surprise.

But some one who can carry an intense and terrifying physical presence while flipping the switch and being a normal [infiltrator]

That could work too. More of a Robert Patrick kind of actor. Somebody you wouldn't suspect is the killer until it's too late. That would be perfect for a horror thriller.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

What about a film with the same format as T1/T2: future war scenes interspersed with scenes from the past, but this time it's about John as an adult before the war starts. Maybe he is that politician with a family but he failed to stop Judgment Day, or maybe its the first timeline where his dad wasn't Reese but an MIC guy, and SkyNet is born for the first time. Either way, the movie's could now follow the birth of SkyNet and John Connor's role more closely, while giving us more Future War scenes as if they're nightmares, or perhaps "memories from a past timeline". Don't take that last part literally, it's more in a poetic sense.

So they talk about Timeloops a lot... so your talking about a PRIME timeline John.

And have the future war be more of a byproduct of the time war.

Could be interesting

Really gets the noggin going for a joggin.

John gets removed when the concept of the Hero is considered Trash by major movie Narratives. And Female and POC replacement characters act more like bullies that the movies say "Its ok when we act like bullies because we are having oppressed people bully weak people that are casually like their oppressors."

really gets those minerals tumbling

This could easily be it's own original film inspired by Terminator, but without any of the baggage. Either that or a Terminator AU where John and/or SkyNet use time travel much earlier in the war, before a decisive victory for either side is reached. It'd basically be like implementing the gameplay and plot device of time travel machines in Command & Conquer: Red Alert.

And a War through time is a kickass theme

Oh no, I don't want him to talk. I just think The Rock is an ideal successor to Arnold in his heyday, and I would love to see him as the same kind of cyborn Arnie played in T1: huge, robotic, talks little if at all, and only a few well-placed gags here and there. Maybe an "I'll be back", but for the love of god don't put it in any trailers or teasers. NO. Let it be a surprise.

Grace's catch phrase was dumb

That could work too. More of a Robert Patrick kind of actor. Somebody you wouldn't suspect is the killer until it's too late. That would be perfect for a horror thriller.

their are Big guys [4u] who can pull it off as well. But if its a big guy it needs to be like a Future Rock or Arnold

 

[Kaiser Wilhelm's Ghost]

I've not really been in interested in seeing this considering what a shit show the franchise has become. Is it worth it, or something I can easily give a miss?

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

You can easily give it a miss. You're not missing much. This is T2 except the movie starts by spitting in your face.

You're better off just watching MauLer's Unbridled Rage whenever it comes out.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

You can easily give it a miss. You're not missing much. This is T2 except the movie starts by spitting in your face.

You're better off just watching MauLer's Unbridled Rage whenever it comes out.

And also in 5-7 years this will be rebooted again

 

[The Great Chandler]

The only Hollywood reboot franchise I know of that hasn't fallen into sellout territory is the Monsterverse one. The most politics they shoved in those movies is climate change and human destruction, but that's always been a theme in the older movies. Plus, the directors were competent and even one of them was a Big G fanboy. Can't the same for this one.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

Tim Miller admits that his two leads were Grace and Sarah Connor, not Dani Ramos; Grace is also referred to as "Dani's daughter":

Not to bring up the MacGuffin debate again, but this really does get the old neurons firing. So Dani IS the hero of the future, but not only is she not the lead, they're already talking about her successor. Even referring to Grace as her "daughter":



"SHE CAN BE A STRONG INDEPENDENT HERO AND A MOTHER WITHOUT A MAN, SHITLORD"

Also she looks too female so make way for the androgynous android fighter and old Hillary clone

While I was looking for that photo I found more tarded opinionated articles. I'll start with one and save the other for later:

https://archive.is/RnabI

These elaborate relationships are a lion's roar away from, for example, the all-women A-Force moment in Avengers: Endgame which was justly criticised for being ham-fisted and tokenistic. It was a quick scene which brought together the women superheroes: a morsel meant to sate women's appetite for representation.

Some might want to tar Terminator: Dark Fate with the same brush, to say that putting three women in the lead roles was simply pandering to the woke. But this assessment is both lazy and wrong. Because Terminator: Dark Fate actually puts its money where its mouth is. It's a three-course meal and it tastes delicious.

I'll bet it does.

Do they argue? Yes! Of course, they argue. But they argue not because women just don't get along or because they are jealous and competitive, but because they have different goals and methods. They argue the way we argue with our sisters, our mothers, or our friends. Like women.

The strong independent female doth protest too much.

