Culture Tranny News Megathread - Hot tranny newds
- Thread starter trannyfucker
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2016
What society has ever said that those equipped with penises at birth were something other than male? (Until our own, I guess.) I'm actually curious now.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2019
I'm guessing some Indian and native American tribes but even then it's probably being misinterpreted. More important still is the quote: "However, Murphy never acknowledges that the very concept of “male” and “female” are western constructs, ignoring that other cultures have historically had different conceptions of gender. "
Male and female refer explicitely to sex but she swooshes away to talking about the way other cultures see "gender". Are they mutually exclusive or are they interchangeable whenever it's convenient? Even then, those non-western societies might see "gender" differently but probably agree you need a penis and a vagina to create new life. That's not Western thought, that's just life.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2019
It's pretty hard to apply modern concepts of gender to 2000 year old societies. There were definitely distinctions, but usually gender non conforming men turned into essentially ladyboy prostitutes... wait...
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2017
In some cultures, if you took it up the butt you did not count as a real man. It was very progressive of them
queue-anon
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2019
There are a few black AGP trannies who are, of course, as creepy as their white brethren, but I'm taking a wild guess here that they don't have a significant connection to the black community. Black people already see trans as white bullshit, and they're not shy about expressing concern over their girls being exposed to dick in women's spaces. The black community shut down HERO in Houston for example, and their stated reason was to keep creepy white men away from black girls. I can only imagine how hard the black community would come down on a black fetishistic crossdresser who's stupid enough to get his freak on in their neighborhoods.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Trans "women" (men) fetishize White and Asian girls. I applaud the Black community for shutting down HERO, but their concerns over creepy White men coming for Black girls is largely unfounded. However, gay men, particularly American gay men, do appropriate language/slang from Black women...but then Black people, especially Black women, copy a lot of things from White people. So it's 'swings and 'roundabouts,' I guess?
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2018
William Lau strikes me as MtF, but the "White womens' tears" angle is pure AGP perversion
Edit: I meant to write FtM above, but tranny bullshit addles the brain..
Edit: I meant to write FtM above, but tranny bullshit addles the brain..
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2019
None, in the sense they mean. Many societies have had mechanisms to cope with certain breaches of rigid gender roles. Homosexuality for example. Or death of males in the community . So for example in a society where men were primary hunters, a woman could step into that role to feed her family if the men died. Such things were generally non reversible and used only on times of need.
what TRAs fail to mention is that every single example of these gender role breaches was because the society had strictly defined gender roles that occasionally either threatened tribe survival or couldn’t account for things like homosexuality. NONE of these societies pushed the idea that the person has changed sex, because all of them had a very good idea that man plus woman is needed for babies. All the cases are basically putting people in a third box (always a lesser, disliked one by the way) or allowing people to do the roles of the opposite sex socially so people didn’t starve.
Amber the Hedgehog
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
Or some simply had words to describe masculine women and/or femine men, you know like tomboy. Having such words wouldn’t mean they considered those a new genders or even new gender roles, just that those people are unusual but still common enough to have formed vocabulary around. Also having such words wouldn’t tell if the cultures considered gender none confirming people positive, negative or neutral, but most likely it would be at least little bit negative as gender roles have formed for reasons.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
In some cultures, if you took it up the butt they just straight up killed you. But they didn't understand penises and vaginas. Right. And they were all Albert Einstein, too.
Xiphias
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2019
This reminds me of that article where the Prime Minister of Samoa threw a fit about "this fa'fafine, this man" competing in the woman's category. And when asked what should be done, he suggested two new sport categories: "transgender and tomboy". That got a laugh out of me.
Btw "fa'fafine" means "in the manner of women". Samoans know where babies come from.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
Supposedly American Indians had some crap called Two Spirits but I always assumed that the troon apologists were misrepresenting it. Maybe a red skinned kiwi would know more.
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2015
Two spirit was a label given to man whores so it wouldn't be gay when all the other guys fucked them. Of course, to trannies this is a beautiful, progressive perspective and not at all homophobic.
LateNightMuffin
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2019
Toward an End to Appropriation of Indigenous “Two Spirit” People in Trans Politics: the Relationship Between Third Gender Roles and Patriarchy
When I say that transgenderism is culture bound, don’t get me wrong: I think every gender role and presentation is, in fact, dependent on culture. The entire idea of gender, the roles that a…
culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com
When I say that transgenderism is culture bound, don’t get me wrong: I think every gender role and presentation is, in fact, dependent on culture. The entire idea of gender, the roles that are developed and called “gender,” are based on the sex binary. That’s why almost always, when you see gender roles, even if there are more than two, you can bet money that it’s just a matter of reclassifying people who don’t fit into a culture’s otherwise rigidly defined sex roles.
