Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

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Believe it's time to step back and take a look at what's going on. These are merely my observations and opinions, aimed primarily at my fellow Americans. Don't know enough about internal situations in any other country well enough to gave the best advice.

First, believe things is China are getting away from the Xi regime. Believe things are rather worse than have been told. Despite entreaties (demands) from the Xi regime, believe getting Chinese industrial production back up to speed will be very problematical. Too many places locked down, too much disruption of internal supplies and communications. Look for a shortage of items produced in China before long.

Second, this is starting to spread quickly. Korea has cases. Japan has cases, after totally bungling the quarantine of the cruise ship. Iran has cases, and probably more than might be thought. Believe India has cases, and should the virus get going there it could really be nasty.

Third, we're starting to see cases here. Believe we have a reasonable chance of keeping the pandemic under control here.

Looking back at history, there was a time when the USA was cut off from just about all imports from Asia. It is entirely possible that we will see a severe decline in imports from Asia - not just China, but Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and India.

Take a look around your house. Everyone has a lot of stuff made in Asia, everything from kitchen knicknacks to computers, TVs, and cars. And likely everyone has a lot of stuff, period. What would you do if imports from Asia were cut off or drastically reduced, say, for perhaps a year, worst case?

If the President is smart, and I believe he is, he already has people examining this contingency. Should things get bad enough, he could declare a state of unlimited national emergency. This would give him power to freeze stocks of Asian-made goods, set up ration boards, and the like. There will not be any choice. We will need to stretch our supplies of certain goods until we can set up our own production lines, develop substitutes, and/or the normal flow of goods resumes. And don't forget all the Asian-made parts that go into cars made here. With just-in-time inventory of parts, car manufacturers may need to cut production of certain models sooner than you think. This time, we don't have eight million troops overseas, but those troops will need supplies formerly sourced from Asia. And there could soon be shortages of certain drugs, clothing, shoes, and tires.

Suggest taking a look at what you have from Asia. Computer getting old? Consider getting a new one, same brand, same capability. TV getting old? Maybe a new one. Cell phone aging? Maybe a new one. Look at where your medicine is made. Even if it doesn't come from China, chances are some ingredients may come from there or somewhere else in Asia. I know prescription drugs made in India, Croatia, Canada, and Israel are sold here. Can easily see triage for patients using certain medications in very short supply. If possible, look at getting extra supplies of at least the most important prescription drugs you use.

On a side note, we won't starve. We produce plenty of food. But there may be shortages of some foods from Asia, canned and frozen. Could see rationing of certain foods. Could well see shortages of certain beers and liquors from Asia. Might be time to stock up some. "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without."

Energy-wise, we should be okay. We import no coal or natural gas. If imports of oil are disrupted we'll get by with what we produce - thank God for fracking. Gasoline and oil could be rationed. Don't see electricity being rationed, or any blackouts.

Bottom line: Keep paying attention to the news, what is said and what is not said. Don't take counsel of your fears. Look at what you have and consider getting replacements now, before stocks are frozen. Forewarned is forearmed. Hope none of this comes to pass but anything can happen. Shit's getting real, and we need to be real about it.


Here's something from Victor Davis Hanson. He's preaching to the choir here, but still worth a read.


China's Government Is Like Something Out of '1984'

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...ng_out_of_1984_142444.html#comments-container

By Victor Davis Hanson February 20, 2020

The Chinese communist government increasingly poses an existential threat not just to its own 1.4 billion citizens but to the world at large.

China is currently in a dangerously chaotic state. And why not, when a premodern authoritarian society leaps wildly into the brave new world of high-tech science in a single generation?

The Chinese technological revolution is overseen by an Orwellian dictatorship. Predictably, the Chinese Communist Party has not developed the social, political or cultural infrastructure to ensure that its sophisticated industrial and biological research does not go rogue and become destructive to itself and to the billions of people who are on the importing end of Chinese products and protocols.

Central party officials run the government, military, media and universities collectively in a manner reminiscent of the science-fiction Borg organism of "Star Trek," which was a horde of robot-like entities all under the control of a central mind.

Thirty years ago, American pundits began gushing over China's sudden leap from horse-drawn power to solar, wind and nuclear energy. The Chinese communist government wowed Westerners. It created from nothing high-speed rail, solar farms, shiny new airports and gleaming new high-density apartment buildings.

Western-trained Chinese scientists soon were conducting sophisticated medical and scientific research. And they often did so rapidly, without the prying regulators, nosy elected officials and bothersome citizen lawsuits that often burden American and European scientists.

