Megathread Insane Parents of "Transgender" Kids - Parents who push a transgender identity on their children

[Mako_Spark]

Most women want a career for money to do fun shit. It's weird that you're saying that like it's not a valid reason for a woman to want to join the workforce

I think they're saying "once you have children, surely your maternal instinct should override your desire to have money to do fun shit," which is a common view in my social circles, too - lucky for me I had a mother who didn't let having three kids stop her from doing fun shit at all, so I've never had that attitude. I just take my kid with me on my adventures around the world, and he loves it and he's an absolute pro when it comes to travel... so far I think he's up to 26 or 27 international trips (all but one long-haul), five continents and 14 countries (most trips are to my home country, to see his extended family - travel time averaging 20-24 hours).

Kids are adaptable as hell. I know my son is "easy" as far as personalities go, but I half wonder if that's because we've always had clear expectations for his behavior that we make sure he understands (why as well as what) and we're also pretty easy - there's no freakout if we miss a connecting flight or a bag goes missing, it will always be worked out, and if it can't be, well what's the point in throwing a hissy fit? 90% of the 'difficult' or 'challenging' kids I know have either difficult/challenging parents or super-permissive parents who don't enforce even basic standards of behavior/politeness in their kids... but I must acknowledge the other 10% of wonderful parents who do get a challenging kid just by chance, I've seen some friends age very quickly with an oppositional/defiant child... but yes, this notion that parenthood is the end of all fun, adventure, travel, romance, anything but total servitude to your children is insane to me, but seems like the prevailing view in the US... 'have your kids as late as you can, live your life first!' is the mantra where I live... it's sad, honestly. (And yes, a lot of other moms hate me before they get to know me, because I'm obviously still having fun... I try to encourage them to give it a try, and wonder of wonders, it almost always turns out that they can travel just fine with their kids, and even go to restaurants with them that don't have giant mice and an arcade to keep the kids busy!)

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

I think they're saying "once you have children, surely your maternal instinct should override your desire to have money to do fun shit," which is a common view in my social circles, too - lucky for me I had a mother who didn't let having three kids stop her from doing fun shit at all, so I've never had that attitude. I just take my kid with me on my adventures around the world, and he loves it and he's an absolute pro when it comes to travel... so far I think he's up to 26 or 27 international trips (all but one long-haul), five continents and 14 countries (most trips are to my home country, to see his extended family - travel time averaging 20-24 hours).

Kids are adaptable as hell. I know my son is "easy" as far as personalities go, but I half wonder if that's because we've always had clear expectations for his behavior that we make sure he understands (why as well as what) and we're also pretty easy - there's no freakout if we miss a connecting flight or a bag goes missing, it will always be worked out, and if it can't be, well what's the point in throwing a hissy fit? 90% of the 'difficult' or 'challenging' kids I know have either difficult/challenging parents or super-permissive parents who don't enforce even basic standards of behavior/politeness in their kids... but I must acknowledge the other 10% of wonderful parents who do get a challenging kid just by chance, I've seen some friends age very quickly with an oppositional/defiant child... but yes, this notion that parenthood is the end of all fun, adventure, travel, romance, anything but total servitude to your children is insane to me, but seems like the prevailing view in the US... 'have your kids as late as you can, live your life first!' is the mantra where I live... it's sad, honestly. (And yes, a lot of other moms hate me before they get to know me, because I'm obviously still having fun... I try to encourage them to give it a try, and wonder of wonders, it almost always turns out that they can travel just fine with their kids, and even go to restaurants with them that don't have giant mice and an arcade to keep the kids busy!)

I think this is partly (and I really mean only partly) do if you and your social circles have enough money. Money will not make you happy but it does give more options. Need a brake or just have really buzy day? You might have friends or family willing to babysit but nothing gives more room than paid help. Traveling and many other forms fun are highly limited with finances. Kids need to be entertained and having opinions that cost money gives you more arsenal especially beyond toddler years. Also actually moving around does take money or your area of operations is pretty limited plus cheeper forms of transportation likely take way longer time. Also penny pinching if you do it out pure need is often very stressful. There is absolutely no doubt that you can do good job as a parent no matter the budget but money also matters. It’s easier to be a fun parent if you aren’t preoccupied with getting together bare necessities of comfortable life.