Which brings us to the indigenous people of North America.
I have a special kind of rage for any white person who claims to identify as a “Two Spirit” person. It’s like wearing a hipster headdress: it proclaims loud and clear that you’re a white person who likes to appropriate American Indian culture while having little or nothing to do with the culture you’re appropriating.
The version of this that’s less enraging but more prevalent (think of it as the “dreamcatcher” of appropriation–common, misunderstood, and talked about in gross ways by all kinds of white people) is the white trans person who points to American Indian cultures as some kind of more accepting place for people with dysphoria/GID, because many of these cultures had a “third gender.” This represents a misunderstanding of what, precisely, being two-spirit meant culturally, economically, and socially for many two-spirit people, and also represents a very limiting, naive, “all these people look the same to me” view of American Indian nations.
Before we start: lumping all non-gender-conforming people in indigenous North America into a single “third gender” or “berdache” or “two-spirit” label is problematic. The cultures of pre-Columbian North America were incredibly distinct from each other, with significantly different gender roles to be observed even in Indian nations that were very close to each other.
What gets even more interesting when you look into the two-spirit phenomenon is where it doesn’t pop up–or doesn’t pop up with the same frequency.
The Iroquois Confederation historically had no two-spirit people in spite of keeping significantly more detailed documentation of the lives of its people than many other American Indian nations. For that matter, neither did the Apache, who treated two-spirit people respectfully and cordially when they met them but did not themselves have two-spirit people as part of their culture.
What would make the Iroquois and Apache different? It’s not a matter of genetics. That’d only be possible if there were no intermarriages between American Indian people from different nations, and that’s simply not true.
The Iroquois had one of the most politically egalitarian societies for men and women in the world, at the time when white folks set out to destroy them systematically. Women had significant amounts of political power, and the society was not simply matrilineal (which can sometimes still involve huge patriarchal gender role issues–hello, Orthodox Judaism!) but involved real equality of authority.
The Apache were famed for their skill in battle, which may mean you’ve never heard one of the most fascinating parts about their culture. Because war was a near-constant fact for Apache adults, while adults tended to have sex-segregated roles in society, children were actually given a very non-gendered upbringing. Girls were expected to know how to do “boy” things, and vice versa. Why? Think about the home front during World War II. It’s a good idea if all your people know the basics, just so that when there are war parties gone, or a sex imbalance after raids, you don’t lose all of the missing/dead people’s knowledge and skill base.
Neither of these societies–which have in some ways more progressive and egalitarian places for women and/or girls than contemporary societies–had two-spirit people. Was this because they were evil and repressive?
Let’s take the Lakota, one piece of the Sioux nation, as an alternate example. Please note that I’m speaking about the Sioux nations from the perspective of someone who has taken time to learn a great deal of a Sioux language and has studied these cultures both in historical and contemporary contexts. The Lakota have a longstanding tradition of two-spirit people, documented as far back as the written record goes. Among the Lakota, polygyny was accepted, and gender roles were extremely clearly established for boys and girls from an extremely early age.
The Lakota two spirit people are never born women. Almost all of them, historically, have been men. Claims of intersexed/hermaphroditic people from the 19th/early 20th centuries should ALWAYS be taken with a significant grain of salt, because of the trouble Europeans in this era had distinguishing between homosexuality and hermaphroditism (both male and female homosexuals were often thought to have hermaphroditic qualities–a historical fact we’ll talk about in another entry!).
Were no Lakota women “born this way” while men were? Let me postulate a different theory: that it’s men in power who impose gender roles, and that Lakota men’s patriarchal society had to have somewhere to put “men who don’t ‘act like’ men” because of male gender policing. Lakota people put two-spirit men in the part of the camp where women and children lived, which was generally not as well cared for and considered not as prestigious because of the patriarchal way that they lived.
While there were occasionally women in the Lakota and other Sioux nations that became part of war parties, they were not regarded as “male” in any way relating to their oppressed status at home. There was no need for the patriarchal Sioux to create a category for gender non-conforming women, nor to give them special status or specific supposed talents (Lakota and Dakota two-spirit people are said to be excellent namers of children and are thought to be able to see visions of the future). That’s something men do for men, because just by dint of having a penis, gender non-conforming men deserved to be able to have their own group and identity.