To make China instantly rich and modern, the communist hierarchy -- the same government that once caused the deaths of some 60 million innocents under Mao Zedong -- ignored property rights. It crushed individual freedom. It embraced secrecy and bulldozed over any who stood in its way.

In much the same manner that silly American pundits once praised Benito Mussolini's fascist efforts to modernize Depression-era Italy, many naifs in the West praised China only because they wished that their own countries could recalibrate so quickly and efficiently -- especially in service to green agendas.

But the world is learning that China does not just move mountains for new dams or bulldoze ancient neighborhoods that stand in the path of high-speed rail. It also hid the outbreak and the mysterious origins of the deadly coronavirus from its own people and the rest of the planet as well -- a more dangerous replay of its earlier effort to mask the spread of the SARS virus. The result was that thousands of unknowing carriers spread the viral plague while the government covered up its epidemic proportions.


China, of course, does not wish to have either its products or citizens quarantined from other countries. But the Chinese government will not allow foreign scientists to enter its country to collaborate on containing the coronavirus and developing a vaccine.

No wonder internet conspiracies speculate that the virus was either a rogue product of the Chinese military's bioengineering weapons lab or originated from bats, snakes or pangolins and the open-air markets where they are sold as food.

It is hard to believe that in 2020, the world's largest and second-wealthiest county, which boasts of high-tech consumer products and gleaming cities, has imprisoned in "re-education camps" more than 1 million Uighur Muslims in the manner that Hitler, Stalin and Mao once relocated "undesirable" populations.

China seems confident that it will soon rule the world, given its huge population, massive trade surpluses, vast cash reserves and industries that produce so many of the world's electronic devices, pharmaceuticals and consumer goods.
For a year, the Chinese government has battled massive street demonstrations for democracy in Hong Kong. Beijing cynically assumes that Western nations don't care. They are expected to drop their characteristic human rights advocacy because of how profitable their investments inside China have proven.

Beijing was right. Few Western companies complain that Chinese society is surveilled, regulated and controlled in a nightmarish fashion that George Orwell once predicted in his dystopian novel "1984."

All of these recent scandals should remind the world that China got rich by warping trade and stealing technology in much the same way that it deals with epidemics and dissidents. That is, by simply ignoring legitimate criticism and crushing anyone in its way.

If the Chinese communist Borg is willing to put millions of its own citizens at risk of infection and death, why would it care about foreigners' complaints that China is getting rich and powerful by breaking international trade rules?

The truth about President Trump's decision to call China to account over its systematic abuse of international trade norms is not that Trump's policy is reckless or ill-considered. It's that at this late date, the reckoning might prove too little, too late.

Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University. His latest book is The Savior Generals from BloomsburyBooks. You can reach him by e-mailing author@victorhanson.com.




It's possible certain goods could be manufactured domestically quickly. Take medicine for example. Puerto Rico has drug companies that were lured by favorable tax rates and incentives. It wouldn't be hard for them to expand there or in the continental US. The same goes for other goods made in Mexico/Canada. If it becomes an issue I doubt Trump wouldn't take advantage to encourage domestic manufacturing. It would be an interesting development politically.
 
Coronavirus, a 38 yo Italian infected and hospitalized in serious conditions. He dined with a friend come back from China.

Source in Italian:

Relevant infos:
- resulted positive to the test after going to the hospital yesterday evening with an already extreme respiratory failure;
- his conditions are reported to be 'very serious', currently in intensive care unit and to be moved to one of the main hospitals in Milan;
- all those who came in contact with him are at the moment being tested;
- they are also trying to reconstruct his movements;
- never been to China, he dined with a friend come back from there (exact location unknown) at the end of January;
- first symptoms appeared after a 16-18 days latent period;

On another topic:
The Chinese couple in Rome are still in ICU after, what? Three weeks hospitalized, two in ICU. The man the past week reported only minimal improvements.

I said at the beginning that the Chinese tourists would have been an interesting case, as they would have shown how the Coronavirus fares in a first-world hospital which can provide undivided attention and resources to the case. Until now the answer seems to be: it takes its sweet sweet time to run its course.
Now the Italian is a good comparison, as he can hopefully abscertain whether Chinese are truly genetically prone to contract the most violent form of it (or anyway suffer the most for it).
On the other hand there have already been very mild cases which were found, treated and made to recover in the same three weeks the Chinese spent in hospital. The infection truly seems to either be very mild or very serious.

I will probably edit the post later in the morning, as a conference is scheduled to report on the new case, if new infos are made available.