 

[MetalParakeet]

I think this is partly (and I really mean only partly) do if you and your social circles have enough money. Money will not make you happy but it does give more options. Need a brake or just have really buzy day? You might have friends or family willing to babysit but nothing gives more room than paid help. Traveling and many other forms fun are highly limited with finances. Kids need to be entertained and having opinions that cost money gives you more arsenal especially beyond toddler years. Also actually moving around does take money or your area of operations is pretty limited plus cheeper forms of transportation likely take way longer time. Also penny pinching if you do it out pure need is often very stressful. There is absolutely no doubt that you can do good job as a parent no matter the budget but money also matters. It’s easier to be a fun parent if you aren’t preoccupied with getting together bare necessities of comfortable life.

Yeah, I gotta agree with Amber at least in part.

It's easy to say "having kids isn't the end to fun" but bragging about all your international trips doesn't exactly prove your point and show you are in the typical situation.

Most people without kids can't afford to go on regular flights across the world, mate.

Before touting how easy a jetsetting parental life is, remember that you're in the minority there

 

[Pitere pit]

Sure money give you a lot more of options of fun to families, but at the end it depends on how you spend that time. I saw a lot of families fighting during holiday's trips, in expensive restaurants and even theme parks. No matter how you spend it if you have a shitty attitude around your family it will be a bad time. Kiddies are happy even on Mcdonalds as only their parents are glad with them and not fighting in front of them.
And following the discussion on working moms or SAHM, I will say that it depends on the mother. Some mothers thrive working out of home and the other part like to stay to care their kiddies. My ma was a working one until I was born, big sis was with my grandma and kindergartens until she was 5, she turned out kinda fine. Since I was in this bizarre world, I saw ma working at home, not only doing traditional ma things, but pa ones. She is our handyman, one of her hobbies is fixing shit around the house like painting the walls, changing water heaters, fixing the floors or toilet... etc. She told me that if I chose to be a SAHM she will pass her knowledge on fixing shit, and if I don't she will teach me anyway because home improvement has no sex, as she says. If a man can know how to cook, then a woman can know ho to fix the water heater.
In other news, I realize that most of this trans parents don't truly love their kiddies, they are just pawns to show them how much cool and woke they are, if their children came out as normal they would sadly reject them. Imagine Desmond is Amazing coming out as a straight cis man who only likes to dress up sometimes, his parents would throw him under the bus. That's the point with these ''parents'', they only see their kids as validation figures and to feel better about themselves.
This reminds me of stage parents, but this time, it is haram to say how they truly are, they are monsters. At least stage parents don't put their kiddies on dangerous hormones that will harm their spawn with a myriad of health problems.
I am getting old, and if this is the new norm, I want to get out of this world. Pa and Ma should protect their child against danger, not harming them.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

Less insane normal parents and more insane trans parents stuff, please!

 

[Mako_Spark]

Sorry, agreed.

 

[Knojkamarangasan_#4]

Less insane normal parents and more insane trans parents stuff, please!

Sorry, agreed.

While I do agree that Mako's stuff is very interesting to read. Your wall of texts are kinda too long, makes it hard to focus in this thread. Honestly with your writing abilities, try compiling and writing something like this down. Maybe a video essay or something/medium, I dont know but you've certainly got a lot of interesting stuff.

But yeah if anything, seeing the consequences of this shit in the future is absolutely horrifying. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Look at lobotomy and how it is viewed today and the survivors, the result ain't pretty at all. The 41% exist for a reason.

 

[Mako_Spark]

While I do agree that Mako's stuff is very interesting to read. Your wall of texts are kinda too long, makes it hard to focus in this thread. Honestly with your writing abilities, try compiling and writing something like this down. Maybe a video essay or something/medium, I dont know but you've certainly got a lot of interesting stuff.

But yeah if anything, seeing the consequences of this shit in the future is absolutely horrifying. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Look at lobotomy and how it is viewed today and the survivors, the result ain't pretty at all. The 41% exist for a reason.

I agree it's the modern lobotomy - people will look back with horror. And thanks for being so kind about my sperging! I've had an... unusual life path, and it's put me in the way of many completely insane parents of all varieties (hell, I may well be one of them!) which means I have so many crazy stories I can easily keep on going when one reminds me of another and then another, and before I know it I'm deep into tangent-land and completely off-topic... sorry!