You see this in large numbers of patriarchal American Indian cultures: societies where there’s a firmly established “third” gender that men can elect to participate in (sometimes as older people, sometimes from an early age), while women’s gender roles are firmly entrenched and allow for little variance. What’s amazing is that many people are invested in the notion that third gender was egalitarian. Check out how careful this website is to show us both male and female two-spirit people–in fact, having more stories of female two-spirit people–while making no mention of the fact that female third gender individuals were incredibly rare compared to male ones.
Let’s take another example of a society that had a significantly different conception of gender and what it meant to be two-spirit. The Dene people of Alberta are a First Nations group that historically believed children could be reincarnations of deceased relatives. So far, so good, lots of cultures think that–hell, sometimes my own mother tells me I’m the reincarnation of my great grandfather. But in Dene culture, if your parents saw the spirit of a woman enter your mother’s body when she was pregnant, regardless of your birth sex you could be referred to as “my daughter” by the man who believed his daughter’s spirit had been reincarnated into you. You wouldn’t have to live as the sex of the person that you were thought to have been before, but would always be considered to in some way have a foot in each gender from your reincarnated past.
The Dene, it’s worth noting, forced women to go hungry at their husband’s discretion whenever the tribe was low on food. Women in this society were among the most oppressed women in all of indigenous North America. These supposedly progressive ways of viewing gender don’t come from cultures that actually treat women progressively. Not once.
It’s very strange to watch the contemporary trans movement attempt to incorporate American Indian cultural conceptions of gender-nonconformity, because it’s so clearly an attempt to shoehorn people of the past into contemporary cultural labels. In some third gender societies, two-spirit was simply a way to handle homosexuality within the group: homosexual men were considered not fully men, a halfway gender that wasn’t quite “normal.” In others, it was a way to handle intersexed people in societies with rigid sex binaries. In still others, it was for men who specifically preferred women’s work and roles, like weaving and cooking.
In almost none of these societies did two-spirit people born male identify *as women*. We have no documented cases (in spite of documentation of other activities and feelings of “berdaches”/two-spirits in history) of two-spirit men anguishing over an inability to be fully recognized as a woman or to have a woman’s body. They tended to identify as a different type of man, or something between masculine and feminine.
To systematically deprive historical two-spirit people of their own thoughts regarding their gender and what the historical record shows was their place in society–to misrepresent these people, who were often oppressed within their groups rather than lauded for their non-conformity, in spite of the all-too-common hagiographic contemporary notion of American Indian nations as places free from oppression–is to erase the nuance of real history in favor of a conception of history in which really, everyone’s just like you, you lucky 21st century son of a gun who has it all figured out.
The continuous use of two-spirit people as a way to show that transgenderism has existed in all societies–and the incredible lack of knowledge of the basics of indigenous North American cultures shown by many trans people who casually refer to there being transgender people in American Indian societies–is appropriative behavior. It is taking the parts of a society that you think you like, without studying them much or looking at their origins, and deciding that the culture they’re from must really be deep and would really get you. It’s de-contextualizing and de-humanizing, and erases differences between American Indian cultures as well as the fundamental ways those cultures historically were different from anything we have on the planet today.
What’s instead true is that American Indian nations that had more rigid gender roles and assigned women less power historically felt the need to strip male/female identities from non-conformers, while more egalitarian societies with less gender socialization lack two-spirit people because of, rather than in spite of, their lack of emphasis on sex-assigned gender roles.
–Deirdre Bell
Which brings us to the indigenous people of North America.
I have a special kind of rage for any white person who claims to identify as a “Two Spirit” person. It’s like wearing a hipster headdress: it proclaims loud and clear that you’re a white person who likes to appropriate American Indian culture while having little or nothing to do with the culture you’re appropriating.
The version of this that’s less enraging but more prevalent (think of it as the “dreamcatcher” of appropriation–common, misunderstood, and talked about in gross ways by all kinds of white people) is the white trans person who points to American Indian cultures as some kind of more accepting place for people with dysphoria/GID, because many of these cultures had a “third gender.” This represents a misunderstanding of what, precisely, being two-spirit meant culturally, economically, and socially for many two-spirit people, and also represents a very limiting, naive, “all these people look the same to me” view of American Indian nations.
Before we start: lumping all non-gender-conforming people in indigenous North America into a single “third gender” or “berdache” or “two-spirit” label is problematic. The cultures of pre-Columbian North America were incredibly distinct from each other, with significantly different gender roles to be observed even in Indian nations that were very close to each other.