All of this means that despite the sci-fi world they inhabit the characters are each relatable and distinct from each other. They aren't just a blur of 'strong women' brought in for a wink at women watching the film. They are, most importantly, well-thought-out characters.

Mmmmmm no they're not. Sarah's regressed like Leia, Grace is just Kyle Reese 2.0, and Dani is John Connor 2.0. There's barely any thought in this, just petty politics and an insidious, spiteful agenda.

A cynic might say this is all undone by the fact that it was written and directed by men. And, as we've written before, movies starring women are the perfect opportunity to champion women filmmakers. We can hope that a sequel sees more women behind the camera while also recognising that Miller and Goyer did right by the women they cast.

Of course she complains about the directors being men. Also tell that last sentence to this feminist writer.

In this way, being women is somehow inexplicably incidental and also imperative to who the characters are and how they approach the situation.

Yeah, incidentally they're female. The writers just happened to make them female, just like 2 out of 3 of them happened to replace prior beloved male leads. Pure coincidence.

"Any of those characters could have been played by men as well," Linda Hamilton told Digital Spy. "You just look at them all as characters."

And they would've been just as shit, but you wouldn't have gotten the positive woke press you were going for, at the expense of your core audience.

Reading this just hammers home the fact that Terminator: Dark Fate is easily the MOST sexist and anti-feminine, anti-male film in the Terminator franchise. They want their women to be like men and assume male roles because they have a sexist inferiority complex, and in the process, they also want to kill, replace, or depower male leads as they use them to prop up the female leads and the film in general. Women are the new men, and men are more disposable than before. Fuck off, trash.

 

[Meat Poultry Veg]

"Representation" = GIVE ME NARCISSISTIC SUPPLY, SHITLORD

 

[RumblyTumbly]

The only Hollywood reboot franchise I know of that hasn't fallen into sellout territory is the Monsterverse one. The most politics they shoved in those movies is climate change and human destruction, but that's always been a theme in the older movies. Plus, the directors were competent and even one of them was a Big G fanboy. Can't the same for this one.

The recent Planet of the Apes movies were pretty good too.

Oh, and Creed 1 and 2 were great continuations of the Rocky series.

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

Last Blood wasn't a very good Rambo movie, but it still delivered. I'd watch it again.

I should probably check out Creed too. The trailers didn't really make we wanna see it; I was satisfied with Rocky 6.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

Tim Miller admits that his two leads were Grace and Sarah Connor, not Dani Ramos; Grace is also referred to as "Dani's daughter":

And Dani ends up as Sarah's daughter at the end.....Tim were you paying attention when you wrote your movie? Dani also saved Grace making Grace Dani's foster mother....

Look you wanted to do Maiden/Mother/Crone

Spoiler

THE MAIDEN
The Maiden aspect aligns with the crescent-to-waxing phase of the Moon, and represents the youthful phase of a woman’s life. This is the time of growth, reflected by the waxing of the Moon as it moves toward fullness. In the cycles of Nature, the Maiden is associated with dawn, sunrise, and the Spring season.

The Maiden represents beauty, fresh potential and new life. In human beings, she is associated with the qualities of innocence, youth, self-confidence, intelligence and independence, and with activities relating to exploration, discovery, self-expression, and creativity. Wiccans may worship the Maiden in the form of the Greek goddesses Persephone and Artemis, the Celtic Rhiannon, and/or the Nordic Freya, among others.

THE MOTHER
At the Full Moon, the Maiden becomes the Mother, giving birth to all of the abundance on Earth. She is associated with midday, and her season is Summer, the most lush time of year, with forests and fields flourishing and young animals growing into maturity. In the human realm, she is associated with nurturing, responsibility, adulthood and the fullness of life.

As the giver of life, she is the aspect most associated with manifestation. In fact, the Mother is considered by many Wiccans to be the most powerful of the Goddess’ three aspects, and it was a “Mother Goddess” archetype that inspired Gerald Gardner’s vision of the divine feminine. Goddesses who represent the Mother at many Wiccan altars include the Greek Demeter and Selene, the Roman Ceres, and the Celtic Danu and Badb.

THE CRONE
As the Moon wanes and the darkness of the night sky grows, the Crone steps into her power. Called the “Hag” in earlier iterations of the Triple Goddess, she represents the post-childbearing years of life, and is associated with Autumn and Winter, sunset and night, and the winding down and ending of the growing season. The Crone is the wise elder aspect of the Goddess, and governs aging and endings, death and rebirth, and past lives, as well as transformations, visions, prophecy, and guidance.