So back to topic: has anyone ever met non-insane parents of transgender kids? (Kids, not teens: the tumblr demographic seems quite capable of going full trans-by-reason-of-insanity all on their own.)

The first very young trans kid I ever met IRL has (I believe) sane parents... and she's still the only one I've ever met who I believe has sane parents. Hell, I'm still calling her she, because after getting to know her, it's almost impossible for me to think of her as biologically male even though I know she is.

Spoiler: I GET IT, I NEED ANOTHER HOBBY

I first met her (let's call her Riley - she was lucky to have a similarly unisex name) about 15 years ago when she would have been about 5 or 6 (so she's older than Jazz and was 'trans' first, she just has non-fame-whore parents) but I'd heard all about her long before, because I was related to her through my in-laws and her grandmother (who I saw often) was constantly beside herself with worry about Riley's future... if 'insistent, persistent, consistent' is the test, then wow did Riley ace it - as soon as she could talk she was telling everyone she wanted to be a girl (or she just was a girl.) My husband remembers her opening Christmas presents at age two, and when she unwrapped one just enough to see that it was a toy cement truck, she didn't even bother to finish unwrapping it - she just pushed it away and went back to playing with her cousin's Barbie dolls.

The parents are the opposite of woke, they're steady, normal, polite small-town folk (not religious, but definitely Republicans at least pre-trans kid, big on family values, live in a small town in a red state... frankly, I doubt they knew 'trans kids' existed until they had one) and if there's been any coaching (it would have to be from mom, dad is away most of the time as a long-haul trucker) then she's an evil mastermind, because she's always just seemed utterly bewildered by this 'daughter' who by all accounts was genuinely just 'born this way'.

Both parents have always been loving and supportive of Riley, but 'encouraging' not so much - when I first met mom, she was still very hopeful this was all just a phase, and I honestly can't imagine her listing many positives to having a trans kid, even though Riley has always been a very sweet, thoughtful child and has grown into a lovely young (trans) woman. They are the polar opposite of the usual insane 'trans kid activist' parents, they were constantly stressed when Riley was younger about how to keep it as secret as possible (they're still in a 'no queers allowed' part of 'Mericuh and basically had to pick up and move to a new town at one point when the 'secret' got out and both the kids were mercilessly bullied in school, and the whole family was shunned and shut out by basically all of their friends - even the ones who had known for ages and were okay with it privately didn't dare support them publicly for fear of becoming persona non grata themselves).

The other huge stressor was how they were going to afford her transition (if she didn't change her mind, which they so dearly hoped she would... ) They were already paycheck-to-paycheck before the trans thing entered the picture, and last I heard they'd had to take out a second mortgage on their house to pay for her 'gender care' (I'm not in the loop enough atm to know how much that has involved, I know she went on blockers and then cross-sex hormones, but her parents always wanted to go as slow as they possibly could with the medical stuff and if she's had SRS, they've kept that private - again, they truly seem non-insane.)

And... I don't know what to think of it. I guess she's my "one true trans kid" story - I just can't see that the parents have gained anything from Riley 'being trans' that's a positive for them - it's been nothing but stress, fear for her life and her future, worries about money, worries about her safety and privacy, worries that one day she might still change her mind and just want to be a regular gay man like all the studies promised she almost certainly would and they'll be left with the guilt of making the wrong call with the hormones/whatever else, plus worries that their other child (a few years older, a boy) feels comparatively neglected or less loved because Riley's needs have demanded so much of their attention, not to mention their money - neither kid got any help with college and I think the parents will probably need the kids to help them financially as they get older, because Riley's 'gender-affirming care' wasn't covered at all by their insurance, it's all been out of pocket... and they've wanted no outside attention while trying to deal with this very unexpected twist of fate, no asspat-seeking, no social media, they'd run a mile from a Pride parade...

I think she's the real thing - not real as in actually 'a girl in a boy's body' or whatever because that's not how reality/biology works, but a child with such early-onset and persistent gender dysphoria that social and then medical transition (to whatever degree) was probably the right decision for her. I can't fault any of her parents' decision-making - faced with that particular child, I'd probably do exactly what they've done, and I (obviously) have a million issues with the whole idea of 'trans kids' - so it's always been a thought-provoking case for me.