What gets even more interesting when you look into the two-spirit phenomenon is where it doesn’t pop up–or doesn’t pop up with the same frequency.
The Iroquois Confederation historically had no two-spirit people in spite of keeping significantly more detailed documentation of the lives of its people than many other American Indian nations. For that matter, neither did the Apache, who treated two-spirit people respectfully and cordially when they met them but did not themselves have two-spirit people as part of their culture.
What would make the Iroquois and Apache different? It’s not a matter of genetics. That’d only be possible if there were no intermarriages between American Indian people from different nations, and that’s simply not true.
The Iroquois had one of the most politically egalitarian societies for men and women in the world, at the time when white folks set out to destroy them systematically. Women had significant amounts of political power, and the society was not simply matrilineal (which can sometimes still involve huge patriarchal gender role issues–hello, Orthodox Judaism!) but involved real equality of authority.
The Apache were famed for their skill in battle, which may mean you’ve never heard one of the most fascinating parts about their culture. Because war was a near-constant fact for Apache adults, while adults tended to have sex-segregated roles in society, children were actually given a very non-gendered upbringing. Girls were expected to know how to do “boy” things, and vice versa. Why? Think about the home front during World War II. It’s a good idea if all your people know the basics, just so that when there are war parties gone, or a sex imbalance after raids, you don’t lose all of the missing/dead people’s knowledge and skill base.
Neither of these societies–which have in some ways more progressive and egalitarian places for women and/or girls than contemporary societies–had two-spirit people. Was this because they were evil and repressive?
Let’s take the Lakota, one piece of the Sioux nation, as an alternate example. Please note that I’m speaking about the Sioux nations from the perspective of someone who has taken time to learn a great deal of a Sioux language and has studied these cultures both in historical and contemporary contexts. The Lakota have a longstanding tradition of two-spirit people, documented as far back as the written record goes. Among the Lakota, polygyny was accepted, and gender roles were extremely clearly established for boys and girls from an extremely early age.
The Lakota two spirit people are never born women. Almost all of them, historically, have been men. Claims of intersexed/hermaphroditic people from the 19th/early 20th centuries should ALWAYS be taken with a significant grain of salt, because of the trouble Europeans in this era had distinguishing between homosexuality and hermaphroditism (both male and female homosexuals were often thought to have hermaphroditic qualities–a historical fact we’ll talk about in another entry!).
Were no Lakota women “born this way” while men were? Let me postulate a different theory: that it’s men in power who impose gender roles, and that Lakota men’s patriarchal society had to have somewhere to put “men who don’t ‘act like’ men” because of male gender policing. Lakota people put two-spirit men in the part of the camp where women and children lived, which was generally not as well cared for and considered not as prestigious because of the patriarchal way that they lived.
While there were occasionally women in the Lakota and other Sioux nations that became part of war parties, they were not regarded as “male” in any way relating to their oppressed status at home. There was no need for the patriarchal Sioux to create a category for gender non-conforming women, nor to give them special status or specific supposed talents (Lakota and Dakota two-spirit people are said to be excellent namers of children and are thought to be able to see visions of the future). That’s something men do for men, because just by dint of having a penis, gender non-conforming men deserved to be able to have their own group and identity.
You see this in large numbers of patriarchal American Indian cultures: societies where there’s a firmly established “third” gender that men can elect to participate in (sometimes as older people, sometimes from an early age), while women’s gender roles are firmly entrenched and allow for little variance. What’s amazing is that many people are invested in the notion that third gender was egalitarian. Check out how careful this website is to show us both male and female two-spirit people–in fact, having more stories of female two-spirit people–while making no mention of the fact that female third gender individuals were incredibly rare compared to male ones.
Let’s take another example of a society that had a significantly different conception of gender and what it meant to be two-spirit. The Dene people of Alberta are a First Nations group that historically believed children could be reincarnations of deceased relatives. So far, so good, lots of cultures think that–hell, sometimes my own mother tells me I’m the reincarnation of my great grandfather. But in Dene culture, if your parents saw the spirit of a woman enter your mother’s body when she was pregnant, regardless of your birth sex you could be referred to as “my daughter” by the man who believed his daughter’s spirit had been reincarnated into you. You wouldn’t have to live as the sex of the person that you were thought to have been before, but would always be considered to in some way have a foot in each gender from your reincarnated past.