EDIT:
The friend back from China is being quarantined and tested in Milan, he's a manager spending most of the year in China. He came back in Italy on the 20th of January and always remained in good health, apart from very mild flu-like symptoms on the 10th of February (possibly unrelated to the WuFlu). At the moment is not a given that he truly is the patient zero.
The emergency department the infected went to yesterday evening has been closed and medical personnel is being tested, same goes for all the civilians who went there around the same time of/later than the sick guy.
 
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If a civil war broke out in the states, the Armed Forces would splinter almost instantly.
This is a taboo topic among servicemen that has become more common over the past four years or so. I've had that talk with a few airmen while breaking down how and why civil war could start more easily in the US, more easily than people seem to want to think. The general consensus among decent servicemen as far as I know is that most enlistees would give their CoC acute lead poisoning before they'd commit actual treason against our people, even at the risk of being put on trial for 'legal treason'. We also know that a lot of officers and enlisted wouldn't hesitate to take the coward's way out so that no matter what happens in the end, if they're still standing, they can put their palms out and say "I was just following orders". The cowards would also not be so willing to side against who they perceive to hold all of the weapons and supplies, or just pick whichever team has the most players at the time. A modern American Civil War started over governmental tyranny would be a special kind of mess the likes of which no person has ever seen.
 
Well, knowing all the nice videos coming out of China on how they are "containing" this shit, how they are treating their own citizens, this statement isn't scary at all :

"Coronavirus latest: China vows to ‘liquidate’ virus by end of March"


"Chinese ambassador to Russia says Covid-19, which has claimed more than 2,200 lives, will be eradicated in a month’s time as his country claims it will ‘win a complete victory’"

Final Solution vibes, anyone ?
 
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This just freezes the cockles:
B..b...but the media have been saying it just kills eighty year olds, why would they underplay the severity of the virus like that? Their supposed to be bastions of truth that allow the common man to gain a clear and totally not obscure and manipulated understanding of the world. Oh well I guess I still believe them when they say that China has the situation under control and that the numbers their reporting are the true and honest statistics, and that the virus is actually still in decline and will soon disappear completely, thus truly signaling that glorious Asian century they've been prophesying for the past ten years and more.
 
Not sure if this is real or not since this is the Daily Star over in the UK. But....


Hope I'm not late to the party, but as I was skimming I saw something potentially interesting:

"If a single new case is found (after Wednesday), the district leaders will be held responsible."

If reports are decreasing/more inconsistent than usual, it might be because district leaders don't want to get fucked by the CCP any more then they have been. Maybe they're shooting the messenger so they don't have even more bad news to report to Xi, maybe they're leaving districts to die before they swoop in as saviors, or maybe they're just exceptional. Hard to tell these days.


In other news, Global Times tweeting about what seems to be reinfection:
Isn't GT a CCP outlet? The fact that they're tweeting about this is another nail on just how much worse things are in China.
 
Hotel floors are also filthier and barely less cum-stained than the sheets, so I hope you've been wearing socks the whole time @Niggaplease. Corona-chan in the air and athlete's foot fungus on the floor. Gotta love it :story:
Well let's see the og doctor who was told to go pussed out like a bitch. I'm getting a pay raise. and I do wear socks. like literally like the 5th person asked. the other 4 either refused or magically used their pto time.
 
Global Times is a CCP joint
I could use a joint right now..
#yoloswag4204jesus
edit: oh wait I forgot I'm gay so I vape my thc. #vapenationnigga.
But seriously I'm stuck with no thc, my anxiety medication refill doesn't come in until I'm back in America. I'm stuff vaping 0mg creme brulee Ejuice and drinking Irish coffee with a change out of cran vodka. Point is I'm on edge.
 
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Now the Italian is a good comparison, as he can hopefully abscertain whether Chinese are truly genetically prone to contract the most violent form of it (or anyway suffer the most for it).
It will be interesting. The first case reports implied there was no cytokine storm associated with the progression of the disease. Later reports seem to imply there is So - as well as a possible genetic predisposition of the Chinese via ACEII receptor number there is also the predisposition to cytokine storm to think about. That varies between individuals and a number of genes are associated with it. Treatment protocols have improved in recent years but it’s still a big killer in severe infections like these. I’m not aware of any studies done in geographic associations of predisposing genes, but ill look.
 