And I've written another essay - I'm sorry! Anyone else know a trans kid with seemingly non-insane parents? If you do, has it changed your thinking about trans kids in general at all?

 

[Pomme Poire Peche]

another essay

Sounds just like a boy who plays with dolls. I feel bad for the parents who have spent their future on this. But not that bad, innit.

 

[MetalParakeet]

@Mako_Spark Your posts remind me of when you're just trying to find a recipe to a grilled cheese sandwich, but have to read a 1500 word essay on when, where, how and why they discovered their grilled cheese recipe.

No one cares that it was a pleasant morning in June in southern Arkansas, they just want to read about the fucking sandwich

 

[Pineapple Fox]

Ma’am could you not.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

And... I don't know what to think of it. I guess she's my "one true trans kid" story - I just can't see that the parents have gained anything from Riley 'being trans' that's a positive for them - it's been nothing but stress, fear for her life and her future, worries about money, worries about her safety and privacy, worries that one day she might still change her mind and just want to be a regular gay man like all the studies promised she almost certainly would and they'll be left with the guilt of making the wrong call with the hormones/whatever else, plus worries that their other child (a few years older, a boy) feels comparatively neglected or less loved because Riley's needs have demanded so much of their attention, not to mention their money - neither kid got any help with college and I think the parents will probably need the kids to help them financially as they get older, because Riley's 'gender-affirming care' wasn't covered at all by their insurance, it's all been out of pocket... and they've wanted no outside attention while trying to deal with this very unexpected twist of fate, no asspat-seeking, no social media, they'd run a mile from a Pride parade...

So they're not attention whores, they're just shitty parents who are killing their kid with kindness. If they're indulging this behavior and refusing to put their feet down w/r/t observable physical reality, then they're doing it wrong. If they've been getting their kid "gender-affirming care," his life is utterly fucked at this point and they bear primary responsibility.

With regards to non-insane parents of transgender kids: barring very unusual physical deformities (odd chromosomal arrangements etc. where you have to make a choice) that's like asking about "non-insane breatharians." It's not only nonexistent, it's definitionally impossible.

 

[Mako_Spark]

So they're not attention whores, they're just shitty parents who are killing their kid with kindness. If they're indulging this behavior and refusing to put their feet down w/r/t observable physical reality, then they're doing it wrong. If they've been getting their kid "gender-affirming care," his life is utterly fucked at this point and they bear primary responsibility.

With regards to non-insane parents of transgender kids: barring very unusual physical deformities (odd chromosomal arrangements etc. where you have to make a choice) that's like asking about "non-insane breatharians." It's not only nonexistent, it's definitionally impossible.

I'd agree with you irt every other case I know, and like I said, I have a million problems with the whole concept of 'trans kids' and 99% of the parents of 'trans kids' I know, that's why I'm here - but I just can't see it in this family. I do think they got suckered into believing 'your kid will 4!% themselves if you don't go along with this,' but they still went as slow as they possibly could with most things and were clearly hoping it would turn out be just a phase, and encouraged her to notice the 'exit' signs at every possible opportunity - but as the mom put it to me when she was about 16/17, "I guess when your child has been this way their entire life, it's probably time to start accepting that this may not just be a phase."

'Riley' was also unusually intelligent and thoughtful from a very early age, and certainly not laboring under any delusions... yes when she first started talking she just wanted to proclaim to everyone that she was/wanted to be a girl, but by the time I met her at 5 or 6 her parents had set her straight - she knew she was not 'really' a girl, she knew it was not possible for her to become a 'real' girl (or to get pregnant and become a mommy that way, etc. etc.), and she would tell you with a very 'old soul' attitude, "I know life's not going to be easy for me... I'm not the same as most people, and I can't ever have what I want the most" - such deep thoughts and general world-weariness were all very jarring coming from someone so young! I've sometimes wondered if there's a high-functioning autism element with her (especially since such a large proportion of 'trans kids' these days are also on the spectrum) and her obsession with girly things was part of that, but I'm not an autism expert so it's just a thought...