Although feared as an archetype for millennia, she is the one who reminds us that death is part of the life cycle, just as the Moon's dark phase precedes the New Moon. The Crone is often represented by goddesses associated with death and the underworld, such as the Greek Hecate, the Russian Baba Yaga, and the Celtic Morrigan and Cailleach Bear.

You had future Dani as Maiden who became mother, and Grace is the maiden who becomes mother by sacrificing herself for Dani.

But you butchered that

Not to bring up the MacGuffin debate again, but this really does get the old neurons firing. So Dani IS the hero of the future, but not only is she not the lead, they're already talking about her successor. Even referring to Grace as her "daughter":



"SHE CAN BE A STRONG INDEPENDENT HERO AND A MOTHER WITHOUT A MAN, SHITLORD"

Mother in this context is "live giver" but Tim instead of using the classic archtype effectively he screws up the landing and doesnt even know how to explain it appropriately in interviews

Mmmmmm no they're not. Sarah's regressed like Leia, Grace is just Kyle Reese 2.0, and Dani is John Connor 2.0. There's barely any thought in this, just petty politics and an insidious, spiteful agenda.

Woke Capital is all about the superficial illusion.

it wont save them when the huns come

Reading this just hammers home the fact that Terminator: Dark Fate is easily the MOST sexist and anti-feminine, anti-male film in the Terminator franchise. They want their women to be like men and assume male roles because they have a sexist inferiority complex, and in the process, they also want to kill, replace, or depower male leads as they use them to prop up the female leads and the film in general. Women are the new men, and men are more disposable than before. Fuck off, trash.

Its anti-life

 

[Poe-Shen Zcela]

So the second article I had was actually a 4-minute Collider interview hosted by bearded egg and Twitterbound shill Steven "Frosty" Weintraub:

Mackenzie Davis & Natalia Reyes Talk ‘Terminator: Dark Fate’ and Crafting the Action Scenes

Mackenzie Davis and Natalia Reyes reveal the challenges of crafting Terminator: Dark Fate's massive action scenes with director Tim Miller.

collider.com

Nice to see Mankenzie still in character during interviews.

What is it with Geek Culture soyboys and going bald? Is it a California/LA thing? Is it the soy?

There were a couple interesting comments, but the only one that comes back to me is Mackenzie mentioning that Tim had done the previz mocap for her stunts a year in advance of actual shooting. Good preparation on his part I suppose, but then it begs the question of why there needed to be reshoots, and what were they for.

Last but not least, Midnight's Edge put out a great retrospective on the Terminator franchise. They even included the infamous Bale audio from Salvation, the absolute madlads:

I didn't know that Cameron wrote First Blood Part 2, but that does sound like something in his wheelhouse. I also found it interesting that the reason Halcyon decided not to go with the dark ending for Salvation was because of a leaked script and the online backlash that ensued.

 

[The Great Chandler]

The recent Planet of the Apes movies were pretty good too.

Oh, and Creed 1 and 2 were great continuations of the Rocky series.

Oh yeah! The Golden Gate scene with the gorillas was a blast!

 

[los pepes]

I can't believe granny and the tranny flopped

 

[Jub-Jub]

Looking like it won't meet it's $30-40m US opening weekend target. They're now predicting $28m

How ‘Terminator: Dark Fate’ Conked Out With $29M & Why ‘The Irishman’ Is A Strategic Opportunity – Sunday Box Office

4th Update/Writethru, Sunday AM after Saturday AM post: It’s not a good weekend for franchises, specifically old dusty ones like the sixth Terminator movie, Terminator: Dark Fate, which is se…

deadline.com

 

[AmpleApricots]

I would've liked to see an actual future war (so not whatever 4 was) Terminator movie. You could've made the run for skynets time displacement machine the plot. You could've introduced new characters that were important for this without them not being mentioned in the original films necessarily be a plothole. You wouldn't have needed to fuck with the original movies at all, it all could've ended with Kyle going back. The whole scenario is nightmareish, it could've made an excellent thriller. No "modernizing", no subverting expectations by making Kyle a proud transwoman of color, no stupid preaching of pet political causes nobody cares about, no convoluted and stupid, unsatisfying plot to lay ground for 99 sequels - just a good, solid action/thriller movie with excellent current-day effects, adult rating and memorable (and new!!) characters. It would have made them money, guaranteed.

I don't even think hollywood is capable of this anymore because of current day attitudes and politics and excessive own-fart-huffing. I don't even think it can produce a movie like T3 at this point. The franchise might as well die here.