A followup of my previous post:


A hotbed of 6 infected in northern Italy caused by a single person returned from China in January

Sources in Italian:


As usual, bullet list of the relevant infos:
- The wife of the man first resulted positive to the Coronavirus and one of his friends are also infected. The woman is 8 month pregnant. Both of them are in better shape than the guy. The poor bastard has it bad enough that at the moment he cannot be transferred to a bigger hospital.
- the infos at the moment are unclear, but it seems to me that this third infected is the same guy who first came back from China and suffered only minor flu-like symptoms. Nevermind, they are two different persons, with the possible patient zero having a first negative test to the Coronavirus. Maybe he healed on his own in the meantime.
- three other persons who came in contact with him also tested positive to the virus.
- a total of five of the six infected are in 'serious conditions'. Most of them exhibit pneumonia-like symptoms.
- wife did not participate in further spread of the virus since she has been already been in maternity leave for some time, mostly staying at home.
- everyone known to have been in contact with the infected (60 persons as to now) must self-quarantine themselves. The number will grow as the guy in ICU in the last couple of weeks went regularly to work, took part to several country marathons and to football games.
- the citizens of his town and a couple nearby have been invited to stay home as much as possible (for a total of 35500 men).
- people with symptoms are invited not to go to hospitals, emergency departments or to their family doctor, but to call the 112 (our emergency number) and self-quarantine until further instructions.
- the Prime Minister invited everyone not to panic but at the same time to follow what authorities say and trust what scientists and doctors say (this may be related to a recent resurgency of antivaxx assholes in northern Italy).
- quarantine is now mandatory for everyone returning from any region of China.

The good news:
- the first Italian who got the Flu after one day in Wuhan has officially recovered;
- the 56 persons evacuated with a charter flight from Wuhan have been released after the mandatory quarantine period and repeatedly negative tests.

ETA: further infos as the conference of the Health Minister is ongoing, and the following answer:

It will be interesting [...]

Yes, especially since this Italian guy is in serious conditions, just like the Chinese, as opposed to most of other cases affecting Europeans, where either the symptoms were very mild (I am thinking in particular at the first German infected who experienced bronchitis-like symptoms for a couple of day, went back to work as he was fine and was reported positive to the virus only because they tested everyone who got in contact with the Chinese brat who upon her return in China could no longer hide her own symptoms) or anyway never so severe to require ICU, mechanical ventilation and so on... so he can work as a proper, although limited, reference case.
 
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I'm curious why the number of cases petered in off in China. We all know it's not because those shit gremlins got things under control, so what changed?

I imagine it's not because there are less cases, in fact the opposite might be true. But people are on lockdown everywhere, so only severe cases will be transported to hospitals and actually be tested.

I have no idea if anyone else has brought this up..

Serious question:

I haven't been keeping up with this on a daily basis, but every time I hear a report it seems the number of new cases and deaths seem to double. Is this correct, or is my inner Alex Jones voice fucking with me?

They do not really double. Few hundred or few thousand new cases every day wich are reported. I keep up with the official JHU-map daily and they show little to no increase. Slowly and steadily the case numbers are creeping up. This seems to be very far from the truth. I don't believe the calming signals one bit.
 
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A followup of my previous post:


A hotbed of 6 infected in northern Italy caused by a single person returned from China in January

Sources in Italian:


As usual, bullet list of the relevant infos:
- The wife of the man first resulted positive to the Coronavirus and one of his friends are also infected. The woman is 8 month pregnant. Both of them are in better shape than the guy. The poor bastard has it bad enough that at the moment he cannot be transferred to a bigger hospital.
- the infos at the moment are unclear, but it seems to me that this third infected is the same guy who first came back from China and suffered only minor flu-like symptoms. Nevermind, they are two different persons, with the possible patient zero having a first negative test to the Coronavirus. Maybe he healed on his own in the meantime.
- three other persons who came in contact with him also tested positive to the virus.
- a total of five of the six infected are in 'serious conditions'. Most of them exhibit pneumonia-like symptoms.
- wife did not participate in further spread of the virus since she has been already been in maternity leave for some time, mostly staying at home.
- everyone known to have been in contact with the infected (60 persons as to now) must self-quarantine themselves. The number will grow as the guy in ICU in the last couple of weeks went regularly to work, took part to several country marathons and to football games.
- the citizens of his town and a couple nearby have been invited to stay home as much as possible (for a total of 35500 men).
- people with symptoms are invited not to go to hospitals, emergency departments or to their family doctor, but to call the 112 (our emergency number) and self-quarantine until further instructions.
- the Prime Minister invited everyone not to panic but at the same time to follow what authorities say and trust what scientists and doctors say (this may be related to a recent resurgency of antivaxx assholes in northern Italy).
- quarantine is now mandatory for everyone returning from any region of China.