As for gender-affirming care - I agree with you, it's 99% evil and life-destroying, but in this case the parents held out as long as they could hoping she'd grow out of it, and 'Riley' saw a million therapists who were chosen specifically because they were not gender-affirming, their goal was to make her comfortable with herself, which included being male - the gender-affirming care only came into it when expert after expert told the parents "this kid has such intense (and lifelong) gender dysphoria, I strongly feel they're in the very small category of people who we know do seem to be happier and have better outcomes after physical transition."

They're not shitty or indulgent, I'd imagine most 'woke' people would consider them evil transphobes... they made sure she understood reality very young (even though it clearly hurt to hear - compare that to Jazz and the "vagina fairy," for example ), and when I say she's my 'one true trans kid' what I mean is she's the only case I can think of where I wasn't screaming "wtf are you thinking?" when the parents eventually decided to start down the road of medical 'transition': she'd had extreme gender dysphoria her whole life that showed no signs of going away, she had realistic expectations of what physical 'transition' could (and couldn't) do for her, and apparently she's very happy and doing well in life these days as a productive member of society - she's the outlier in my 'trans kid' data, no question, but you can't ignore outliers just because they ruin your otherwise perfect model.

(Does this outlier annoy me? Of course it does, I'm here to laugh/be horrified by insane parents of 'transgender' kids, and I like my statistics neat... 'Riley' makes me think too much.)

 

[Positron]

The other huge stressor was how they were going to afford her transition (if she didn't change her mind, which they so dearly hoped she would... ) They were already paycheck-to-paycheck before the trans thing entered the picture, and last I heard they'd had to take out a second mortgage on their house to pay for her 'gender care' (I'm not in the loop enough atm to know how much that has involved, I know she went on blockers and then cross-sex hormones, but her parents always wanted to go as slow as they possibly could with the medical stuff and if she's had SRS, they've kept that private - again, they truly seem non-insane.)

Even granting that Riley is genuinely and persistently gender-confused and his parents really wish the best for him, they still aren't obliged to finance his sex change (or other "gender affirmative" mumbo jumbo) especially when doing so is way beyond their means. Consider other expensive but legitimate needs that parents may feel responsible for their children -- college fees. cars for work, even, for poorer folks, internet access -- parent may feel guilty, but in the end they have to say, sorry darling, this is something you have to sort out yourself.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

she had realistic expectations of what physical 'transition' could (and couldn't) do for her

I call bullshit.

A 5 year old boy :

can't understand what it means getting castrated, having no sexual feelings & not being able to orgasm.

can't understand what it means having a man made numb hole between his legs.

can't understand the consequences of not going through puberty. Side effects of cross sex hormones aren't puberty.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

[...]I just can't see it in this family.

This sounds like a failure of imagination on your part. That they are, by your account, driving themselves into penury to indulge the insane, impossible desires of a child (which, again by your account, the child knows is impossible, which should have settled the matter right there) should be about six red flags that something is badly wrong, even if it's not the usual thing that's badly wrong in this scenario.

They're not shitty or indulgent, I'd imagine most 'woke' people would consider them evil transphobes...

Their horrific parenting manifesting in an unusual way does not make it not horrific. Once you sign off on your prepubescent kid being given cross-sex hormones and nuclear-option cancer drugs normally reserved for chemically castrating sex offenders for the specific purpose of fucking up their growth so their secondary sexual characteristics don't develop properly, you have crossed the shitty parent event horizon and are never, ever coming back. We're talking time dilation, spaghettified atomic structure, and burning to death in a flashlight beam levels of past the event horizon. It's like... well, any other form of child sexual abuse, really: once you cross that line, no amount of good stuff makes up for it.

Edit: Missed this one on the first pass:

'Riley' was also unusually intelligent and thoughtful from a very early age, and certainly not laboring under any delusions.

You mean aside from the one where he thought he was a girl? Seems important.

 

[Mako_Spark]

Even granting that Riley is genuinely and persistently gender-confused and his parents really wish the best for him, they still aren't obliged to finance his sex change (or other "gender affirmative" mumbo jumbo) especially when doing so is way beyond their means. Consider other expensive but legitimate needs that parents may feel responsible for their children -- college fees. cars for work, even, for poorer folks, internet access -- parent may feel guilty, but in the end they have to say, sorry darling, this is something you have to sort out yourself.

