Wuhan Coronavirus: Megathread - Got too big

[neverendingmidi]

Why is vaccine making this expensive? In fact why is western medicine this expensive?

I am not trying to be a commie. Are the machines involved made of very rare elements?
Do the virus particles in it need to be wrecked each individually by precision chemicals under a constant electron microscope watch?

Are the personnel needed both require numbers AND rare talents? Like nuke making? Like you nees 2 digit number of geniouses for it?

Because it literally takes a fuckton of time by trained and experienced people. Who kind of want to be paid for that time and experience. Not to mention it does require expensive equipment, lab supplies, etc. And for every “success” there are about 1000 failures. This isn’t fucking legos ffs.

 

[Dom Cruise]

America hasn't lost it's fascination with the end of the world hysteria. Like how everyone thought the Mayan Calendar predicted the world was ending in 2012 or something.

And yet in a weird way 2012 kinda was the end of the world as we knew it and the start of the modern "woke" world.

I think that is something to keep in mind when talking about this, it's one thing if you're talking a full on apocalyptic scenario where people have to kill each other over food, it's another to imagine a world that is just kind of shitty, frustrating and lame, which has arguably been the world since the Great Recession.

It may not be the end of the world but I do worry about this pandemic fucking over the global economy just enough to make life in the 21st century even shittier than it has been.

 

[Otterly]

Why is vaccine making this expensive? In fact why is western medicine this expensive?

There are two reasons:
1. Discovering new drugs costs terrifying amounts of money
2. Everyone wants to make vast profits

the new stuff is expensive because only 1 in 10 or so of new drug applications succeeds and it can easily cost a billion dollars to get a drug from discovery to market. Once it’s patented you have 15 years or so to make bank, and that includes the time for trials (which can easily last five years.) the need for return in investment there is obvious.

point 2 is more the stupid inefficiencies and massive markups that happen. Ten quid for a bottle on iodine scrub that costs pennies. The same thing happens in military acquisition, I’m told. If you have the layer of insurance companies making profits like the USA, that profit comes from patients. In single payer systems like the Uk it comes from massive inefficiency, stupid, stupid commissioning decisions and no leverage - we have no leverage to force companies to give us drugs cheap. The only way you could is by saying to hell with patent law and creating a nationalised generics industry, but that of course means you’re on a road for trouble in terms of freedom and IP protection.
Some drugs are expensive as well because they’re hard to make, but most can be made reasonably cheaply, it’s the need for IP protection, profits at every levels and the bloated industry that surrounds it all.
We should not be leaving stuff like vaccines for pandemics and new antibiotics to single companies - there should be global initiatives to manage these for the good of the Earth (apologies for sounding a bit like a commie there, but it’s true...)

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Why is vaccine making this expensive? In fact why is western medicine this expensive?

Because it has to be done by Highly trained, highly experienced people in the fastest possible amount of time and has a high failure rate. For every successful Vaccine made there are many that aren't and that cash has to come from somewhere.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

Styx posted this recent vlog about Corona-chan.

Some Youtubers posted some comments who gived me some chuckles.

JAYLXXXI
I called off work due to the Budweiser Virus.

Payton Wallace
perhaps RBG contracted Corona, haven't seen her in a while.

NWBackcountry
"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking..." Lloyd Bridges, Airplane.

 

[Aqua Panda]

So the "cases imported from Italy" bit is interesting. We've already started to see higher Chinese officials start to claim that they think the virus came from outside China as a way to save face. Which ties into sentiment from the general Chinese populace that the USA is responsible for it.

Don't be suprised if China tries to place all blame on some other source and then tries to go do something stupid for revenge purposes. Keep a close eye on the South China Sea.

 

[martin123]

Don't worry guys, this virus only kills people who are already unhealthy and sick, so only about 95% of America's population is at risk.

 

[Super-Chevy454]

Don't worry guys, this virus only kills people who are already unhealthy and sick, so only about 95% of America's population is at risk.

I guess Al Sharpton will scream racism if the bigger part of that 95% of America's population is black.

 

[Not Really Here]

There are two reasons:
1. Discovering new drugs costs terrifying amounts of money
2. Everyone wants to make vast profits

the new stuff is expensive because only 1 in 10 or so of new drug applications succeeds and it can easily cost a billion dollars to get a drug from discovery to market. Once it’s patented you have 15 years or so to make bank, and that includes the time for trials (which can easily last five years.) the need for return in investment there is obvious.

point 2 is more the stupid inefficiencies and massive markups that happen. Ten quid for a bottle on iodine scrub that costs pennies. The same thing happens in military acquisition, I’m told. If you have the layer of insurance companies making profits like the USA, that profit comes from patients. In single payer systems like the Uk it comes from massive inefficiency, stupid, stupid commissioning decisions and no leverage - we have no leverage to force companies to give us drugs cheap. The only way you could is by saying to hell with patent law and creating a nationalised generics industry, but that of course means you’re on a road for trouble in terms of freedom and IP protection.
Some drugs are expensive as well because they’re hard to make, but most can be made reasonably cheaply, it’s the need for IP protection, profits at every levels and the bloated industry that surrounds it all.
We should not be leaving stuff like vaccines for pandemics and new antibiotics to single companies - there should be global initiatives to manage these for the good of the Earth (apologies for sounding a bit like a commie there, but it’s true...)