The good news:
- the first Italian who got the Flu after one day in Wuhan has officially recovered;
- the 56 persons evacuated with a charter flight from Wuhan have been released after the mandatory quarantine period and repeatedly negative tests.

ETA: further infos as the conference of the Health Minister is ongoing, and the following answer:



Yes, especially since this Italian guy is in serious conditions, just like the Chinese, as opposed to most of other cases affecting Europeans, where either the symptoms were very mild (I am thinking in particular at the first German infected who experienced bronchitis-like symptoms for a couple of day, went back to work as he was fine and was reported positive to the virus only because they tested everyone who got in contact with the Chinese brat who upon her return in China could no longer hide her own symptoms) or anyway never so severe to require ICU, mechanical ventilation and so on... so he can work as a proper, although limited, reference case.
if it's happening in Milan it's gonna spread like wildfire simply because of how rural nothern italy is. As beautiful it is in order to get to a good hospital your looking at least 3 hours drive through the country side. Unlike Venice or Rome it's not really touristy in the sense you get all modern conviences. on the bright side it may be self contained.
if you live in Europe best bet is either Romania because of how isolated it is or Sardinia because it's freaking island. I think I may after this take the rest of my pto and explore eastern Europe.
Basically if you want to flee find a very isolated spot and go there and don't tell anyone in person where you going.
oh and pro tip: don't fucking go to any desserts if you have no fucking clue on how to survive in it. Same for Canada in fact if this gets major pandemic level every idiot and their mother will try to flee for the great wilderness of Canada. you'll only last a few months come winter if your not a cannibal you'll be food for others. Basically Canada is the absolute russia when it comes to survival unless you know what your doing have the actual resources to sustain yourself until your established go for far easier means.
 
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This is a taboo topic among servicemen that has become more common over the past four years or so. I've had that talk with a few airmen while breaking down how and why civil war could start more easily in the US, more easily than people seem to want to think. The general consensus among decent servicemen as far as I know is that most enlistees would give their CoC acute lead poisoning before they'd commit actual treason against our people, even at the risk of being put on trial for 'legal treason'. We also know that a lot of officers and enlisted wouldn't hesitate to take the coward's way out so that no matter what happens in the end, if they're still standing, they can put their palms out and say "I was just following orders". The cowards would also not be so willing to side against who they perceive to hold all of the weapons and supplies, or just pick whichever team has the most players at the time. A modern American Civil War started over governmental tyranny would be a special kind of mess the likes of which no person has ever seen.
There's difference between Shanequa in Finance at the Chairforce and Johnny the grunt in the 3rdID. My bet is Johnny won't want to wage war on his fellow Americans but Shanequa would be too confused to do anything else other than what she's told to do by whoever has a gun pointed at her head. Officers are a mixed bunch since they tend to be less vocal about their beliefs but they understand the "just following orders" line isn't going to excuse mowing down civilians better than most. They'd just leave or join whatever side they feel ideologically compelled to align with.

It's taboo to go there but it's a topic that's discussed, especially after all the pointless excursions into these ME these past 20 years.
 
There's difference between Shanequa in Finance at the Chairforce and Johnny the grunt in the 3rdID. My bet is Johnny won't want to wage war on his fellow Americans but Shanequa would be too confused to do anything else other than what she's told to do by whoever has a gun pointed at her head. Officers are a mixed bunch since they tend to be less vocal about their beliefs but they understand the "just following orders" line isn't going to excuse mowing down civilians better than most. They'd just leave or join whatever side they feel ideologically compelled to align with.

It's taboo to go there but it's a topic that's discussed, especially after all the pointless excursions into these ME these past 20 years.

It would really boil down to who is giving the orders and why. Its hard to say how the Army would go because every situation that could potentially trigger such a scenario would be unique unto itself. IMO though the default would be to obey the chain of command as long as the chain of command remained loyal to the duly elected leadership. Mainly, the President. So any sort of small scale secessionist movement and so on would get put down pretty fast if the President says "stop them".

What could cause some shit though would be a disputed election, like with the bullshit electoral college interstate compact. Now that is a recipe for some shit. Especially if an electoral college majority gets overturned by a narrow popular vote win courtesy of California like what we had in 2016. You could conceivably see half the States refuse to accept the authority of the "winner". Another thing that could cause some shit is a "palace coup", where a sitting President is deposed for being "mentally incompetent" under the 25th amendment, or a double impeachment of both the President and the Vice President. Basically anything that could cause the authority of the chain of command to come into dispute.
 
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