I agree, but I think they really believe the 41% lie... would you refinance the house if it might save your kid dying from potentially terminal cancer? I think I would. That's the mentality that's driven those decisions... too bad "the 41%" is utter BS.

I call bullshit.

A 5 year old boy :

can't understand what it means getting castrated, having no sexual feelings & not being able to orgasm.

can't understand what it means having a man made numb hole between his legs.

can't understand the consequences of not going through puberty. Side effects of cross sex hormones aren't puberty.

You're correct, of course. It wouldn't be appropriate for a five-year-old to know those things. What I was trying to communicate is that her parents are the opposite of, say, Jazz's parents... she got as much reality as she could handle as soon as she could handle it, and she was never told she could become a 'real' girl or a mom or a vagina fairy would come and magically fix everything... she was an unusually serious (and sad) little kid, probably because her parents didn't lie to her... but it seems to have worked out for the best that she never had unrealistic expectations.

Edit: Missed this one on the first pass:

You mean aside from the one where he thought he was a girl? Seems important.

I think I explained that by 5 or 6 she knew she was not a girl, could not become a girl, and if she continued to want to live like a girl, she'd still always be different and could expect a much more difficult life than a real girl (or a regular boy.) So in that sense... quite startlingly self-aware for that age, and I would say not deluded.

As for why do the physical transitioning if she knew it wasn't going to make her a real woman? I think I've explained that also... even the most trans-sceptical experts they consulted recognized she had extreme (and extremely persistent) gender dysphoria, and that small group of people is the only one that the evidence suggests significantly benefit from transition... okay, she's still not a 'real girl,' but I can believe going through male puberty would have been genuinely horrifying/traumatic for her and she was spared that. (Please don't even bother commenting "she was 'spared' normal healthy development," obviously I know that's the usual way to look at things... it's how I'd normally look at things, too, but this case is my outlier and it's challenged my thinking, which is why I shared it. I'll go back to ridiculous and insane kids and parents now, I promise!

Anyway, she's my one-and-only trans kid IRL who I think had wholly innocent parents (to begin with, at least) who just tried to make the best decisions they could when their child came out not at all like they would have ever imagined... sounds like no one else has encountered such a creature in the wild, so let's get back to the insane parents. They're less complicated and more fun... if by fun you mean horrifying, but this is Kiwi Farms, so... not far off!

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

I think I explained that by 5 or 6 she knew she was not a girl, could not become a girl, and if she continued to want to live like a girl, she'd still always be different and could expect a much more difficult life than a real girl (or a regular boy.) So in that sense... quite startlingly self-aware for that age, and I would say not deluded.

As for why do the physical transitioning if she knew it wasn't going to make her a real woman? I think I've explained that also... even the most trans-sceptical experts they consulted recognized she had extreme (and extremely persistent) gender dysphoria, and that small group of people is the only one that the evidence suggests significantly benefit from transition... okay, she's still not a 'real girl,' but I can believe going through male puberty would have been genuinely horrifying/traumatic for her and she was spared that. (Please don't even bother commenting "she was 'spared' normal healthy development," obviously I know that's the usual way to look at things... it's how I'd normally look at things, too, but this case is my outlier and it's challenged my thinking, which is why I shared it. I'll go back to ridiculous and insane kids and parents now, I promise!

Anyway, she's my one-and-only trans kid IRL who I think had wholly innocent parents (to begin with, at least) who just tried to make the best decisions they could when their child came out not at all like they would have ever imagined... sounds like no one else has encountered such a creature in the wild, so let's get back to the insane parents. They're less complicated and more fun... if by fun you mean horrifying, but this is Kiwi Farms, so... not far off!

APOLOGIZE FOR TRIPLE-POSTING, YOU SCUM

 

[Mako_Spark]

APOLOGIZE FOR TRIPLE-POSTING, YOU SCUM

I kneel at your feet in penitence, Senior Lexmechanic.

I'll try to condense them into one... whoa, who did it for me? Thank you! You are a saint among men!

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

I kneel at your feet in penitence, Senior Lexmechanic.

I'll try to condense them into one... whoa, who did it for me? Thank you! You are a saint among men!

...You are very new here, aren't you?