The Dene, it’s worth noting, forced women to go hungry at their husband’s discretion whenever the tribe was low on food. Women in this society were among the most oppressed women in all of indigenous North America. These supposedly progressive ways of viewing gender don’t come from cultures that actually treat women progressively. Not once.
It’s very strange to watch the contemporary trans movement attempt to incorporate American Indian cultural conceptions of gender-nonconformity, because it’s so clearly an attempt to shoehorn people of the past into contemporary cultural labels. In some third gender societies, two-spirit was simply a way to handle homosexuality within the group: homosexual men were considered not fully men, a halfway gender that wasn’t quite “normal.” In others, it was a way to handle intersexed people in societies with rigid sex binaries. In still others, it was for men who specifically preferred women’s work and roles, like weaving and cooking.
In almost none of these societies did two-spirit people born male identify *as women*. We have no documented cases (in spite of documentation of other activities and feelings of “berdaches”/two-spirits in history) of two-spirit men anguishing over an inability to be fully recognized as a woman or to have a woman’s body. They tended to identify as a different type of man, or something between masculine and feminine.
To systematically deprive historical two-spirit people of their own thoughts regarding their gender and what the historical record shows was their place in society–to misrepresent these people, who were often oppressed within their groups rather than lauded for their non-conformity, in spite of the all-too-common hagiographic contemporary notion of American Indian nations as places free from oppression–is to erase the nuance of real history in favor of a conception of history in which really, everyone’s just like you, you lucky 21st century son of a gun who has it all figured out.
The continuous use of two-spirit people as a way to show that transgenderism has existed in all societies–and the incredible lack of knowledge of the basics of indigenous North American cultures shown by many trans people who casually refer to there being transgender people in American Indian societies–is appropriative behavior. It is taking the parts of a society that you think you like, without studying them much or looking at their origins, and deciding that the culture they’re from must really be deep and would really get you. It’s de-contextualizing and de-humanizing, and erases differences between American Indian cultures as well as the fundamental ways those cultures historically were different from anything we have on the planet today.
What’s instead true is that American Indian nations that had more rigid gender roles and assigned women less power historically felt the need to strip male/female identities from non-conformers, while more egalitarian societies with less gender socialization lack two-spirit people because of, rather than in spite of, their lack of emphasis on sex-assigned gender roles.
–Deirdre Bell
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2016
There's also hijras in poo2loo land, the baklas in the fillipines, the khanits in Oman and the muxes in Mexico. I have no clue about how they're actually perceived in their countries, but I assume it's some variation of "gay dude in a dress". There's a bunch more listed here:
Gender-variant identities worldwide
nonbinary.wiki
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
TL;DR in ancient societies, manhood and womanhood were states of grace which could be attained (by boys and girls, respectively) and permanently lost (to magic rituals, rape, pre- or extramarital sex, faggotry, inappropriate attire or gear, castration, prostitution, slavery, military failure, monetary debt, lack of specific property, pregnancy outcomes). Binary manhood or womanhood as a human right which can't be lost is indeed a Western humanist concept.
Amber the Hedgehog
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
Also what I have understood about these “third genders” is many times they were a thing so that other people interacting with them wouldn’t loose their real man/woman card. These can be pretty funny at times. For example in viking society being gay wasn’t a great thing but a man not considered gay if just did the topping. Bottom guy was in position of a woman witch was wierd and gross but the top was just fucking like a man witch was fair enough even if his target of choice was an odd one.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2019
To be absolutely fair, it is the very essence of white bullshit. If all black troons died and no more were made, the bullshit would carry on. If all white troons died and no more were made, it’d be over and the black troons would just be on their corner trying to sell their asses like always. No more trans privilege activism. That is how you know it’s white bullshit. It’s white womens’ weird ass autistic husbands they never should've bred with and our porn-addled teen sons whose unmonitored internet access we should never have allowed who are the problem, and so we should be the ones cleaning this shit up. Black women have to clean up after their own males.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
It's more or less made up. First, there isn't some thing called "American Indians" that all believed the same thing, and second, it's about as real as Kwanzaa anyway. Some garbled cultural misappropriation with a side of troon shit, which is okay to do if you're a troon apparently.
Amber the Hedgehog
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2018
Yeah pretty much it. Some idiots thought thay were being cool and saving native cultures by coming up with new words to replace evil white people words. To quote Wikipedia in its infinite wisdom:
For more information here is a video of a gay guy explaining two spirit and a British guy making fun it.