Add
3) Stockpiling settlement money for people who win class action lawsuits against you for the shit you put on the side effect warning label.
4) Very limited amount of time before China rips off your patent and selling an identical 'generic' and even if they don't patent lengths are shortened for drugs.

TL;DR Costs a shitload of money and you have a limited time to get that money back.

 

[Shield Breaker]

I've a direct source of information from and in Iran.

I can tell you with certainty it is a full epidemic there, and nothing is under control. They are boarded in. A relative has been taken away for care and they have no information on their status at all - aren't allowed to see them and aren't allowed to ask.

And yet our friendly, neighborhood taliban man is posting about bears and dog food. Very strange.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Don't worry guys, this virus only kills people who are already unhealthy and sick, so only about 95% of America's population is at risk.

Burgers kill viruses just like vodka kills radiation, retard.

 

[Hatoful Dandy]

Over here where I live, it's difficult to find hand sanitizers (what few there remain on shelves are half empty bottles that some people just decided to help themselves to in store) yet hand wash and disinfectant are plentiful because rinsing with water is just extra work for most. Listerine has also been sold in packs as an alternative.

Masks are flat out hard to come by as even stores that sell respirator masks to automotive workshops were among the first to run out within 2-3 days. At least some pharmacies are distributing the surgical masks free because of the price gouging going on.

 

[Apathy is my superpower]

Short report from Austria:

I went shopping yesterday. Store was fully stocked except for half empty shelves (flour, pasta, oats etc). Lots of canned goods are on sale now. Disinfectant seems to be out of stock nearly everywhere. Pharmacies are now mixing their own stuff as production can't keep up.

At my company: today we started to get lots of mails from business partners who are cancelling meetings due to travel bans and lots of big conferences are also cancelled/postponed.

My boss doesn't give a shit and will travel to Northern Italy this week and the UK next week.

New cases are also popping up, including a woman from Vienna who worked for the 72-year old lawyer, who is in critical condition (we still don't know where he contracted the virus).

This woman does not have any symptoms (not even cough, sore throat - nothing). She started her apprenticeship at court on Monday, got her test results Monday evening and now everyone has to be tested and trials are postponed.

Coronavirus: 21 Fälle in Österreich bestätigt

In Österreich sind mit Stand Dienstagvormittag 21 bestätigte Infektionen mit dem neuen Coronavirus aufgetreten. Das gab Gesundheitsminister Rudolf Anschober (Grüne) bei einer kurzfristig einberufenen Pressekonferenz in Wien bekannt. Zwei der Fälle wurden aus Wien bekannt, ein weiterer betraf...

orf.at

 

[Overly Serious]

The problem with all the conspiracy theory stuff is that the opponents say that our governments wouldn't lie to us and the theorists claim that they are. But whilst of course of governments would lie to us (they just wouldn't call it lying), that doesn't mean they are.

Here's what I think in my ignorance: By this point we should have a reasonably good idea of both how contagious it is and how dangerous. If you know both those things and it's not really any more dangerous and maybe even less dangerous than an annual flu, I would expect that sort of information to be put about and for fewer costly actions on behalf of our (Western) governments.

So my logic is that either (a) it's harder to work out its contagiousness / dangerousness than a lay person like me thinks; (b) our governments are aware it's not that bad but are afraid of looking like they're not doing anything or being blamed for it if they underestimate things and are over-reacting despite knowing it's not that big a deal; or (c) Corona-chan really is Bad News and they're downplaying it to keep people and the markets calm.

Someone here may be able to tell me if (a) is the case. It just seems that with a couple of months of this now we should have a clear idea of what the disease is actually like than we seem to have been given. If it's not (a) then I'm concerned it's (c) because you would think governments would be putting about clearer information if that information would reassure people.

Not an expert - I am intelligent but ignorant: this is all just hypothesis.

 

[Male Idiot]

There are two reasons:
1. Discovering new drugs costs terrifying amounts of money
2. Everyone wants to make vast profits

the new stuff is expensive because only 1 in 10 or so of new drug applications succeeds and it can easily cost a billion dollars to get a drug from discovery to market. Once it’s patented you have 15 years or so to make bank, and that includes the time for trials (which can easily last five years.) the need for return in investment there is obvious.

point 2 is more the stupid inefficiencies and massive markups that happen. Ten quid for a bottle on iodine scrub that costs pennies. The same thing happens in military acquisition, I’m told. If you have the layer of insurance companies making profits like the USA, that profit comes from patients. In single payer systems like the Uk it comes from massive inefficiency, stupid, stupid commissioning decisions and no leverage - we have no leverage to force companies to give us drugs cheap. The only way you could is by saying to hell with patent law and creating a nationalised generics industry, but that of course means you’re on a road for trouble in terms of freedom and IP protection.
Some drugs are expensive as well because they’re hard to make, but most can be made reasonably cheaply, it’s the need for IP protection, profits at every levels and the bloated industry that surrounds it all.
We should not be leaving stuff like vaccines for pandemics and new antibiotics to single companies - there should be global initiatives to manage these for the good of the Earth (apologies for sounding a bit like a commie there, but it’s true...)

Thanks for the reply. Global initiatives tend to go to shit though, think of WHO.

But perhaps the goverments should invest in their own pharma companies. That way neither the private nor government sector would have a monopoly. Eating half of the cake and keeping half.

Also chemicals should not be patentable. Imagine like if Coca cola could make Pepsi stop making cola. Or a company could trademark bread, hand sanitizer, etc...
The companies have a right to their secrets, but honestly I think stuff like healthcare, weapons industry and general needed for society to work stuff should have at least some government presence.

We managed it well enough in the early 20th century with the state, pre communism. Even communism was not -worse- than the current model, both modern and commie health care is shit.


It is comforting though. In case of a truly big epidemic, the goverment can take control. It is just economic issue, not a material one.

 

[cruisecontrol4cool]

Don't be suprised if China tries to place all blame on some other source and then tries to go do something stupid for revenge purposes. Keep a close eye on the South China Sea.

They were doing some shit near Australia a day or so ago.
Chinese research vessel Xiang Yang Hong 01 tracked in waters near Christmas Island off Western Australia (Archive)

Christmas Island's also where the Wuhan evacuees were initially placed for quarantine.

 

[Male Idiot]

They were doing some shit near Australia a day or so ago.
Chinese research vessel Xiang Yang Hong 01 tracked in waters near Christmas Island off Western Australia (Archive)
View attachment 1171002
Christmas Island's also where the Wuhan evacuees were initially placed for quarantine.

They are most likely are just looking for new endangeres species to eat and fish to extinction, the belowed little yellow rascals.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

The problem with all the conspiracy theory stuff is that the opponents say that our governments wouldn't lie to us and the theorists claim that they are. But whilst of course of governments would lie to us (they just wouldn't call it lying), that doesn't mean they are.

Here's what I think in my ignorance: By this point we should have a reasonably good idea of both how contagious it is and how dangerous. If you know both those things and it's not really any more dangerous and maybe even less dangerous than an annual flu, I would expect that sort of information to be put about and for fewer costly actions on behalf of our (Western) governments.

So my logic is that either (a) it's harder to work out its contagiousness / dangerousness than a lay person like me thinks; (b) our governments are aware it's not that bad but are afraid of looking like they're not doing anything or being blamed for it if they underestimate things and are over-reacting despite knowing it's not that big a deal; or (c) Corona-chan really is Bad News and they're downplaying it to keep people and the markets calm.

Someone here may be able to tell me if (a) is the case. It just seems that with a couple of months of this now we should have a clear idea of what the disease is actually like than we seem to have been given. If it's not (a) then I'm concerned it's (c) because you would think governments would be putting about clearer information if that information would reassure people.

Not an expert - I am intelligent but ignorant: this is all just hypothesis.

Given you can carry the virus and be completely asymptomatic I'm gonna say it's (a).

 

[DewsLit]

Cruise ship in Norway awaits virus test on 2 passengers
Archive

Spoiler: Article

A German cruise ship with 1,200 passengers is moored in southern Norway waiting for the test results of two passengers who had been on land to be tested for the new coronavirus, officials said Tuesday.

The town of Haugesund, 110 kilometers (70 miles) south of Bergen, Norway’s second largest city, was alerted Monday by the ship’s agent that two passengers on the Aida Aura had been in contact with a third person a week ago who tested positive for the virus. That person was not on the ship.

The 202-meter (663-foot) long and 28-meter (92-foot) Aida Aura is operated by the German cruise line AIDA Cruises.


After visiting the ship, a doctor with the municipality of Haugesund said none of the passengers showed symptoms of having the COVID-19 illness.


"The guests were contacted by health authorities in Germany as part of a routine investigation into a medical situation. All guests on board have already been informed about this. All passengers remain on board, visits on land aren't taking place,” the cruise company said in a statement.


Both cruise ship passengers were tested on land and the results were expected later Tuesday.

Norway’s coastline is a popular destination for cruise ships because of its breath-taking landscapes and fjords.

 

[Male Idiot]

The governments are keeping a lid on it like China for most.

There are a few factors we need to know:
- How virulent is it?
- How deadly is it?
- Are any of its "hacks" true? Like can it spread by aerosolisation, reinfect, hide in other tissue or live off bacteria, cause cyto immune stuff bogaloo and all that.

So basically :
- Is China just that bad with health care or do we miss something?
- Is China just being paranoid in halting their precious economy for a nothingburger?
-Would China be craven enough to lie to the world massively and endanger millions to save face?